Anyone Using Titebond Original for Shop Sawn Veneer?

[John TenEyck]

I have used buckets and buckets of Weldwood Plastic Resin Glue to veneer my 1/16 - 1/8" shop sawn veneer onto Baltic birch, MDF, etc. It was easy to get, didn't go bad for a long time, and was reasonably priced. Well, no more. After not being able to find it for several months on Amazon, etc., I contacted DAP and was told it was discontinued several years ago. I swear I bought some a year ago, certainly within the last 2 years. Regardless, I need a new glue for veneering.

I have used Unibond 800 in the past. It has some advantages of a longer open time and less clamping pressure over PRG, and the price is reasonable. It's shelf life is barely a year, however. Not a deal breaker, however, and I know it works. My other obvious option is epoxy. I know it works but it has some serious drawbacks mostly related to cleanup, but also that it wicks through any pore to the show side very easily. There's also liquid hide glue, I suppose, but I have never seriously considered it because of the water solubility issue. And there's also Gorilla Glue. It's another product that works but, again, it's a pain to deal with as far as cleanup.

Which brings me to Titebond Original. Its properties look reasonably good for creep resistance. So, is anyone using TB Original with shop sawn veneer? Maybe stated somewhat better: Has anyone been using TB Original for several years with shop sawn veneer with no failures?

Looking forward to your input. Thanks.

John

[Mark Bolton]

Original is my default glue but I cant speak directly to veneer though we'ved used it on everything including veneered parts but Im not a veneer expert. I follow a prop building channel on youtube (culver props) and I believe she is going through the same issue with DAP Weldwood having been her default for decades and the last couple videos she's trying out an alternate, I cant remember which. There must have been a warehouse full of that material being bled down because a lot of people have been using it far more recently than several years ago.

[jerry cousins]

the op said that unibond glue lasts about a year - i keep the bottle of unibond in the freezer between pours - i've not really tracked the dates but doing that helps it last more than year.
jc

[johnny means]

We use it all the time with no issues. I would use it exclusively, but sometimes the short open times are an issue.

[Brian Holcombe]

Yes, for years now I’ve used either TB original or TB II. No complaints.

Just looked at a piece that had gotten direct sunlight by a window for at least 5 years, still tight.

[Christopher Charles]

TB II for years, but primarily on small projects. No issues.

[Mitch schiffer]

I use the titebond cold press veneer glue. It has worked well for me. I haven't really had any bleed through problems, Clean up is easy, a decent open time, no mixing 2 parts together. It has been a little harder to find in the gallon size since the supply chain issues.

[Jamie Buxton]

For me, the drawback with Titebond for veneer is the water in it. I'm concerned about warping the panel. I use epoxy for both sliced veneer and sawn veneer. I use West Systems 105 epoxy with 205 or 206 hardener depending on the season. In addition to lack of water, this epoxy has a nice long open time, so you have plenty of time to get the panel into the bag without worrying that the glue is going to set up before you get it clamped up.

[Kevin Jenness]

I prefer Titebond Extend over original for veneer as it has a more rigid glueline. I also use epoxy and Titebond 2 at times. I did use Titebond original on 1/16" veneer on a number of projects with no known problems except for delamination from a neglected major water spill, which I was able to relay using a hot iron.

I like Unibond 800 except for the shelf life as it has the rigidity of ppr glue, lower water content, variable cure time and optional blocker to prevent bleedthrough. I would favor it over Titebond for any spiteful veneer like crotches or burls. There were some reports of staining on sliced veneers some years back, perhaps due to insufficiently thorough mixing, but I have never experienced it. Best results seem to come from mixing with a drill paddle, letting rest and remixing.

[John TenEyck]

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. Kevin, you are right, the strength after 150F overnight shows almost no loss in strength for Extend compared to less than 50% for Original, but that's still 3X what it is for Cold Press glue. After a poor experience with Better bond, I wouldn't trust either of those products with shop sawn veneer.

I think it's down to Extend, Unibond 800, polyurethane, or epoxy. Cost and ease of use favors Extend.

John

[Mike Henderson]

I've use plain old white glue (Elmer's white glue) for a lot of veneer (commercial veneer) with no problems over many years. I've also used Titebond original with no problems. The advantage/disadvantage of white glue is that if it comes through the veneer, you can wash it off with water and not have a glue mark under your finish.

The disadvantage is that if the piece got wet - really wet - the veneer could come unglued. But you'd almost have to have the piece caught in a flood to have that happen. I suppose that since Titebond original is not waterproof, you could have the same problem.

Mike

[Paul F Franklin]

What about Unibond One? I have no experience with it, so am asking out of curiosity.

[Zachary Hoyt]

I use Titebond Original to glue shop sawn veneers to the outside of a cylinder, when a customer wants a veneered banjo rim. I don't have them on hand once they're done, but I imagine if the veneers were coming loose the customers would have let me know. I also use it for small pieces of shop sawn veneer for peghead overlays, and it works fine there too. I have not made large flat veneered panels.

[joe maday]

What about Cascamite plastic resin glue? sold on amazon? Never used it but I wonder if it is the same? 26.00 for 8oz., mix 2 parts to 1 part water.

[John TenEyck]

What about Cascamite plastic resin glue? sold on amazon? Never used it but I wonder if it is the same? 26.00 for 8oz., mix 2 parts to 1 part water.

I'm sure it works well, Joe, but the price is ridiculous.

John

[John TenEyck]

I've use plain old white glue (Elmer's white glue) for a lot of veneer (commercial veneer) with no problems over many years. I've also used Titebond original with no problems. The advantage/disadvantage of white glue is that if it comes through the veneer, you can wash it off with water and not have a glue mark under your finish.

The disadvantage is that if the piece got wet - really wet - the veneer could come unglued. But you'd almost have to have the piece caught in a flood to have that happen. I suppose that since Titebond original is not waterproof, you could have the same problem.

Mike

Thanks Mike. Shop sawn veneer and sliced veneer are different animals. Shop sawn veneer behaves more like real wood so some of the glues that work fine with sliced veneer don't with shop sawn stuff. I can't find any strength data for Elmer's glue so it's not on my radar.

John

[John TenEyck]

What about Unibond One? I have no experience with it, so am asking out of curiosity.

Maybe. It's probably similar to Titebond Original or Extend but I haven't seen any data so that's just a guess. Thanks.

John

[Mel Fulks]

Glad to see Mike is back. White glue used to be well known for moving ,shrinking the veneer into little islands (higher ground in the middle).
Or just moving just a bit away from where you wanted it. There were lots of warnings in print about using it , and I’ve seen it ,in employments be a problem. But I would not be surprised if he has a procedure that obviates that. Yellow glue was big news because of its stability and non gummyness. I saw some shops start using less hot
hide glue and more yellow glue.

[Mel Fulks]

[QUOTE=John TenEyck;3168812]I'm sure it works well, Joe, but the price is ridiculous.


We used to order it much cheaper than the Weldwood stuff. Can’t remember the company now. Look up Plastic Resin Glue. Not brand
name.

[Robert Engel]

What about this?

471762

[Will Boulware]

I just finished some bent lam work with Unibond One and had a reasonably positive experience. The open time is pretty good and I got next to nothing springback-wise. Glueline dries hard enough to cut yourself on (DAMHKT), and it's tintable.

It's still a PVA, so by the time I got glue on my last bent lam ply, the first one had a bit of cupping from being wet on one side, but after clamping and drying, there were no issues. These were shop-sawn 1/8" plies, so probably thicker than your shop sawn veneer, but the concept translates since it wasn't thin sliced commercial stuff.

If you're looking for a PVA glue to do this type of work, I'd recommend this over titebond any day (and I use titebond for most everything else I do - I like it).

[Brian Holcombe]

I do bent laminations pretty routinely, with titebond II normally. Looking a chair back yesterday that was a bent lamination, about five years old now and still looks exactly like when I made it.

I did veneer work with better bond and unibond and much prefer titebond original or II. I’ll give titebond extend a try when my container of II runs out. I load up a Pizzi tank and use their pressurized roller for laying the glue.

[Jeff Roltgen]

Brian; Your bent laminations actually hold their shape with a PVA? Spring back tolerable?

Weldwood Plastic Resin Glue: had no Idea it was dropped. Evidently I've got the last of it in my shop.
Alternative: Veneer supplies sells Ultra-CAT powdered Urea Resin, which I've used with equally good results for burl veneers and thicker, bent lams for a super-solid, rigid glue line. Can also be speed-cured with heat blankets.
FWIW
jeff

[Brian Holcombe]

Chair backs on spindle back chairs aren’t ultra critical, so I just plan a little more curve than ultimately desired.

[Mel Fulks]

[QUOTE=John TenEyck;3168812]I'm sure it works well, Joe, but the price is ridiculous.


We used to order it much cheaper than the Weldwood stuff. Can’t remember the company now. Look up Plastic Resin Glue. Not brand
name.

well, I was wrong on this one. Can’t find much . Are the Feds trying to drive it out of use ?

[Ed Mitchell]

What about this?

471762


That's my go-to, but the OP wanted extended shelf life beyond 12 months
I'm with those who recommended an epoxy -- you can store for a few years if stored properly, you won't get crazy warping from moisture, rigid cure, it's easy to get 40 minutes+ of open time, and bleed-through is never a problem when your epoxy cures water-clear.

[John TenEyck]

Thanks very much Jeff. I had forgotten about Ultra CAT. Looks for all the world like a perfect replacement for PRG.

John

[Mel Fulks]

Jeff, when we were out of plastic-resin stuff we added a little water to yellow glue. The lams would stay on overnight in a warm room.
The glue-up would ,of course ,spring back ,but as dried , off form , they would curl up some. The water actually seemed to help that.
I think the water was a big part of what made the plastic resin glue work.

[Kevin Jenness]

Thanks very much Jeff. I had forgotten about Ultra CAT. Looks for all the world like a perfect replacement for PRG.

John

Be aware that the stated shelf life is one year unopened and eight months after opening. As I recall the same was true for the Weldwood product, although your experience with it indicates that it really was usable for longer. Perhaps that is true for Ultracat. In any case, water is the catalyst so keeping humidity out is the key.

[joe maday]

found a second listing on amazon....8oz $17.36...ships from Amazon...might be worth a try

[John TenEyck]

That's my go-to, but the OP wanted extended shelf life beyond 12 months
I'm with those who recommended an epoxy -- you can store for a few years if stored properly, you won't get crazy warping from moisture, rigid cure, it's easy to get 40 minutes+ of open time, and bleed-through is never a problem when your epoxy cures water-clear.

I don't need 12+ months shelf life; it would be just nice to have. I ended up ordering some Unibond 800 because I've used it in the past and I know it works. I do plan to give the Ultra CAT a look see in the near future as it looks like the perfect replacement for Weldwood PRG. And I may try a test panel with TB Original just to see how it behaves over a few months.

Thanks for all the help.

John