repair a broken leg on a nice sideboard

[Maurice Mcmurry]

New member Maurice McMurry, this is my first started thread. I get to repair a broken leg on a nice sideboard this week. The owners brought it with them when they moved from the UK to the USA in the 1970s. I was asked today if I would put some screws in to fix it. I brought the legs section home and will be thinking about what to do. I am considering adding some wood or steel in places that don't show. I also might try to trickle thin superglue into loose joints. Is super glue a no-no in the furniture world? I do not want to do a hack job. -Maurice

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[Rick Whitehead]

No, I wouldn't use super glue.
First, I'd check to see if the other leg joints are loose. If they're tight, I'd leave them alone.If they are loose, then I'd try to remove the side leg assemblies from the stretchers, and then re-glue them.
The broken leg looks like it is a clean break, so it should re-glue nicely.I'd carefully scrape off any old glue and re-glue with hot hide glue, gluing it up in a warm environment.
Hope this helps.
Rick

[Patrick McCarthy]

Tend to agree with Rick. Appears to be great candidate for glue. I would be reticent to use screws. I would consider evaluating the top dowel (bottom of picture) as it looks like it never protruded beyond the stretcher and into the admittedly slight recess on the upper portion of the leg.

Nice piece, good luck.

[Jim Becker]

Welcome. I'm also in agreement with Rick and Patrick.

BTW, CA is pretty much never a good glue solution for something structural.

[Christopher Charles]

I'll second the hide glue, though would almost certainly use liquid hide glue rather than hot.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

Thanks all. All of the joints are loose. I will carefully see if they will come apart today. My bottle of liquid Hyde glue has become very thick. Can it be revitalized by warming it up? The first image is a screen shot of a similar piece from the web. The one I am working on is upside down on the lady's dining room floor. I will be flipping it back over by myself. I think I will do that before I put the legs back, set it on two buckets and reattach the legs from underneath then set it down gently. It is a lovely modern design. The legs are not very strong.

Update, This much came apart easily. So far my idea is; leave the rest intact, glue the leg back together with Titebond and reassemble with Hyde glue?

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[Jim Becker]

I can't tell you one way or the other whether or not you can redeem your existing glue, but personally...I'd buy new, especially since you are repairing this piece for others.

[Kevin Jenness]

A new bottle of glue is a small cost considering the downside.

Can you tell what glue was used originally? Why do you think the joints all failed? Hide glue in a humid environment?

[Rick Whitehead]

I agree: you need a new bottle of fresh liquid hide glue. The manufacturer's website should show you how to tell it's fresh.
It looks like not enough glue was used in the original glue-up. That's a common problem with old furniture.
Let me reiterate the importance of using hide glue in a warm environment. I've had some joints fail that I glued up in cold conditions.
Rick

[Maurice Mcmurry]

Thanks again, The old glue looks like Elmer's. It was used sparingly. I think the wood has shrunk over the years. I glued the leg break with Titebond original. I did a test with the liquid Hyde and turned the heat to 70. Hyde glue is not stocked anywhere in town. My bottle may be older than 180 days. I will track that down and check my trial glue up.

My Hyde glue is 11 months old. The trial is hard and strong after 20 hours at 70 degrees. I have not found an official shelf life. Franklin's website confirms "Not for structural". The leg broke when the owner tipped the piece to put felt pads on the feet. She also confirms that it is a McIntosh made for them in Scotland in the 60s. I am going to use the Hyde glue.


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[johnny means]

I'd just remove any splinters that prevented a tight mate and glue and clamp with regular pva. If necessary, I'd add a single screw, then remove it and fill afterwards. Why bother with hide glue?

[Maurice Mcmurry]

It Is from Scotland, I turn my clock back 200 years when I think of the UK. Titebond would have been a good choice too I think. It was helpful to have an hour or two to get the clamp up right. I missed a few crumbs that keeps it from going together just right. I had plenty of time to deal with those. The Hyde glue is a good color mach. I left fillets on the inside where no one will see. I am not going to use a screw. It is nice to hope that I have done no harm. I'm putting it back together today.

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[Tom Bender]

It would look better without those feet.

[Michael Schuch]

A lot of wood workers like to preserve the original construction techniques and use materials simular to what would have been used originally.

Me, would use PVA (Titebond), definitely PVA. I have used Titebond a LOT older than 1 year old without any issues. I almost always use Titebond III.

[Kevin Jenness]

It would look better without those feet.

I agree, the floor protectors are intrusive. You can get darker sticky back felt and cut it to fit for a less obvious pad.

Hide glue does give the option to repair the joints again in the future if necessary. PVA not so much.

Good to see a vintage piece put back into service. Nice job.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

Thanks! The owner had her wall to wall carpet upgraded to wall to wall engineered wood floor covering (not to be confused with wood flooring), thus the snafu of tipping it to put the felts on, and the broken leg. The whole dining room suite is McIntosh. I hope no 200+ pounders lean back in those chairs. Her late husband was a furniture sleuth around Liverpool and Bristol. She told some stories that sounded like Roald Dahl,s Parson's Pleasure short story.

[Doug Garson]

It would look better without those feet.

Agree, five minutes with a brown sharpie could fix it.

[Christopher Charles]

Nice and thoughtful repair!

[Maurice Mcmurry]

Titebond original is my go to as well. No thanks to II or III. Extend is helpful. Dark is indispensable for some tasks. The Moderators changed the title of this post. I am not sure why?

[Maurice Mcmurry]

Well the sideboard has held up well. I received a call today that the legs of the matching Macintosh table have become too wobbly for use. Time to eat my words about Titebond III. I am going to use III on the table. It has clever retractable leaves that fold in half and stow away under the main leaves. It is lightly built but holding up fairly well. It has at least one broken dowel. I am going to try to pull the broken dowels out after some steam.

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[Maurice Mcmurry]

Success with steam. I am somewhat surprised. Just slight damage to the finish, I hope I can fix that.

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[Bernie Kopfer]

I'd just remove any splinters that prevented a tight mate and glue and clamp with regular pva. If necessary, I'd add a single screw, then remove it and fill afterwards. Why bother with hide glue?

I think Johnny has raised a very good question. What is the advantage of hide glue in this situation compared to a good pva?

[John Kananis]

The "old" hide glue could cause a bonding issue for the pva. other than that, it's not like you're trying to preserve the integrity of a 100y/o Stickley or anything so why not?

[Maurice Mcmurry]

The "old" hide glue could cause a bonding issue for the pva. other than that, it's not like you're trying to preserve the integrity of a 100y/o Stickley or anything so why not?

A started to have doubts about PVA when I felt how gooey the old brown glue became when it was hot. It acts like hide glue but has no odor. The other dowels have a tiny wiggle but do not want to come apart. I am thinking about relying on new, bigger corner blocks with 4 screws and 2 lags rather than a complete dismantle. The owner is fine with that. I will keep pondering while I make the odd size dowel. I would not have expected it to be metric, I don't have a fractional English match, I will make a 29/64ths

[John Kananis]

I try and avoid a hardware fix (screws, lags, etc) whenever possible. Just a personally choice I guess but I feel that hardware-bound-assembled-whatever become loose and rickety over time.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

I try and avoid a hardware fix (screws, lags, etc) whenever possible. Just a personally choice I guess but I feel that hardware-bound-assembled-whatever become loose and rickety over time.

That is a philosophy I aim for too. This is built so lightly I am conflicted. Lags or machine lags with nuts can be tightened periodically. My goal with hardware would be to avoid the breaking of another dowel during a disassembly or in the future.

[John Kananis]

Seems like its light weight is part of what makes the piece aesthetically pleasing. Also seems like a judgement call. I'd think leave the piece original but I don't have my own two hands on it to have any kind of feel of what to do.

Edit: the corner blocks weren't put there for a structural reason to begin with. Or, that's at least not what they're intended for.

[Mel Fulks]

Liquid hide glue is kept liquid by a chemical additive. I have heard from several guys that it is not as strong as the mix and heat old
stuff.

[mike stenson]

A few years ago FWW did some tests. They're pretty similar, porosity seems to matter.

Type1 PVA > slow set epoxy > PVA > liquid hide > hot hide > polyurethane was their order

https://www.finewoodworking.com/2007/07/01/how-strong-is-your-glue

[Maurice Mcmurry]

Conflicted is where I am at. Getting 4 of 16 dowels apart was traumatic. I dread the thought of breaking anything else. We have a hardwood table that has legs attached with two machine lags and nuts with no attachment to the skirt other than through the corner bracket. I think I will ask the owner. She says her late Husband and I collaborated on the corner blocks 20 years ago. I remember adding the sash locks to the stow-away leaves. It is a bad sign that I do not remember doing those corner blocks. I do always make corner blocks with diagonal grain and use Phillips head screws, she is probably correct.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

Mr. Mcintosh used a few nails and screws 60 or 70 years ago so I am going to screw in new corner blocks.

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[John Kananis]

Linking forward to seeing it put together and back in "action".

[Maurice Mcmurry]

I hope to take it back to the owner tomorrow. I sure hope the chairs are holding up, they match (very slim and not hardwood). I actually hate repairing furniture.

I made the corner blocks out of the chunkiest big hunks of Oak I had on hand in honor of Stickley. I really like Stickily Craftsman furniture. The pieces by the Stickley brother that did the skinny Art Nouveau woodworking is a favorite as well.

Delivered! Paid! I also poked 300 pounds of gravel into a ground hog burro under the driveway. We talked about the late husband quite a bit. I was gifted a signed copy of his book!

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[John Kananis]

Funny you mention him. I also dislike repairs so I usually price myself out of the work. But there's a woman that gives me a ton of work and she has an insane collection of older Stickley furniture. I've worked on quite a few of those pieces and have to say it's been a pleasure aside from 6 chairs that were coming loose. They had been worked on before by a total hack - it was so painful to my soul to remove the million pins that were installed into the joints. At least he had sense enough to use hide glue.


I hope to take it back to the owner tomorrow. I sure hope the chairs are holding up, they match (very slim and not hardwood). I actually hate repairing furniture.

I made the corner blocks out of the chunkiest big hunks of Oak I had on hand in honor of Stickley. I really like Stickily Craftsman furniture. The pieces by the Stickley brother that did the skinny Art Nouveau woodworking is a favorite as well.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

I wanted to make a video of the stow away leaves but the owner had company and it seemed inappropriate. Like every other thought one ever has... It is already on the web.

https://youtu.be/_qcBn3j9mVM

[Maurice Mcmurry]

Funny you mention him. I also dislike repairs so I usually price myself out of the work. But there's a woman that gives me a ton of work and she has an insane collection of older Stickley furniture. I've worked on quite a few of those pieces and have to say it's been a pleasure aside from 6 chairs that were coming loose. They had been worked on before by a total hack - it was so painful to my soul to remove the million pins that were installed into the joints. At least he had sense enough to use hide glue.

I did the repair and some yard work for $300.00. I also got a signed copy of the late husbands book which is priceless to me. The dining room set has been around the world. Twice. The chairs seem to be bastards with no mark. They pull off the skinny look quite well.

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[John Kananis]

I'm glad it all worked out so well, for everyone involved.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

Thank you John Kananis. Do you have any tips for removing dowels? I was lucky that the steam and resulting water damage was easy to hide with a stain marker. I have used steam on glossy items and had to do extensive finish repairs. In the future I might try dry heat with some kind of electric heater.

[John Kananis]

I've tried dry air with a hot air soldering station, didn't work at all for me. Steam is best, just like you did I feel. If it's pva glue, flooding the joint with solvent is your best bet but I really prefer not doing that (for so many reasons). I've also sawn through and drilled out a dowel or two here and there - where there was potential to damage the piece otherwise.


Thank you John Kananis. Do you have any tips for removing dowels? I was lucky that the steam and resulting water damage was easy to hide with a stain marker. I have used steam on glossy items and had to do extensive finish repairs. In the future I might try dry heat with some kind of electric heater.