SawsStop 10" contractor blade bogs and stops

[Stephen White]

Ok have done maybe 500-600 rips with various hardwood over the past few months. Starting ripping hard maple this morning and for the first time had issues. 4 different times the blade slowed and then came to a complete stop with light blinking fast. Had to unplug and plug back in to use again.

My first thought is that the this hard maple is particularly dense or the blade is dull (original combination blade that came with) but curious if others have had this issue. I'm ripping 2' 4/4 (13/16th) hard maple.

I did use the air compressor to blow out saw dust yesterday and put waxed blade and saw top but other than that have not done anything to the SS since setting up.

Also question, should I only get a sawsstop blade or does it matter?

[Thomas Wilson]

Could be dull blade. Do you have a newer sharper blade to try?

Do you have the riving knife installed? Even if you do, releasing internal stress in the wood can close up the kerf enough to pinch the blade. If this the problem, it is unsafe or to cut straight through on a table saw. A better option is a bandsaw but you have to rig up infeed and outfeed table extensions. Sometimes you can use a table saw if you rip part way through on the first cut. Flip the board end for end and rip an 1/8” short of fully through. Final cut goes all the way through. This works because the final strip is weak enough to compress. The through cut effectively widens the kerf. You will need a jointer to true the edge. The board may come out warped.

Edit: just re-read that the workpiece is 2’ long. Perfect length to cut on a bandsaw. Also becomes more likely a dull blade.

One more edit: Any 10” blade should work. Some caveats, no anti-kickback shoulders behind the cutting teeth, not too thin (most thin kerf blades work with the riving knife, but there is a limit), some 10” blades are not exactly 10” and you have to adjust the clearance between blade and brake.

[Jack Frederick]

I had this happen when ripping 8/4 HM too. I also had the wood close up behind the blade requiring a small wedge on the outboard end of the cut. I was running a combo blade that had been on the saw for a while. Changed the blade out for a clean sharp rip blade and I was able to complete the cuts without further issue.

[Mel Fulks]

What’s the tooth count? For rip 10 inch saw ,I want 18 tooth ,not 20 something.

[Stephen White]

Thomas, yeah have just the riving knife. I use a crosscut sled on the saw as well on another regular project and can only have riving knife for that so just got in habit of just using it that way. Been cutting the same maple for prob 500+ rips without issue but that doesn't mean much as this is the first time I have been doing continuous rips on any table saw. I do see folks using the band saw but I have have seen lots of problems with it not being true (a little or lot wave) and I need the cuts to be perfect. I get that people are able to do it without the wave but I seem to often get a little wave on my bandsaw cuts from time to time (have been meaning to spend time figuring out why but that would be a different post).

Jack, what rip blade did you go for?

Mel the tooth count is 40 on the stock combo blade. Are you saying I should go less?

[Stan Calow]

Which lights are blinking? both? What's that code?

[Mel Fulks]

For ripping …absolutely!

[Stephen White]

yeah I guess I got sloppy because in the middle of this issue I had a small piece of wood hit blade and bing me on the finger. I am crazy careful on table saws (brake or no brake) so this both shocked and concerned me (also bruised my finger tip, no big deal) so trying to figure out what it was. Had my shield on so face protected but hate flying things in shop :)

[Stephen White]

checking out blades and a rip blade would be cool but I just don't want to have to change the blade every time I crosscut so anyone have a great combination blade recommendation for ripping 2' 1 1/2 strips and using with a crosscut sled?

Edit:
Went with Freud 10" x 50T Thin Kerf Combination Blade. If I still have issues then will try a rip blade.

Thanks everyone for all the help!

[Justin Rapp]

checking out blades and a rip blade would be cool but I just don't want to have to change the blade every time I crosscut so anyone have a great combination blade recommendation for ripping 2' 1 1/2 strips and using with a crosscut sled?

Edit:
Went with Freud 10" x 50T Thin Kerf Combination Blade. If I still have issues then will try a rip blade.

Thanks everyone for all the help!

You ran 500+ rips on the stock blade, you blade is dulled out. SawStop's stock blade, while carbide tipped is basically a stock blade. One to get you going for some test cuts and I am shocked you made that many cuts with it already. If you do plan to do a lot of ripping in one sweep, drop in a good ripping blade like Forrest Woodworker II Ripping blade, 30t or for thick dense stuff the 20t. You will swear it's a different saw. Another blade to try without the $125 price tag of a Forrest is https://www.freudtools.com/products/LM75R010 which you can grab for about $60 on Amazon.

The combo blade you grabbed is ok, but tooth count is still high for a combo blade. You might be ok for a while but once you see any little burn it's time to send that out for sharpening.

You also can get your SawStop blade sharpened but it's a $45 blade. It might not be cost effective depending on the cost of sharpening services near you.

Do you also pull your blade and clean it the pitch and resin buildup? CMT mades a good cleaner but some people use simple green.

[Lee Schierer]

I hear people saying that they don't want to change back and forth between cross cut and ripping blade because it takes too much time. I timed myself changing blades and it takes me less than a minute and a half to change blades. The cutting speed and lack of burning with a true ripping blade in hard maple is hard to beat. You'll spend more than a minute and a half cleaning up the burn marks made by a combination blade. I no longer use any combination blades on my saw at all.

[Stephen White]

You ran 500+ rips on the stock blade, you blade is dulled out. SawStop's stock blade, while carbide tipped is basically a stock blade. One to get you going for some test cuts and I am shocked you made that many cuts with it already. If you do plan to do a lot of ripping in one sweep, drop in a good ripping blade like Forrest Woodworker II Ripping blade, 30t or for thick dense stuff the 20t. You will swear it's a different saw. Another blade to try without the $125 price tag of a Forrest is https://www.freudtools.com/products/LM75R010 which you can grab for about $60 on Amazon.

The combo blade you grabbed is ok, but tooth count is still high for a combo blade. You might be ok for a while but once you see any little burn it's time to send that out for sharpening.

You also can get your SawStop blade sharpened but it's a $45 blade. It might not be cost effective depending on the cost of sharpening services near you.

Do you also pull your blade and clean it the pitch and resin buildup? CMT makes a good cleaner but some people use simple green.

Ya know I haven't cleaned the stock one but will clean these going forward. I just ordered the glue line ripping blade you recommended, thanks!

I actually had that blade in my cart from research but then decided I didn't want to change blades between rips and crosscut but you convinced me that when I'm settling in to do a large run (doing about a thousand rips this week) that it is worth the time. Also will cut back on jointer runs that will probably easily offset the time of swapping blades. Since it and the combo blades are both 10" of the same brand I might not have to adjust the brake between swaps making the switching even easier.

[Stephen White]

I hear people saying that they don't want to change back and forth between cross cut and ripping blade because it takes too much time. I timed myself changing blades and it takes me less than a minute and a half to change blades. The cutting speed and lack of burning with a true ripping blade in hard maple is hard to beat. You'll spend more than a minute and a half cleaning up the burn marks made by a combination blade. I no longer use any combination blades on my saw at all.

You are so right! I need to stop letting a little extra setup time drive decisions.

[Stephen White]

Which lights are blinking? both? What's that code?

Thanks for the prompt to look up codes. Next time I will check the code first before doing anything.

[Robert Engel]

Use a 24T rip blade and do it in a couple or three passes. A thin kerf on a lower powered machine.

I'm totally with Lee, I also timed myself changing blades 1:43.

Not to hijack the thread, but I have a question to you guys re: SawStop. I have several blades that even adjust all the way down, its not within the spec distance for the brake. Most are blades I've had sharpened several times.

I'm using them anyway, my thinking is if tripped, it will only delay the stop time by a few milliseconds -- but, is this bad thinking? I've already had to bench a few blades and one dado set that have shoulders....

[Stephen White]

Use a 24T rip blade and do it in a couple or three passes. A thin kerf on a lower powered machine.

I'm totally with Lee, I also timed myself changing blades 1:43.

Not to hijack the thread, but I have a question to you guys re: SawStop. I have several blades that even adjust all the way down, its not within the spec distance for the brake. Most are blades I've had sharpened several times.

I'm using them anyway, my thinking is if tripped, it will only delay the stop time by a few milliseconds -- but, is this bad thinking? I've already had to bench a few blades and one dado set that have shoulders....

I wouldn't do that, a little hesitation on the brake stopping the blade could mean losing a finger or three. I will just add them to my circular saw collection and buy another blade for the SS or toss.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

If the blade is too small the saw won't run. I'm sure that the brake will still function properly after the blades have been sharpened a lot. If it don't run then toss them. I wouldn't worry about using them if the saw starts.

Back to the original problem, I really think you should get a low tooth count blade. The Glue Line rip has 30 teeth.... I have one, it cuts real nice, but I do have a 5 hp saw...... If I recall, they (Freud) say that it's for ripping up to 4/4 woods. Thicker wood 8/4 it may not do so well, and they caution against it. Memory fades though. I think that because I bought a rip blade that they say not to rip wood that I bought it for. 3" oak. I did anyways. I think my saw (ICS) also shut down. Had to pry the billet off the blade. SO long age, memory fades and can't recall properly.

As a final note, and please don't start a war about full vs. thin kerf. Depending on how YOU rip, a full kerf MAY be better. Thin kerfs may flutter and may not cut as well. Since you are ripping maple, I'm going to assume that a thin kerf is better, but sometimes, think out of the box.

[Justin Rapp]

Ya know I haven't cleaned the stock one but will clean these going forward. I just ordered the glue line ripping blade you recommended, thanks!

I actually had that blade in my cart from research but then decided I didn't want to change blades between rips and crosscut but you convinced me that when I'm settling in to do a large run (doing about a thousand rips this week) that it is worth the time. Also will cut back on jointer runs that will probably easily offset the time of swapping blades. Since it and the combo blades are both 10" of the same brand I might not have to adjust the brake between swaps making the switching even easier.

I assume the contractor sawstop blade change is about as easy as it is with the sawstop pcs I have. If so, changing blades is about a 2 minute job and well worth it. I made 3 blade changes this morning working on a project. If you store your blades in a handy location, it's even faster. Something I need to work on as I keep them in their packaging to keep them safe.

[Jim Dwight]

I have a PCS with the 1 3/4 hp motor. I usually use a thin kerf Freud combination blade on it. I think they are better than the blade it came with. When I was making a bunk bed for my grandkids, I had difficulty ripping the legs. They are glued up construction lumber. The rips were thus around 3 inches. I switched to a full kerf ripping blade, a new Infinity blade, and it didn't work well either. Then I switched to a Freud 24 tooth ripping blade (same tooth count as the Infinity) and it worked a lot better, even though it was not new nor completely clean. I think I finished the cuts with that blade but I later got a Freud thin kerf ripping blade.

120V motors sometimes bog on cuts, especially if the blade is not ideal but normally not on 4/4 material. I suspect the kerf was closing on the blade pinching it. That was what was happening to me on the bed legs. I saw a John Heinz youtube where he recommended backing off and then pushing through again for this - effectively widening the kerf. For something short like you describe that might be a good approach but I don't think it would have worked for me on the bed legs. Driving a wedge into the kerf works if you want to stop the cut. Cutting only part way through would probably work too.

The stock riving knife is too thick for thin kerf blades. I could not set it where it would not drag on one side or the other. But SawStop sells a thinner riving knife and it is reasonably priced. You have to look at the parts portion of their website to find it, however. I think it was $15.

I still use full kerf blades sometimes too. Usually they work. But I normally use a thin kerf combination blade and have not had an issue with them for rips in 4x4 material - including hard maple. I also use oak and cherry a lot. I've always used a 120V table saw and I do full depth rips in hardwood when I need to. With the right blade, I don't normally have problems but when the wood acts up, I can. Those instances are rare enough I don't think it justifies a 3hp or 5hp motor. But that is my opinion, everybody is welcome to go another way. But I do change blades and clean blades when I need to.

[Stephen White]

The stock riving knife is too thick for thin kerf blades. I could not set it where it would not drag on one side or the other. But SawStop sells a thinner riving knife and it is reasonably priced. You have to look at the parts portion of their website to find it, however. I think it was $15.


Thanks for all the info, so went to site and see 2.33 and 2.0 knife but still need to see if its compatible to contractors. Is this the one you meant?

Are you saying when my thin kerf blades come in today I wont be able to use them with the kerf blade or that it will just not be optimum?

[Bill Space]

Forgive me if this was mentioned already. I did read the thread at different times but don't remember.

Did you check the arbor nut to make sure the blade is tight and not slipping on the arbor?

Did you check the belt tension to make sure the belt is not slipping on the pulleys?

Just a couple thoughts. In case they were not mentioned previously...

[Thomas Wilson]

Thanks for all the info, so went to site and see 2.33 and 2.0 knife but still need to see if its compatible to contractors. Is this the one you meant?

Are you saying when my thin kerf blades come in today I wont be able to use them with the kerf blade or that it will just not be optimum?
Stephen, this a helpful article about thin kerf blades and the riving knife. Trent Davis is a technical guru and service representative with SawStop.
https://www.trentdavis.net/wp/2019/10/23/thin-kerf-blades-and-riving-knives/
He also has a Facebook group for SawStop owners.

[Stephen White]

Hey thanks Thomas, will check it out!

Thanks for the suggestions Bill, Checked and I don't think the belt is loose and the stock blade had been used for hundreds (maybe a thousand plus) 2' rips and I think it was dull and just not cutting well. I blew it not checking the codes.


-----
got the new combo last night and used this morning for 25-30 rips on hard maple. It was of course much better than the dull blade and often went through like butter but it seemed to me having a problem with the riving knife being a bit too thick as Jim said above and a couple of cuts bogged down again but the saw didn't error so I went and ordered the slimmer riving knife from SS. $15 part but with the $14 shipping so it was $30. The stock is 2.3mm and this one is 2.0 so it is just a bit less girth.

Today I have the thin rip blade coming in so will see just how much of an improvement that is. I have about 800 rips backed up now and counting so hope this will get me back in business.

[Stephen White]

Stephen, this a helpful article about thin kerf blades and the riving knife. Trent Davis is a technical guru and service representative with SawStop.
https://www.trentdavis.net/wp/2019/10/23/thin-kerf-blades-and-riving-knives/
He also has a Facebook group for SawStop owners.

great article. Ya know I ordered the thin riv b4 I saw your post but I think I am still glad to have both of them in my box. I am not sure I will ever use the blade guard so might be fine for me going forward just tightening the clamp to the new riv knive and going forward.

The article mentioned just putting some tape on the 2.0mm rk to shim so they both work, is this a really bad idea?

[Jim Dwight]

Shimming the riving knife might mean you do not have to change the clamp location on the saw. If it does, I do not see where it would be a problem. I think mine ended up working with both riving knives without having to move it.

The thicker riving knife will work with the thin kerf blade but I had to set it where it was pushing the offcut away from the blade a little. If the offcut is thin and flexible, it works OK. But if the offcut is thicker, it wants to pull the workpiece away from the rip fence. So I decided it was worth it to get the thinner one.

[Stephen White]

Shimming the riving knife might mean you do not have to change the clamp location on the saw. If it does, I do not see where it would be a problem. I think mine ended up working with both riving knives without having to move it.

The thicker riving knife will work with the thin kerf blade but I had to set it where it was pushing the offcut away from the blade a little. If the offcut is thin and flexible, it works OK. But if the offcut is thicker, it wants to pull the workpiece away from the rip fence. So I decided it was worth it to get the thinner one.

Hey Jim, I'm left handed and I feel the most comfortable with the rip on the outside (left) using a feather board for consistent width as I lean over the fence and feed with left hand unlike someone who is feeding with right hand/push stick straight through. Would love to do it the other way so I wouldn't need to keep moving fence left after each rip but just don't have the right control feel with my right hand feeding and don't like that feeling working with a saw, even one with a brake.

so I think what is happening is that feather board is keeping the left side tight and fence on right is causing just a slight pinch as the board feeds around the riv knife and tries to expand that little bit that is sticking out and that's all it takes. Not happening every time prob because the riv knife is above and away from feather board but like 1 in 10 but when it does the feed stops and the board is pinched around the blade spinning out. No SS error but I have to still turn off and start over and the rip width is then wrong by a few mm.

[Gary Markham]

I would make sure the feather board is not past the front of the blade. It’s a bad deal to have the feather board pushing the wood against the left side of the blade and the right side piece between the blade and fence. A feather board should only hold the wood against the fence so it must be located before the cut starts
gary

[Stephen White]

I would make sure the feather board is not past the front of the blade. It’s a bad deal to have the feather board pushing the wood against the left side of the blade and the right side piece between the blade and fence. A feather board should only hold the wood against the fence so it must be located before the cut starts
gary

yeah its before the blade and prob does not even have anything to do with the issue. This morning with the thin kerf and 2.33 riv knive I did a few dozen rips and on several of them the feed stopped and the board was, at least it seemed like to me, binding behind the blade. The riv knife is clearly a little wider than the blade so I guess it spreads a bit in the cut and then about 10-12 inches in they came to a stop with my normal pressure, maybe I could have pushed it through with an extra push but I don't do that with tools. Normally with the regular pressure I use, these 7"-10" wide, 2' boards move easily through the blade and I get 3-4 1 1/2" rips from each board. With the new blade on the other 98% it was like cutting through butter and my problem was solved from my original problem of using the dull blade and writing this post. It must be the thin kerf and the riv knife because until yesterday I have done probably close to a 1000 of these rips through 7 different hard woods with zero problems until a couple of days ago when the blade became just too dull.

I am hoping the new 2.0 riv knife will solve the issue.

[Stephen White]

I wouldn't do that, a little hesitation on the brake stopping the blade could mean losing a finger or three. I will just add them to my circular saw collection and buy another blade for the SS or toss.

Interesting, I couldn't edit this post. I just wanted to correct myself because while I was researching setting my brake to the new blade I see that as Kyle said I am wrong and the SS simply will not run if brake is too far from blade. I'm still going to toss anything that wont space with the spacer but I guess you don't have too.

[Jim Dwight]

Stephen,

It sounds like you have the riving knife positioned a little too close to the rip fence. I think the riving knife clamps away from the rip fence so it may resolve the issue. If not, it is not hard to move the riving knife position. There are little teeth you use so it isn't infinitely variable. Shifting it a tooth away from the rip fence may solve the binding but it may also create the issue I described earlier where the offcut, if significant in width, tries to pull the work away from the fence. I could not find a position that worked well with the thicker knife and a thin kerf blade. But with the thinner knife, my cuts are good.

Jim

[Stephen White]

Stephen,

It sounds like you have the riving knife positioned a little too close to the rip fence. I think the riving knife clamps away from the rip fence so it may resolve the issue. If not, it is not hard to move the riving knife position. There are little teeth you use so it isn't infinitely variable. Shifting it a tooth away from the rip fence may solve the binding but it may also create the issue I described earlier where the offcut, if significant in width, tries to pull the work away from the fence. I could not find a position that worked well with the thicker knife and a thin kerf blade. But with the thinner knife, my cuts are good.

Jim

Hey Jim, good to hear it did the trick for you. Thanks for the positioning tips, I think I am going to resist making adjustments for now. Got the thin kerf rip blade today and ran a few more cuts and had the same issue after a few cuts. My thinner 2.0mm riv knive is arriving Tuesday so I just shut it down and doing other projects until it gets here. When it does I will just shim it with some tape if I need too to keep it tight so I can easily switch back to the stock riv and blade.

I have the contractors 10" SS so everything I read sounds like the thin kerf is probably the way to go for my two main current uses and low HP saw. I bought a thin kerf combo and a thin kerf rip blade so when I switch the riv knive to the 2.0mm I expect I will for the foreseeable future use those two blades. Will have the stock combo sharpened though and keep the stock riv knive so if I do I will have what I need.

[Stephen White]

Ok new 2.0mm riv knife and it does solve the binding problem completely. I put 2 pieces of tape on each side and it snaps in snug but not 'snap in' snug like the stock one does. Tempted to add another piece on each side. It does have a little wiggle to it if I tug by hand but it really does not seem like it would come out. If I give it a strong tug I don't feel like it is remotely coming loose and there is also nothing really pushing on it much as it just keeps the spread going after the cut, so I might just leave it. The reason I am using tape instead of adjusting the saw mount is I want to just put the regular kerf combo blade and 2.3 riv knive back in for working with bigger stock (I know its just a few moments with a hex right).

Cut about a 100 rips with the 2.0 riv knife and the thin kerf rip blade and it worked just fine. The thin kerf blade does I think cut very clean but I thought the stock combo was fine too. I do see though that I will probably use the jointer a little less so there is that. I get some rip out with the jointer more than I like but I think that is more of a crappy wood problem than a me or jointer problem but that's another post :)

I just dunno. Could have just gone down to Lowes and picked up another $60 blade last week and sent the first one off for sharpening but instead when all was said and done I bought $150 worth of stuff, waited a week and its a little, meh...

but I learned stuff and that's always good.

[Justin Rapp]

Ok new 2.0mm riv knife and it does solve the binding problem completely. I put 2 pieces of tape on each side and it snaps in snug but not 'snap in' snug like the stock one does. Tempted to add another piece on each side. It does have a little wiggle to it if I tug by hand but it really does not seem like it would come out. If I give it a strong tug I don't feel like it is remotely coming loose and there is also nothing really pushing on it much as it just keeps the spread going after the cut, so I might just leave it. The reason I am using tape instead of adjusting the saw mount is I want to just put the regular kerf combo blade and 2.3 riv knive back in for working with bigger stock (I know its just a few moments with a hex right).

Cut about a 100 rips with the 2.0 riv knife and the thin kerf rip blade and it worked just fine. The thin kerf blade does I think cut very clean but I thought the stock combo was fine too. I do see though that I will probably use the jointer a little less so there is that. I get some rip out with the jointer more than I like but I think that is more of a crappy wood problem than a me or jointer problem but that's another post :)

I just dunno. Could have just gone down to Lowes and picked up another $60 blade last week and sent the first one off for sharpening but instead when all was said and done I bought $150 worth of stuff, waited a week and its a little, meh...

but I learned stuff and that's always good.

I am glad you got things working. All machines need maintenance over time. The extra money you spent is well worth the education!

[Stephen White]

Thanks Justin!