Been Car shopping lately?

[Perry Holbrook]

It's a crazy world in the car sales business now. We had a lease due to expire soon, so went looking for the next ride. Turns out we got cash offers for a 2 1/2 year old sedan that were very, very close to the original MSRP and almost twice as much as the residual buy out. We basically got all payments made on the lease (monthly and up front) returned to us, crazy. Used the car for 30 months, 33K miles, changed oil, rotated tires and bought gas and got our money back.

Just thought it may help if you weren't aware of what is going on and you may be considering a change.

Perry

[Jim Koepke]

Did you get another vehicle?

There is currently a shortage of vehicles for dealers to sell. That means if they have a car to sell they don't have to do much dealing to find someone to buy it at full price or more.

Computer chips for vehicle electronics are scarce on the world market.

My old '94 Dodge truck was listed on Craigslist. Candy thought my asking price was a pipe dream. It did have problems with the the heater stuck on, the windshield wipers didn't work, radio, and mysterious stalling. The problems were listed in the ad. The truck was out of our yard in less than two hours. Four people had to be notified that it sold to the first respondent.

jtk

[Rick Potter]

Yeah, but did you get the new one yet??

I have been trying to buy a new Ford Maverick mini truck. HAH! Dealers have a few...for 5K over list. You can't order a '22 because they have sold out all the orders for the year. Wait until June, and orders for the '23 models will start.

Looks like I will be waiting a while. I sold my old truck to a grandson, and when I mention I may need to borrow it occasionally, he gives me the snake eye, like 'you sure you know how to drive it old man'. I mention that I have managed to do that since '05, punk kid, and you WILL loan it to me or I will tell your daddy. Oops, never mind, family dynamic.

I can always cut the roof off the family mini van, but it is going up in value too.

In reality, I think I may try to find a dealer that will sell me a stripped Maverick for list.. the way things are going, I will probably not lose much if I sell it in two years.

Good luck finding yours, Perry.

[Kev Williams]

I've gifted my wife with these 2 fine automobiles-
470708
- the '89 on the right in 1995, and the '13 on the left in 2015, presents for her 40th and 60th birthdays.
She likes the '89 better, it's smaller, and the '13 is too big, and wayyy too fast (as if there is such a thing ;) )

The '89 was parked for several years but she's back up and running fine after a complete fuel system change last summer. She's in need of some door and window gaskets and a few other small items, otherwise she's pristine. Bone stock, 102k miles...
The '13 needs nothing but to be driven. Had 24k-something miles when I bought her, is still under 27k now. Absolute blast to drive. Right now, I can sell it for probably $2k more than I paid for it. But it's not mine, and the wife doesn't want me to sell it.

Thing is, she doesn't drive any more. Ah, well. At least I get to drive them! :D

[Perry Holbrook]

Local dealer had zero new cars, but we had told the salesman to call us when the next truck comes in. We actually got a good deal on the new one. Most dealers are selling new at 5% to 10% over list but not this dealer. Plus he threw in complete bumper to bumper coverage for 10yrs/100K miles and very, very low interest rates.

Perry

[John K Jordan]

I know it’s been a bad time to shop but i’ve been looking for a new truck. The lots are mostly empty. May have to pay high dollar for a used one. Or a far more practical solution, spend a bit to fix up the ‘99 Dodge 2500. The diesel engine is fine, 145k on it. I caught the new truck bug but it feels like it might be clearing up.

[Scott Clausen]

This makes me wonder, it has been years since I leased a car, is the purchase value of the car spelled out in the lease agreement? Or is it what the dealer sees as the "current value".

[Rich Engelhardt]

We take our dogs to day care three times a week so they can socialize with other dogs. (please...my wife puts up with my hobbies and I put up with her & her hounds :D )..

We usually stop at Aldi's when we take the dogs to day care - - Aldi's is located right next to a Chevy dealer.

Over the last year, I've watched the dealer's inventory shrink down. All they have left on the lot is a couple of pick up trucks. Everything else is gone. No new/no used. Empty showroom. They even cut their hours operation.

[Perry Holbrook]

This makes me wonder, it has been years since I leased a car, is the purchase value of the car spelled out in the lease agreement? Or is it what the dealer sees as the "current value".

The buy out amount, called the residual, is set up front and is based on historical data and expected mileage. Going over the stated mileage increases the buy out number. In our case we did the lease for 15K miles yearly. Planned to turn the car in at 36 months with 45K miles and was happy with that. Sure turned out a lot better.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Same for commercial vehicles. I gave up when prices on the NPR and Fuso went sky high. I found a military surplus on the cheap, and I love it. Only 3500 miles and it has a CAT 3111 with 812 foot pounds of torque. I paid 1/2 of the cost of a used NPR. Parts are actually readily available for it. I talked to a commercial dealer who said he’s paying more for used than what he used to sell them for, just to get inventory.
470731

[Stan Calow]

I was at my Toyota dealer yesterday for routine service. The sales floor had only one new car, and several used cars on it.

[Dave Fritz]

Same for recreational vehicles and implements.

[Scott Clausen]

Same for recreational vehicles and implements.

I have suspected that as all of the folks who bought RV's at the start of the pandemic will start to tire of having to pay to store the things and opt to sell. There may be some bargains down the road.

[Kev Williams]

Dumb question, if mfr's and dealers have no new cars to sell, why is it nearly 50% of TV commercials are for new cars? ;)

[Michael Weber]

Thought about upgrading my 2003 very basic white 4 cylinder Tacoma for a newer 6 cylinder model. When I started looking at prices for ANY year :eek:I gave up. My little Taco truck with 73000 miles looks pretty good right now :rolleyes:. Thinking about having it repainted.

[Jim Becker]

This is about the worst time ever to "have" to buy a vehicle. But there can also be opportunities if one can garner one of the very high offers from places like CarMax, Carvana, etc., that balances both the higher price to be paid for a new vehicle as well as the loss of any sales tax advantage available in some states with a trade-in. If you only like to buy used vehicles...this is truly a horrible time for you for sure! New may very well be the better deal. My advise, unless you have an unbelievable offer on existing, wait another year or so until supply chain calms and manufacturing gets back to something "more like prior normal".

Bottom line...do the math carefully!

[Don Orr]

Perry, glad to hear you are so pleased with your recent dealings. Around here there seems to be lots of available vehicles on the lots as I drive around. Maybe not as many as before but plenty to choose from. Trucks are certainly available. No idea on prices as I am not currently in the market.

[Nathan Johnson]

I bought my 2015 LaCrosse in 2019 and just traded in September. I "upgraded" to a 2018 Enclave.
Dealer had been sitting on the Enclave for a few months and it was about $5k below other comparables. And it was the exact color and package i wanted. When they offered me almost what I paid for the LaCrosse it became a no-brainer.

[Jason Roehl]

It's a crazy world in the car sales business now. We had a lease due to expire soon, so went looking for the next ride. Turns out we got cash offers for a 2 1/2 year old sedan that were very, very close to the original MSRP and almost twice as much as the residual buy out. We basically got all payments made on the lease (monthly and up front) returned to us, crazy. Used the car for 30 months, 33K miles, changed oil, rotated tires and bought gas and got our money back.

Just thought it may help if you weren't aware of what is going on and you may be considering a change.

Perry

With inflation and scarcity in the new- and used-car markets, you didn’t really get your money back…

[roger wiegand]

I've got a car on order and the expected delivery date keeps moving, by many months at a time-- originally next October, then February, back to November, and now end of March. It suggests chaos in the production pipeline. I'm not holding my breath, and am keeping my Mini together with duct tape and baling wire.

[Perry Holbrook]

Hey Jason, if you saw the actual numbers you may not have said that. But I do agree that cash is worth less than it was a couple of years ago.

[Jim Koepke]

With inflation and scarcity in the new- and used-car markets, you didn’t really get your money back…

No, they got someone else's money back. :D

jtk

[Ron Selzer]

Totaled a 2015 Mustang V6, auto, Orange, no accidents, original owner when an idiot ran a stop sign, 12-5-2021. Insurance gave me a check for 20k, not an identical one available on autotrader.com in the US at that time, other colors were running 22k and up
Got an offer from a local dealer in the mail for 15.5k last week for it.
Bought a 2018 Ford Edge SEL 26k miles, 3 hrs away for 30k at a Chevy dealer. Wife has been wanting an SUV but would not trade the Mustang in as it was her first new car and I had bought it for her. She didn't believe I bought it until I picked her from a doctors appt in it. The Edge is Silver a color my wife dislikes, it has almost all options so she puts up with it as it was all I could find at that time in 300 miles. Wanted V6, dual climate control, heated seats, adaptive cruise control, remote start. Has lots more, sunroof all the way back that Sophia, English Mastiff, still is not used to yet. Heated steering wheel that my wife says is now a necessity, heated mirrors, gps, etc
Could not find exactly what we wanted in the short time we had, however found a better deal that thought we could at this time.
Ron

[Scott Kilroy]

I've been looking at the Maverick but haven't been able to find one (I'm in the New York area). Personally I don't think it's worth 5k over list but that's me.

[Doug Garson]

Totaled a 2015 Mustang V6, auto, Orange, no accidents, original owner when an idiot ran a stop sign, 12-5-2021. Insurance gave me a check for 20k, not an identical one available on autotrader.com in the US at that time, other colors were running 22k and up
Got an offer from a local dealer in the mail for 15.5k last week for it.
Bought a 2018 Ford Edge SEL 26k miles, 3 hrs away for 30k at a Chevy dealer. Wife has been wanting an SUV but would not trade the Mustang in as it was her first new car and I had bought it for her. She didn't believe I bought it until I picked her from a doctors appt in it. The Edge is Silver a color my wife dislikes, it has almost all options so she puts up with it as it was all I could find at that time in 300 miles. Wanted V6, dual climate control, heated seats, adaptive cruise control, remote start. Has lots more, sunroof all the way back that Sophia, English Mastiff, still is not used to yet. Heated steering wheel that my wife says is now a necessity, heated mirrors, gps, etc
Could not find exactly what we wanted in the short time we had, however found a better deal that thought we could at this time.
Ron
Not sure I understand. Your car was totalled, insurance gave you $20k and you kept the car and then a dealer offered you $15 for the wreck? What am I missing?

[Myk Rian]

Not sure I understand. Your car was totalled, insurance gave you $20k and you kept the car and then a dealer offered you $15 for the wreck? What am I missing?

After the insurance payoff you can keep the vehicle. They won't tell you that.

[Brian Elfert]

Sure, you can keep the vehicle, but they deduct it from your payoff. At minimum a car is worth a few hundred dollars as scrap. The cars only hit in the front or back are often sold to rebuilders who cut two crashed cars in half and put the two good halves back together. Cars that are not rebuildable may have plenty of good parts to sell.

[Jim Koepke]

After the insurance payoff you can keep the vehicle. They won't tell you that.

Not sure, this may be a different situation from one state to another.

jtk

[Ron Selzer]

Not sure I understand. Your car was totalled, insurance gave you $20k and you kept the car and then a dealer offered you $15 for the wreck? What am I missing?

I signed the title over to insurance company, car was gone.
Found it interesting that a local dealer sent me a letter trying to buy the car, not knowing it was now totaled for 5k less and making a big deal out of how much they were willing to pay for it.
Ron

[Roger Feeley]

We have a 2014 Chrysler Town & Country that we got from CarMax. The extended warranty will expire next year. I researched getting another extended warranty when this on expires. We can get bumper to bumper coverage for a whole lot less than a car payment. So that’s how we will ride out this mess.

[Doug Garson]

I signed the title over to insurance company, car was gone.
Found it interesting that a local dealer sent me a letter trying to buy the car, not knowing it was now totaled for 5k less and making a big deal out of how much they were willing to pay for it.
Ron
Thanks for clarifying, sounds like the insurance payment was reasonable, the dealer can't offer full market value since they plan to resell it for market value and make a profit.

[Kev Williams]

This ad just popped up on another website, from a local Chevy dealer--
473399

--Seriously? A 6 year old 1/2 ton Ford they're asking north of $30k-? I'd almost bet it left the dealer brand new in 2016 for less than that...

crazy-

[Jim Koepke]

This ad just popped up on another website, from a local Chevy dealer--
473399

--Seriously? A 6 year old 1/2 ton Ford they're asking north of $30k-? I'd almost bet it left the dealer brand new in 2016 for less than that...

crazy-

A quick Googling indicates for a base model this is true:

473400

It will likely be like this a bit longer due to supply chain issues for computer chips and other items.

Soon many vehicles will become electric. This may cause another increase in prices for those who wish to remain users of fossil fuel.

jtk

[Stan Calow]

I saw a news report this week that said Ford was shutting down 7-8 plants in the US because of chip shortage. Only one to stay open is the Transit line, which is here in KC, but at reduced capacity.

[Rob Luter]

I just got a new car. I felt fortunate I only paid MSRP. They took a trade even though it was the subject of a recall with no remedy available yet and didn’t really lowball that much. I’m glad it’s over.

[Jim Becker]

I just got a new car. I felt fortunate I only paid MSRP. They took a trade even though it was the subject of a recall with no remedy available yet and didn’t really lowball that much. I’m glad it’s over.
That's good the dealer played ball with you. A number of Subaru Ascent owners wanting to trade are running into issues because of an open recall that's not yet fully published and still likely a month away from the required software fix.

[Mike Chance in Iowa]

On a whim, a friend posted his 2012 Toyota x-cab pickup on CL for an outrageously high price. The pickup had no frills and roughly 300k miles on it. It sold for his asking price within a matter of hours.

[Kris Cook]

I had a 2015 3/4T Chevy HD 2500 with a gas motor that I bought used in 2017. The truck had 112,000 miles on it when I traded it, and I bought it with fairly high miles.

I started thinking about the resale value down the road and the miles that would be on the truck when I retire a few years down the road.

I looked at what they were getting for trucks like mine with the same miles and then started looking at new Duramax diesels as a replacement. I pull a pretty heavy camper sometimes and know the resale on the diesel is going to be better down the road.

Anyway, I saw some new diesels at Dave Smith Motors which is a high volume dealer not too far from me. Every truck they had listed on their website was "spoken for" which was aggravating, as they were represented as available. They told me I could order a truck and it would be available in January or February (This was is October).

The next day after emailing with them I checked back at our local dealer and saw a 2022 Duramax that I hadn't seen before. I called the dealer and the salesman said - that one is spoken for but I have its twin that is available. I told him to put my name on it. I went down the next day and they gave me $4,000 less than I paid originally for my '15, on trade.

I don't know if my situation is typical. I see the Chevy lot is still pretty bare. I got lucky I think finding an available truck, and am happy with the price I paid. I see my old truck is still on their lot (for almost $10k more than they gave me). I think the dealers can get greedy on the used vehicles but I they are limited (I believe) on what they can sell a new one for.

[Jim Koepke]

Anyway, I saw some new diesels at Dave Smith Motors which is a high volume dealer not too far from me. Every truck they had listed on their website was "spoken for" which was aggravating, as they were represented as available.

Many years ago in the days of live TV a car dealer (in Los Angeles if my memory is working) would offer cars at ridiculous prices in his commercials. Of course they would already be sold when anyone showed up asking for them. One guy had the bright idea to set up near by watching programs on which he advertised and waiting. When the car lot's commercial came on live and a car and price was mentioned he ran up to him live and said, "I'll take it."

jtk

[Brian Elfert]

I drove by a small town Chevrolet dealer a couple of weeks ago and they had like eight cars total on the lot. They had them in one widely spaced row across the middle of the parking lot.

[Curt Harms]

I've kind of followed this thread and am curious. I drive by a good sized Ford dealer in Doylestown, PA. frequently. His lots are full.

[Jim Becker]

I've kind of followed this thread and am curious. I drive by a good sized Ford dealer in Doylestown, PA. frequently. His lots are full.
The Beans organization is pretty much a high volume retailer for all or nearly all the brands they offer. That's very helpful at the present time when it comes to allocation. Small dealers, like the one Brian just mentioned, are in a really disadvantageous situation right now since even in normal times, their allocations are sparse due to normal sales patterns. The Thompson and Keanan organizations are also in relatively good shape as they also do volume business.

[Brian Elfert]

I've kind of followed this thread and am curious. I drive by a good sized Ford dealer in Doylestown, PA. frequently. His lots are full.

Maybe Ford is doing better than GM. Ford has certainly had their share of issues like thousands of pickups parked outdoors waiting for electronics so they could be shipped.

[Curt Harms]

Maybe Ford is doing better than GM. Ford has certainly had their share of issues like thousands of pickups parked outdoors waiting for electronics so they could be shipped.

Brian, I know you're in the IT biz so you probably know about this. I'm not in that biz but follow it as a hobbyist. According to some publications, IC manufacturing investment has followed the latest, greatest, sexiest and most profitable. Capacity for old boring but still widely used chips has languished even as vehicles use ever more electronics. Guess what kind of chips are used in motor vehicles? Yup, the old boring kind. Capacity is being added but building a chip fab is neither quick nor cheap.

[Brian Elfert]

Brian, I know you're in the IT biz so you probably know about this. I'm not in that biz but follow it as a hobbyist. According to some publications, IC manufacturing investment has followed the latest, greatest, sexiest and most profitable. Capacity for old boring but still widely used chips has languished even as vehicles use ever more electronics. Guess what kind of chips are used in motor vehicles? Yup, the old boring kind. Capacity is being added but building a chip fab is neither quick nor cheap.

I work in IT, but nothing to do with chips or any of that. The only thing I know is some IT equipment we have ordered has taken a long time to get. I don't know if the equipment was delayed due to chips, shipping, demand, or a combination of the three.

All I know about the chip situation in general is what anyone can read on the web.

[Roger Feeley]

We are hunkering down waiting for better prices. Our solution is extended warranties. Our minivan is a 2014 and the CarMax extended warranty runs out next November. I talked with some other warranty companies and we can easily get another three years of bumper to bumper coverage.

[Jim Becker]

We are hunkering down waiting for better prices. Our solution is extended warranties. Our minivan is a 2014 and the CarMax extended warranty runs out next November. I talked with some other warranty companies and we can easily get another three years of bumper to bumper coverage.

Roger, just be sure you carefully check out any company you are considering for an extended service contract (they are not "warranties" legally...they are technically insurance) to be sure they actually pay claims, etc. There are a lot of horror stories...

[Dave Lehnert]

Roger, just be sure you carefully check out any company you are considering for an extended service contract (they are not "warranties" legally...they are technically insurance) to be sure they actually pay claims, etc. There are a lot of horror stories...


I have an extended warranty I purchased with my SUV new. I had a claim that was clearly a power train part. They denied the claim because the part was dirty/plugged up. That the reason the part goes bad in the first place. Car was always serviced as it should. In fact the dealer called me once saying I was having my oil changed too often. I said change it anyway.

Worked with a guy who found out his extended warranty did not cover any internal parts.

[Dave Lehnert]

Brian, I know you're in the IT biz so you probably know about this. I'm not in that biz but follow it as a hobbyist. According to some publications, IC manufacturing investment has followed the latest, greatest, sexiest and most profitable. Capacity for old boring but still widely used chips has languished even as vehicles use ever more electronics. Guess what kind of chips are used in motor vehicles? Yup, the old boring kind. Capacity is being added but building a chip fab is neither quick nor cheap.


Ohio is working on it.
https://time.com/6140476/intel-building-factory-ohio/

[Kris Cook]

Ohio is working on it.
https://time.com/6140476/intel-building-factory-ohio/

That is good news in a lot of ways.

[Brian Elfert]

As far as extended warranties go you're usually better off putting that same amount of money into a savings account to pay for repairs. You'll typically have all or most of your money still in the savings account at the time the warranty would have expired. There are certain models of vehicles that are prone to major repairs where it might make sense to buy the extended warranty.

[Stan Calow]

Article in today's Wall Street Journal (02/09) about Ford and GM cracking down on dealers charging more than MSRP on new vehicles.

[Jim Becker]

Article in today's Wall Street Journal (02/09) about Ford and GM cracking down on dealers charging more than MSRP on new vehicles.

Interesting...I wonder just how much they can do about that since dealers are independent businesses and MSRP is "manufacturer's suggested retail price". I'll have to read that article. I do personally believe that there are too many dealers that are taking big advantage of folks as there is some percentage of buyers who are unfortunately in a position that they have to buy a vehicle due to circumstance. Painful...

[Dwayne Watt]

MSRP works both ways, over and under listed sticker price. However, I can see how the corporations might view their brand image being tarnished by predatory dealers upcharging by huge numbers. Of course, they might simply be irritated that the dealer is making the money rather than the producer themselves.
The real customer disservice(?) comes from the huge prices on used cars. Buying a new vehicle right now is not bad IF you can find what you want and are selling a decent (or even not so decent) car. The net cost is not much different than years past. Buying a pre-owned car straight out remains an expensive proposition right now. The folks that are making out well are the ones coming off a lease with a much higher residual value than was forecast 3-4 years ago. They can buy the car at a market discount per their lease agreement and keep it, or turn around and sell for a profit (see buying new cars).

[Kev Williams]

My stepson totaled his Hyundai about a month ago (other driver's fault thankfully) and has been shopping. I forget the exact verbiage but he said the dealers were jacking new prices at least $3000 over sticker and calling it something like a 'fair market value adjustment'.
I have another name for it... 473541

[Jim Koepke]

We are hunkering down waiting for better prices. Our solution is extended warranties. Our minivan is a 2014 and the CarMax extended warranty runs out next November. I talked with some other warranty companies and we can easily get another three years of bumper to bumper coverage.

If you haven't been getting a lot of phone calls about car warrantees, you are a most fortunate person.

jtk

[Curt Harms]

If you haven't been getting a lot of phone calls about car warrantees, you are a most fortunate person.

jtk

That's a fact. NoMoRobo has been hearing from me a lot, reporting what I regard as scam calls.

[Michael Drew]

I've been on a 3 year, new car buying cycle for at least thirty years now. About every three years, I buy a new rig. I have a small amount of each paycheck go into a seperate account that covers depreciation gap of the current vehicle's selling price, and the price of the new vehicle. I had planned to order a new rig and pick it up this spring. That's proving difficult, if not impossible. GM is not taking orders on 'new' trucks. They will let you 'reserve' one, but you can not order one, unless it is what they are calling a 2022 "limited" edition. This limited model is nothing more than a 2021 that they are selling as a 2022. Dodge (Ram), have a supply chain problem as well. You have to take whatever is on the lot. Can't order a new truck.

I suspect that when this supply chain problem resolves itself, there will be some serious inventory issues (a flood of new vehicles available), and it will be a good time to buy. Whenever that time may come, is hard to predict.

[Rob Luter]

I've been on a 3 year, new car buying cycle for at least thirty years now. About every three years, I buy a new rig. I have a small amount of each paycheck go into a seperate account that covers depreciation gap of the current vehicle's selling price, and the price of the new vehicle. I had planned to order a new rig and pick it up this spring. That's proving difficult, if not impossible. GM is not taking orders on 'new' trucks. They will let you 'reserve' one, but you can not order one, unless it is what they are calling a 2022 "limited" edition. This limited model is nothing more than a 2021 that they are selling as a 2022. Dodge (Ram), have a supply chain problem as well. You have to take whatever is on the lot. Can't order a new truck.

I suspect that when this supply chain problem resolves itself, there will be some serious inventory issues (a flood of new vehicles available), and it will be a good time to buy. Whenever that time may come, is hard to predict.

I use the same approach but space it out a bit. Years ago when the last car payment was made I kept making them to the bank account while I drove the car another 5 years. When you're able to just write a check for the car it opens up some options.