Best value for a small footprint wide belt sander?

[derek labian]

I've been looking at purchasing a wide-belt or drum sander for some time. I have the common dilemma; wide-belts are too big, and drum sanders kinda suck. There are a couple of wide-belt that could fit the bill, the Powermatic 1632 16", Baileigh 16" (also JPW), the Grizzly 15". The Powermatic 16" 3PH unit seems like a pretty good deal for a unit with a small footprint, $6999 seems like a pretty good deal. It doesn't have a powered table though, which is a bummer.

Looking for any opinions on small wide belts, and/or better values I may be missing; perhaps an off brand version thats cheaper, but from the same fab.

Oddly, I couldn't find any Powermatic width/length specifications for this unit, but it looks small enough.

[Jim Becker]

The question that comes to mind is whether or not the width is going to meet your needs or if they are open sided like many drum sanders are, how good is the registration when flipping a wider workpiece around to run it through.

[derek labian]

The question that comes to mind is whether or not the width is going to meet your needs or if they are open sided like many drum sanders are, how good is the registration when flipping a wider workpiece around to run it through.

32" seems sufficient. According to the threads on SMC about deflection the 1632 style (from any manufacturer) has no deflection. A 25" wide belt is about 3x the cost.

[Paul J Kelly]

Derek,

There are a few guys on the Felder Owners Group that own a North State DW-16P. Seems like a Powermatic clone but they swear by it.

https://leneavesupply.com/northstate-dw-16p.html

Says it is in stock too! They say $6,799. I cannot find a powermatic for less than $9k, but I didnt look that hard.

PK
PKwoodworking

[Ron Selzer]

Got a used one in 2017, like it a lot. mine is a 15" takes 16x54 belts, can change belts fast to step up thru the grits. Have had a couple of drum sanders, no way no how would I go back to a drum sander again

[John Ziebron]

After numerous frustrations with two different drum sanders over the last 20 years I bought a Woodmaster drum sander a little over a year ago. It was a night and day difference and I have had no issues with mine. I believe they are the best drum sanders on the market. They don't make and open design and are solid machines. They are priced between regular drum sanders and a small belt sander. If you are thinking about a belt sander I think these machines are worth looking into.

[Bobby Robbinett]

I recently got some hands on time with the open ended Grizzly wide belt. Helped a busy set it up and get it calibrated. When we got done it was dead on. We ran some rough glue ups both ways through it and the results were amazing. We also tried some freshly built raw wood cabinet doors and I was blown away. I would imagine the Powermatic and Baileigh to be even better.

I personally use a Cantec that is worlds ahead of the Grizzly I had prior. My Cantec has powered up and down and is significantly better machine than a Grizzly or Powermatic. They are also comparable in price.

With drum sanders you don’t want an open ended model. But wide belts are much better made and heavier duty and more accurate

[Jim Becker]

32" seems sufficient. According to the threads on SMC about deflection the 1632 style (from any manufacturer) has no deflection. A 25" wide belt is about 3x the cost.

Sounds good...I only mentioned it because, well...what you want/need to do is the bottom line in the "size matters" tool decision. :)

[David Kumm]

If you can fit a 24" machine, look for a used SCMI Sandya Win. they go for about 4K-5K on the used market and a good machine. You want a drum and a removeable platen. Also check the tracking system and air requirement needed. An electric eye coupled with pneumatic tracking uses less air than strictly pnuematic. Since a WB generally runs a 10 hp motor, you don't want to need a large compressor running at the same time unless you have lots of amps to spare. Dave

[Carl Beckett]

I have owned many different drum and belt sanders. Currently a Jet 1632 wide belt. It has a platen (something to consider). Believe it is a powermatic clone. 7.5hp

I like it

Keep in mind they do not remove large amounts of material per pass.

The drum sanders never clicked for me. For a while I had a large timesaver. But gave it up for space

By far the best value was a little Reliant 13” belt sander. That thing was a workhorse. For a short time I had a similar woodtek 13” model. I liked both of these belt sanders more than the drums (have had multiple drum sanders including grizzly dual drum. But have not had the wood master. But these were tremendous value having purchased them used at very decent prices.

[Warren Lake]

everytime I read these posts im thankful ive had stroke sanders from the start.

[Kevin Jenness]

everytime I read these posts im thankful ive had stroke sanders from the start.

Yes, stroke sanders are great if you have the space, especially for cleaning up after a drum or belt feed through machine.

[Mark Bolton]

Yes, stroke sanders are great if you have the space, especially for cleaning up after a drum or belt feed through machine.

And the man hours, and the ability to tolerate virtually zero dust collection, etc.. A ninnie can feed a sander with zero operator fatigue, zero operator influence on part quality, and zero cleanup. Stroke sanders are the bee's knees where they shine. No comparison elsewhere.

[Warren Lake]

drums are calibrating machines. There is no reason to run material on a drum before a stroke. You can hang an assembled cabinet off a stroke sander or drop the table, you cant do that on a wide belt. They each have their place if I could have only one it would be stroke. My first shop was a postage stamp the one I built was on the wall.

[Kevin Jenness]

And the man hours, and the ability to tolerate virtually zero dust collection, etc.. A ninnie can feed a sander with zero operator fatigue, zero operator influence on part quality, and zero cleanup. Stroke sanders are the bee's knees where they shine. No comparison elsewhere.

Yes, they are completely different machines for different tasks. Still, unless you have a feed through sander that gives a clean enough result to go directly to finish a stroke sander used by a skilled operator is far faster for panel sanding than the alternatives I am familiar with. Ninnies will be safer with a hand-held random orbit sander but they are better avoided if possible.

[derek labian]

Derek,

There are a few guys on the Felder Owners Group that own a North State DW-16P. Seems like a Powermatic clone but they swear by it.

https://leneavesupply.com/northstate-dw-16p.html

Says it is in stock too! They say $6,799. I cannot find a powermatic for less than $9k, but I didnt look that hard.

PK
PKwoodworking

Same price, so not much in the way of savings there. The powermatic 3PH is sub 7k.

[derek labian]

I recently got some hands on time with the open ended Grizzly wide belt. Helped a busy set it up and get it calibrated. When we got done it was dead on. We ran some rough glue ups both ways through it and the results were amazing. We also tried some freshly built raw wood cabinet doors and I was blown away. I would imagine the Powermatic and Baileigh to be even better.

I personally use a Cantec that is worlds ahead of the Grizzly I had prior. My Cantec has powered up and down and is significantly better machine than a Grizzly or Powermatic. They are also comparable in price.

With drum sanders you don’t want an open ended model. But wide belts are much better made and heavier duty and more accurate

Interesting, which model Cantec are you using?

[derek labian]

If you can fit a 24" machine, look for a used SCMI Sandya Win. they go for about 4K-5K on the used market and a good machine. You want a drum and a removeable platen. Also check the tracking system and air requirement needed. An electric eye coupled with pneumatic tracking uses less air than strictly pnuematic. Since a WB generally runs a 10 hp motor, you don't want to need a large compressor running at the same time unless you have lots of amps to spare. Dave

I don't think I have the tolerance for anything used. It turns into a project of its own, and I don't have much time as it is. I did look at the 24" units, but they just seem a bit larger and far more expensive. I'm not sure I would get the value.

[Mark Bolton]

I don't think I have the tolerance for anything used. It turns into a project of its own, and I don't have much time as it is.

Dont be so sure that buying new wont be a project of its own as well. Many of us have had long slog's with brand new equipment. Often times snagging something that has been fully de-bugged and is running flawlessly but is just being replaced due to upgrade or increased capacity is a win win. I have a Holz-her 1435se Genesis edge bander that was swapped out for a new 150K machine blinged out and the seller told me he wished he'd never sold it becuase they knew the machine inside and out and had worked all the kinks out. The new machine didnt make parts for months after hitting the floor. Same pertains to smaller machines.

Dont cut your nose off to spite your face. We all went through the stages of thinking new was the only way to go. Its often a huge mistake in money and time to have nothing more than a shiny new coat of paint sitting on the floor. You find a machine that is running without a hitch and being swapped out for upgrade for 1/3 the money and you'd be crazy not to snatch it up.

[Darrell Bade]

I had the same feeling as you about drum sanders and saved for a while for a wide belt, twice I had the money saved and my wife's chemo bills hit. Finally got a Grizzly G0819 15" about 5 years ago. I have sanded a bunch of wood on it and it works great, highly recommend it. Wish I had it when I built my kitchen cabinets, would have saved me many hours with a random orbital.

[johnny means]

everytime I read these posts im thankful ive had stroke sanders from the start.

I'm not so sure that the two even serve the same function. A stroke sander is more interchangeable with an an orbital or handheld belt sander than a wide belt or drum sander.

[derek labian]

Dont be so sure that buying new wont be a project of its own as well. Many of us have had long slog's with brand new equipment. Often times snagging something that has been fully de-bugged and is running flawlessly but is just being replaced due to upgrade or increased capacity is a win win. I have a Holz-her 1435se Genesis edge bander that was swapped out for a new 150K machine blinged out and the seller told me he wished he'd never sold it becuase they knew the machine inside and out and had worked all the kinks out. The new machine didnt make parts for months after hitting the floor. Same pertains to smaller machines.

Dont cut your nose off to spite your face. We all went through the stages of thinking new was the only way to go. Its often a huge mistake in money and time to have nothing more than a shiny new coat of paint sitting on the floor. You find a machine that is running without a hitch and being swapped out for upgrade for 1/3 the money and you'd be crazy not to snatch it up.

A used piece of equipment may be the devil the seller knows, but its going to be largely an unknown to the buyer. New also comes in a crate, support etc. as i do t have a sander at all, and wide belts seem relatively complex, id rather start with something new, than find out i made a mistake and saved a hit of money.

[derek labian]

I had the same feeling as you about drum sanders and saved for a while for a wide belt, twice I had the money saved and my wife's chemo bills hit. Finally got a Grizzly G0819 15" about 5 years ago. I have sanded a bunch of wood on it and it works great, highly recommend it. Wish I had it when I built my kitchen cabinets, would have saved me many hours with a random orbital.

Sorry to hear about your wife. Definitely more important than your sander though :)

[Warren Lake]

Every trained european had a stroke sander, no mystery in that. I sand assembled doors doors on it with hardly any cross grain scratches, or hang solid wood cabinets off the sander to sand the outside after glue up, or drop the power table whatever it is probably 30 inches or more.

You can flip the top belt cover put a stop and edge sand on it horizontal. It can do stuff other sanders cant. Belts are cheap and it can remove material like crazy if you put a coarse belt.

The biggest problem is you cant put Mongo on them they take skill. Dust collection isnt as good as a wide belt they work great, you can put a dust collector pipe on both ends if you want usually they are supplied with only one end that makes a big difference. You can trash a door in 2 seconds or you can get great results when you have the feel.

No big power requirements. Kevin there is no drum sander first why would you do that?

[johnny means]

What's a mongo?

[Warren Lake]

blazing saddles,

any of you with employees will have had some.

[johnny means]

Jesus, who let that guy in.:rolleyes:

[Alan Lightstone]

I bought a Grizzly 24" closed-end wide belt sander. While it works very well, I regret getting a unit that small. I wound up having far more wider panels than that then I expected. An open unit, if calibrated well would have served me better, or a 37" unit. I sold my 16/32" drum sander when I bought the wide belt. And sometimes miss it for those wider boards.

That being said, I'm not sure my 10HP Phase Perfect would handle that, so my costs would have gone up astronomically.

Oh well.

[Erik Loza]

I've got some customers who seem totally happy with drum sanders (Performax, mostly) but production shops won't have any time for one of those. I have not yet seen an open-ended sander in any shop in my area. Plenty of true widebelts, of course. Mostly ancient Italian ones. For the record, to anyone considering a used widebelt, be VERY thorough in your homework before purchasing. They are probably the #2 machine behind used edgebanders as far as "I should have bought new but now I'm saddled with this thing".

Derek, why don't you get an HS-950? Everyone can use an edge sander and that thing is impossible to beat for the price.

Erik

[Patrick Kane]

Dont be so sure that buying new wont be a project of its own as well. Many of us have had long slog's with brand new equipment. Often times snagging something that has been fully de-bugged and is running flawlessly but is just being replaced due to upgrade or increased capacity is a win win. I have a Holz-her 1435se Genesis edge bander that was swapped out for a new 150K machine blinged out and the seller told me he wished he'd never sold it becuase they knew the machine inside and out and had worked all the kinks out. The new machine didnt make parts for months after hitting the floor. Same pertains to smaller machines.

Dont cut your nose off to spite your face. We all went through the stages of thinking new was the only way to go. Its often a huge mistake in money and time to have nothing more than a shiny new coat of paint sitting on the floor. You find a machine that is running without a hitch and being swapped out for upgrade for 1/3 the money and you'd be crazy not to snatch it up.

Sshhhhh, the man wants new. Just like the guy buying brand new Martin equipment, we need those people to buy new so i can buy their used stuff 15 years from now at a steep discount : )

Derek, i had one of the bigger/better drum sanders you can buy, the Supermax 37x2. It sucked. Dont be fooled into thinking an expensive and big drum sander will satisfy you. It comes down to the limited surface area of the drum and the paper. At a certain point the heat and dust have nowhere to go. You load the abrasive, heat builds up, and your feedrate is extremely limited.

[Kevin Jenness]

For the record, to anyone considering a used widebelt, be VERY thorough in your homework before purchasing. They are probably the #2 machine behind used edgebanders as far as "I should have bought new but now I'm saddled with this thing".Erik

Ditto. I wouldn't be afraid of buying used, but I wouldn't recommend it to a first-time user hobbyist. I think the open-ended machines can be ok - I know several small commercial shops that have them- but relying on them for perfect results on wide panels is optimistic. A 5 hp machine is not going to remove a lot of stock per pass. If you have a shop with a widebelt close by that can be a good alternative to owning one.

[derek labian]

Derek, why don't you get an HS-950? Everyone can use an edge sander and that thing is impossible to beat for the price.

Only because I already have an oscillating edge sander. :)

[derek labian]

Sshhhhh, the man wants new. Just like the guy buying brand new Martin equipment, we need those people to buy new so i can buy their used stuff 15 years from now at a steep discount : )

Hah, no need to wait 15 years, I'll probably change next year :D


Derek, i had one of the bigger/better drum sanders you can buy, the Supermax 37x2. It sucked. Dont be fooled into thinking an expensive and big drum sander will satisfy you. It comes down to the limited surface area of the drum and the paper. At a certain point the heat and dust have nowhere to go. You load the abrasive, heat builds up, and your feedrate is extremely limited.

Agree. I've looked at the Supermax a few times at Rockler (16/32). I researched the topic a few times on SMC, the answer is always the same, go wide belt if at all possible.

[derek labian]

Ditto. I wouldn't be afraid of buying used, but I wouldn't recommend it to a first-time user hobbyist.

Exactly my concern. You don't know what you don't know, and I'm worried about learning those things the hard way. The more complex the equipment, the less interested i am in buying used.


I think the open-ended machines can be ok - I know several small commercial shops that have them- but relying on them for perfect results on wide panels is optimistic. A 5 hp machine is not going to remove a lot of stock per pass. If you have a shop with a widebelt close by that can be a good alternative to owning one.

It's 7.5HP but I get your point. My biggest issue is space.

[Ron Selzer]

a 36-grit belt will remove a lot of material fast for a sander
I use a 36-grit belt to clean up the glued up boards, then go with a 50, 60, 80, 100, 120 for one pass on each side
36-grit will run less amps at 1 full turn then the 120-grit at 1/2 turn
keep an eye on the dust collector when doing much 36-grit work
I have a fair amount of time running wider than 15" glue ups thru my sander it works however have ended up with wide cupped glue ups when trying up around 24" or wider
Ron

[Warren Lake]

that actually hurts to read

[Robert London]

I have a Supermax 25 x 2 5hp. It does not suck and have been happy with it. Not perfect and a few quirks, but then again I paid 2700 new for it. Now it’s 4k with current increases.

Nothing really beats a wide belt sander, but then again you have to have the space for it. Might as well get a 36” machine if you’re getting a wide belt, then it’s over 10k easy and takes up a lot of room.

[derek labian]

a 36-grit belt will remove a lot of material fast for a sander
I use a 36-grit belt to clean up the glued up boards, then go with a 50, 60, 80, 100, 120 for one pass on each side
36-grit will run less amps at 1 full turn then the 120-grit at 1/2 turn
keep an eye on the dust collector when doing much 36-grit work
I have a fair amount of time running wider than 15" glue ups thru my sander it works however have ended up with wide cupped glue ups when trying up around 24" or wider
Ron

Well that kind of defeats the purpose.

[derek labian]

I have a fair amount of time running wider than 15" glue ups thru my sander it works however have ended up with wide cupped glue ups when trying up around 24" or wider
Ron

I'm really bummed about your experience Ron. I've read so many posts that say no deflection on these units. What brand unit are you using and why do you think your getting deflection? I assume the overhead assembly is flexing?

[Ron Selzer]

I'm really bummed about your experience Ron. I've read so many posts that say no deflection on these units. What brand unit are you using and why do you think your getting deflection? I assume the overhead assembly is flexing?

I don't think it is flexing at all as I see no difference from side to side and am very happy with it. It will flatten anything fed to it up to the width of the belt
Once you get 8-10" past the edge of the belt there is a support under it but nothing to hold it down. As long as I keep it under 20" wide as the belt is 16" everything comes out as flat as I can measure it. It is when I try sanding 30" wide that it is really noticeable. Having a hard time explaining this, if the glue up is flat then it stays flat, if the glue up has a cup to it then I can't get it out with the sander. I firmly believe this just is how it is no matter if a belt or drum sander.
I really like this sander and would not want to be without it, just need to understand it can't do the impossible.
I bought it used off of a guy with a one-man cabinet shop. He replaced it with a 36" wide belt. He bought it in the 90's to replace a 16/32? drum sander that he claimed he had worn two of them out. If you can get one with photo eye I would as this one is all pneumatic tracking and takes a 3Hp 60-gallon compressor to stay with it. A good pancake compressor will not keep up.
SECO SB-38 5hp single phase 16x54 belt, single speed feed
Ron

[derek labian]

Having a hard time explaining this

I think you explained it well. I never really thought about the material being held down flat, just supporting it with the extension arm. Thank you for the information.

[David Kumm]

I've had two Performax, 25x2 and 37x2 and currently have two WB Sandya Win 25" and Sandya 5 43x2. There is a place for all machines. If the work load is light and you don't have a lot of spare amps, the drum sanders are much better than nothing. You learn to finesse the feed and not get greedy, dress the belts often, and most important, keep tightening the belts and watch that they don't overlap at the seams. If you bandsaw your own veneer, the flat conveyor belt of the performax is ideal. A used 25x2 for 1000-1500 has little risk and will serve until you really need something better. If you go new with a WB you don't want to buy on price. A heavy build that holds the head securely and keeps settings is huge. Open end machines of any type are handy but come at the cost of needing to keep the DOC low, much like a drum sander. Not a big issue with a sander as even the heavy machines should be considered more finesse than stock removal. If your planer is good, you really only need a sander for cleanup and that is all an open is really good at.

I also avoid yellow type glue, particularly for a drum sander but even with my WB. I generally don't like the foaming mess of a gorilla type but sanding that type of glue saves the belts big time. Dave

[Warren Lake]

no one even asks what type of work the guy does. Its the starting point for anything what a person needs and like Dave says usually more than one machine. They all do same work more or less but do it differently and they all have different costs and dynamics from price to power requirements to space.

[Dave Cav]

No one has brought up Safety Speed, but they make a nice widebelt, not too big for a 36". I have had mine for about ten years, bought new at AWFS; it's been a real game changer for the shop. Made in the USA, with US tech support, too.

[derek labian]

No one has brought up Safety Speed, but they make a nice widebelt, not too big for a 36". I have had mine for about ten years, bought new at AWFS; it's been a real game changer for the shop. Made in the USA, with US tech support, too.

ill take a look.

[Phillip Mitchell]

Derek, what are you building primarily?

[derek labian]

Derek, what are you building primarily?

Furniture. Some cabinets but limited in volume and scope.

[Paul J Kelly]

Derek,

I too want a wide belt someday. They have so many pluses to them.

There is one style of double drum sander that is different that the performax type of drum sanders. They are made under a few names - CWI, Powermatic, Grizzly, Baileigh and a few others. They come in 25" and 37" versions and they have a bunch of different features than the traditional open end sanders or the double drum performax clones.

They all come in a significant floor standing machine. The 37" versions are around 1000 lb's. They have thick rubber coated 6" drums to minimize heat soak and improve finish. They have rubber conveyor belts like a wide belt sander does and the feed rate is much quicker than the performax style. They also have spring loaded rubber hold down rollers kind of like a planer does. They have much larger motors. Most are 7.5 hp or more for the 37" version and 5hp for the 25" versions. Powermatic decided to move the drive belts into the cabinet for some reason, most of the others have the drive belts in a small enclosure on the side to keep the belts out of the sawdust.

The sandpaper swap is easier because of the design of the hold downs and the dust collection is very good. Plus, they are very basic machines. Much less complex than most widebelt sanders.

CWI and Powermatic come with 5 year warranties and come with a nice set of cabinet doors underneath to store the abrasives.

They go from $6k to $7k for the 37" and are built to work all day.

http://www.cwimachinery.com/product/sandx-37-heavy-duty-dual-drum-sander/

https://www.baileigh.com/drum-sander-sd-376

https://www.grizzly.com/products/grizzly-37-10-hp-drum-sander/g0449

https://www.powermatic.com/us/en/p/dds-237-drum-sander-7-5hp-1ph-230v/1791320

PK
PKwoodworking

[Paul J Kelly]

Derek,

I too want a wide belt someday. They have so many pluses to them.

There is one style of double drum sander that is different that the performax type of drum sanders. They are made under a few names - CWI, Powermatic, Grizzly, Baileigh and a few others. They come in 25" and 37" versions and they have a bunch of different features than the traditional open end sanders or the double drum performax clones.

They all come in a significant floor standing machine. The 37" versions are around 1000 lb's. They have thick rubber coated 6" drums to minimize heat soak and improve finish. They have rubber conveyor belts like a wide belt sander does and the feed rate is much quicker than the performax style. They also have spring loaded rubber hold down rollers kind of like a planer does. They have much larger motors. Most are 7.5 hp or more for the 37" version and 5hp for the 25" versions. Powermatic decided to move the drive belts into the cabinet for some reason, most of the others have the drive belts in a small enclosure on the side to keep the belts out of the sawdust.

The sandpaper swap is easier because of the design of the hold downs and the dust collection is very good. Plus, they are very basic machines. Much less complex than most widebelt sanders.

CWI and Powermatic come with 5 year warranties and come with a nice set of cabinet doors underneath to store the abrasives.

They go from $6k to $7k for the 37" and are built to work all day.

http://www.cwimachinery.com/product/...l-drum-sander/ (http://www.cwimachinery.com/product/sandx-37-heavy-duty-dual-drum-sander/)

https://www.baileigh.com/drum-sander-sd-376

https://www.grizzly.com/products/gri...m-sander/g0449 (https://www.grizzly.com/products/grizzly-37-10-hp-drum-sander/g0449)

https://www.powermatic.com/us/en/p/d...h-230v/1791320 (https://www.powermatic.com/us/en/p/dds-237-drum-sander-7-5hp-1ph-230v/1791320)

PK
PKwoodworking

[Paul J Kelly]

Derek,

I too want a wide belt someday. They have so many pluses to them.

There is one style of double drum sander that is different that the performax type of drum sanders. They are made under a few names - CWI, Powermatic, Grizzly, Baileigh and a few others. They come in 25" and 37" versions and they have a bunch of different features than the traditional open end sanders or the double drum performax clones.

They all come in a significant floor standing machine. The 37" versions are around 1000 lb's. They have thick rubber coated 6" drums to minimize heat soak and improve finish. They have rubber conveyor belts like a wide belt sander does and the feed rate is much quicker than the performax style. They also have spring loaded rubber hold down rollers kind of like a planer does. They have much larger motors. Most are 7.5 hp or more for the 37" version and 5hp for the 25" versions. Powermatic decided to move the drive belts into the cabinet for some reason, most of the others have the drive belts in a small enclosure on the side to keep the belts out of the sawdust.

The sandpaper swap is easier because of the design of the hold downs and the dust collection is very good. Plus, they are very basic machines. Much less complex than most widebelt sanders.

CWI and Powermatic come with 5 year warranties and come with a nice set of cabinet doors underneath to store the abrasives.

They go from $6k to $7k for the 37" and are built to work all day.


PK
PKwoodworking

[derek labian]

Derek,

I too want a wide belt someday. They have so many pluses to them.

There is one style of double drum sander that is different that the performax type of drum sanders. They are made under a few names - CWI, Powermatic, Grizzly, Baileigh and a few others. They come in 25" and 37" versions and they have a bunch of different features than the traditional open end sanders or the double drum performax clones.

They all come in a significant floor standing machine. The 37" versions are around 1000 lb's. They have thick rubber coated 6" drums to minimize heat soak and improve finish. They have rubber conveyor belts like a wide belt sander does and the feed rate is much quicker than the performax style. They also have spring loaded rubber hold down rollers kind of like a planer does. They have much larger motors. Most are 7.5 hp or more for the 37" version and 5hp for the 25" versions. Powermatic decided to move the drive belts into the cabinet for some reason, most of the others have the drive belts in a small enclosure on the side to keep the belts out of the sawdust.

The sandpaper swap is easier because of the design of the hold downs and the dust collection is very good. Plus, they are very basic machines. Much less complex than most widebelt sanders.

CWI and Powermatic come with 5 year warranties and come with a nice set of cabinet doors underneath to store the abrasives.

They go from $6k to $7k for the 37" and are built to work all day.


PK
PKwoodworking

An interesting suggestion. I hadn't considered these options. Looks like the PM is about $8k for a 3PH 10HP, and about $6200 for the Grizzly version. Do you have one of these or just suggestion it as an option?

I also started looking at the SCM DMC SD 10 CS 95 and the Felder FW series 37" wide belts. It's no longer as small of a footprint, but I'm not sure it would be any larger than the Drum's we're talking about. The SCM comes in around $19k, no Idea on the Felder FW, but the Felder FW has two processing units so its pretty cool.

https://www.felder-group.com/en-us/products/wide-belt-sanding-machines-c1955/wide-belt-sander-fw-series-p143161

https://www.scmgroup.com/en/scmwood/products/wide-belt-sanders.c869/automatic-sanding-and-calibrating-machines.870/dmc-sd-10.557

[Erik Loza]

Derek, if you’re serious about true widebelt, give me a call after Christmas. This particular market can be a bit of a minefield, like edegbanders.

Erik

470416

[Warren Lake]

You dont need a wide belt. You answered that already by answering the type of work you do.

Make the space, get the right machine for the work you want to do and learn how to use it. I set up to do custom work and did it so I bought the right machine to do the work.

You are being barked up the wrong tree.

[derek labian]

You dont need a wide belt. You answered that already by answering the type of work you do.

Make the space, get the right machine for the work you want to do and learn how to use it. I set up to do custom work and did it so I bought the right machine to do the work.

You are being barked up the wrong tree.

What do you suggest the right machine is?

[derek labian]

Derek, if you’re serious about true widebelt, give me a call after Christmas. This particular market can be a bit of a minefield, like edegbanders.

Erik

470416

Half considering; in general, is there any pricing benefits to buying before end-of-year?

[Phillip Mitchell]

I have never felt the need for a wide belt building furniture and I do this for a living. Cabinetry, countertops, doors and other architectural millwork, yes, there can be tremendous value and time savings in a wide belt for that work, but I just don’t see it for small scale furniture work unless you build furniture in multiples / batches and are doing it for a living. Not sure if you’re a hobbyist or doing it to put food on the table.

I suppose it depends on the scale and type of furniture you’re building, but I get by in my shop with a stable of nice Festool random orbital sanders and a dust extractor. When I do cabinetry stuff and millwork I am dreaming about a wide belt, but I currently have no space for such a machine. For furniture work I am typically going from the planer to 150 or 180 grit with a Festool ETS EC150 and going up the grits from there. I don’t know that I’d call if fast, but it works and only gets called into question when there are tons and tons of parts which can get cumbersome and tiring with an orbital sander.

I’d love to have something like an Oakley H5 double sided edge sander for more general belt sanding type work, but that will have to wait for a shop with more space and maybe a wide belt then as well for the more voluminous and monotonous work, but I don’t think I’d waste my time and money with anything smaller than a 37”.

I ask this only because I’m kind of confused - What is the problem you’re trying to solve with a wide belt and do you really need one?

[derek labian]

I have never felt the need for a wide belt building furniture and I do this for a living. Cabinetry, countertops, doors and other architectural millwork, yes, there can be tremendous value and time savings in a wide belt for that work, but I just don’t see it for small scale furniture work unless you build furniture in multiples / batches and are doing it for a living. Not sure if you’re a hobbyist or doing it to put food on the table.

I suppose it depends on the scale and type of furniture you’re building, but I get by in my shop with a stable of nice Festool random orbital sanders and a dust extractor. When I do cabinetry stuff and millwork I am dreaming about a wide belt, but I currently have no space for such a machine. For furniture work I am typically going from the planer to 150 or 180 grit with a Festool ETS EC150 and going up the grits from there. I don’t know that I’d call if fast, but it works and only gets called into question when there are tons and tons of parts which can get cumbersome and tiring with an orbital sander.

I’d love to have something like an Oakley H5 double sided edge sander for more general belt sanding type work, but that will have to wait for a shop with more space and maybe a wide belt then as well for the more voluminous and monotonous work, but I don’t think I’d waste my time and money with anything smaller than a 37”.

I ask this only because I’m kind of confused - What is the problem you’re trying to solve with a wide belt and do you really need one?

Need is relative. I am bot doing this to put food on the table, but i would like to do it professionally into retirement, so some of that is what people ask for. Even with furniture, there are lots of parts to sand, which is why i was considering the 16” wide belt. It seemed like i could easily sand most small parts and some larger parts. Since time is my biggest restriction, paying to speed up any sanding is a nice bonus. There is also the possibility of uneven sanding etc. i have been looking at a drum sander for some time but everyone says go wide belt if you can…

[Jim Andrew]

I have the 15" Grizzly 5hp, and have no problems with it making flat panels. I do not usually go over 24" panels, and the open end sands those panels flat. Really glad I bought a new open end sander. If I had a commercial shop with a lot of square feet, would want one of the 37", but for a home shop, the open end 15" is great.

[derek labian]

I've been researching this only to find out that the rabbit hole goes deep. You can't just buy a wide belt sander without really learning all about how it works so you can make the right configuration choices. I'm not sure how one really gets that knowledge as from what I've read, many commercial customers with wide belts may not even be buying, using, or configuring the machines properly...

[Kevin Jenness]

I've been researching this only to find out that the rabbit hole goes deep. You can't just buy a wide belt sander without really learning all about how it works so you can make the right configuration choices. I'm not sure how one really gets that knowledge as from what I've read, many commercial customers with wide belts may not even be buying, using, or configuring the machines properly...

There is a lot of good info on the subject here https://surfprepsanding.com/articles/

[Erik Loza]

I've been researching this only to find out that the rabbit hole goes deep. You can't just buy a wide belt sander without really learning all about how it works so you can make the right configuration choices. I'm not sure how one really gets that knowledge as from what I've read, many commercial customers with wide belts may not even be buying, using, or configuring the machines properly...

YUP!

WB's are probably the most application-specific machine in our industry. On the surface, they are pretty basic machine in terms of what they do. In fact, you don't really even need a technician to set one up correctly. However, there is a whole range of potential applications that will dictate how the machine is configured. Believe this or not, I actually had to complete both an in-person and advanced online training program in order to be able to sell them. There are literally dozens of possible configuration within the same frame, depending on what the customer is wanting to accomplish. That's why it's a bit of a minefield to shop for one. That being said, a "basic" 37-inch single-head unit with some type of pneumatic pressure control on the platen is really enough for most shop needs. Most every shop I visit just uses theirs for calibration sanding finished faceframes and that sort of thing. Unless someone is planning to do lacquer sanding, MDF, or aggressive stock removal, simpler is better.

Erik

[Randy Heinemann]

To me, it depends on the frequency of use and for what the sander will be used. I bought a 16-32 Supermax because my need for anything wider is almost never and my use of the sander period is infrequent. The times I've used it and the testing I did of boards wider than 16" give great results. With heavy use, though, a heavier duty machine might be a better buy.