Newbie capacity question

[Tom Jones III]

I'm going through the analysis for purchasing my first lathe and I'm a little confused about the sizes of bowls different lathes can turn. Right now I'm leaning towards the Jet 1442 but how big of a bowl can this really turn? The swing over the bed is (obviously) 14" but the swing over the tool rest is only 10". Does this mean that I can only turn 10" bowls? How often are you turning something without using the tool rest? Do I set up a free standing rest?

[Brad Schmid]

Tom,

You can usually find a way to position the banjo such that it doesn't interfere with the turning if the turning is shallow (a few inches deep - depending on length of tool rest itself). Anything any deeper and the banjo will have to be under the turning, limiting the swing. You can't turn without the tool rest.

If I remember correctly, the 1442 has a sliding headstock which in theory will allow you to slide it to the end and turn with a freestanding rest. (This is another subject altogether and you can find it discussed here before if you do a search. There are some saftey factors to be concerned about with a freestanding rest. I use a PM freestanding rest which weighs about 180 lbs and am comfortable with it in most situations, but some are not.) However, again if I remember correctly, the 1442 has the motor mounted on the back side of the headstock and it protrudes toward the tailstock and behind the spindle, so there is I think a swing limitation there between the spindle and the motor housing, especialy if you were to reverse chuck a bowl where a larger diameter is oriented behind the face of the chuck.

Hope this helps,
Brad

[Tom Jones III]

Thanks, that clears things up some.

[Jim Becker]

Swing over the bed is your maximum capacity...you can always move the tool rest base around, even if you have to dismount your chuck/faceplate temporarily to do it. While you "can" move the headstock on some lathes like the 1442, they really don't have the weight and power to turn things much larger than their inboard capacity and Brad sorta eludes to the fact that a free-standing tool rest base can be a real bone of contention with many folks....they can be unsafe for heavy cutting even when they weigh a ton. The forces that are generated are really "up there".

I turned a not-quite 10" diameter column 24" long on my old 10" swing machine (Oneway 1018) using a shop-built rest system that was able to attach directly to the machine base. I also turned several bowls that were just a hair under 10" on that machine by just moving the rest base around as mentioned above.

[Carole Valentine]

You can always try something like the Nova DVR which has a swiveling headstock. You can also get an outboard attachment for it.

[John Timberlake]

I have the Jet 1442 and just turned a platter/bowl that was 13 1/2" diameter and about 2 1/2" high. I had to swing the head about 20 degrees out from the bed to get it trued up to round and do most of the rough turning. No problem after that with the rest of the turning.

You could also move the tool rest to the far left of the bed and put the head nearer the center. Using the extension to the tool rest, you could turn even bigger items. You would only have to worry about the stability of the rest with the extension since it might vibrate some.

[Jim Becker]

John brings up a good point...items like platters which don't have a lot of mass can safely be done outboard like that on the 1442 or similar lathe. I wouldn't suggest the same for a heavy bowl or vessel...the machine doesn't have enough weight to operate that way safely or without potentially walking the whole thing across the room. (Something you can do even with a 900 lb high-end lathe with a big, out of balance blank)

[Tom Jones III]

Thanks for the continuing education. I understand what John is saying, that makes a lot of sense. I'm guessing that my wife will be turning larger bowls, for example the first thing she wants to try is a bowl 11.5" in diameter roughly 5.5" deep. This sounds like it is approaching capacity for safely executing on the 1442.

If the first project is pushing the limits, then I wonder if I should get the 1642. But then again, if you are going to spend $2k why not get the PM3520 for $2500?

[Brad Schmid]

...I wonder if I should get the 1642. But then again, if you are going to spend $2k why not get the PM3520 for $2500?

Since you brought it up...
You have now come face to face with what turners affectionately refer to as "the slippery slope" :eek: :D Welcome:rolleyes:

I can directly speak to these 2 machines as I was in the same situation about 3 yrs ago. At that time, the 1642 was just arriving in the US, and the PM3520 was a bit higher in price than it is now. I ended up with the 1642-2hp for 2 reasons:

1) I occasionally turn single piece walking canes and I needed 42" bed length more than 20" swing over bed.
2) The PM 3520 was at least a $900 difference back then, and I knew I wanted to reserve some cash for more tools and accessories.

That's just me. I'm sure you can come up with your own argument based on what you plan to do and really, they're both a great choice.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Tom can I ask where you found the PM 3520 for $2500. All I have found is around $2900 to $3000. Woodcraft has the Jet 1642 for $1799. Thanks.

[Andy Hoyt]

Tom can I ask where you found the PM 3520 for $2500. All I have found is around $2900 to $3000. Woodcraft has the Jet 1642 for $1799. Thanks.

Jeez, Bernie! Not even a month and you're already laying the foundation for an Upgrade Gloat.

Very Impressive, my friend.

[Jim Becker]

I'm guessing that my wife will be turning larger bowls, for example the first thing she wants to try is a bowl 11.5" in diameter roughly 5.5" deep.

If by "first project" you mean "FIRST project"...umm...walk before running. Big things are not a good idea and will often result in disappointment and even safety concerns. Turn smaller things first if there is little or no experience in turning.

[Bernie Weishapl]

I agree with Jim. Don't jump right in with a 14" bowl for your first project. I just turned my first bowl yesterday. Notice I said first. I started with a 10" X 4 1/2" blank. I cut it down to 8" X 3" because I had a little trouble getting a handle on this thing and you would not believe the difference cutting it down in size made. I will go for bigger later. Start small turning pens and small bowls if you have never turned before. Now if you are a seasoned turner then disregard. Just my $1.298.

[Dick Strauss]

Tom,
It sounds like you decided on the Jet. I wanted to let you know that Delta makes a 12" cast iron extension that is quite stout. The extension mounts in the 1" hole in the banjo. Then the tool rest mounts in the 1" hole in the extension. This is supposed to get around the problem you mentioned about 14" capacity with the banjo getting in the way. The combination can also be used for outboard turning where the headstock is turned 90*.

The extension came stock on the Delta 1440 that I bought. I haven't really used it to know how well it works but I do know it will hold 200lbs with little deflection. I'm sure it is available for purchase or you could have a good welder make you up something similar with 1"+ O1 rod.

[Jim Becker]

One thing about the extension that Dick mentions...the force generated from a "nifty catch" can break a cast tool rest base as some folks have found out. Using the extension can amplfy that force and make it easier to do the same. Be careful if you choose to use it. The extensions are best for light scraping on things like large platters.

[Tom Jones III]

Thanks to everyone for all the help. I took LOML in to the store yesterday to put our hands on the lathes we were considering. After looking carefully at all the options, kicking tires, etc. I asked her opinion. She said "Well, I guess you better get the big one, we won't be happy with anything else". By big one, she meant the PM 3520B. Could you ask for anything more in a wife?

We had it delivered for $35 the same day. That comes out to $0.046 per pound, a good deal in my book. They set it down right where I wanted it with the legs already bolted on to the bed. Lots of fun and the machine is wonderful.

[Brad Schmid]

Congratulations Tom! I don't think you'll be disappointed. We'll be looking forward to seeing posts of the future works eminating from it;)

BTW - Your wife is a keeper!:D and the $35 was worth every penny!

[Andy Hoyt]

I can really admire a guy and his wife who stand at the edge of the Slippery Slope and says, "The heck with this!"; and jumps straight to the bottom.

Of course, now that you're waaaaaay down here with the rest of us, you're soon to discover the joy associated with peering down into the Agonizing Abyss.

[Jim Becker]

Aw, right! Give that gal some roses...or maybe some expensive...umm...burl. :)

[Doug Jones]

By big one, she meant the PM 3520B.

As I'm sure you have already found out, you'll love this lathe. I've had mine for about a week now and its the bomb.



Tom can I ask where you found the PM 3520 for $2500. All I have found is around $2900 to $3000. Woodcraft has the Jet 1642 for $1799. Thanks.
Got mine from "Tool Nut (dot) com" for $2500 and change, free shipping also.

[Tom Jones III]

Got mine from "Tool Nut (dot) com" for $2500 and change, free shipping also.[/quote]

Although all I have done on mine so far is make a cylinder out of a square, it is obvious that this is a high quality machine.

I think their catalog has a $2500 price, but mine ended up at $2700 from the Cutting Edge http://www.cuttingedgetools.com. They are about 15' drive from my house, and on the way home from work. They are good people, the owner Steve has never steered me wrong and does not try to oversell.

They also have someone local who builds mobile bases for these lathes. It looks so good that I thought it came straight from PM. I think they run for around $250.

[Jim Becker]

Steve is a good guy...I've talked to him at shows and also bought some tooling from him. I'm glad you gave him your support.

[Dick Strauss]

Jim,
thanks for the warning on the tool rest extensions!

Dick

[George Troy Hurlburt]

I would go like Carole suggested. The Nova DVR would fit your needs for a long time to come. 16" swing, Computer controlled speed, 1 1/4" x 8 thread, Swivel head, outboard capacity, length can be added, etc. You won't be wanting to upgrade with a machine like this. I have wasted big bucks on not getting the machines I should have got in the first place and it is not just the lathes I'm talking about. GT

[Brad Schmid]

Well Tom, I see your from right here in Southwest Houston then! I work in Sugarland about 5 minutes from Steve's store.

So here's the deal, you need to come join us for "first monday". It's held(obviously) the first monday of each month at The Cutting Edge from 7-9pm. woodturners from the area get together for a few hours of turning, teaching, learning, and good conversation (not to mention tool buying:D ). He usually has 3 or 4 lathes available for whoever wants to turn and the crowd is generally pretty small (4-8 people).

Hope you'll join us sometime.
Cheers,
Brad

[Tom Jones III]

LOML and I plan on being there "first Monday" in Feb.

[Cecil Arnold]

Tom, you better keep that wife, understanding ones like that are few and far between. I'm also glad to see you supporting Steve, he's a really nice guy and I agree, he has never steered me wrong. While I haven't made a first Monday yet (two pops on the tollway from Clear Lake and I'm tight) I may see you there in Feb. Oh, yes. Congratulations on the 3520B, I watched Steve's sons putting one together with the MB the last time I was there. It looks almost like mine (A).

[Brad Schmid]

Great guys, I'm looking forward to meeting 2 more fellow SMCer's:cool: