Been a long time! River table advice??

[Fred Voorhees]

Guys, I haven't haunted this forum for literally years. Resident Jim Becker will vouch for both my filled to the brim schedule in retirement and also that I have stayed active in my woodworking. I return to Sawmill because I am fairly certain that I will find those that have forged the path ahead of me in regards to making river tables. I have a really family oriented project coming up as a river dining table and it will be my first go. I have gone over all aspects of the project, from building a slab flattening jig to building the epoxy stage containment jig to apply ing the final stages and the flood coat. None of it gives me pause and I am quite confidant of a successful project. But I thought that I might reach out to you guys to see if I couldn't pick up tips that might allow me to sidestep any little potential stumble? Anything guys? I will be on my desktop tomorrow and can fully describe where I am right now with the project and what the back story is. Thanks guys...any little tips would be appreciated!

[Matt Day]

Tip - the trend is over. ;-)

[Mitch schiffer]

I'm sure you already know but make sure to use a deep pour epoxy for you main pour. I haven't done much for flood coats. I don't particularly like the high gloss finish but if you do a flood coat be sure to not use the same deep pour type epoxy for that.

[Richard Coers]

Don't make your first resin job a huge table with expensive slabs. Start with cutting boards. Resin is super expensive!

[Mel Fulks]

The trend being over would be bad …if you wanted to sell the materials. But the market might be just right for buying materials. And
Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn might be looking to pick up some endorsement work.

[Dave Zellers]

Thanks guys...any little tips would be appreciated!

Don't do it! Put the epoxy down and slowly back away.

[Ole Anderson]

I suggest you haunt the Black Tail Studio YouTube Channel. This guy is the Guru of epoxy tables and freely shares his knowledge. There is a reason he went from zero to 1.32 million subscribers in just a few years. https://www.youtube.com/c/BlacktailStudio

[Keith Outten]

Welcome back Fred.

[Jim Becker]

Fred, I'll echo that it's really important to do some smaller scale projects for this kind of thing because of the nature of the material including cost and the technique required to get a clean, bubble-free pour. You might also check out any available videos from Total Boat who is a favorite supplier for resin products including those that can be used for "deep pour" projects. Should you choose to go the deep pour route, be aware that the process is measured in days and for a healthy portion of at least the first day, you will be constantly attending to the project. IE no sleep. So practice is really, really, really important.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Hi Fred, welcome back! Sorry, can't offer any good advise on the river table.

[Fred Voorhees]

Fred, I'll echo that it's really important to do some smaller scale projects for this kind of thing because of the nature of the material including cost and the technique required to get a clean, bubble-free pour. You might also check out any available videos from Total Boat who is a favorite supplier for resin products including those that can be used for "deep pour" projects. Should you choose to go the deep pour route, be aware that the process is measured in days and for a healthy portion of at least the first day, you will be constantly attending to the project. IE no sleep. So practice is really, really, really important.

Jim, I don't see any need for extended days that would need a loss of sleep. Any of the pre-pour work on the slabs can obviously be accomplished in increments or stages. The sealing coats that would go a long way towards eliminating any bubble possibilities can easily be accomplished in one day of maybe a few hours. The deep pour will be broken up in stages anyway since I will have rock in the bottom of the river. For that to happen, I will need to pour the first quarter inch only so that can cure enough to support the stone above the very bottom of the table which I will clean up and level one final time with the slab flattening jig after all of the epoxy cures. So that is one pour. I doubt it, but that might leave just one more pour session to fill up the river (dependant on what kind of depth is left). But the incremental pours can be accomplished one right after another up to the maximum allowed depth. Afterward, any of the clean up after it is out of the mould, can again be accomplished at my liesure and over time, but definitely not anything that would result in my having to work through the night. Here is the video from Stone Coat Countertops detailing the process. I am buying my epoxy from this company. I don't see anything within this entire process that couldn't be broken down into comfortable work days hour-wise. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AmIfEUlKB4

[Jim Becker]

Fred, it really depends upon the product you use and how deep the pours are. Some products have cure times as long or longer than 72 hours and a big chunk of time up front to manage bubbles with a torch repeatedly. But if you use a product that goes in steps with shorter cure times in exchange for more pours, you can certainly have an easier time with it. Again, it really comes down to what product you use. I don't recall Stone Coat coming up previously, but I could have missed it. The majority seem to use West Systems, System 3 and Total Boat, with the latter being popular and growing. Anecdotally, of course!

[Tom Bender]

So i'm guessing that the bubbles come out of the wood, right? Can't you just seal the wood first?

[Jim Becker]

So i'm guessing that the bubbles come out of the wood, right? Can't you just seal the wood first?
That's actually a requirement for best results...sealing the wood edges first, generally with a thin clear resin mixture. But aside from bubbles from the material, the very act of mixing the resin is what causes a lot of bubbles and they have to be "encouraged" to leave by methods like torching the surface repeatedly over a period of time until the resin sets up to the point that it's, um...pointless...to continue. Some folks who do a lot of resin work use a vacuum chamber on their mixtures to get a lot of the suspended air in the material out before a pour.

[Zachary Hoyt]

Maybe you could say that the bubbles were to add an air of verisimilitude. I have never seen an actual river without bubbles, so why shouldn't they be in a table that is supposed to depict a river?

[Prashun Patel]

Opaque epoxy (any tint or color will cause it to become opaque) is more forgiving with respect to bubbles in deep voids; you won't see them.

However, if you are not tinting the epoxy, beware of trapped bubbles or too thick a coat (in a void). Trapped air and/or uneven hardening of the lower layers can cause epoxy to dry to a mucousy yellow.

[Tom Bender]

So what is needed is a way to mix and pour the epoxy without entraining any air in the material to be used.

I am imagining a mixing chamber that is tall and narrow. It is first filled with resin and if any bubbles get into it they are allowed to rise to the surface. The activator is injected into it with a manifold of nozzles submerged to various depths, they are also the stirrer. Any bubbles are at the top. Epoxy is discharged from the bottom and the entrained bubbles are left in the heel.

[Zachary Hoyt]

The mixing chamber sounds good, but I don't know how it could be cleaned afterward, and it would be too complex and expensive to be disposable.

[Jim Becker]

I share Zachary's concerns. A vacuum chamber has the mixed resin in a separate container...the one used to mix and pour. It merely extracts as much of the suspended air in the resin from the mixing process.

"That all said"...this kind of thing isn't going to be in the toolbox of someone not doing frequent resin work due to cost, etc.

[Bill Dufour]

Why a small river why not an entire bay? This table is about 300 by 400 feet ,not inches.
Bill D.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Army_Corps_of_Engineers_Bay_Model

https://www.spn.usace.army.mil/Missions/Recreation/Bay-Model-Visitor-Center/

[Derek Cohen]

...any little tips would be appreciated!

Fred, it is wonderful to have you back. So don't take this the wrong way ... build a table that involves actual woodworking. River table are not only overdone, but they are devoid of anything that you will wish to own and show off in a few years time. If you have an epoxy itch to scratch, then find a board with small voids to fill with black tinted resin ... sympathetic with the bigger picture. Not as a feature.

River tables are one of my two pet dislikes. The other is the use of butterflies to close a crack .. just because it is cool to have butterflies.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Tom Bender]

Hi Derek, let me have a little fun with you here.

River tables may be a little passe but loose drawer bottoms (vs glued in plywood) are arcane.

[Frank Pratt]

So what is needed is a way to mix and pour the epoxy without entraining any air in the material to be used.

I am imagining a mixing chamber that is tall and narrow. It is first filled with resin and if any bubbles get into it they are allowed to rise to the surface. The activator is injected into it with a manifold of nozzles submerged to various depths, they are also the stirrer. Any bubbles are at the top. Epoxy is discharged from the bottom and the entrained bubbles are left in the heel.

Is your real name Rube Goldberg?

[Frank Pratt]

Fred, it is wonderful to have you back. So don't take this the wrong way ... build a table that involves actual woodworking. River table are not only overdone, but they are devoid of anything that you will wish to own and show off in a few years time. If you have an epoxy itch to scratch, then find a board with small voids to fill with black tinted resin ... sympathetic with the bigger picture. Not as a feature.

Regards from Perth

Derek

I agree 100% with this.

[Tom Bender]

Is your real name Rube Goldberg?

Frank you're just jealous of my genius.