Jwst Telescope Launch

[Michael Weber]

Watched the James Webb Space Telescope’s perfect launch and separation this morning. Here’s hoping for the continued successful completion of it’s very complex full deployment to the L2 position over the next several weeks. I’m unable to even comprehend the science, planning and engineering it took over twenty years to get to this point. There are some smart folks in this world. The golden mirror unfolded https://www.google.com/search?q=jwst+mirror&rlz=1C9BKJA_enUS919US919&hl=en-US&prmd=nisxv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwju2sbujv_0AhUHmWoFHdqoBVkQ_AUoAnoECAIQA g&biw=1024&bih=653&dpr=2#imgrc=SJMgv5yey48-PM

[Frederick Skelly]

Good news! Go baby go!

[Jim Koepke]

When this was seen in the list my first thought was, "Jesus Would Sing Tenor."

Merry Christmas,

jtk

[Tom M King]

My best friend has spent his lifetime developing infrared detectors for NASA. He was the lead scientist for the detectors. I visited when they were assembling it in the 100' cube clean room. There is a big viewing window in the lobby. A camera back from Hubble was just sitting out in the hall, waiting for the Smithsonian to find a place to put it.

[Richard Hart]

Big time rocket geek since Mercury... this totally blows my mind! The idea of seeing what amounts to the beginning of time? Can't wrap my mind around that.
Of course I watched the launch... Ariane 5 gets outta Dodge fast!
God only (I'm sure He does) knows what's gonna be found. Can't wait..

[Roger Feeley]

I would love to see a real time simulation of what the jwst is doing “right now”. I would also love to see a checklist of the thousands of things that must go right.

[Jim Koepke]

470707

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

jtk

- sorry couldn't resist

[Michael Weber]

470707
.

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

jtk

- sorry couldn't resistlol’ed remembering the flaw with Hubble. Interesting stuff here https://www.space.com/james-webb-space-telescope-sunshield-deployment-begins and there is a real time update of its progress on Utube from “The exoplanets channel. It’s about half way to L2 point clipping along at about 2800 Kph and unfolding the critical sun screen has begun. I have read that there are over a hundred points of possible failure in that maneuver alone.

[John K Jordan]

I would love to see a real time simulation of what the jwst is doing “right now”. I would also love to see a checklist of the thousands of things that must go right.

I've been following this page:

https://webb.nasa.gov/

Specifically, the Where is Webb link: https://webb.nasa.gov/content/webbLaunch/whereIsWebb.html
Scroll down for simulations of the most recently completed step. The Full Deployment animation shows what's happening at key times and dates.

The News link can be good to check too.

I learned more specifics about the Lagrange points 1,2,3,4&5 with this launch than I had in the past the Wikipedia article might be good:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagrange_point
Fascinating how many things have been sent to Sun-Earth L2. I never realized something could be put into a useful orbit around L2.

JKJ

[Tom M King]

The Hubble problems were not due to dumb mistakes, or scientists. It was due to Managers pushing sticking to a budget, and deadlines. The Scientists knew chances were not great, especially when testing is cut short.

This time, they took what time they needed, and spent more money than the managers and politicians wanted to spend.

When deciding what to do about fixing the Hubble, my friend took in a 12-1/2" mirror that he and I had hand ground when we were teenagers. It was better than what they had. He got put on the team that developed the fix.

Chances are a Lot better this time, even for a more complicated instrument.

[Jack Frederick]

thanks for the leads on info on this. Tom, I sure hoe you are right on the chances. I haven’t been following this closely, but have certainly kept my fingers crossed. I clearly remember my disappointment when the Hubble flubbed. turned out to be a great instrument, but much angst in the process. I’m just reading “Flying Blind” the story of Boeing and the 737 Max. It reads very much like Toms, “It was due to Managers pushing and sticking to a budget and deadlines.”

[mike stenson]

In every product I've been involved with that have had problems upon release, those problems were the results of management focusing on delivery time and budget. Without exception. We also knew, every time, that there would be issues.

[John K Jordan]

I see the telescope is rapidly approaching 50% of the distance to L2.

470851

[John K Jordan]

For those interested in such things this video is pretty good at describing the steps from launch to fully deployed. It's about 19 minutes.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeiQEG450gc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeiQEG450gc

[Myk Rian]

The Hubble problems were not due to dumb mistakes, or scientists. It was due to Managers pushing sticking to a budget, and deadlines. The Scientists knew chances were not great, especially when testing is cut short.

This time, they took what time they needed, and spent more money than the managers and politicians wanted to spend.

When deciding what to do about fixing the Hubble, my friend took in a 12-1/2" mirror that he and I had hand ground when we were teenagers. It was better than what they had. He got put on the team that developed the fix.

Chances are a Lot better this time, even for a more complicated instrument.

Perkin-Elmer sent it out before the final inspection was done. You know, cut costs.

I'm fascinated by JWST and the engineering that went into it. But $10B? Wow.
It was amazing when Hubbel discovered thousands of galaxies, in what was thought to be just a black area. It took 2, 40 day streams of the area for image processing to begin.

Astronomy is another hobby of mine. I have scopes from backpack size, to a 13.1" Newtonian reflector.
Lets hope the first picture, posted in TFSL forum isn't true.
https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?281149-Time-for-some-levity&p=3164386#post3164386

[Michael Weber]

Final side of the primary mirror was successfully deployed this morning. NASA had a simulation based on real life sensor data being sent during the event. Even knowing I was watching a simulation it was exciting to watch. Lots of stuff left to do but the sunscreen and mirror deployments were huge milestones. Proposed first pictures this summer if all goes well.

[John K Jordan]

Final side of the primary mirror was successfully deployed this morning. NASA had a simulation based on real life sensor data being sent during the event. Even knowing I was watching a simulation it was exciting to watch. Lots of stuff left to do but the sunscreen and mirror deployments were huge milestones. Proposed first pictures this summer if all goes well.

I watched that too. The entire deployment was so complex I was on edge since the launch. It was exciting to see the last big piece lock into place and to hear the step-by-step details about the motors and latching. Anyone wanting to be impressed might read abd watch the videos on the making of the mirror segments on this page:
https://www.webb.nasa.gov/content/observatory/ote/mirrors/index.html
Amazing.

Now for mirror alignments then off to L2. By golly, this thing might actually work!!

Another thing: I found a wonderful video on the why Lagrange points work.


https://youtu.be/7PHvDj4TDfM

[Steve Demuth]

The Hubble problems were not due to dumb mistakes, or scientists. It was due to Managers pushing sticking to a budget, and deadlines. The Scientists knew chances were not great, especially when testing is cut short.

This time, they took what time they needed, and spent more money than the managers and politicians wanted to spend.

When deciding what to do about fixing the Hubble, my friend took in a 12-1/2" mirror that he and I had hand ground when we were teenagers. It was better than what they had. He got put on the team that developed the fix.

Chances are a Lot better this time, even for a more complicated instrument.

Sorry, I have to disagree. Perkin-Elmer ground the primary mirror to the wrong curvature, because the technicians overseeing the grinding miscalibrated the optics guiding the grinding, and then ignored data from a calibration check system when it aprised them of their error. The budget and deadline mentality could well be blamed for the fact that the mistake wasn't detected before launch (NASA skipped some testing that would have been usual for such a system), but the screw-up itself was not managerial, it was the technical people on the manufacturing front. They just did the job wrong.

To their credit, they did it wrong so precisely that it proved possible to fix in place.

[Steve Demuth]

In every product I've been involved with that have had problems upon release, those problems were the results of management focusing on delivery time and budget. Without exception. We also knew, every time, that there would be issues.

You've led a charmed technical life, in that case. Engineers make mistakes and ignore warnings like any human being. The I-35 bridge collapse in Minneapolis in 2007, for example, was traced to improperly specified components in the original design. They weren't undersized to save money, the engineers just calculated the load requirements wrong.

[Mike Soaper]

nahhhh it was mis ground on purpose so that hubble was first used to take hi res imaging of earth :rolleyes:

[John K Jordan]

The NASA page on the Hubble mirror error: https://www.nasa.gov/content/hubbles-mirror-flaw

[Myk Rian]

nahhhh it was mis ground on purpose so that hubble was first used to take hi res imaging of earth :rolleyes:

A Kodak Brownie would have been enough. After all, the earth is flat.

[Tom M King]

I just talked to my friend who was in charge of developing the detectors on it. He retired from NASA soon after they hauled it off for testing, but still is in touch, and he's going to be in on seeing the first images.

He says everything is working as it should. The one thing you might not hear about why it's taking time to get ready, is that it still has a lot of heat to give off. It's a slow go radiating heat off in a vacuum, so every half of it's temperature it gives off, the next half takes 16 times as long. In other words, as it gets colder, the longer it takes to get more cold.

He's going to forward me the images as soon as he gets them.

[Michael Weber]

So NASA chose a not too bright and not to dim star to use to focus the 18 segments. It started here

474795

and has progressed to here

474689

Adding to what Tom King mentioned about the operating temperature, it will cool passively to -380 degrees F but cryocooler(s) will cool the infrared detectors down further to almost -450 degrees F or close to absolute zero. Necessary so any residual heat from the instruments do not affect the extreme infrared spectrum they are looking for. BTW the 18 segments have to be aligned within a faction of the wave length of light. Less than 1/10,000 the thickness of a human hair.

[Tom M King]

edited to add for third time, maybe we'll see more in a few days. First picture is absolutely amazing. I was always surprised at how confident all the Scientists were, but looks like they had good reason to be.