Another table question or 2 (glue and finish)

[Tony Wilkins]

Have the walnut for the dining table acclimating in the shop. Thought of two more questions?

glue for the top: I have liquid hide and hot hide glue available but thought today that the tite bond 3 I have (the one in the green bottle is 3 right?) might be better. Thoughts?

finish: my wife usually does the finishing but she’s been using the same things (minwax stain and verithane) forever. I know there’s lots of choices. What would be your choice for a hand planed walnut dining table?

[William Fretwell]

The Titre Bond 3 would be my choice for a table.
Walnut finish two coats of smoking hot BLO applied with tongs and wire wool. Soak in for an hour or so them wipe off. Each coat a few days apart. After that Tung oil once in a while.
You will be able to appreciate the grain and be well protected with an easily renewable finish.

[Warren Mickley]

I use hot hide glue for everything except gluing boards together to make a wider board. There are several reasons for this. With joints like mortise and tenon or dovetails, you want to use hide glue so that the joint can be taken apart for repairs. Usually a gluejoint between two boards does not have to be taken apart.

A mortise and tenon joint is self aligning, whereas a butt joint needs careful alignment, so extra time is helpful.

Hide glue becomes brittle with age, so that we can get some joints apart with just a smart blow as the glue shatters. Titebond glue can fail after a long period, but is not as vulnerable as an old hide glue joint.

Liquid hide glue has salts which help retain water and retard drying. However these same salts remain in the glue and attract moisture during periods of high humidity, softening the glue.

For a hand planed surface, I recommend water stains for their clarity and ease of use.

[Joe A Faulkner]

Lots of options on the finish. What type of use is this table going to see? In my house, we rarely use table clothes. We have six kids; eat dinner together every night. Gather around the main table for card games and board games. My wife uses it for cutting fabric. It’s been known to be used as an assembly surface for some cabinet door glue ups. So a tough durable finish is a must for me.
We like a a satin finish. Some walnut is known to turn a bit orange or cherry like. I’d probably go with an initial coat of mixed mineral spirits, blo and polyurethane, then sand, then a coat of thinned satin poly, followed by a coat of satin poly. I might consider a top coat of Target EM 93000 if I wanted to keep sunlight UV from changing the woods color. Some folks advocate applying a walnut stain to walnut to keep it dark.

you might post this in the finishing forum.

[chris carter]

My general rule of thumb for indoor furniture is hot hide glue for all joinery. Laminations are usually PVA glue, but once in a while hide glue (usually if they are small).

[Richard Coers]

I never seen any need for a water resistant glue on a table if you have a film finish on it. No way the water gets at the glue. Original Titebond for me.

[Derek Cohen]

I use hot hide glue for everything except gluing boards together to make a wider board. There are several reasons for this. With joints like mortise and tenon or dovetails, you want to use hide glue so that the joint can be taken apart for repairs. Usually a gluejoint between two boards does not have to be taken apart.

A mortise and tenon joint is self aligning, whereas a butt joint needs careful alignment, so extra time is helpful.

Hide glue becomes brittle with age, so that we can get some joints apart with just a smart blow as the glue shatters. Titebond glue can fail after a long period, but is not as vulnerable as an old hide glue joint.

Liquid hide glue has salts which help retain water and retard drying. However these same salts remain in the glue and attract moisture during periods of high humidity, softening the glue.

For a hand planed surface, I recommend water stains for their clarity and ease of use.

I echo Warren’s comments and recommendation for these two glue types. The ability to pull apart joinery (at some stage) is a must for furniture intended for the long haul, otherwise it will end it days in the landfill. Only hide glue can be glued to itself.

I have used polyurethane glue for outdoor furniture, and hated the foaming mess that has to be cleaned up. This should never be a consideration for indoor furniture. If one needs a gap filling glue, then use epoxy.

I use Titebond 2 for table tops and Titebond Hide Glue for joinery (probably not as good as making it oneself, but I have not been left down).

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Tony Wilkins]

Fwiw here’s the walnut I bought…
470601
470602

[John C Cox]

For indoor work, the quality of your joint depends on the stability of your wood and your skill prepping the joint. If the wood twists, humps, or curves as humidity changes, it's going go be trouble. If you can see light when you candle the joint prior to assembly, it's going to be trouble.

Glue wise - Titebond 1. You can disassemble it with a clothes iron if you really need to. There's something to be said for unheated open time when you're jockeying boards and clamps. ;) ;).

Finish wise, water or alcohol based dyes - nope. Spills and condensation rings may dissolve the dye and leave permanent uglies. Honestly, I'm not a fan of BLO. It's a dust magnet, stays sticky/oily forever, and isn't really that good against stuff a kitchen table will see every day... like rings from cups. I converted to Minwax Wipe On Poly after Behlens changed their Rock Hard table top varnish recipe. (Their new formula gives me ripping headaches.). It's easy to apply, tough and doesn't have trouble with sticky, cups, or dust... AND it doesn't make my head want to explode.