SCM Table Saw Blade Bore Spec

[derek labian]

I'm trying to find out what the bore for the main blade is on SCM ST 5ES units are. It seems like the bore should be probably 1" with a max blade size 350mm, but the manual doesn't cover this. It also doesn't cover the supported kerf range for the riving knife, but I found this elsewhere. Thanks!

[Jim Becker]

SCM Minimax sliders in the US typically take 5/8" bore main blades and yes up to 350mm/12". They do this because US machine typically will take a dado stack. I used 12" Forrest blades with 5/8" bores on the S315WS slider I owned until I moved into my temporary shop. Some 12" blades are "native" with a 1" bore and require a bushing to use on the SCM/Minimax sliders. The SCM ST 5ES is pretty much the same slider but with the addition of the spindle moulder.

I think the scoring blade is 20mm arbor.

[Erik Loza]

Elite-S was always 1-inch in my time but wasn’t there a thread recently from someone who ordered an MM and received some wacky arbor flange?

Erik

[derek labian]

SCM Minimax sliders in the US typically take 5/8" bore main blades and yes up to 350mm/12". They do this because US machine typically will take a dado stack. I used 12" Forrest blades with 5/8" bores on the S315WS slider I owned until I moved into my temporary shop. Some 12" blades are "native" with a 1" bore and require a bushing to use on the SCM/Minimax sliders. The SCM ST 5ES is pretty much the same slider but with the addition of the spindle moulder.

I think the scoring blade is 20mm arbor.

Hi Jim,

Is 350mm / 12"? It's an odd size as its 13.7" which is short of a 14" but far above a 12". I believe you can use a 14" if you don't use the scoring blade.

[derek labian]

Elite-S was always 1-inch in my time but wasn’t there a thread recently from someone who ordered an MM and received some wacky arbor flange?

Erik

Thanks for the info. You would think they would include this stuff in the manual technical specs..

[Warren Lake]

Most of the older machines ive seen have good manuals. The Italians were good about it and so were the British.

The manual for my SCM saw is over 50 pages. The good old days.

[derek labian]

Maybe I just don't know enough about what I'm looking at in the technical specs. Manual says:


Saw blade maximum diameter Øi 30 x 350 mm

So it seems likely that indicates a 30mm arbor? since "Ø" is the diameter symbol and 350mm would be the blade diameter, probably a 30mm arbor.

[derek labian]

Most of the older machines ive seen have good manuals. The Italians were good about it and so were the British.

The manual for my SCM saw is over 50 pages. The good old days.

I think it's my error for not knowing what I was looking at. The manual set has a lot of detail and weighs in at 304 pages.

[Lisa Starr]

Derek, My machine arrived with a 5/8" arbor, but a flange that requires the blade to have a 1" bore. That info was nowhere in the literature. I love the saw and it has really simplified many of the cuts I make.

[Phillip Mitchell]

Maybe I just don't know enough about what I'm looking at in the technical specs. Manual says:



So it seems likely that indicates a 30mm arbor? since "Ø" is the diameter symbol and 350mm would be the blade diameter, probably a 30mm arbor.

Based on that, yes I’d say it’s 30mm.

[Jim Becker]

Maybe I just don't know enough about what I'm looking at in the technical specs. Manual says:



So it seems likely that indicates a 30mm arbor? since "Ø" is the diameter symbol and 350mm would be the blade diameter, probably a 30mm arbor.

OK...yes, you are correct about how the spec is written, but you may want to touch bases with Sam Blasco if you are considering buying one, given historically, US bound machines didn't use the 30mm arbor. Erik brings up a good point that supports my recommendation in that there may have been some with 1" arbors rather than the 5/8" that was common on many of the US version sliders. My suggestion is also because sometimes the online specifications do not reflect US-specific configurations in the marketing materials.

And you're right about the 350mm. I should know better since I actually do most of my work in metric...my bad.

[Erik Loza]

So, it seems like there are really two separate factors in play regarding the OP's question:

-#1: Design changes made at the factory, which may not be discovered until the customer actually takes delivery of their machine.
-#2: Verifying that the machine being built has a spec actually suitable for the customer's shop (60Hz, non-Metric arbor if desired, 230V, etc.).

It seems like what Lisa experienced was Factor #1. I remember when they switched to Carter guides on the bandsaws. We had no advance warning about this and did not hear about it until customers started calling, since all the documentation showed the previously-standard "GL"-type Euro-guides. It wasn't a problem, but did catch us all off-guard.

Factor #2 is the one I would warn any customer who is planning to order a new-build machine directly from the factory to be mindful of. I assume things have not changed since I left but basically, there were two ways we sold. First would be to sell the customer a "stock configuration" machine. These configurations were essentially locked-in with the factory and we (US sales team) never messed with them: Always 230V/60Hz, 5/8" arbor on smaller saws, 1.0" on bigger ones, etc. This guaranteed we wouldn't ever have a scenario where a customer got some wacky configuration. For example, both Jim and Lisa have/had stock-configuration machines. Sure, there could be some design change like Lisa experienced, but the machine would still comply with the original spec.

Now, the second way would be for us to order a custom/new-built machine. In this scenario, I would manually write the order and submit that to the factory. But here's the catch: In my experience, they built what you told them but didn't ask many questions beyond that. Here at Felder, someone from US Sales Operations looks over every new-build order before it gets submitted to Austria. So, suppose I goofed up and ordered a saw in 400V? One of them would certainly call me and ask, "Erik, did the customer really want that?". We have a solid buffer system of trained eyes to make sure reps don't screw up customer orders. Perhaps things have changed since my time there but that layer of oversight did not exist then. They just took whatever I ordered and ran with it. I strongly suggest to anyone who is considering a new-build machine to insist on a clear chain of documentation regarding it's build configuration from the dealer/rep/whoever you are working with.

Also, pretty much any of the European manuals (Felder included) will show ALL possible configurations as far as arbor size, etc. Consider it more "reference" than "verification" I hope this all makes sense.

Erik

[derek labian]

Sam Blasco if you are considering buying one, given historically, US bound machines didn't use the 30mm arbor. Erik brings up a good point that supports my recommendation in that there may have been some with 1" arbors rather than the 5/8" that was common on many of the US version sliders. My suggestion is also because sometimes the online specifications do not reflect US-specific configurations in the marketing materials.

Good point, I hadn't considered that. I didn't want to bother Sam, he's doing some kind of training. Probably best to just wait on this one. The 30mm arbor blade is actually backordered by 3+ months by Forrest anyway.

[derek labian]

Now, the second way would be for us to order a custom/new-built machine. In this scenario, I would manually write the order and submit that to the factory. But here's the catch: In my experience, they built what you told them but didn't ask many questions beyond that. Here at Felder, someone from US Sales Operations looks over every new-build order before it gets submitted to Austria. So, suppose I goofed up and ordered a saw in 400V? One of them would certainly call me and ask, "Erik, did the customer really want that?". We have a solid buffer system of trained eyes to make sure reps don't screw up customer orders. Perhaps things have changed since my time there but that layer of oversight did not exist then. They just took whatever I ordered and ran with it. I strongly suggest to anyone who is considering a new-build machine to insist on a clear chain of documentation regarding it's build configuration from the dealer/rep/whoever you are working with.

This is so true. With the custom built configuration, you, as a customer, have to verify the configuration, however the "assembly" BOM/Configuration part numbers don't match the part numbers in the price list, or the part numbers in the brochures. So 1) its hard to verify that your getting the macro components you think your getting, and 2) the "minor" details such as arbor size, are going to be determined by the factory, you have no real input as a customer. The factory does review the custom order, but not with the customer. So long story short, you ARE really dependent on your sales contact to ensure your getting the right machine and the right configuration. I believe I'm pretty thorough but as a customer, you just don't have the right tools.

I think this is also why ordering from the Internet retailers can be problematic, they just don't have the depth of knowledge. Point and case: I had EliteMetalTools reach out some time ago, and the first piece of information they gave me was wrong; nice guy though, just wrong information.

[derek labian]

Derek, My machine arrived with a 5/8" arbor, but a flange that requires the blade to have a 1" bore. That info was nowhere in the literature. I love the saw and it has really simplified many of the cuts I make.

This is why you want to have a good support infrastructure that has accurate docs and easy to contact support. Any other oddities you found?

[Erik Loza]

...you ARE really dependent on your sales contact to ensure your getting the right machine and the right configuration....

True story recently: Delivered a K700S to a Texas customer and the sliding table was too short. 2500mm, not 2800mm like usual. We couldn't figure out how this was possible. It made no sense whatsoever. Long story, short: I spec'd and sold the machine correctly and the factory built correctly what was on their paperwork, so what happened? Order was placed during early stages of pandemic, employees newly WFH, etc. and unbeknownst to me or to the factory, we had been onboarding some new help and that person apparently just checked the wrong box when they locked the order with Austria. Fortunately, we had a spare 2800mm slider in the TX warehouse. I directed one of our techs to drive the replacement slider to the customer's site and install it. But we have a solid support infrastructure for that sort of thing. I don't know who else would cover having a tech hand-deliver and install part on standard/classical machine at their own cost, in-house error or otherwise.

Erik

[Lisa Starr]

Derek,

No other "oddities" have been noted. I also have to give my dealer a shout out, because once we were able to verify what blade configuration was needed, they supplied a blade (free of charge) with the 1" bore needed, as I had already purchased a 5/8" bore blade.

[derek labian]

but you may want to touch bases with Sam Blasco if you are considering buying one

I did in-fact already buy one which is why I was trying to ensure I had the right arbor size.


Given historically, US bound machines didn't use the 30mm arbor. Erik brings up a good point that supports my recommendation in that there may have been some with 1" arbors rather than the 5/8" that was common on many of the US version sliders. My suggestion is also because sometimes the online specifications do not reflect US-specific configurations in the marketing materials.

Just to wrap up this thread: You (or Erik, or you both) were correct, manual is euro spec, and US spec comes with 1" arbor.

[Jim Becker]

Sounds like a happy ending! 1" arbor is nice and readily available in these blade diameters, too. Lots of good choices.

[brian lam]

Derek, Im also considering an ST5ES, and just emailed Sam a huge list of questions. When do you get yours? What other options/specs did you go for?