Tormek and retouch

[Michael Rutman]

I have the T-4 and I can get a decent edge. Not the amazing it looks at paper and the paper just falls apart in fear, but decent. About the same as I get with my Shapton stones, so I’ll blame technique.

What I’m doing these days is hollow grinding on the T-4 at the coarse grit, then switching to the fine grit (no Japanese stone) then free hand honing on the strop. I very much believe my honing technique needs work, a lot of work, but that’s just practice.

Now for the real question.

I use my planes, they aren’t exactly dull but they sure aren’t as sharp as I’d like. I use several planes so I usually have to touch up 2 or 3 at a time. I look at the Tormek, the jig, and just sigh. Between the setting it up in a jig, using the measuring tool, marking the edge, adjusting it until I get the right distance, it’s time consuming.

There is obviously something I’m missing. Is the grinding wheel just for outright dull blades and I should be touching up with the leather side? Should I just use the Tormek for going from really dull to mostly sharp then finish on a Shapton? Hollow grinds make free hand use of stones pretty easy. I just can’t imagine anyone would seriously use a Tormek for touching up if it takes that long per blade.

Thanks in advance

[Andrew Hughes]

I have a Tormek I hollow grind my A2 Lie Neilson plane blades. Then Shapton stones with side sharpening technique.
I hardly ever strop A2 its just not gaining me anything.
I remember feeling the way you did with the Tormek and setup. Trust me you’ll get faster the longer you use it the more you’ll like it.
My first Tormek was the 2000 I have the new one t8? With the 10 inch wheel.
Here one thing the Tormek will do that’s not often takes about grind towards the tool grinding away from the tool.
I let you discover why it a boon over a typical grinder.
Good Luck

[Andrew Seemann]

I have an older Tormek. I use it for two things, putting a hollow grind on the tools, and stropping on the leather wheel. After hollow grinding, I do a secondary bevel freehand on a 4000 grit water stone. It normally takes 10-20 seconds. After honing on the stone, I quickly hit the edge on the strop wheel with that friable toothpaste that comes with the Tormek. I only stop for a few seconds though, so it doesn't round the bevel. I do touch ups on the water stone as well, usually 10-30 seconds. Any longer and you are either waiting too long between touch ups, or the hollow grind needs to be redone.

For now, try skipping the leather wheel. Just put your hollow grind on with the Tormek, and put a secondary bevel on with single higher grit water stone (like 4000 or higher) and see how the edge turns out. A strop on the leather wheel helps a little, but it isn't an earth shattering improvement. Just worry about getting your grinds and geometry right for now and after you get that down, then you can experiment with stropping. I only added the strop step to my routine a few years ago.

I sometimes think people spend too much time on the stones and leather wanting to go a "really good job" and end up rounding over their edge. You want to remove the dullness and no more, otherwise you are just wasting time, steel, and abrasive:)

[Michael Rutman]

With a hollow grind why would you do a secondary bevel? I thought the point of a bevel was so you could sharpen just the bevel and not the entire face. That’s what a hollow grind gives me.

[Andrew Seemann]

I think there might be some semantic confusion here. The hollow grind is the primary bevel, the secondary is just a shade steeper. It is basically what you get when you sharpen with a stone after a hollow grind, either by registering on both sides of the hollow or just the cutting edge a little steeper than that. The idea is that you just remove a little metal, not the whole face (the point of the hollow grind). It also makes the actual cutting edge a little stronger since it is a steeper angle. If you are using a stone after your Tormek and not completely removing the hollow, you are doing a secondary bevel.

[Derek Cohen]

There are two terms in grinding and sharpening which often get used interchangeably, and this creates confusion.

A secondary bevel is a bevel at a higher angle than the primary bevel (e.g. primary bevel is 25 degrees and secondary bevel is 30 degrees). If you add yet another higher bevel, it is called a tertiary bevel.

A “micro bevel” is simply a tiny bevel. It does not refer to the bevel angle, only the bevel size.

I prefer to use the term “micro secondary bevel” when one lift the chisel (=higher angle) and hones a narrow strip along the bevel edge. The aim for all honing guides is to create a micro secondary bevel.

Now if you hollow grind a blade, and then freehand hone on the hollow (that is, using the hollow as a jig), then you create a micro bevel … however, since this is coplanar with the primary bevel, it is not a secondary bevel. This is how I sharpen. The advantage is that edges are repeatable without a jig.

Clear as mud? :)

Regards from Perth

Derek