How necessary is a torque wrench for knife rotation?

[Ken Platt]

Folks - I'm rotating the knives on my spiral cutterheads, both jointer and planer, for the first time. The recommendation is to tighten the screws with a torque wrench, set at 48-50 inch pounds.

Problem is, this is the very lowest setting on my torque wrench, and it's a 3/8", so in order to use it for a torx screw, I have to use the 3/8" to 1/4" drive adapter, then the socket itself, then the torx bit in the socket. I think between this low setting on the wrench, and the play in having the adapter, socket, and bit attached, the wrench just isn't working, meaning it doesn't click. (It seems to clicks as it should if I test it on a regular nut-head bolt with a socket attached directly). I managed to strip one screw with it, too.

So, to make this work, it seems I'd need a lower-range torque wrench with a torx bit socket, which'll end up running maybe $60 or so total. I'm always very happy to buy more tools, but I do try not to buy stuff I don't really need and will not use much. (To be fair, my record on tool purchasing that way is pretty mixed...)

So I'm wondering if anyone's done this job without the torque wrench, just tightening the screws by feel, and how did it work out? Thanks -

Ken in Granby, CT

[Brian Runau]

I have never changed these, but I did work in the mechanical power transmission industry and if a manufacturer says to do that it is for safety. You will need to change these over the years, might as well have the right tool. Brian

[Brian Holcombe]

Fix-it sticks are probably a good way to go on this.

[Warren Lake]

Years back a finishing expert told me he did a seminar and a few people said they didnt need gauges as they could tell the pressure they were spraying at. He called them on that and non of them were right. I had one wagon in to a shop id never gone to for a cert.

All was marginal as id already had it apart and did adjustments. I figured it would fail. It passed he said it was a great car. When I took the wheels off on one side I broke my bar. Clearly wheels put on with an air gun., other side so loose not sure they were even torqued on. Moron.

I like calipers and I like torque wrenches even for the peace of mind. As long as its in good shape and calibration checked every once in a while,

[Ronald Blue]

Get a 1/4" drive torque wrench. The problem is when you are at the minimum setting it may not be accurate even though it's supposed to be. Think of it like a pressure gage. You need 11 psi and it starts at 10. Can you be sure it's responding accurately? It's so close to the range limit that it is unreliable. My experience is also it's such a "light click" it's easy to miss. Just my .02. A 20-200 inch lb at Oreilly's is $30.

[Warren Lake]

yeah thats why when you use a dial you dont start from zero you preload it first some amount then zero it. Have no experience with those inserts. Ive asked about shaper spindle torque a whole number of times and silence.

[Andrew Hughes]

When I had a jointer with inserts I rotated the inserts plus a whole new set without a torque wrench. I did have trouble with some of the threads and had to chase them with a tap. But I didn’t break a insert
I do not have a jointer with a insert head anymore.
I do have a planer with inserts I bought the fax max torque wrench because I was breaking a lot of inserts.
Good Luck

[Scott Winners]

I have a small torque wrench, it ranges from 10-60 in/lb. Mine is a few years old but the price tag on it is $54.95, found in the long range riflery area of a sporting goods store.

In this situation I think of it as safety gear. If one of those cutters comes off it will -most likely- bounce around inside the machine and possibly cause me to wet your pants. If it gets loose in the shop at whatever speed it could be a big deal.

Alternatively, compared to the annual deductible on my health insurance, or the copay for an ER visit, $60 for a torque wrench seems cheap.

[Ron Citerone]

Yeah, I am with the others who think you should just buy the wrench.

[Mark Bolton]

Watch any video out there with people running 250K-1.5M machining centers. Very few if any bother with tourque'ing inserts that are working in the several tenths range (0.0005). Its not necessary. Search Edge Precision on Youtube. working in the tenths range by default and never torques inserts. This has been beaten to death here. Use the search function before you post and you'll most likely find your answer.

[Ron Citerone]

Mark, you make a great point. I agree that may be the right path for an experienced person. The OP, by asking the question has some doubt so that is why if I were him, I would buy the wrench for peace of mind.

[Bill Space]

OK.

But to the OP. Just buy the damn proper size torque wrench. They are not that expensive.

How long do you expect to live?

That will be the only question as far as payback.

Just do it the right/best way. Not rocket science...

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Some things, like carbide, are brittle. A slight over torque will fracture them. Professionally I had 3 torque wrenches that were calibrated annually. Retired, I have 3 different torque wrenches at home. I bought one for torquing the carbide cutters on my Grizzly G0490X jointer. The replacement carbide bits cost $46.90 for a 10 pack. A beam type 1/4" inch pound torque wrench runs approximately $25 on Amazon and a digital one can be had for less than the cost of a 10 pack of carbide cutter bits. It's your choice.

[mike stenson]

A CDI TorqueControl is 2-8 Nm, your spec is 5.5. They're reasonably priced (for a CDI), reliable and easy to use because they are torque limiting tools. They hold standard 1/4" hex bits. They include a couple T25 bits with it. I have that, some fix it sticks, and actually several other torque wrenches that can work in this range. The CDI is my go-to.

[Tom M King]

What is the stated proper torque? It might be possible that a gold club head adjustment tool would work, but I don't have any insert heads, so have no idea about the torque.

https://www.amazon.com/Torque-Wrench-Adapter-Lightweight-Adjustment/dp/B08T752S7X/ref=asc_df_B08T752S7X/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=507775511471&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9906243992346743690&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9009786&hvtargid=pla-1266133989577&psc=1 They click, and release at the target torque.

I like my inch pound Gearwrench torque wrench- forget what it cost, but not a whole lot.

I bought a set of Snap On torque wrenches that came from a race team sale. They go up to a 1" drive 1500 lb. one. The 1" bolts holding the loader on a tractor called for something like 1152 ft./lbs. The 1500 lb wrench uses pipes for the handles. I called my Wife to help me torque those 1" bolts, because I was on the end of every pipe I had, a good 12' away, and couldn't see the gauge. She was on her way to Yoga class, and dressed for it. She was bent over, looking at the gauge, and holding the end of the 13" long 1" drive extention, just as calmly as could be, calling out, "Keep going, keep going, keep going, stop.", while I was worrying with a Lot of my weight on the bending pipes. I was glad when we got there.

[Tom Bain]

I have two Felder machines with spiral cutter-heads ... they were/are expensive machines ... I bought the proper torque wrench, and didn't think twice about it.

[Rod Sheridan]

Buy a torque screwdriver, much more convenient for such a low torque, and yes you need to torque the screws.

Torque specifications are for clean, dry threads…..Rod

[Ronald Blue]

Watch any video out there with people running 250K-1.5M machining centers. Very few if any bother with tourque'ing inserts that are working in the several tenths range (0.0005). Its not necessary. Search Edge Precision on Youtube. working in the tenths range by default and never torques inserts. This has been beaten to death here. Use the search function before you post and you'll most likely find your answer.

I used to run some of those in years past. I never torqued an insert either. That said though... They put a spec and recommend a torque for tightening because not everyone has the mechanical touch to know how tight they are getting things. It seems second nature to most but there are always some that will put a cheater pipe on the wrench. When I put the helical head on my jointer recently I checked the 2 inserts that were missing/damaged against the other inserts. I actually checked every insert to make sure they were all tight.

[Richard Coers]

Watch any video out there with people running 250K-1.5M machining centers. Very few if any bother with tourque'ing inserts that are working in the several tenths range (0.0005). Its not necessary. Search Edge Precision on Youtube. working in the tenths range by default and never torques inserts. This has been beaten to death here. Use the search function before you post and you'll most likely find your answer.
That's not my experience at all. I don't need youtube verification since I worked in a factory on those kinds of machining centers. In production situations where 1.5M machining centers are being used, there are tool rooms with precision stands to locate and hold the spindle adapter and the tooling is torqued down by a skilled tool technician so the holder will go to the machine operator to install into the automatic tool changer. No one guesses on critical tooling about the torque. Certainly not at Caterpillar Inc where I worked.
What's the issue of spending even $100 when you are working on a $300 cutter head in a $2,000 machine with a lot of brittle carbide inserts being held to it?

[Warren Lake]

when Ed PInk and Keith Black built dragster motors all was torqued. A friend sent his 911 motor there for machining then built it himself taking it apart six times before he had what he wanted Some people pay attention to detail and they are the ones I want not the moron that put the wheels back on my roadmaster. If I was somewhere in the country and got a flat and could not put a spare on just cause a moron put wheels back id be stuck as im the only one on earth who does not have a cell phone. Im still waiting till they make shoe phones. Maybe Max is done with his.

[andrew whicker]

Fix-it sticks are probably a good way to go on this.

Those are pretty cool.

[glenn bradley]

There is a good history of threads about folks having finish issues after rotation. Many had failed to use a torque wrench. There were also degrees of what folks thought a "clean" insert seat looked like. I have rotated a few times on different machines andit goes something like this:

Make sure anyone who is home knows not to bug you.
Put on some relaxing music.
Have a small table or work surface nearby to place thing on as you move through the process.
Confirm current insert position (if yours don't have a corner indicator of numbers, mark them before you start).
Remove insert(s) and drop into a small bowl of cleaner to soak.
Spray a bit of mineral spirits on the seat area and brush clean.
Wipe with a paper towel (change towels often).
Blow off seat with compressed air.
Brush, wipe and blow off insert as required.
Place rotated insert and finger tighten screw.
Torque to 55 inch pounds (IIRC) and move along.

Plenty of variations as suits you. Getting the insert and the seat clean, clean, clean before torquing is your key to success ;-)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEOjo0imqKE

[Kevin Jenness]

"Dead-on balls accurate?"

"It's an industry term."

Case closed.

[Ken Platt]

Folks, I appreciate the discussion and suggestions.

I had actually gone ahead and ordered the 1/4" torque wrench, and torx socket bits, after the first few replies. It's actually my inclination to always get the perfect tool; I guess I just wanted to hear that I wasn't being overly perfectionist.

Rod, I didn't even know there was such a thing as a torque screwdriver, and if amazon hadn't already shipped my order, I'd change to one of those. Perfect for this job.

Glenn, thanks for sharing your procedure. I've taken maybe 1/4 of the inserts off the jointer so far, and have been cleaning them with a toothbrush and fine abrasive pad, clutching them in a death grip with two fingers. Most of them have a little line of adherent stuff under the cutting edge that had been in use. No idea why I didn't think of just putting them in some cleaner. Which do you use? I've got a lifetime supply of simple green, the one that's supposed to be ok for carbide, so I'll likely use that. Also, My Cousin Vinny is one of my favorite movies. Great one liner: "You were serious about that?"

Tom, you are a brave man. In my experience, asking my wife for things of this sort has sometimes ended ....poorly. In fact, I have made a pact with my best friend that we will always call each other rather than ask our wives to hold/lift/push/etc.

Ken in Granby, CT

[Ronald Blue]

I bought a set of Snap On torque wrenches that came from a race team sale. They go up to a 1" drive 1500 lb. one. The 1" bolts holding the loader on a tractor called for something like 1152 ft./lbs. The 1500 lb wrench uses pipes for the handles. I called my Wife to help me torque those 1" bolts, because I was on the end of every pipe I had, a good 12' away, and couldn't see the gauge.

I was wondering how long a 1" torque wrench would have to be. Have you ever used a torque multiplier? Great tools. With a variety of items that required high torque amounts in my railroad career the multiplier was a life saver. A 16 to 1 multiplier allowed a 1/2" torque wrench to achieve the required 2400 ft lbs of torque. Just wanted to mention that. This link is for reference. I don't remember them being nearly this expensive.
northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200850782_200850782?utm_source=bing_PPC&utm_medium=Hand%20Tools_Feed&utm_campaign=104597_Proto%20Torque%20Multiplier&utm_content=Proto%20Torque%20Multiplier&cmpid=268282500&agid=1179776867630679&tgtid=kwd-73736184794951:loc-190&msclkid=ce142ad69fb21e284d5f4b6367da0df8

[Curt Harms]

Some things, like carbide, are brittle. A slight over torque will fracture them. Professionally I had 3 torque wrenches that were calibrated annually. Retired, I have 3 different torque wrenches at home. I bought one for torquing the carbide cutters on my Grizzly G0490X jointer. The replacement carbide bits cost $46.90 for a 10 pack. A beam type 1/4" inch pound torque wrench runs approximately $25 on Amazon and a digital one can be had for less than the cost of a 10 pack of carbide cutter bits. It's your choice.

Good ol' Harbor Freight. $19.99 for 1/4" click torque wrench. 20-200 in. lbs. I have a HF 3/8" torque wrench, the spec is +-4%

[Brian Holcombe]

Personally, I just clean the seat with a shop towel and compressed air, visually inspect for grit/dust and rotate the insert. Same on Tersa but obviously without the rotation part.

[Thomas Wilson]

Folks - I'm rotating the knives on my spiral cutterheads, both jointer and planer, for the first time. The recommendation is to tighten the screws with a torque wrench, set at 48-50 inch pounds.

Problem is, this is the very lowest setting on my torque wrench, and it's a 3/8", so in order to use it for a torx screw, I have to use the 3/8" to 1/4" drive adapter, then the socket itself, then the torx bit in the socket. I think between this low setting on the wrench, and the play in having the adapter, socket, and bit attached, the wrench just isn't working, meaning it doesn't click. (It seems to clicks as it should if I test it on a regular nut-head bolt with a socket attached directly). I managed to strip one screw with it, too.

So, to make this work, it seems I'd need a lower-range torque wrench with a torx bit socket, which'll end up running maybe $60 or so total. I'm always very happy to buy more tools, but I do try not to buy stuff I don't really need and will not use much. (To be fair, my record on tool purchasing that way is pretty mixed...)

So I'm wondering if anyone's done this job without the torque wrench, just tightening the screws by feel, and how did it work out? Thanks -

Ken in Granby, CT
Get a torque wrench at a bicycle store. Carbon frames specify low torques for most bolts and they mean it. There was a rash of handlebars coming off bikes a few years ago.
Here is the one I have.
https://www.parktool.com/product/ratcheting-click-type-torque-wrench-tw-5-2

[Tom M King]

I bought a set of Snap On torque wrenches that came from a race team sale. They go up to a 1" drive 1500 lb. one. The 1" bolts holding the loader on a tractor called for something like 1152 ft./lbs. The 1500 lb wrench uses pipes for the handles. I called my Wife to help me torque those 1" bolts, because I was on the end of every pipe I had, a good 12' away, and couldn't see the gauge.

I was wondering how long a 1" torque wrench would have to be. Have you ever used a torque multiplier? Great tools. With a variety of items that required high torque amounts in my railroad career the multiplier was a life saver. A 16 to 1 multiplier allowed a 1/2" torque wrench to achieve the required 2400 ft lbs of torque. Just wanted to mention that. This link is for reference. I don't remember them being nearly this expensive.
northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200850782_200850782?utm_source=bing_PPC&utm_medium=Hand%20Tools_Feed&utm_campaign=104597_Proto%20Torque%20Multiplier&utm_content=Proto%20Torque%20Multiplier&cmpid=268282500&agid=1179776867630679&tgtid=kwd-73736184794951:loc-190&msclkid=ce142ad69fb21e284d5f4b6367da0df8

I looked at torque multipliers, when I was working on that tractor, but ran across a set of three Snap On ones for $300-the kind with a gauge. The 1500 lb. one was marked for calibration only, but I needed to use it. I have some pictures, somewhere.

Here is one of the three. It's over 3' long. I forget the limits of the other two, but they're 1", and 3/4" drive. One handle came with them. It goes into the end, and you use a pipe over that. Those are 5-1/2" wide decking boards, and a regular sized railroad spike.

edited to add: After looking at the picture, that's not the big one. That's the 800 pound one. The 1500 pound one is significantly larger. They didn't even have scratches on them.

[mike stenson]

Get a torque wrench at a bicycle store. Carbon frames specify low torques for most bolts and they mean it. There was a rash of handlebars coming off bikes a few years ago.
Here is the one I have.
https://www.parktool.com/product/ratcheting-click-type-torque-wrench-tw-5-2

That's what I bought the CDI one I referenced for. About $50, certified, can be recalibrated. CDI is snap ons torque wrench subsidiary.

[Edwin Santos]

One of these is $20 on Amazon. I got the 5 Nm one, for use on the spiral cutterhead on a Hammer A3-31.
Yes, it's designed for bicyclists, and I keep it in the box with other stuff related to the A3-31 so I know where to find it when I need it.

Can't imagine buying an expensive machine like that and deciding to forego the manufacturer's recommendation over $20.

469721

[Ole Anderson]

Two ugga tuggas per insert...:)

[Bruce Page]

Attached is a set of “torque wrenches” supplied by Valenite, a major supplier of insert tooling for the machining industry. The torque was whatever you could generate using your thumb & forefinger. I never had an insert come loose or break using them. They were fine for tightening 3-4 inserts, I wouldn’t want to tighten 30+ inserts using one. The most important factor is not to over tighten – hard to do with feel.

[Mark Bolton]

Attached is a set of “torque wrenches” supplied by Valenite, a major supplier of insert tooling for the machining industry. The torque was whatever you could generate using your thumb & forefinger. I never had an insert come loose or break using them. They were fine for tightening 3-4 inserts, I wouldn’t want to tighten 30+ inserts using one. The most important factor is not to over tighten – hard to do with feel.

The point of those flag style wrenches is that it takes nearly nothing to hold the insert in. If someone is tightening an insert to the point of fracturing the insert they just havent done their homework. A torque wrench will of course have saved them but it teaches them nothing. You can change out inserts fast with a simple screwdriver style torx but infact those flag style wrenches have the nipple/stud on the end so you can speed the screw in/out super fast with thumb/index and I would almost argue that style is far faster. Break it with the flag, spin out super fast with the nipple/stud, reverse operation.

Again, inserts are indexed on huge face mills doing far more precision work than anything we will come close to dozens of times a day with nothing more than a screwdriver and a blast of air. But we can overcomplicate it all we want.

[Bruce Page]

The point of those flag style wrenches is that it takes nearly nothing to hold the insert in. If someone is tightening an insert to the point of fracturing the insert they just havent done their homework. A torque wrench will of course have saved them but it teaches them nothing. You can change out inserts fast with a simple screwdriver style torx but infact those flag style wrenches have the nipple/stud on the end so you can speed the screw in/out super fast with thumb/index and I would almost argue that style is far faster. Break it with the flag, spin out super fast with the nipple/stud, reverse operation.

Again, inserts are indexed on huge face mills doing far more precision work than anything we will come close to dozens of times a day with nothing more than a screwdriver and a blast of air. But we can overcomplicate it all we want.

Exactly. I have changed out hundreds, if not thousands of inserts when I was on the floor, and never used a torque wrench. That said, I don't think I ever changed out more than a dozen at a time.

[Brian Holcombe]

Mark’s approach is generally how I do this task as well, using the flag handle drivers. Can’t say I have ever torqued an insert to spec. That said, the fix-it sticks are fast and effective, so if you haven’t developed the touch for this and are afraid of potential failure, then those are an option.

Using an actual torque wrench seems pretty slow. Wouldn’t spend all day doing this task.

I clean the seats with compressed air.

[Erik Loza]

I have never seen this formally recommended but I would also consider using a tiny dab of anti-seize paste on the threads of each screw. Not enough to sling out, just a tiny bit on a toothpick. I have seen enough machines where owners stripped out the torx screws, since it is sometimes years between rotating those inserts.

Erik

[Ronald Blue]

I have never seen this formally recommended but I would also consider using a tiny dab of anti-seize paste on the threads of each screw. Not enough to sling out, just a tiny bit on a toothpick. I have seen enough machines where owners stripped out the torx screws, since it is sometimes years between rotating those inserts.

Erik

Anti-sieze ranks up there with Dykem High spot bluing for a little dot can get more places then you dreamed possible. Behind both ears, on the tip of the nose, well you get the idea. :eek:

https://assets.testequity.com/te1/product-images/medium/190-586.01.jpg
Used a lot of this in my last job. It was worth it's weight in gold though. The next time disassembly was required you could get things apart with the gas axe. I always had choice words for the factory that assembled dry though.

[Rod Sheridan]

I have never seen this formally recommended but I would also consider using a tiny dab of anti-seize paste on the threads of each screw. Not enough to sling out, just a tiny bit on a toothpick. I have seen enough machines where owners stripped out the torx screws, since it is sometimes years between rotating those inserts.

Erik

I would check with engineering first, torques are normally specified for clean and dry threads, anti-seize compound can result in over torqued fasteners…..Rod

[Warren Lake]

Yup, ask any mechanic

One of the reasons I do stuff by the book at times is if I have an issue and call in tech guy is going to ask me if i did this or that and some are always looking for a loop hole so by doing their dance they think you actually care.

[Mark Bolton]

Yup, ask any mechanic

One of the reasons I do stuff by the book at times is if I have an issue and call in tech guy is going to ask me if i did this or that and some are always looking for a loop hole so by doing their dance they think you actually care.

Hogwash....

[Tom M King]

Torque charts state force for dry threads, and lubricated threads. The ones I have rate the lubricated column for 30W oil. There is a slight difference between different weight oils, but if you go by that column for Anti-Seize, you won't get in trouble for this use. Anti-Seize is just grease with aluminum, and copper suspended in it, so it does offer some lubrication, but is for bearing a load, rather than moving parts like grease is used for.

I keep a squirt can of 30W oil just for this purpose in the mechanic shop, but have used the same chart for anything with Anti-Seize, and never not been able to get something out years later. This is especially important with todays aluminum engine blocks, and steel fasteners.

[Erik Loza]

+1 re. dry vs. wet torque. My hobby is working on car engines. Never had a single issue using anti-seize, torqued to factory spec. I think the problem lies where guys start using impact tools to drive fasteners with.

Erik

[Andrew Hughes]

Yup, ask any mechanic

One of the reasons I do stuff by the book at times is if I have an issue and call in tech guy is going to ask me if i did this or that and some are always looking for a loop hole so by doing their dance they think you actually care.

I agree with Warren the last rotation on my planer not one insert broke. If bryd gives us direction freely everyone can choose to follow or not. No mandate on this.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Two ugga tuggas per insert...:)That's more or less my fat brother-in-law's method.
He does "a couple of grunts past snug" & just when the little vein on his forehead is about to pop - whatever he got a wrench on shears off & he lets out an "Oh S^#". :D

[Ronald Blue]

That's more or less my fat brother-in-law's method.
He does "a couple of grunts past snug" & just when the little vein on his forehead is about to pop - whatever he got a wrench on shears off & he lets out an "Oh S^#". :D

What I have discovered in my old age is that my built in torque wrench has diminished somewhat. I'm thinking what used to be plenty tight might not be so much anymore. I used to pride myself on a strong grip and nothing being to tight for me. I think that just comes with getting older. Things that we used to do a lot of to keep our muscles toned we do less of. That and I truly did learn to do the "work smarter not harder" concept.

[Brian Holcombe]

Since this topic is somehow still rolling on….

Check out Mountz torque screwdrivers made in England. :D

[Warren Lake]

If Mongo had used a torque wrench on the wagon my breaker bar would not have snapped off. Maybe the most important reason for a torque wrench is there are some morons amongst us.

I started taking a machine apart and so far have found three loose bolts that were holding important things in place. giddy up cowboy

[Brian Holcombe]

On engine stuff any blind bolt was torqued to a spec and everything through bolt would have a sample torqued to stretch and then the others torqued to the number that yielded spec’d stretch.

Nothing wrong with hitting proper specs, especially on critical parts.

That said, speed and practicality weight into the metrics when productivity is the goal. This can be offset usually by an expensive (upfront) solution. That typically means tools with torque specs dialed in. If my shop were more than just myself I would have a spec’d torque screwdriver and a requirement that it be used for this task.

Looks expensive on its face but given the inexperience of many employees that would be one way to safeguard against broken fasteners which cost much more than the torque screwdriver.

Almost every shop I see with employees assembling things has drivers which are set to a torque spec.

All thst said, I am happy with the free solution of just using the flag wrench and not going overboard.

[Christopher Wellington]

When I rotated a few cutters on my jointer, I used a Torx screwdriver with a long shank that twists a good amount. I loosed and tightened a few of the screws to get a feel for how tight they were from the factory and went with that. No problems at all. YMMV.

Would I officially recommend that method? No.

[Mark Bolton]

If Mongo had used a torque wrench on the wagon

Torque wrench no help mongo. Mongo smarter than engineer. Knows engineer spec not tight enough. Mongo use your torque wrench as crowbar or hammer and ignores any factory spec. Mongo knows best.

[Ken Platt]

Since the thread is still going, I thought I'd add how things worked out.

I am pretty sure I'd have overtightened the screws; the torque wrench hits the designated torque (50 inch-pounds) with less effort than I'd be inclined to use if I were doing without. Might well have been different for someone with more machinist experience, which I lack.

I bought a Lexivon brand wrench, which for $33 turned out to be a very solid, smoothly working tool. As it happens, it comes with a little certificate of accuracy including the testing results, which made me think of the scene posted from My Cousin Vinny. Very good tool experience, and I'm glad I took the advice offered and bought it.

Ken in Granby, CT

[Curt Harms]

+1 re. dry vs. wet torque. My hobby is working on car engines. Never had a single issue using anti-seize, torqued to factory spec. I think the problem lies where guys start using impact tools to drive fasteners with.

Erik

Particularly when the torque of the tool exceeds the I.Q. of the user. After our annual inspections where wheels are removed and replaced, I loosen the lug nuts (using an electric torque wrench) then re-tighten using a 4 way manual wrench. I had the devil's own time getting one lug nut loose. The other 4 were fine, of course. I've had to change a tire at night - in the rain along side I 195 in Jersey. Not an experience I wish to repeat so anything I can do to speed that process is well worth doing.

[Erik Loza]

Particularly when the torque of the tool exceeds the I.Q. of the user...

YUP! Ditto here whenever I have new tires put on one of the vehicles.

Getting back to woodworking machinery, it is actually not that uncommon for fasteners to seize into place. The common fastener type in the industry seems to be this black phosphate-coated allen screw, which practically rust overnight in any sort of humid environment. One of my techs had spend another entire day at a customer's shop precisely because one of these screws stripped out. It was a nothing screw, just a lock some adjustment but sure enough, had to go find an EZ Out, drill the hole out, helicoil it, etc. I get that doing something like applying anti-seize paste to every fastener on the assembly line is totally unrealistic but I do think there is a place for it.

Erik

[Jim Dwight]

I will second the recommendation for HF torque wrenches. Some I purchased on sale for $10. I have two 1/2, a 3/8 and a 1/4. At that price why not? I've seen youtube tests where they were as accurate as Snap On. But I admit I do not do anything critical with them. I also have a screwdriver torque driver that arrived with an inspection sheet and calibration sheet. But it only goes as high as 25 inch pounds. Could be useful for a first tightening step I guess. Maybe there are others which go higher.

The only thing I did not like about my first tire purchase at Discount Tire is I asked them to reinstall the wheels with a torque wrench. I checked when I got home and they obviously did not. Some were too loose and others were too tight. I have a cordless impact driver that is rated at about 1200 ft lbs now so removing the tight ones was not an issue but I don't feel I should have to loosen and then torque my lug nuts when I get home. But their prices are good and their service was good except for this..,.. Before I got my big impact I've had to put a 4 foot pipe on my break over bar before. Not really possible by the side of the road unless you want to carry this stuff around all the time.

[Erik Loza]

Jim, I'm to the point where I actually watch them put my wheels back on. To my neighborhood Discount's credit, their seem guys use a torque wrench correctly. Regarding roadside needs, I have this telescopic lug wrench from Gorilla (?). It is almost like a telescoping breaker bar. You could stomp/stand on it if needed. I ditched the OEM T-wrench for this thing.

Erik