Felder fritz and franz?

[derek labian]

I saw this new a accessory from Felder called the “Clamping and Sawing System”. It appears to be a F&F Jig for Felder saws. I’ve been looking for a nice production F&F, ideally out of aluminium. This one looks like high grade ply and well made, and a bit pricy. Anyone used this or have any thoughts?

https://us.feldershop.com/en-US/en-US/en-US/en-US/Sawing/Accessories/Tensioning-and-clamping-devices/Clamping-and-saw-system-set.html (https://us.feldershop.com/en-US/en-US/en-US/en-US/Sawing/Accessories/Tensioning-and-clamping-devices/Clamping-and-saw-system-set.html?listtype=search&searchparam=Clamp%20and%20saw)

Since they have specific variants for the Kappa 550 and XROLL, these are specific to Felder saw specs.

On a side note, Felders accessory parts and e-shop is nice.

[Ted Diehl]

Check out Ramon Valdez channel on YouTube. I came across a video with him testing out his new F&F Jig made by another Instagram woodworker. I sent and email to the guy and he does make and sell them. He did not have any in stock when I emailed him a week or so ago but he wanted me to message him on instagram - and I did not know how to do that. But check out Ramon's youtube channel and he has a link to it

[Jesse Brown]

Looks kinda like the RUWI system? https://ruwi.de/en/wood-line/saw-safety-clamping-system/

I spend all kinds of crazy money on stuff, so no judgment here, but everybody has their limits, and mine is a $900 Fritz and Franz jig :)

[Steve Wurster]

Looks kinda like the RUWI system? https://ruwi.de/en/wood-line/saw-safety-clamping-system/

I spend all kinds of crazy money on stuff, so no judgment here, but everybody has their limits, and mine is a $900 Fritz and Franz jig :)

I believe it is the RUWI system. I'm also not going to spend $900 on a Fritz and Franz jig.

[Steve Wurster]

Check out Ramon Valdez channel on YouTube. I came across a video with him testing out his new F&F Jig made by another Instagram woodworker. I sent and email to the guy and he does make and sell them. He did not have any in stock when I emailed him a week or so ago but he wanted me to message him on instagram - and I did not know how to do that. But check out Ramon's youtube channel and he has a link to it

I follow Ramon Valdez on YouTube and Instagram, and now I can't remember which F&F jig he was using. It might have been the one from David Bedrosian (who I also follow on Instagram). David's F&F jig looks nice, and he sells it for $275 plus shipping. At some point I'm going to look into adapting my homemade F&F jig into supporting an adjustable face like David has on his.

[Ted Diehl]

Yep, thats the Guy - Bedrosian. You have to contact him on Instagram. If you figure out how to do that let me know - I want his F&F Jig. He gave me his instagram email. I'm not sure I should put his instagram contact stuff here but if you search David Bedrosian you will find his video and see my comment which he responded to with his contact stuff

[Steve Wurster]

Yep, thats the Guy - Bedrosian. You have to contact him on Instagram. If you figure out how to do that let me know - I want his F&F Jig

Well for starters you need an Instagram account. From there you can bring up his account, bedrosianwoodworks. And then on that page will be on option to send him a message.

[Tom Bain]

I’m generally curious … what is it about diy/shop-made Fritz & Frantz jigs that isn’t working, and would necessitate purchasing this?

[David Buchhauser]

I built my F & F jig based on this video. It works great and was very inexpensive to build.
David

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0PyFjtSHrE

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(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0PyFjtSHrE)

[Kevin Jenness]

I’m generally curious … what is it about diy/shop-made Fritz & Frantz jigs that isn’t working, and would necessitate purchasing this?



I looked at the RUWI video and can see some pluses and minuses for the system The ability to rotate the jig elements, slide to establish a fresh zero point and integral clamping are cool, but both the RUWI and Felder jigs lack any angle or length settings. My shop-made jig has a scale and flip stop on each element, which are fixed at 90 degrees and can just drop into the table slot. I use mine quite a bit for moderate tapers with no problem. I find it very useful for narrow or short pieces that are difficult or dangerous to manage otherwise.

It is not clear whether both sides of the commercial jigs have to be clamped to the table- if there is some give in the jig facings maybe you can slide the loose jaw forward, compress the plastic edging against the workpiece and clamp the loose jaw to the table, or perhaps one can manipulate the loose jaw so it grips a narrow workpiece without being clamped to the table. I usually have the "fixed" jaw backed up by the crosscut fence and pinch the workpiece between the sandpaper faced jaws manually.

It would be interesting to hear from someone who dropped the coin on one of these things. Seems like a big investment for something that can be quickly made in the shop, but maybe I am missing something.

[Mike King]

The Felder link you posted is the complete Ruwi system. Ruwi also makes a less complete version that is less expensive, and I have this system. It was imported by a Martin dealer and a bunch of Felder and Martin owners purchased a set. Martin now imports it as does Felder. You can also purchase it from Sautershop in Germany, although the shipping fees are high if it is deemed to be a bulky item (and the plate to store it may get you there): https://www.sautershop.com/safety-system-for-felder-x-roll-panel-saws-ru-27300-4

The reason it is specific to the model of saw is that the clamp and bar on the back element (Franz?) are milled/fitted to the channel in your slider.

It is a quality product and works quite well. It does not have flip stops like those used by a lot of folk who have made their own, but instead presumes you will use your rip fence as a bump stop if needed.

Mike

[Ted Diehl]

Ah I'm skill-challenged and appreciate good workmanship and thats why I'd buy the F&F Jig.

[Erik Loza]

I'm pretty sure ours is the Ruwi unit with a few tweaks. Just like the Aigner stuff. I agree that it's expensive but a local customer of mine has one and it's pretty nice. Definitely higher grade than most of us could DIY but obviously, budget options work great too.

Erik

[Kevin Jenness]

It does not have flip stops like those used by a lot of folk who have made their own, but instead presumes you will use your rip fence as a bump stop if needed.

Mike

That seems rather limiting to me. I often gauge the cut with the Fritz and Frans stops, trimming off a small amount from a narrow piece. Also, the stops are quite useful for cutting accurately dimensioned tapers.

[Mike King]

That seems rather limiting to me. I often gauge the cut with the Fritz and Frans stops, trimming off a small amount from a narrow piece. Also, the stops are quite useful for cutting accurately dimensioned tapers.

There are a number of methods of work. I believe the bump stop approach is the manner that Europeans work. You can still accurately dimension tapers with a bump stop and the Ruwi F&F.

[Kevin Jenness]

You can still accurately dimension tapers with a bump stop and the Ruwi F&F.

That's a good point. I hadn't considered gauging a taper off the rip fence. There are probably plenty of other tricks to learn. I will say that since I added tapes and stops I use my jig more often than before.

What is the nature of the edging on the Ruwi jig? Springy, sticky or just soft plastic?

[Joe Calhoon]

I don’t know what Ruwi uses but probably similar to the green F&F edging that came from Germany. It’s sticky and medium soft. The 45 degree ones have Resource Conservation Dry gaskets for the edge. They are very soft and work about as well. If never felt the need for stops on these and just use the fence as a bump stop.
the Ruwi one is nice and would be difficult but not impossible to shop build a copy.
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[Mike King]

I don’t know what Ruwi uses but probably similar to the green F&F edging that came from Germany. It’s sticky and medium soft. The 45 degree ones have Resource Conservation Dry gaskets for the edge. They are very soft and work about as well. If never felt the need for stops on these and just use the fence as a bump stop.
the Ruwi one is nice and would be difficult but not impossible to shop build a copy.
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Joe, you should also show that neat dealy ma bob that fits on your stop -- it's really cool and works spectacularly for cutting miters with the Franz on you Martin...

[Joe Calhoon]

Mike, the clip on stop extension is 200 mm long. You just subtract that from the fence reading to get the size. Also works on the MiterX. Stops are thicker on the T17 but will be simple to make one for that saw.
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[Mike King]

Thanks Joe!

[Warren Lake]

I see this you tube which shows the uses pretty well. having been on cabinet saws all of my life these are mostly cuts done on my cabinet saw with my own Hans and Frans jigs. Made up ply offcuts and staple gun time of cut of need.

You cant work a big slider like a cabinet saw and vise versa. My view the Fritz and Franz allows you to do cuts you could not do on the rip fence as the carriage is in the way. This guy shows how many different cuts are done. Its a good explain for me not having been on sliders but with a entry level one now. I had the sound off as a video is worth 1000 words.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqzVglze9Nk

[Brian Kristjansen]

I've been lurking on the site for at least five years and have recently become a slider owner (Felder K500S). I just wanted to throw my own Fritz & Franz jig up here too, for anyone thats interested. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skzo_BYhq08
Tim Wilmots was the original inspiration for me to get a slider, but I also wanted to express my heartfelt thanks to Jim Becker for all the quality content I've been reading all these years on Sawmill Creek. Cheers and much appreciated!

[Mark e Kessler]

Easy enough to make one with flips, but you really can’t beat David Bedrosians for the price if you don’t want to build your own. The only real advantage that I see to the ruwi that i see (and at a huge cost is the metal clamping elements