Well if you don't find what you want, build it!!!

[Pat Jeddy]

See my last post in this thread......

Hi, I've turned my first hollow form (right now I'm finishing it, will post.) that didn't explode. I searched the forum and found that the Hollowmaster was a good first choice. Well, I feel I battled it more than cut with it. Also used a few scrapers. Maybe it's a female thing, but like Carole, I tried a vessel with a narrower neck (over my head and beyond my toolbox!) so I ran into problems with the Sorby's size.

Anyway, for those of you that have various hollowing tools, which do you use for what task, end grain vs. cross, etc? I am interested in the Stinger/Scorpion set as I can upgrade to the larger tools when I start to turn bigger wood. And, the price is very good. I can manage some expense, but hundreds and hundreds of dollars is not doable.

Thanks in advance, you folks are so great! :D:D:D

[Carole Valentine]

Hollowmaster is not a small opening tool, as you have discovered and I wouldn't recommend it for someone just beginning hollow forms. But now that you have it, try using it to turn the inside of a couple of bowls so you can see what the cutter is doing and get a feel for the tool. For small vessels I use the Stinger. For 6"-8" vessels I use the medium Kelton hollowers in a Hosaluk handle and the Stinger gooseneck for hollowing high under the shoulders. I am close to ordering the large Keltons. I also sometimes use the Kelton hollowing gate. When I get good enough to justify the expense, I will get a complete hollowing rig, maybe even with with laser.:)

[Keith Burns]

I use the Hamlett Little Brother which is a ring tool. It has an adjustable protective cover which can be be adjusted to limit the size of the cut. Unfortunately with the straight and swan necks it runs about $200. It can easily reach a depth of 12-14". It is my go to tool.

[Bill Grumbine]

Hi Pat

There are more hollowing tools out there than you can shake a turned stick at, and it seems like anyone who wants to be anyone makes one, puts his or her name on it, and then starts hawking it like it is the final solution to all our hollowing woes. I have three hollowing tools, or more accurately three types of hollowing tools, that I use on a regular basis. This discounts a couple of home made ones from very early on in my career.

My first real hollowing tool was a Stewart tool, now also sold by Sorby. It set me back $150.00, and while it works well, did not perform as I would have liked. My second real set, and these are the ones I will recommend for you, are patterned on those developed and used by the pioneer of hollow forms, David Ellsworth. These tools are very simple in their form, function, and fabrication (how's that for early in the morning!). They are homemade from relatively inexpensive materials, and they work well in just about any hollowing situation regardless of grain direction. When students come to me and want to learn to hollow, these are the tools we use.

<img src="http://www.enter.net/~ultradad/hollowingtool02.jpg">

Here is a shot of the three tools I use with part of the handles visible. the shafts are mild steel from the hardware store, and the tips are bits of high speed steel (HSS) glued into holes with CA glue. The handles are an excess on my part, playing around with my Legacy mill. They do not need to be as fancy as what you see. A branch sawn off a tree will work, or you can turn a long round handle to the contours you prefer. What you cannot see is that these tools are long, around 36" or so. That offers the user tremendous leverage when hanging out over the tool rest.

<img src="http://www.enter.net/~ultradad/hollowingtool01.jpg">

Here is a closeup of the tips. I got mine at Woodcraft, but I do not know if they sell them anymore. I would imagine that they should not be too hard to find in someone's catalog though. They are the most expensive part of the tool, and the three together ran somewhere around $30 - $40. these three angles will address 99.9% of your hollowing needs.

These are fast and relatively easy to use. They can be used to do a complete vessel of many different sizes and shapes, and they do not cost you an obscene amount of money. Now, if you want to spend an obscene amount of money on a tool, then you might want to look at a laser guided torque arrested hollowing rig, which is the latest and the greatest when it comes to hollowing tools. However, as fancy as it is, it is not nearly as fast as these tools for getting in and out of the cut, so even though my third hollowing tool is a laser, and I use it frequently, I still use these for the bulk of material removal.

I hope this helps you out some, and if you have more questions about them, I will be glad to try and answer them.

Bill

[Pete Simmons]

CA holds those tips on???

How long do they last?

If they last more than 1 minute then CA is MUCH better stuff than I thought!!

[Bill Grumbine]

Pete, I've been using these tools, and students have been as well, for at least four years now. They will require a torch to remove the tips when they need to be replaced, which will be several more years, since I hone them with a diamond hone instead of grinding them on a grinder. Like I said, I don't do as many hollow forms as some, so they have lasted a while, but they do hold up under the pounding hollowing gives them.

The most recent piece I did hasn't been published yet, but here is the one before it.

<img src="http://www.enter.net/~ultradad/mapleburlpot01.jpg">

Bill

[Greg Heppeard]

Bill,

It looks to me like the tips are some of the replacement tips for the Sorby tools. Most Woodcraft stores should be able to get them for you. I stock them in my store.

[Pat Jeddy]

Bill, I think I might try to make a set of the homemade tools. I'll be going by the woodworking store tomorrow and can pick up tips. How do they insert into the steel? Drilled holes in the end or ??

Thanks to all for a helping out. I so appreciate it.

[Bill Grumbine]

Hi Pat

You got it, drilled holes. The tools were held in a drill press vise at the angle needed, and the holes bored with a regular drill bit. The good news is, you do not need a high degree of precision to get this right, with the straight cutter being the possible exception. Even that has some wiggle room - although maybe I shouldn't say wiggle! :eek: Good luck with it!

Bill

[Bill Grumbine]

Bill,

It looks to me like the tips are some of the replacement tips for the Sorby tools. Most Woodcraft stores should be able to get them for you. I stock them in my store.

Hi Greg

I entered Sorby tool tip into the search function on the Woodcraft site, and got a bazillion hits on tips on woodworking. I am going in to our local store this evening to deliver a bowl I started at a demo and finished at home, so I will check and see if they have any here.

Thanks.

Bill

[Carole Valentine]

Hi Pat

You got it, drilled holes. The tools were held in a drill press vise at the angle needed, and the holes bored with a regular drill bit. The good news is, you do not need a high degree of precision to get this right, with the straight cutter being the possible exception. Even that has some wiggle room - although maybe I shouldn't say wiggle! :eek: Good luck with it!

Bill

Every time I try to drill steel at a 45 deg angle, the bit wanders, even with a dimple. And that's on square stock! I can't imagine trying to drill at an angle on slick round stock. Of course I am pretty close to an idiot when it comes to metal work.:(

[Pat Jeddy]

hey, I just ordered the Ellsworth staight and bent tips from Crafts Supplies - really good prices. They look like the sorby tips to me. And Bill, how long are the handles?

[Greg Heppeard]

Hi Greg

I entered Sorby tool tip into the search function on the Woodcraft site, and got a bazillion hits on tips on woodworking. I am going in to our local store this evening to deliver a bowl I started at a demo and finished at home, so I will check and see if they have any here.

Thanks.

Bill

I think (from looking at pic) the numbers you want are RS211C and RS212C (Sorby #'s) 812101 and 812102 (Woodcraft #'s)

[Ron Wilson]

Bill, the tips look like those on Sorby tools. Why are your shopmade tools better than the hollow master tools which appear to use the same tips? I can use my two sizes of hollow master tools in all the positions you show. Thanks!

Ron Wilson

[Bill Grumbine]

Bill, the tips look like those on Sorby tools. Why are your shopmade tools better than the hollow master tools which appear to use the same tips? I can use my two sizes of hollow master tools in all the positions you show. Thanks!

Ron Wilson

I don't know that they are any better Ron, but I suspect that they are a lot cheaper.

Bill

[Bill Grumbine]

hey, I just ordered the Ellsworth staight and bent tips from Crafts Supplies - really good prices. They look like the sorby tips to me. And Bill, how long are the handles?

Hi Pat

I don't know exactly how long the handles are, but it is something where you can make them any length you like. I think mine are in the neighborhood of 24" or so, not counting the shaft of the tool itself.

Bill

[Jim Dunn]

Every time I try to drill steel at a 45 deg angle, the bit wanders, even with a dimple. And that's on square stock! I can't imagine trying to drill at an angle on slick round stock. Of course I am pretty close to an idiot when it comes to metal work.:(
Carol use a center drill, available at GRZ for about .80 a piece. Their a very short drill sharpened on both ends and give you a 60degree included angle. I use them to drill centers in my turnings as they are easy to use in a hand drill too.

PM me and I'll try to provide you a link. They are available in at least 5 sizes but you'll usually only need about 3 sizes.

Jim

[Bill Stevener]

Hi Pat,

I have listed this post a number of times. You may wish to take a look.
Works great for me and the cutting end of the business is free ( if you break drills) :D
Very simple to make.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=197440#post197440

Bill.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>:)

Hang on, I'll see if I can fix it.

[Bill Stevener]

Hi Pat,

Fixed the post, should work now.

Bill.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>:)

[Ron Sardo]

Hi Greg

I entered Sorby tool tip into the search function on the Woodcraft site, and got a bazillion hits on tips on woodworking. I am going in to our local store this evening to deliver a bowl I started at a demo and finished at home, so I will check and see if they have any here.

Thanks.

Bill


Hi Bill

Wouldn't these work?
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=54&PARTPG=INLMK3
Scroll to the bottom left side of the page

[Pat Jeddy]

Well, wait and see - I've got 1 1/2 of 'em completed. 1st, build 'em, 2nd, Do they work?, 3rd, if you build it, they will come.
Tools that is. Black gold, Texas Tea. The sound of scraping wood sweetly disengaging itself from the sides of a hollow form.....


I watch way too many movies....and definitely way too much T.V.

[Charles McKinley]

Hi Bill,

What are the marks on the handle for?

[Bill Grumbine]

Hi Chuck

The marks let me know which way the tool tip is pointing when it is inside the form. This is very important to know, since if it points in the wrong direction, especially up, there is going to be a large, pants wetting bang, followed by a string of bad words. Many times you need to go find a new piece of wood. ;)

Bill

[Pat Jeddy]

Per Bill's pics and words, here are the set of hollowing tools I built:

30407

30408


I need to fix the center tool, it's not at the correct angle. I'll tell you, these tools work great! I made handles out of black steel pipe and covered them with tennis grip tape. The cutters are David Ellsworth replacement cutters and are a lot less than the Sorby's.

These tools are heavy but the weight seems to add stability. These are BIG, 36", just like Mr. Grumbine recommended. I can't believe they actually work. Here's what I've turned with them so far:



Cherry finished with friction polish and buffed
2 1/4" H x 5 1/2" dia.

30410



Myrtle, finish with tung oil and buffed
1 3/4" x 6 1/4" dia.
30409

[Glenn Clabo]

Pat...
That is wicked good...as we say here on the other coast. Make the tools to fit the job. Ya don't get better than that.

GREAT JOB!!!

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Pat you are an inspiration!!!

Way to go!!

Boy I think I'm going to like this whole round spinny thing, if you get to make your own tools...... :D

Ya, I like that, very, very much!!

Another week to go until I get my lathe....... :(

[tod evans]

go pat! gotta love home made!

[Bob Noles]

Pat,

Here I am still trying to learn how to use tools and you go and build these. They really look good and they will serve you well.

Keep up the great inspirations.

[John Hart]

Really nice work Pat. Making my own tools has really brought a great perspective into this craft. There's just something about it...Maybe because that's the way they did it in the "Olden Days". I wonder if they made their own Pulse-Width Modulated, MOSFET Driven, Speed Controllers back then? :confused: :D

[Bill Grumbine]

Very nice Pat! I'm glad I was able to help you out some, and it looks like you are going to be doing some very nice hollow forms with those.

Bill

[Glenn Clabo]

Maybe because that's the way they did it in the "Olden Days". I wonder if they made their own Pulse-Width Modulated, MOSFET Driven, Speed Controllers back then? :confused: :D

Didn't they call it Pulse Increasing, YourOwnFoot Driven, Speed Controllers?:o

[Bart Leetch]

The tool steel you guys are using reminds me of HS metal tool steel use on machine lathes. I don't see why it wouldn't work & it isn't expensive. If I look around here at home I am sure I have some still around from around 1972 when I was taking machine shop in college.

[Joe Melton]

How do you glue the metal to the wood handle, and how far into the wood do you drill for the metal shaft? Do you roughen up the metal or flatten it a bit so it doesn't twist loose from the handle after being glued?
I assume the length of the metal protruding from the handle is based on the depth you want to use the tool, and that the distance the metal fits inside the handle is also based on that.
Joe