Orbital Sanding Discs

[Justin Rapp]

i've run low on sanding discs for my 5" sander. I usually just grab what's at the local big box store, Diablo or Norton, etc. I was looking at Klingspor and see they have 3 different discs. Aluminum Oxide, AZ-Plus Alumina Zirconia and something they call greentec.

The Aluminum Oxide I am sure is pretty much like Norton's discs. Anyone use the other two options and is it worth the cost factor?

[Jerry Wright]

Don't know about Klingspor, but Diablo mesh discs are amazing. Try a few. Sometimes they add a few to the regular disc pkgs.

[Stewart Lang]

Try supergrit.com

Excellent customer service and great prices on just about anything relating to sanding. That's where I get all my discs.

[Justin Rapp]

Don't know about Klingspor, but Diablo mesh discs are amazing. Try a few. Sometimes they add a few to the regular disc pkgs.

I do use the mesh discs for 220 grit. And yes, they are amazing but shred fast so for heavy sanding at 80 through 120 i'd prefer a cloth backed disc.

[Ed Mitchell]

Check out this recent test on YT:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZDCRFi8dKY

[Robert Engel]

Check out this recent test on YT:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZDCRFi8dKY

Its pretty good.

Went and bought a variety pack, haven't used them yet.

[George Yetka]

I have talked with a few people that say the cubitron mesh is good only if you keep it flat on panels. If you roll to soften edges or pick up a corner they break up. I still like Abranet

[Andrew Seemann]

After finally running out of my father's lifetime supply of 3M discs (he worked at 3M for 43 years) I started using Klingspor Sterate A/O discs. Not long after that I found a local source for Mirka Gold in 50 packs. I'd say both are quite good, at least equal or probably better than the 3M discs that I had been using. The 50 pack prices are reasonable for both.

[Lisa Starr]

I've got so I just run the Diablo Mesh Discs. I feel they last well, allow good dust collection, and are quickly obtained at my local HD if I've allowed myself to run out.

[Prashun Patel]

on a whim I got a pack of the diablo mesh in 120 grit. I am pretty pleased. The price is right and they are fairly durable. Some of the home centers have 50 packs with 10 free + a pad protector. I really like the dust collection.

[Mark Bolton]

Do yourself a favor and go to industrial abrasives and try Rhino. Home Depot/Diablo is whacking you like $0.60 a disc. You can buy 50 discs from an commercial abrasive supplier (they dont sell discs that suck) for less than $0.30 a disc... Your getting crushed buying any abrasives at the home center.

[Mark Bolton]

on a whim I got a pack of the diablo mesh in 120 grit. I am pretty pleased. The price is right and they are fairly durable. Some of the home centers have 50 packs with 10 free + a pad protector. I really like the dust collection.

What does the 50+10 pack cost? Here (and on a google search) the only thing I see is 10 packs with the pad protector = 1.50 a disc

** EDIT ** found them.. 50 pack is $0.50/disc

[Thomas Colson]

What ever is on sale at SUpergrit. Superb customer service, they ship faster than amazon. Even if their budget discs last half the time, they're only about 1/4 - 1/10 the cost, but even their premium stuff is cheaper than you'll get anywhere else.

[Justin Rapp]

Do yourself a favor and go to industrial abrasives and try Rhino. Home Depot/Diablo is whacking you like $0.60 a disc. You can buy 50 discs from an commercial abrasive supplier (they dont sell discs that suck) for less than $0.30 a disc... Your getting crushed buying any abrasives at the home center.

I found Rhino in Texas - will they sell to a consumer? Looks more like a business to business company. 0.30 a disc if it's quality is good.


I did watch the video and can grab 3m xtract for about 0.40 a piece from Amazon. Not so bad if it's a great paper. I'll try some.

[Ron Selzer]

I have been happy with 16x54 belts and 5" disks from 2sand.com

[Richard Coers]

I found Rhino in Texas - will they sell to a consumer? Looks more like a business to business company. 0.30 a disc if it's quality is good.


I did watch the video and can grab 3m xtract for about 0.40 a piece from Amazon. Not so bad if it's a great paper. I'll try some.
Call me skeptical, but 30 cent discs from India do not instill a great confidence in me. When I finish my Klingspor Gold, I have Mirka Autonet discs on the shelf to try. It's a thinner mesh than Abranet and is around 53 cents per discs in 50 packs.

[Justin Rapp]

Call me skeptical, but 30 cent discs from India do not instill a great confidence in me. When I finish my Klingspor Gold, I have Mirka Autonet discs on the shelf to try. It's a thinner mesh than Abranet and is around 53 cents per discs in 50 packs.iI agree, i am skeptical on a 30 cent disc, regardless of where it is from. I could understand 0.30 if i was buying large quantity. However the key to sandpaper, and the above video really points it out is how long they last per disc. I would much rather pay 50 cents a piece if over 30 if it lasts 3 times longer.

[Mark Bolton]

Call me skeptical, but 30 cent discs from India do not instill a great confidence in me. When I finish my Klingspor Gold, I have Mirka Autonet discs on the shelf to try. It's a thinner mesh than Abranet and is around 53 cents per discs in 50 packs.

https://www.indasa-abrasives.com/global/en is one of the biggest industrial abrasives suppliers to industry with a firmly established reputation in industries that would look at any of our sales as razor stubble. They are far from an "indian" abrasives company. Indasa is actually a Portuguese company (may still fit your xenophobic bent) that is far from just an abrasives company. They are a massive presences in the industrial finishing world.

But have at it and keep blowing your cash.

[Mark Bolton]

3 times longer.

You are never going to find any abrasive that last 3 times longer than any other. And P.S. I think if you look the Indasa Rhyno is actually less than $0.30 a disc lol... I just pulled a box from overstock. Gotta love self employment... what is it 930 pm? :p:D:cool:

469475469476

[Prashun Patel]

The indasa are definitely fantastic as far as conventional h&l goes. They are rugged and last long. There is nothing substandard about them. I’ve used them for about a decade now and swear by them. I also get them from 2sand.

But for the mesh discs, which are a little bit of a different animal, the diablos have impressed me. I was previously using Mirka abralon which are great too. But the less pricey diablos have been a pleasant surprise.

[Zachary Hoyt]

I've been using indasa discs for 12 or 15 years and they are good. I recently bought some 5" H&L discs from Empire Abrasives, where I always get my 12" PSA sanding discs. They seem to sand really well but they don't seem to last quite as long, but they are 30 cents a disc plus shipping so it's pretty reasonable. I wouldn't normally have bought these but I was ordering the big discs anyway, and they were having a 10% off sale so actually I guess they were 27 cents a disc.

[Mark Bolton]

The indasa are definitely fantastic as far as conventional h&l goes. They are rugged and last long. There is nothing substandard about them. I’ve used them for about a decade now and swear by them. I also get them from 2sand.

But for the mesh discs, which are a little bit of a different animal, the diablos have impressed me. I was previously using Mirka abralon which are great too. But the less pricey diablos have been a pleasant surprise.

Do us a favor. No need for a 20K Kuka robot.. do an honest test and see what your paper usage over perhaps 2 50 disc boxes and see if the mesh is 2 for one to the cloth backed. I cant say I did an honest test but we brought in 2 boxes (100 discs) of each grit, it was mirka abranet... and I honestly felt like those discs went away faster than any paper Ive ever had in the shop. And they ate pad protectors for lunch (which is why I understand diablo coming with a protector in every pack). The dust pickup was no better than a 9 hole pad, and what was worse when someone runs them (ya ya business) on a pad without the protector they destroy the pad which costs 15 bucks.

When I was running Abranet I had discs flying across the shop like frisbees because the mesh ate the hooks on the pad protectors and if someone doesnt shut down the sander when its off the work and lets it whip up the disc is airborne. Whats worse is when the the individual doesnt see the disc go airborne and then proceeds to continue sanding with just a pad protector which pretty much finishes off anything left of the pad protector (which was about zero when the disc sailed into outerspace to begin with).

At high $.020 a disc and $0.50 for mesh.. it better be smokin hot. Not my experience. But next time Im near an HD I will most definitely grab a box of 50(60) and give them a go.

Klingspor sent in a phenomenal sample pack. So nice I felt obligated to place an order. Pads dont seem so nice to me.

We sand a lot of solid surface (wet) which is not indicated with cloth indasa but it sands like there is no tomorrow and you cant find much harder to sand than solid.

[Dave Sabo]

What does the 50+10 pack cost? Here (and on a google search) the only thing I see is 10 packs with the pad protector = 1.50 a disc

** EDIT ** found them.. 50 pack is $0.50/disc

um……….40 cents a disc.

And , they’re available in close to 2000+ locations today ,right now.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/DIABLO-5-in-SandNet-Coated-Assorted-Disc-50-Pack-DND050ASTH50P/311196042

[Mark Bolton]

um……….40 cents a disc.

And , they’re available in close to 2000+ locations today ,right now.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/DIABLO-5-in-SandNet-Coated-Assorted-Disc-50-Pack-DND050ASTH50P/311196042

Yeah, As I clarified at the end of my post, I found the 50+10+the interface pad at my local branch as i stated for $0.50 a disc. If you buy them without the pad your fooling yourself.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Dude. The point was that Indasa is a company in Portugal, NOT India.

[Prashun Patel]

Discussions about sandpaper can get abrasive and rub people the wrong way.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Discussions about sandpaper can get abrasive and rub people the wrong way.

So it would appear!:D:D:D

[Patrick Kane]

That link was posted to the Felder owner's group and i watched a few minutes of it. Primarily, i scrolled to the end of the video to see who #1 was. I have loads of festool granat, but i think the tests are great for comparing. Its hard to try 50 different brands and find the right one. However, price does not always equal quality. For example, Festool Rubin is some of the worst paper on the planet. It clogs in seconds and doesnt seem to cut much after a couple minutes. Granat on the other hand freaking rocks. I havent tried the mesh products yet.

[Tom M King]

I'm glad I don't do much sanding.

[Peter Mich]

I see what you did there…pretty smooth.

[chuck van dyck]

For the love of god don’t skimp on surface prep! .60 isn’t a lot when you consider the time you’ve likely put in. Buy the good stuff with confidence and don’t look back.

[Dave Sabo]

Yeah, As I clarified at the end of my post, I found the 50+10+the interface pad at my local branch as i stated for $0.50 a disc. If you buy them without the pad your fooling yourself.


you weren’t quite accurate though. 40 cents is less than 50 and a pad protector comes included.

[Kevin Jenness]

I have been using 5" aluminum oxide 9 hole h&l discs from Klingspor that cost $.32 each plus tax & shipping in boxes of 50. I feel they are a good value and comparable to the 3M and Mirka discs I have used in the past.

For what it's worth, Klingspor's website shows production facilities in Poland (900 employees), Germany (600), Ukraine (200) and China (150). Mirka appears to do all its production in Finland. Indasa (Rhyno), a Portuguese corporation, owns a group of eight companies based in Spain, UK, France, Germany, Poland, Brazil, USA and Italy. It does not seem to be associated with Rhino Abrasive Company in India.

[Justin Rapp]

I have been using 5" aluminum oxide 9 hole h&l discs from Klingspor that cost $.32 each plus tax & shipping in boxes of 50. I feel they are a good value and comparable to the 3M and Mirka discs I have used in the past.

For what it's worth, Klingspor's website shows production facilities in Poland (900 employees), Germany (600), Ukraine (200) and China (150). Mirka appears to do all its production in Finland. Indasa, a Portuguese corporation, owns a group of eight companies based in Spain, UK, France, Germany, Poland, Brazil, USA and Italy. It does not seem to be associated with Rhino Abrasive Company in India.

Good info honestly. I ordered already - trying 3m's xtract model. Honestly after shipping from Kliingspor, it was the same price to get 3m from Amazon with free shipping.

[Warren Lake]

6" dynabrades. 3M paper, stick on, auto supplier, plus they deliver free, 3M only let me down once and they more than took care of it.

[Kevin Jenness]

Again, for what it's worth, here's a fairly recent objective though not exhaustive review of sanding discs https://www.woodmagazine.com/woodworking-tools/reviews/sanders/sanding-discs

I tried Indasa Rhyno discs about 10 years ago and hated them. I don't know if that says how subjective my assessment is or that they have improved since then, but I still have several boxes on the shelf. I may try them again. Rhyno is one of the few name brands that appear to offer 9 hole 5" discs to fit my Festool sander.

I have tried Abranet and had similar issues to Mark's. I found it harder to estimate their wear in the lower grits and using an interface pad is a necessary pain (I will say the worst pad wear occurs when I forget to put a disc on :cool:) I do like them for higher grits and sanding finishes.

[Prashun Patel]

May I purchase your unused indasa discs?

[Kevin Jenness]

May I purchase your unused indasa discs?

Sure, I'll pm you.

After watching the Youtube test posted by Ed Mitchell (blog post here https://kmtools.com/blogs/news/the-great-sandpaper-showdown-top-3-sandpapers-for-woodworking-in-2021I guess I will have to try the new 3M ceramic discs when I restock. One thing to consider is that the tester's calculation of cost per gram of wood removed considers only the abrasive cost and ignores the labor cost, which increases the relative value of the faster working discs if you put any value on your time. The Diablo mesh discs do rank pretty high on the test for both speed and value so seem to be a good choice considering big box availability.

I'd be interested to hear from people currently using the 3M Cubitron discs. The film backed discs (775L) would appear to be more durable than the Cubitron ll net discs (710W)- true? If using the mesh are you using an interface pad?

[Warren Lake]

I think they gave me the ceramic stuff to try and I never did as it was not flexible enouigh. Really depends on the kind of work you doing, I did tons of small radius sanding and you need a super light sander and some flexibility in the pad and paper. I dont remember the 3M number but they are gold and grey maybe 216U I can look later. no interface pad just paper stuck on.

[Rob Sack]

I had a commercial account with Klingspor and used all their abrasives. However, several years ago, I stopped using their PSA discs. The adhesive was so strong that even if you could get the release paper off the disc, once the disc was on the sander, you could never remove it in one piece. Once the disc was completely removed, there was still adhesive residue on the pad that had to be removed with solvent. Hopefully, Klingspor has resolved this issue.

[Warren Lake]

if you run your paper till really toast and hot sometimes the glue turns into unobtanium. Ive ruined some dynabrade pads trying to peel the sanding disc and pulling the blue material away from the foam pads.

Maybe not ruined but close started to pull them apart. I have a number of dynabrade pads where I have reduced them from 6" to some amount less on the edge sander, in that case the paper has no back up outside edges but I just fold it around the new reduced surface. Worked very well for somethings I had to sand. Yeah it sucks when you have the paper off and a gaggle of glue still remaining. A heat gun will make the paper release easier but translates to way more glue left on the pad.

[Mark Bolton]

you weren’t quite accurate though. 40 cents is less than 50 and a pad protector comes included.

Again, available at my local branch, and whatever I see on-line with a search for SandNet, is that a 50+10+free pad is available for $0.40. Assortments are useless to me. All others in specific grits are $0.50 free pad. Pads are about $5.00 which i buy now in 5 packs for less than $4 each. Im likely not the best HomeDepot search user.

[Mark Bolton]

um……….40 cents a disc.

And , they’re available in close to 2000+ locations today ,right now.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/DIABLO-5-in-SandNet-Coated-Assorted-Disc-50-Pack-DND050ASTH50P/311196042

Correct, and when you click on anything other than the assortment, you are only offered 120, 180, and 320, and ONLY the assortmnet is $0.40, the mere 3 straight grits are $0.50. Thats what Im seeing bubba. Its called the hook bubba. Oldest game in the book.

[Kevin Jenness]

However the key to sandpaper, and the above video really points it out is how long they last per disc. I would much rather pay 50 cents a piece if over 30 if it lasts 3 times longer.

The linked video shows not just how long they last but what is the stock removal rate over time. The best discs cut much faster than the lesser rated ones and the cutting rate decreases more slowly. I definitely don't run my discs for 25 minutes as the effectiveness diminishes much sooner. If I paid twice as much per disc but could remove material twice as fast for the same amount of time I would be way ahead of the game as my time is valuable. Extra time per disc at an acceptable cutting rate would be that much gravy.

There are other factors to consider too, like consistency of grit size and how even the abrasive coating is applied, how tough the backing is and how well it sticks to the pad, all things that don't show up in that particular test and have to be evaluated at the bench.

[Warren Lake]

Grit consistent size is important one manufacturer threw some rocks in. People thought better it cuts faster. Same time it left deeper scratches from the rocks, just a scam.

Grit size is important in autobody polishing so you are not making and chasing some wild grit scratches. Nikken got a lot of sales based on their consistent grit size at least when people were doing water sanding of car finish stuff. I think McGuires bought them last past I used that stuff.

Always depends work you are doing. The backing all of it, i can punch through some on radius work and and. If you do production of same stuff you will know how far a quarter sheet goes just about exactly. that was when I knew same brand, same paper same grit size lost 40 percent of its balls. Nanny state and the new green. Glue was made from recycled politicians, I think it was too slippery.

[Jim Becker]

Something relevant to this discussion is that Lee Valley is kicking things up a bit with Mirka after the first of the year and their plans include being able to buy small quantities of both those products and others. They have the 3M mentioned in singles now. Having one place to try out multiple options would be a nice thing.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Grit consistent size is important one manufacturer threw some rocks in. People thought better it cuts faster. Same time it left deeper scratches from the rocks, just a scam.

Glue was made from recycled politicians, I think it was too slippery.

LOL

Grit size/consistency to me is key. I've bought those 100 grit discs with 36 grit rocks in them, and they make those squiggly lines everywhere. You (I didn't) really don't notice them until the next grit. That does take a while to sand off the squigglys. I think Indasa has the best grit size consistency. I think they last a long time too. I like them. I get mine from LeHigh Abrasives.

[Warren Lake]

kyle my brain skipped there to the other sandpaper I got that burned out fast so the second statement relates to that. It was different paper than the rock stuff.

To make sense that sandpaper was failing way faster in production use, I thought WTF, turned out it was new green stuff they used. Pointed out to them, they promptly sent me a load of new stuff same as the old stuff that id used for many years.

Thankfully they went back to the nasty solvent based stuff or found some water based granola stuff that worked. never had an issue again.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Warren I do understand the flow in your post. I just had to LOL at the politician joke..... That's why I put them on different paragraphs.

I'm STILL laughing at the slippery glue. LOL.

[Justin Rapp]

Something relevant to this discussion is that Lee Valley is kicking things up a bit with Mirka after the first of the year and their plans include being able to buy small quantities of both those products and others. They have the 3M mentioned in singles now. Having one place to try out multiple options would be a nice thing.

I sure hope they kick it up a notch. I ordered from them early on Dec 8th and got a shipping notice from them today in the late afternoon on the 10th. I know it's a smaller business and they can't keep up with the likes of automated warehouse picking like Amazon, but 2 days to get 2 of 3, (one is backordered and I am ok with that), small items in a padded envelop or small box and get it out the door is a bit slow. I know they are not Amazon, but they will die a slow death in this world of quick ship and the need for instant gratification.

[Jim Becker]

Justin, Lee Valley's US warehouse/shipping center, at least for the east, is in Up-state NY. Once an order is out the door, the actual shipping time for you and I is "generally" pretty quick. But yes, sometimes things don't get out the door as fast as would be desired. It hasn't been an issue for me to-date, but I can appreciate it when something is really needed to move a project along.

[Ronald Blue]

No dog in this fight but this test says the 3M Cubitron Xtract paper is top notch. This is an interesting video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZDCRFi8dKY

[Warren Lake]

thats a well done test and interesting results. Now give me some and let me do real world work which is not all flat, I did tons of radius work on hardwoods from 1/8 rounding and up to large. More to it when you do radius work, more so the smaller the radius as some papers just let you do better work than others. I had an email from one of the people banished from this site about sandpaper a few days ago.

I was at a speaker company years ago with Robots. In that case a whole room built for polishing high gloss. I think one night the robots banded together cause of the 24 hour work conditions and formed a union.

[Andrew Seemann]

I always wonder about the applicability of those tests, even one as well done as the robot arm. Same with the Farm guy and his rather well done tests, along with FWW tests. What I mostly wonder about, like Warren says, is how closely do those results translate to real world sanding? We know how the sandpaper performs at 10lb of pressure, but how much at 7 lb, or 12 lb? Would some perform better/worse because of different amounts of heating of the glue, or are some grains more/less friable in different situations? Are some brands/types more tolerant to how I use (misuse?) my sander? Do they perform the same with all sanders, or do different sanders have different results with different paper? Will different people get different results with the same paper?

While the best probably is better than most for most people and the worst probably less good for most people, do the middle always rank out the same? It is interesting to look at the Project Farm tests, as he did more than just removal rates. There best/worst isn't as clear with some of the later tests, with some papers that did well for straight removal, not doing as well with some of the other tests, especially the wood removal after use on metal tests.

[Justin Rapp]

I always wonder about the applicability of those tests, even one as well done as the robot arm. Same with the Farm guy and his rather well done tests, along with FWW tests. What I mostly wonder about, like Warren says, is how closely do those results translate to real world sanding? We know how the sandpaper performs at 10lb of pressure, but how much at 7 lb, or 12 lb? Would some perform better/worse because of different amounts of heating of the glue, or are some grains more/less friable in different situations? Are some brands/types more tolerant to how I use (misuse?) my sander? Do they perform the same with all sanders, or do different sanders have different results with different paper? Will different people get different results with the same paper?

While the best probably is better than most for most people and the worst probably less good for most people, do the middle always rank out the same? It is interesting to look at the Project Farm tests, as he did more than just removal rates. There best/worst isn't as clear with some of the later tests, with some papers that did well for straight removal, not doing as well with some of the other tests, especially the wood removal after use on metal tests.

I bought some of the 3M xtract discs. 120grit just showed up, 80 is a bit behind from a different shipper on Amazon. So i'll post back after trying them.