Fuji or Compressor

[Allen Grimes]

Is anybody, familiar with this paint sprayer?http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000UJI2G/ref=wl_it_dp/102-3909764-8266540?%5Fencoding=UTF8&colid=1RULI3C8WSRRL&coliid=I37MOMOWE2Z7QL&v=glance&n=228013

Im not sure whether I should go with a turbine system or just get a big air compressor, but I really like the portability of the turbine system and I like the look of this model, plus everybody on Amazon gave it 5 stars (though I dont really trust the people who write those reviews on Amazon).

Honestly I really do not want to go with a big AC, because I would like to keep my pistols portable too, for built-ins and what not, so is there any real benefit with going that route or should I just go turbine?

Also what other models of a turbine machine would you recomend?

[Jim Becker]

Allen, that's a good turbine system.

There are advantages to turbine systems and disadvantages. In the former catagory, they are designed for one thing...spraying finishes...and when well-engineered and paired with the right gun, they have very nice reduction of overspray and finish waste. They are also portable. On the down side, they sometimes provide more "heat" in the air than a finishing product might like, resulting in premature drying of the finish. It's something that can be dealt with, however, by using a retarder, etc. The other downside is that if you already have an acceptable compressor for spraying finishes, the turbine systems are quite expensive as compared to a mid-range or even high-end HPLV conversion gun.

[tod evans]

allan, there are several gravity fed conversion guns that will run on a smaller (not pancake) compressor. what do you want to accomplish with your system? how often are you going to be using it and for what products. tod

[Allen Grimes]

Thanks Jim, thats exactly the type of response I was looking for.

I dont own a compressor at all so the decision I'm trying to make is, do I get a big compressor and loose portabilty or do I get one of those PC nailer/compressor, combos and a turbine. I am leaning towards the turbine and PC combo, but I wanted to know if there were any real benefits (cost excluded) of the big compressor over the turbine system.

[Ian Barley]

Allen

I have the same model Fuji turbine setup. I love it. I have never been confident spraying finishes and when I got bad results was never sure where the error lay - too many variables for my taste. The Fuji is designed as an integrated system, so I know all the components work together. The warmer air flow helps with drying time which is relevant to my application. I don't use it that much but when I do I have no fiddling around. I believe that the expression which ends "...when you prise it from my cold dead hands" would best sum up how I feel about this tool.

Although it is quite a lot of money I think it is excellent value - mine paid for itself on the first job I used it on.

If you do get it invest in the extension whip hose. Makes work a little lighter and makes the mixing air just a little cooler.

[Allen Grimes]

allan, there are several gravity fed conversion guns that will run on a smaller (not pancake) compressor. what do you want to accomplish with your system? how often are you going to be using it and for what products. todTod , I plan on doing a lot of built-ins and stuff like that. So I need portable nailers at the very least. But I would also like to use the paint sprayer for everything I can, so portability for that would also be a plus.

Really what Im asking is, is there a good reason to choose compressors over turnbine other than price?

[Allen Grimes]

Allen

I have the same model Fuji turbine setup. I love it. I have never been confident spraying finishes and when I got bad results was never sure where the error lay - too many variables for my taste. The Fuji is designed as an integrated system, so I know all the components work together. The warmer air flow helps with drying time which is relevant to my application. I don't use it that much but when I do I have no fiddling around. I believe that the expression which ends "...when you prise it from my cold dead hands" would best sum up how I feel about this tool.

Although it is quite a lot of money I think it is excellent value - mine paid for itself on the first job I used it on.

If you do get it invest in the extension whip hose. Makes work a little lighter and makes the mixing air just a little cooler.Thanks Ian, that was very helpful, I am leaning towards this system anyway, but I just like to make informed decisions. I dont like to regret my purchases.

[Gil Mitchell]

Allen

I have the same model Fuji turbine setup. I love it. I have never been confident spraying finishes and when I got bad results was never sure where the error lay - too many variables for my taste. The Fuji is designed as an integrated system, so I know all the components work together. The warmer air flow helps with drying time which is relevant to my application. I don't use it that much but when I do I have no fiddling around. I believe that the expression which ends "...when you prise it from my cold dead hands" would best sum up how I feel about this tool.

Although it is quite a lot of money I think it is excellent value - mine paid for itself on the first job I used it on.

If you do get it invest in the extension whip hose. Makes work a little lighter and makes the mixing air just a little cooler. I have the same set up and everything Ian said I have to agree with

[Tim Sproul]

I just ordered the Asturo Eco/SSP from Jeff at homesteadfinishing.com. I want to shoot Target Coatings so he set me up properly with pressure pot and needle/nozzle.

I read in some other forums where they were running this gun and similar cfm requirement guns from a twin stack compressor. Great for me. That's what I use in the shop and when I go to install. I don't do this as a pro so my biggest finishing jobs might require me to shoot 1/2 gallon at most - conjecture since I've only thus far sprayed shellac with a touch-up gun I have.

From the pictures I've seen, the 4 stage turbine units aren't exactly small so their portability may not be any better than a portable compressor....though I suspect they don't weigh as much.

You might call Jeff and talk to him. I don't think he'll pressure you to a conversion hvlp because he doesn't sell the Fuji. I was set to get a $30 in-line water filter. He told me to pass because I'm shooting water-based and I'd only need an in-line water filter if it is really really humid. I'd wager his margin is pretty good on the accessories so that speaks good for his honesty.

[Roger Reynolds]

I recently got the Q3 pro version of this system and am shooting Target Coatings water based products. So far I am very happy with the results.

[Ian Barley]

- From the pictures I've seen, the 4 stage turbine units aren't exactly small so their portability may not be any better than a portable compressor....though I suspect they don't weigh as much.

Turbine box is about 15in square from memory - I would guess the weight at around 15lb. Major factor for me is noise. Turbine makes a noise kinda like a hairdryer/small vacuum cleaner. It is in a range where it is bearable. I always think compressor noise is one of the most obtrusive - mine always sound like a bag of hammers being thrown around and when it is working hard it wears me out real quick.

[Richard Wolf]

I also have the Q4 system. The Q stands for quiet and this system is not that quiet so the standard must be pretty loud. It is expansive but works great. As Ian said, make sure you get the whip, it is difficult to use without. Also if you plan on shooting heavy material, purchase a #5 or #6 tip.

Richard

[tod evans]

Tod , I plan on doing a lot of built-ins and stuff like that. So I need portable nailers at the very least. But I would also like to use the paint sprayer for everything I can, so portability for that would also be a plus.

Really what Im asking is, is there a good reason to choose compressors over turnbine other than price?

allan, when dissregarding price the conversion guns available atomize finishes better than the turbine driven guns. the paint industry as a whole has never accepted turbine equipment for this reason. there are several good gravity fed guns on the market that will run off of the 17gal quincy jobsite compressor. i own one of these compressors and it is quiet enough to talk over standing right next to it, not one of the 12k rpm buzzer types, it`s a chugga-chugga cast iron pump. again if money is no object sata makes some of the best finishing equipment on the planet just ask at any body shop. when it comes to spraying finishes hobbiest woodworkers are going to have a different perspective than auto body shops, if you want professional results ask the guys who do it for a living........02 tod

[Allen Grimes]

Well Tod, you convinced me to take another look at the conversion systems and now, Im in a worse situation than before. Not only have I been looking at guns and what not Ive been reading whatever I can get my hands on on the subject and it looks like conversion is the way to go.

The good news is that portability will not be sacrificed completely, the bad news is now I have to research a bunch of different crap as opposed to just one package.

I've been researching guns and I did in fact find out that Sata is highly recommended, and I think I might have found the gun that is right for me, but I need to do a lot of compairing and learning before I make a decision.

My problem is finding a good compressor. I was looking at some PC models, but I cant find any to compare it too, any recomendations?

Also, some compressors say oil free, does that mean I dont need an oil/water seperator or do I need it anyway?

I was really into the Q4 until I read on the Fuji site that painting with the #5 or #6 cap systems that there might be some texture. What I am looking for is the best finish possible, portability is secondary, so that turned me off.

Tod as for your statement about money not being an object for me, that is the exact opposite of the truth, money is an definately an object. I dont want to waste any if I dont have to. That is why I am willing to spend a little more in this case to get what I want. Finishing to me, is the most important part of the process and its not something that I want to skimp on.

[Tim Sproul]

Tod as for your statement about money not being an object for me, that is the exact opposite of the truth, money is an definately an object. I dont want to waste any if I dont have to. That is why I am willing to spend a little more in this case to get what I want. Finishing to me, is the most important part of the process and its not something that I want to skimp on.


Not Tod but I've recently been researching this in depth so I'll offer up my take on the information I was able to find.

There is no best gun for all finishes. If you use primary one type of finish, then you need to look at the guns that work best for that finish.

What finish do you use or plan on using?

I just ordered an Asturo ECO/SSP from Jeff Jewitt. I'm wanting to spray water-based finishes - Target Coatings and/or Fuhr - on furniture. I only have a small twin stack compressor from Porter Cable. Because of the combination of the relatively low cfm requirements of the ECO/SSP AND my need for spraying only every now and then and single pieces of furniture at a time....that gun makes sense for me. I'm already hooked on conversion hvlp from using a small touch up gun - the Walcom STM.

IF I needed to spray more often, I'd probably get a turbine unit - the Fuji Q4Pro or similar.

One work around for infrequent spraying is to get a 10 gallon or so air tank and put that into the compressed air system....it gives a 'buffer' of air volume to allow you to spray for longer periods of time. IIRC, one or more fellows on Taunton's forum reported they had good success with a low cfm conversion gun doing this.

I understand about the money thing. I've wasted too much $$$ on cheap tools....only to try and sell them for a loss or give them away and then spend the dinero on a high quality/high price tag tool. I'd probably be ahead a few thousand dollars if I'd just bucked up the big bucks right from the get-go!

[Allen Grimes]

I need a system that can do it all. Tim. I plan on having a furniture store in the future (right now I have a small clothing store), so I will have to use paints as well as oil/water based finishes. I will probably need to buy more than one gun, but I dont want to buy a turbine system if I can get better results with conversion guns.

I have a lot of family and friends that I are waiting on me to get situated so I can start building them stuff, I have already designed specific pieces for a few people, and most of them want painted furniture. Needless to say a good gun for painting is a high priority.

Still Im leaving all my options open, until I can find the system that is the best for me.

Oh and as for my comment about finishing being the most important part of the proccess to me. I meant the building proccess. The design proccess is most important in my opinion.

[Tim Sproul]

I need a system that can do it all.


I'd go conversion hvlp. My searching found a lot more gun options for compressor based spraying versus turbine. You have a large number of choices for spraying small amounts - touch up guns - to spraying an entire house - 5 gallon pressure pots with agitators. My searching was a bit skewed so hopefully someone with more experience will pipe up about gun choices for turbine units.

My guess is that going conversion or turbine is kinda like trying to decide between a Fein vac or a Festool. As long as you choose a high quality tool, it will work superbly for you. Go cheap and you'll have the associated compromises or lack of bells-and-whistles, depending on your point of view. There are, of course, a bevy of choices in between.

Air compressors have lots of other good functions in the shop. Pneumatic fasteners for jigs and upholstery and moldings....blowing out dust from mortises and of course, filling LOML's auto tires :).

[Allen Grimes]

Tim,

First of all, thanks for your help, I appreciate it very much.

Anyway, I look at the tool in question, before I decide how important the quality is. For example, for an 8" Jointer I wont go all out trying to get the best one on the market. On the other hand, when it comes to a paint sprayer, I want the best. I went cheap for a 14" Band Saw (Grizzly G0555), but when I buy a big one, I wont hold back, the MM24 is the BS I got my eye on, but thats a couple years down the road.

Anyway, my point is I try to make the best decision I can, considering money and quality. When I bought my table saw, I was in a rushed situation and bought a table saw that I didnt want. If I could do it all over again I wouldn't have bought a table saw at all until I could afford a europeon slider. Not that the table saw I got is no good, its just that I, made a hasty decision that I wouldn't have made if I considered my options a little better.

Now I try to research my purchases, a few months in advance, so I don't do anything like that again.

[tod evans]

allen, run the other way from the portercable line of compressors! quincy makes two different ones that come to mind for jobsite use both use a 17 gal tank. the one i use is a two lung single stage, it`s very quiet for a compressor. the other sits on the same tank but is a four lung two stage.the two stage isn`t as quiet but delivers more cfm. if you go with a smaller conversion gun the single stage will do you well.sata has some new technology out targeted at the cabinet finisher but i haven`t driven it?????back to compressors i strongly recomend the quincy line, they build `em from the ground up in quincy illinois and will not deal with the box stores period! the single stage i own will carry 3 framing guns no problem. you will have to deal with moisture whatever unit you choose and the 29.95 hf trap ain`t gonna cut it.....an auto paint store will have a colessing (sp) filter by motorgard that is an excellent primary filter. i also use the motorgard "pumpkins" at the gun. see the other spraygun thread by larry. if you have any questions shoot me a pm and i`ll give you my cell. tod

[Allen Grimes]

Tod, where did you buy your AC and how much did it cost you? So far, I havent been able to find an online dealer that carries their products.

I decided that I need to buy a few more books on finishing so I can learn a little more about spray systems and what makes which better than the other, but I am still interested in your suggestions or any other suggestions anybody else might have, for that matter.

Can anybody explain why conversion guns atomize finishes better?

I have a lot to learn about this before I go spending my money so I think this is going to take me a while, but thanks to everybody who has helped me so far.

Any book suggestions would also be greatly appreciated.

[tod evans]

allen, quincy is one of the "good" companies left! they use local distributors who deal in air compressors and also service them. they do have internet presence but i seriously doubt you`ll be able to price shop on the net.my jobsite unit retails for around 8 bills, you should be able to do better locally....as for the physics involved in paint atomization.....wrong guy here! try phoning jeff at homestead?? i`ve never spoke to the man but general consensus here is that he knows his stuff. start your research by going to your local paint and body shops, painters are just like woodworkers and love to talk tools. after a few shops you`ll notice the same theme and probably the same brand names. pay attention! the units the shops use will be servicable locally, this is really important when you`re in a clients house and their child/dog/cat has just knocked your gun to the floor ruining the air nozzle.......02 tod

[Allen Grimes]

Hey thanks, Tod, you're a helpful guy.

I decided that I'm going to do a lot of studying to figure this out. I figure that this is something that I dont want to mess up on and I got a little time before I will buy the thing so I decided to read everything I can on the subject and talk to all the pros that will talk to me, until I am a pro (at least in the knowledge area). Then I will make my purchases.

By the way, I did find an online dealer that carries Quincy Compressors, but they are selling a 17 gallon 8hp for 1500 dollars, to make matters worse, this is a company that I had lots of problems with in the past when I made a purchase from them. But I only checked them out of curiosity, not that I would ever buy anything from them ever again.

Anyway, I will let you know when I make a decision since and take pics when I get the goods. Thanks agian for the continued help.

[tod evans]

allen, 8hp is a gas compressor and the two stage one too boot. that`s a fair price for that unit but if you`ve had bad luck with that company steer clear...the one i use is 1 1/2 hp switchable 110-220 single stage.
http://www.quincycompressor.com/products/?sub=42&subsub=43

here`s a link, but no photo of the unit i use, the pump is the same as on the pictured gas unit. tod

[Jay T. Marlin]

Does anyone have direct experience with both the Fuji and the Apollo 1000 unit? How do they compare? I'm currently using an HVLP/compressor but am thinking about relocating my finishing booth and I don't want to drag a 100 foot air hose.

[Per Swenson]

Hello all,

'Nother vote for the Q4.

90% of my work is on installs.

So I listened to Ian. I am also extremly fond of both Quiet

and transportability. See here http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=18716&highlight=fuji

I have absolutely no regrets with this unit.

And Ian, thanks again.

Per

[Allen Grimes]

Hey Per,

Thanks for the feedback, I really really like the look of that Q4 system, but after looking at some of the conversion guns I decided that I like those too.

After taking a long hard look at both systems, I realized that I dont know nearly enough about either one of them to make a good decision, so I decided to study up and learn as much as I can about both systems before I make any decisions on which system I should buy.