Grizzly shipping trouble?

[Mark Rios]

I'm getting ready to upgrade my Emerson built Ridgid contractor saw and buy a (I think) G1023sl along with a new jointer ( G0490 or G0586) and bandsaw (G0566). 2 or 3 years ago I purchased a G1182Z and a G0555 and they were both shipped in cardboard boxes, two boxes per machine I think. They had some damage to the boxes but I don't remember any damage to the machines though. While reading the reviews about the 1023sl on Amazon it was pointed out that the 1023 is shipped in a cardboard box as well. I noticed a recurring complaint of damaged boxes and some damaged machines as a result.

Now, the 1182 and 0555 are only a couple of hundred pounds apiece, and split up between two boxes I can see shipping them that way. But shipping a cabinet saw in a box? Are the quarter and half ton machines shipped in a box? What about the really big machines? Has anyone who has purchased a 1023 had trouble with damaged parts on boxed shipments like the reviews on Amazon? Just wondering.

[Dennis McDonaugh]

That's one of the reasons for my disatisfaction with Grizzly, They sent my jointer in two pieces, the base was in a cardboard box and the beds were in a very flimsy wooden crate. Actually the word crate doesn't really fit since the wood was about 1/8" thick. Overnite Shipping wasn't very good either, they trashed both boxes. From what I understand Grizzly has fired Overnite and is packing their stuff better.

BTW, My Jet cabinet saw shipped in a cardboard box, but it was bolted to a small pallet and the box was stapled to the pallet. It all arrived in one piece with no damage to the box via Central Freight.

[Steve Clardy]

My 1023 [in 1994] was straped to a pallet, covered with a heavy box.
Fence, rails, etc. were in another box, also strapped to the same pallet.
No damage.

Most of the damage occurs while on the truck. Falling over, getting jammed against another carton, forklift driver raming a fork throught it, etc.

Grizzly excels in taking care of damaged shipments.

[Andy Hoyt]

My 400 lb. G1005Z arrived fully assembled in a crate built with 1/2" mdf banded to a skid. I was impressed. No damage. This was last February

[Marcus Ward]

I drove down to the grizzly showroom in springfield so I didn't ship it, can't report on that, I can report, however, that if your saw remains upright during shipping, it'll be okay. The way it's shipped is pretty bombproof as long as it remains upright - even then if it'd probably be fine. It'd built like a brick outhouse. Bolted to a skid and encased in cardboard with enough squish room around it. The g0453 planer actually ships in a crate. Planer bolted to a skid and 1/2" plywood all around it. Again, as long as it doesn't fall over, it's fine. Delta could take a leaf from grizzly's book and learn to pack their stuff. I bought one of their mortisers and it arrived damaged (chipped base which was promptly replaced). My friend's arrived with the base and column snapped in 3 places. Looking through the reviews on amazon it looks like only one guy actually had serious damage to the saw, and reading his review I think he might be a moron, I dunno. I think you'll be okay with their shipping unless they toss it off the truck. Enjoy, I just got the cosmoline off mine yesterday.

[Russ Massery]

I bought a 1023SL three years ago. It wasn't bolted to a skid and fell over during shippment. They were very good about replacing all broken parts. Even after it all was said and done they still offered to replace it if I wasn't satisfied. The other machines I recieved from them came in perfect shape.

[Barry O'Mahony]

FWIW my Unisaw was shipping in a cardboard box as well. It was bolted to a pallet at the bottom of the box. IMHO that should be sufficient: if the freight company can pick it up and move it around easily with a forklift, they should be able to deliver it undamaged. The cardboard sides and top should just need to define a "keep out" zone and a little bit of cushioning. Expecting machinary to be shipped in in a container that would survive falling over, or having another machine stacked on top of it, is asking a bit much, I think.

The heaviest Grizzly thing I got, at about 1000 lbs, was bolted to the floor of a wooden crate. Said crate also included a pallet as its bottom.

[Jim DeMarco]

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=29316

[Allen Bookout]

That's one of the reasons for my disatisfaction with Grizzly, They sent my jointer in two pieces, the base was in a cardboard box and the beds were in a very flimsy wooden crate. Actually the word crate doesn't really fit since the wood was about 1/8" thick. Overnite Shipping wasn't very good either, they trashed both boxes. From what I understand Grizzly has fired Overnite and is packing their stuff better.

BTW, My Jet cabinet saw shipped in a cardboard box, but it was bolted to a small pallet and the box was stapled to the pallet. It all arrived in one piece with no damage to the box via Central Freight.
After seeing all of the problems with Overnight I would probably feel better if is was true that Grizzly fired them. This was not the case as of Jan 5th, 2006 as they were planning on using Overnight to ship me a GO490 in four to six weeks (Missouri to SW Florida). I know because I ordered a lift gate after my initial order and they added the cost of $32.00 saying that was Overnight's charge. Following is an excerpt from that correspondence.


<tt>Upon the arrival of this machine into our warehouse, your order will
ship
via Overnite Transportation. We can request lift gate service for the
your
delivery with this company for an additional $32.00 that will be added
to
the order. Should you choose to take advantage of this, the trucking
company will then lower the machine to the ground at the time of
delivery.</tt>

[Frank Hagan]

Overnight Transportation was recently bought out by UPS and is now part of the UPS family of companies. My company ships quite a bit with them, and they have improved greatly over the last year. They still have areas where they don't do so well ... into Ner Orleans, for instance ... but they are doing well in many parts of the country. At least for us (shipping boilers and water heaters ... not too much unlike power tools).

Packaging is an interesting thing. Sometimes better packaging results in rougher handling. One of my coworkers worked for a glass company, and they found that when they boxed their mirrors with triple wall corregated, foam blocks and the like, they had high concealed damage. When they switched to single wall corregate with a giant cut out, so you could see the mirror, the damage dropped to almost nothing. Seems seeing the mirror was a better reminder to be careful than a bunch of "FRAGILE" stickers.

I prefer an open crate ... you can see in an instant what has been speared by the fork.

[Allen Bookout]

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=29316
I took a look Jim but I must be missing something. Did not see any relevant information. Allen

P.S. As I look again I suppose it is about Grizzly service. I was just considering the shipping.

Frank Hagan, Thanks for your information. That makes me feel much better. I have great respect for UPS.

[Brian Hale]

My Bridgewood CS was in a OSB "plywood" crate bolted to the pallet. There was a top 2x2 wood frame around the top and an additional frame about half way down. Wilke also uncrated it, cleaned the cosmoline off, did a test run under power and checked the arbor runout. This is standard for most of their machines.

Brian :)

BTW, i picked it up myself.

[Michael Ballent]

I took a look Jim but I must be missing something. Did not see any relevant information. Allen

P.S. As I look again I suppose it is about Grizzly service. I was just considering the shipping.

Frank Hagan, Thanks for your information. That makes me feel much better. I have great respect for UPS.

Allen, Shiraz is the owner of Grizzly :D We have his ear here... occasionally, at least when he is not busy running a company and making guitars :rolleyes:

[Frank Hagan]

Frank Hagan, Thanks for your information. That makes me feel much better. I have great respect for UPS.

They are a well run company, and seem to do well with their acquisitions. The local depot is here where my office is, and the driver who comes by the office is impressed with the new owners. That bodes well for them, if the drivers like them.

[Keith Foster]

I have loads of experience with Grizzly shipments coming by Overnite - and coming in damaged as well (or lost altogether). However, Grizzly has stood by their products 100% at every turn. In my opinion their CS department is top notch and will take care of ANY issue you have.

Could the boxes they ship in be better designed, crated, or supported? Sure they could. They could also deliver them incased in 6" concrete and surrounded by armed guards. Point is, they have a contract with Overnite to deliver at a set price. That price is something we as consumers "shop" for. Do we not want (or demand) the very best deal at the lowest possible price? Sure we do. Who wants to "waste" money on shipping that could go for tools! And I might add - in certain areas of the country (not all) Overnite is the only carrier who will deliver on Saturday. Again, something many of us desire.

The packaging is sufficent for all but the lowest common denominator and given reasonable care the product would arrive fine. Unfortunately, in some areas of the country Overnite seems to be well below the bell curve. Still, I would only give a passing thought to the shipping issue. If it's damaged when it arrives then you can refuse shipment and Grizzly will send you another one. That works for SAIA, Overnite, Watkins, or any other shipper they or any other company chooses to use.

I suppose the moral of all of this is to order BEFORE you need something. Then when "stuff" happens you can hold off and wait for the right pitch. :cool:

[Keith Outten]

FWIW I received my Shopfox planer/molder from Grizzly this afternoon and it was delivered by Overnight. The machine was received in perfect condition, not a scratch, and it was delivered at the exact time they promised.

I haven't always been this lucky but in all fairness there have been problems with almost every carrier I have dealt with.

[Allen Bookout]

Thanks Keith! In that case I am expecting the same. I will report back when mine gets here which could be up to four more weeks. Allen

[Joe Chritz]

In the FWIW files..

I just received the 3 HP grizzly shaper on 12/30/05. It came via overnite with some damage to the bottom of the box. No damage to that part of the unit however the handwheel had broken.

One email to grizzly and a new part was on the way. It arrived a few days later. To my amazement I ordered the wrong part. (musta got messed up in cyberspace it couldn't have been me.)

Another email and the correct part arrived a few days later.

Stuff breaks in shipment and from what I have seen Grizzly takes care of it with no hassles. Getting that beast from the truck to the ground may be a trick without some help. (backhoe :) )

Enjoy

Joe

[John Wilson]

I'm a new member with a new Grizz G1023 just delivered by Overnite. It took three tries but no damage. First and second tries the lift gate didn't work. On the third try the driver stopped at the corner about a hunderd yards from my house (I live on a narrow street) and pushed the pallet jack with five boxes to my garage and dropped it exactly where I wanted it. After the second attempt I called Grizzly and promptly received an ativation number and a return call from their freight department. They advised that they would call first thing in the morning to see if they could get Overnite to expidite with a working lift gate. I don't know if it was a call from them but in any case as previously stated, alls well that ends well! The Overnite driver admitted that they do a good job of tearing up stuff and was supprised to see all my boxes delivered with no rips or tears in the cardboard. It may have helped that they put the saw on another pallet since the one attached to the bottom of the saw at the factory is a fairly flimsy affair. The driver also stated that since UPS is now the new owner, he expected changes to occur in how they do things in quick order.

Thanks to all those who have posted reviews and information about the Grizz G1023 as it helped to make up my mind on the purchase. From what I see so far I think I'm going to be happy with it. Now if my JessEm Sliding table would hurry up and arrive I'd be a real happy camper.

[John Lannon]

For what its worth...........A shipment that leaves grizzly's whare house might be handled by a forklift up to 4 times. 98% of all cargo damage occurs at loading docks. Machinery is unlikely to shift or fall over once its on the truck. They are crated/packaged with as low a center of gravity as possible. Quite often, a trucking company will leave empty trailers at the shipper, and will be faxed a copy of the "bill of lading" for the driver to hook up to without getting to see how its been loaded.

1. Loaded at whare house by forklift jockey.
2. "Regional" driver hauls to "local terminal" for cross docking.
3. Weather,traffic,accidents, might delay the load or it gets redirected through an alternate terminal.
4. Loading at local terminal.

I was a owner operator for a few years. I ran all 48, Canada, and Mexico. Shipping docks were always my no#1 fear.......Ice, Storms, Steep downgrades, bad motorists ALL took 2ND behind the shipping dock.

Forklift operators (jockeys) are brutal. They spear cargo, punch out the front of trailers, the sides etc. I would refuse to let them load unless I could be on the dock to watch what ever goods that I was hauling. If I thought they might have damaged any goods, I wrote it on the "BOL" and call my dispatcher. I had to carry my own cargo insurance, and it only takes a few incidents/claims before my rates would get jacked up.

[Dev Emch]

For what its worth...........A shipment that leaves grizzly's whare house might be handled by a forklift up to 4 times. 98% of all cargo damage occurs at loading docks. Machinery is unlikely to shift or fall over once its on the truck. They are crated/packaged with as low a center of gravity as possible. Quite often, a trucking company will leave empty trailers at the shipper, and will be faxed a copy of the "bill of lading" for the driver to hook up to without getting to see how its been loaded.

1. Loaded at whare house by forklift jockey.
2. "Regional" driver hauls to "local terminal" for cross docking.
3. Weather,traffic,accidents, might delay the load or it gets redirected through an alternate terminal.
4. Loading at local terminal.

I was a owner operator for a few years. I ran all 48, Canada, and Mexico. Shipping docks were always my no#1 fear.......Ice, Storms, Steep downgrades, bad motorists ALL took 2ND behind the shipping dock.

Forklift operators (jockeys) are brutal. They spear cargo, punch out the front of trailers, the sides etc. I would refuse to let them load unless I could be on the dock to watch what ever goods that I was hauling. If I thought they might have damaged any goods, I wrote it on the "BOL" and call my dispatcher. I had to carry my own cargo insurance, and it only takes a few incidents/claims before my rates would get jacked up.
Good thing these container freight companies dont haul atomic waste and nuclear bomb triggers or Sadam's virtual weapons of mass destruction! i guess I will be content with them hauling import woodworking machines.:D

My experience has been with yellow. Holy Cow! I have dealt with them about four times and they have either destroyed the cargo or goofed the shipping contract all but four times. In the case of destroyed cargo, I was moving a racine power hack saw. When it arrived, it was re-banded to the pallet on its side and the heavy cast iron arm was cracked like an egg shell. That did not happen in the truck! Some brain trust dropped it with a fork lift and then covered up his mistakes with a banding machine. And yellow was quick to have me sign on the line and remove the carcas... Um, I mean freight article.

But then again there was the experience with federal express freight. I bought a really cool and super accurate 9 inch SIP tilting rotary table which was surplused from the old NASA Apollo program. Sweeet! It left Fla and disappeared. About 12 days later I finally gave up and blew my stack. Then nobody could find the item. Finally they found it. The wooden crate was smashed, the lid missing. This extemely precise instrument was laying there in the crate, outdoors in the snow and slush in a corner by the dock manager's office. They insisted that it was only a bit of rust damage. A quick trip to a machine shop showed it was off by more than 600 thou. In other words, a total loss.

Ah yes, the reliability of the container freight industry!

[Marcus Ward]

Forklift operators (jockeys) are brutal. They spear cargo, punch out the front of trailers, the sides etc. I would refuse to let them load unless I could be on the dock to watch what ever goods that I was hauling.

Someone emailed me last night about when my boat first arrived in the US, the forklift guy put the mast on the forklift (27' long) sideways and tried to drive through the door (not 27' wide). :eek:

[Jim Becker]

My Jet LT Cabinet saw was shipped with a cardboard carton covering it and the pallet that the machine was bolted to. Pretty standard practice, I believe. The issue is likely more often how the shipment is treated between the source and destination, rather than how it is packaged... ;)

[Allen Bookout]

Why are some fork lift operators so reckless? Where my son in law works the operators can load a truck in no time and I would not hesitate to sit on a pallet being loaded twenty feet high. They are gentle, precise, and efficient so I know that it can be done.

Is it low pay or pressure for speed or low quality employees or boredom or what?

[John Lannon]

Why are some fork lift operators so reckless? Where my son in law works the operators can load a truck in no time and I would not hesitate to sit on a pallet being loaded twenty feet high. They are gentle, precise, and efficient so I know that it can be done.

Is it low pay or pressure for speed or low quality employees or boredom or what?


Its all about being a PRO. Dock work is hard, repeticious, and boring. Alot of dock workers are treated like neanderthols by thier supervisors and they just give up caring. Some could care less if they gash a 8 foot hole in the side of a $25,000 trailer, or beat up the cargo. But then again , I have seen some forklift operators get all upset because the think they might have set a 5,000 lb. paper roll a foot or so off the mark,..... thinking that they might have created a axle weight problem for the driver. I always tipped the paper mill operators on a good job. They can make or break a drivers day when it comes to getting the weight distributed right on a 40,000 lb. load.

[Marcus Ward]

I will say the forklift driver who loaded my order at Grizzly was a ninja with that forklift. I would have probably let him feed a baby with it. He was GOOD, and a very nice guy. They don't all suck.

[Keith Foster]

As a teenager I spent many an hour loading freight using a Yale electric fork lift for Best Products. I took pride in my work and - as far as I recall - never destroyed anything. Back then you were "checked" out on the lifts and required to take several training classes. They also fired your butt if you screwed up. Personally, I liked my job. Evidently there are several "dock hands" who don't.

My take has always been that you moved on when you didn't like your job any more - not stay around and trash the customers goods.

[Dave Lehnert]

When people think shipping they think about a place like Lowe’s delivering out a new stove from the store to your house. When shipped on an over the road truck it is a whole other story. It is not uncommon for your shipment to be on a truck that may also have a pallet or two for Home Depot in your town. The kid driving the forklift may have to pull your table saw off the truck to get his product. I would guess this is where most of the damage occurred.

I would have to agree Grizzly is the best at CS replacing damaged goods. But have you noticed how many people on the Creek alone have had damage to their Grizzly shipment. A friend has purchased 3 tools from Grizzly and two has arrived damaged. His shaper was so bad he had to send it back. They may be good at replacing etc…but I just don’t want or have to fool with a problem. I always like the Grizzly when deciding on a tool purchase but in the end the shipping damage people talk about marks it off my list. If Grizzly was closer to Cincinnati I am sure I would own a shop full of their tools. I have a Morticer from Grizzly that was shipped UPS and it is a wonderful tool.

[Allen Bookout]

One thing that occurs to me is that we mostly hear about the damaged shipments. We very seldom hear about the shipments that arrived intact. It could be that the percentage is very small that have actual damage. Otherwise companies like Grizzly would go bankrupt. I wonder what the percentage really is.

[Bill Fields]

My not-the-first experience w/ this was today--when my new (29.95 + SH of some amount that seemed HIGH) drill press table arrived.

I think many Creekers ordered this item based on the price--and it was a Griz product. (BTW--looks pretty good)

The box was trashed--the product seemed unharmed. It was in a box about the same footprint as the table, but the box had 4-5" of excess space in thickness--which they filled with those horrible styrofoam pellets. Huge mess.

This packing issue is industry-wide, and more.

Suppliers: Please spend a little more time with packaging engineering--it will surely pay off in the long run of customer/retailer satisfaction.

I'm in the bicycle industry, where 98% of bikes come out of the Far East--and due to the pressure of dissatisfied (more like totaly P.Oed) retailers, the shippers have spent time and money on highly engineered , but still cheap packaging.

In this industry the surest way to doom youself is to tick off WalMart.

They don't like your boxes? They reject the entire 5 boatloads, and you will pay them, and you will eat your product--and please never darken their door again--please smile on your way out.

Everyone should complain--this is fixable problem that needs some simple engineering.

Bill

[Vaughn McMillan]

...The box was trashed--the product seemed unharmed. It was in a box about the same footprint as the table, but the box had 4-5" of excess space in thickness--which they filled with those horrible styrofoam pellets. Huge mess...

I ordered the same drill press table, and mine box was also pretty beat up (no damage to the table), but the styrofoam inside was 1/2" to 1" sheets and blocks instead of the popcorn stuff. I wonder if they came from different plants. Pretty workable table, though, huh? I saw the exact same table on another web site a few nights ago and it was about $70.

- Vaughn

[Chris Padilla]

Go to bed, Vaughn!! Use West Coaster can "take over" the forum at this time of night! LOL...

[Andy Hoyt]

The thought has occured to me that another segment of Griz customers should speak up.

I'd be curious to know if folks who choose to pick up their new machines at one of Grizzly's three stores also experience damaged machines.

If the "picked up machines" do not have the same high frequency of damage then the LTL carriers between Grizzly and the customer are the likely culprit.

[Scott Donley]

OK, my turn. I drove forklift for 28 years and like to consider myself one of the good ones. We ran 84 dock doors, inbound/outbound. Some things to consider.
Management= 48 pallets to go on a trailer that only holds 26, and it all has to fit, and at 48,000 pounds, the weight at each axel has to be near perfect, your options are limited.
Equipment= Some of the older trailers ride like an old jackedup 4X4 on a logging road, add to that rough roads that lean to the right (water runoff ) you can get a lot of shifting on a long haul.
LTL Loads= I can't tell you how many times a driver shows up to drop off 4 pallets in the nose with 20 pallets behind it. No room on the dock for all 20 so you have to unload one side, than move it all over to get to the other side. Sometimes with less than an inch between pallets.
I could go on because there are a lot of variables ( ever try stopping a 7,000 pound FL with hard rubber tires an a wet floor ?:) ) There are a lot of trucks on the road and they were all loaded ( safely for the most part ) by a forklift driver. Think of that next time your next to that semi going down the freeway at 70 miles an hour.
End of rant, Scott, a retired forklift driver !