Used Table saw - questions

[Luis Reyes]

Hi All,

I got a used Delta table saw from a family friend who wasn't using it anymore. I've never used a table saw so I'm a little intimidated by it so want to use it as safely as possible. I've taken some pictures and hoping the group can help answer some questions!

1. I'm assuming the item on the back is the riving knife and then there is a blade guard attached to the riving knife?
2. Is it safer to use the Grr-ripper for rip cuts than the blade guard (I'm assuming I can't use both or can I?)
3. Anything additional I know or extra features I can install to help? It has a fence and basic push stick.
4. Table saw hasn't been used in 2-3 years. Anything I should do before starting it up? I'll probably search youtube for some maintenance videos.

Thanks!

Luis468483468484

[Marc Fenneuff]

That’s the factory splitter. Works similar to a riving knife but must be removed for non-through cuts. Suggest you watch some table saw safety videos on YouTube to get yourself acquainted.

[Justin Rapp]

Luiis,

First off, let's start with the fact that the table saw is the most dangerous wood working tool in the work shop. Some more pictures might help but the saw looks like it is missing the table insert (the part that goes around blade). It also looks like the blade guard at some point hit the blade so the alignment might be way off.

1) The splitter is in the back and attached to the plastic blade guard. A riving knife looks sorta like a shark fin behind the blade when not using a blade guard (small parts, etc).
2) Personal preference. Use the tool of choice for the specific cut being made to make it safe and keep your hands clear of the blade.
3) Safety comes with a proper setup saw. This includes a sharp and correct blade for the cut, safety for the blade (blade guard, etc), a square fence, smooth table surface to reduce friction, proper support for larger cuts, power cords clear of feet/walking areas etc. The biggest safety item you can 'install' on your fence is thinking out each cut before doing it and make sure it will be safe, otherwise don't plug in the saw till you can make the cut safely.
4) Depends on the saw. If it's belt driven, make sure the belt is not dry dotted, ensure your blade is perfectly flat, check the owners manual for maintenance requirements, etc. Also make sure the blade spins by hand freely to ensure any bearings are not shot. **** DO ALL OF THIS WITH WITH THE MACHINE UNPLUGGED FROM THE POWER TO ENSURE THERE IS NO WAY FOR THE SAW TO TURN ON)

Stressing 1 more time, a pour maintained machine is dangerous.

[Lee Schierer]

Until you get lots of experience leave that guard in place. Check to see if your area has a community college that offers a woodworking course and take that course. At anytime you are fearful of making a cut, stop and examine what you are doing and see if there is a safer way to do it.

[Luis Reyes]

That’s the factory splitter. Works similar to a riving knife but must be removed for non-through cuts. Suggest you watch some table saw safety videos on YouTube to get yourself acquainted.

Thanks for the quick reply. Can I add a riving knife to this table saw to make it safer?

Luiis,

First off, let's start with the fact that the table saw is the most dangerous wood working tool in the work shop. Some more pictures might help but the saw looks like it is missing the table insert (the part that goes around blade). It also looks like the blade guard at some point hit the blade so the alignment might be way off..


Wow, you’ve got a great eye! I’ll double check the table insert (saw is currently at my parents place) and check an online video on how to ensure alignment


Until you get lots of experience leave that guard in place. Check to see if your area has a community college that offers a woodworking course and take that course. At anytime you are fearful of making a cut, stop and examine what you are doing and see if there is a safer way to do it.

This is a great idea. I’ll have to check it out and would be a good way to learn to safely use the table saw and other tools

[Doug Garson]

I think Justin is mistaken, the red plate behind the blade is the insert. The table top appears to be aluminum, not cast iron. This is likely a bench top or jobsite model with a direct drive universal motor like this. I had one of these, first time I used it I decided to get rid of it. Make sure you have good hearing protection, if I'm right, it's a screamer. Please don't form an opinion about table saws based on this one, there are much better ones out there. Don't mean to be negative but hate to think you might get turned off woodworking based on your experience with this saw.
https://946e583539399c301dc7-100ffa5b52865b8ec92e09e9de9f4d02.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.c om/21610/5166233.jpg

[David Buchhauser]

Luiis,

First off, let's start with the fact that the table saw is the most dangerous wood working tool in the work shop.




Justin - I would tend to disagree. I personally feel the radial arm saw is more "dangerous" than the table saw. I own and use two table saws and one radial arm saw. I do realize that most of the radial arm saws are long gone from most of the current wood shops. I have been using mine for over 40 years, mainly for cross cut - and have not yet had an incident. (Knock on wood).
David

[Luis Reyes]

I think Justin is mistaken, the red plate behind the blade is the insert. The table top appears to be aluminum, not cast iron. This is likely a bench top or jobsite model with a direct drive universal motor like this. I had one of these, first time I used it I decided to get rid of it. Make sure you have good hearing protection, if I'm right, it's a screamer. Please don't form an opinion about table saws based on this one, there are much better ones out there. Don't mean to be negative but hate to think you might get turned off woodworking based on your experience with this saw.
https://946e583539399c301dc7-100ffa5b52865b8ec92e09e9de9f4d02.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.c om/21610/5166233.jpg

This looks like the one we got! I didn’t notice if it said bench saw on it so I’ll have to double check next time I go over.

I really prefer to be safe than cheap. Am I better off buying a basic ryobi table saw than using this? I’m just starting off with woodworking so don’t have specific projects in mind yet besides perhaps doing some picture frames and perhaps some wood shop furniture. Try a chess board or cutting board too.

[Aaron Woods]

Any of the circular saws (table saw, radial arm saw, miter saw, circular saw) are all very capable of causing serious injury, they almost effortlessly cut through large pieces of wood, so can easily take a finger, hand or arm in a second. Not even worth debating "most" dangerous, just be aware that they are just waiting for you to be inattentive. All can also be used very safely with appropriate care, I've been using power tools for wood working from a young age and still have all of my fingers and toes (well 99.8% of my fingers anyway, there was that little altercation with a table saw in 9th grade).

For some reason I can't see the pictures of the saw in question, so I'll leave issues of the condition of that particular specimen to other to comment on, but if it is similar to the Delta that Doug posted, there is nothing inherently wrong with this type of saw. I have two similar Craftsman saws. One aluminum tabled saw I bought new in the early 2000s and an older cast iron tabled saw from the 70s or 80s which I recently acquired and am getting into shape.

This class of saw is not as useful as a bigger cabinet type table saw, but also fairly inexpensive, and portable, a cabinet saw is neither of these things. Within their limitations they can do good work. No I would not suggest buying another of this class of saw unless somebody identifies some specific safety issues with the particular saw you have been given. A table saw can be tremendously useful but it all depends on the kind of work you want to do. Personally, I use my miter saw 2x as often as my circular saw and probably use the circular saw 2x as often as the table saw. Table saw is invaluable for some kinds of cutting, so even though it isn't used often, I wouldn't be without one.

It really can not be overstated that power saws require your 100% full attention and respect. The 99.8% of my fingers comment was serious and entirely due to a lack of respect for just what a table saw can do to a body part, nipping off a piece of a push stick would have been well worth the extra 2 seconds it would have taken to use. Not meaning to be scary, just make sure you always respect what a table saw can do to any body part that contacts the blade.

[David Buchhauser]

Any of the circular saws (table saw, radial arm saw, miter saw, circular saw) are all very capable of causing serious injury, they almost effortlessly cut through large pieces of wood, so can easily take a finger, hand or arm in a second. Not even worth debating "most" dangerous, just be aware that they are just waiting for you to be inattentive. All can also be used very safely with appropriate care, I've been using power tools for wood working from a young age and still have all of my fingers and toes (well 99.8% of my fingers anyway, there was that little altercation with a table saw in 9th grade).

For some reason I can't see the pictures of the saw in question, so I'll leave issues of the condition of that particular specimen to other to comment on, but if it is similar to the Delta that Doug posted, there is nothing inherently wrong with this type of saw. I have two similar Craftsman saws. One aluminum tabled saw I bought new in the early 2000s and an older cast iron tabled saw from the 70s or 80s which I recently acquired and am getting into shape.

This class of saw is not as useful as a bigger cabinet type table saw, but also fairly inexpensive, and portable, a cabinet saw is neither of these things. Within their limitations they can do good work. No I would not suggest buying another of this class of saw unless somebody identifies some specific safety issues with the particular saw you have been given. A table saw can be tremendously useful but it all depends on the kind of work you want to do. Personally, I use my miter saw 2x as often as my circular saw and probably use the circular saw 2x as often as the table saw. Table saw is invaluable for some kinds of cutting, so even though it isn't used often, I wouldn't be without one.

It really can not be overstated that power saws require your 100% full attention and respect. The 99.8% of my fingers comment was serious and entirely due to a lack of respect for just what a table saw can do to a body part, nipping off a piece of a push stick would have been well worth the extra 2 seconds it would have taken to use. Not meaning to be scary, just make sure you always respect what a table saw can do to any body part that contacts the blade.


I believe you need to become a Contributor to see photos. Cost is about $6 per year. Many members here have gravitated towards the Saw Stop for just the reasons you mention.
David

[Michael Schuch]

0) You should NEVER have any part of your hand directly in line with the rotating blade. If you respect the cut line of the blade you will greatly reduce the possibility of a disfiguring injury.
1) The saw should be solid with no chance to tip or shift. If it is a bench top saw screw it down or clamp it to a heavy work bench. An unstable saw if VERY dangerous.
2) The saw needs to be in alignment to cut well and not be dangerous. The blade should be parallel to the miter slot and the fence should be parallel to the miter slot and blade. A saw that isn't well aligned will pinch and kick back. Proper alignment is almost more important than having the proper guards in place.
3) The splitter is just a tall riving knife. A riving knife can be used when you only want to cut half way through the thickness of a board. There is no reason to change your splitter out to a riving knife. Your splitter will offer considerably more protection than a riving knife with the kick back culls in place on the splitter.
4) Leave the guards in place. At the very least leave them in place while you are getting accustomed to the saw.
5) If the distance between the blade and the fence is less than 3 inches I will always use a push stick or push block.
6) You should push the board being cut all the way through the blade with the push stick and then some. Injuries happen when your cut piece is too close to the blade and you go to pick them up while the blade is still spinning.
7) Have support setup to support your cut pieces after they go through the blade (an outfeed table). If you let gravity have its way and a cut board flips up after part of it goes off the back of the saw table you have a good potential for an accident.
8) Safety glasses! Table saws do have a tendency to kick splinters into your face which can lead to further cascading problems with the cut.
9) Hearing protection.
10) A dull blade will not cut well which will lead to further problems and safety concerns. Get a quality sharp blade. The original blade on the saw will probably be dull by now and not the sharpest to begin with. I use freud blades when I need a very high wuality finished cut. I have actually had good luck with Harbor Freight blades and tend to use them on coarser cuts to preserve my expensive blades.
11) Use the right blade for the job. Don't try ripping with a cross cut blade it will not cut well which can be dangerous. Combination (cross cut / rip) blades are the preferred blade for many because they do both types of cuts well.
12) Never stand being the board being cut. Kick backs are very dangerous. If you are cutting a wide panel never stand behind the piece that is between the fence and the blade.
13) Have a clean clear workspace around your saw. You don't want to be slipping or tripping on stuff while you are cutting.
14) Tell your family that they should never approach you while you are in the middle of the cut. If they need something they should wait patiently until you have finished your current cut.
15) If a particular cut you are about to make makes you nervous step back, think about the cut and find a better way to make the cut. If you aren't sure how to perform the cut carefully come here for some group think on how to perform the cut safely.
16) The possibility of an accident in the shop goes up exponentially in relation to how tired you are. If you find yourself tired take a break or call it a night.
17) Alcohol and table saws use DO NOT MIX! This is a good way to loose an appendage.
18) I am almost always in my shop by myself. I always make sure to have my cell phone on me while working in the shop so I can call for help if I need to.
From Eric: 19) adjust the blade height so it just clears the top of material being cut.

This list is not in order of importance but in the order I thought about them. I am sure there are more.

Table saws aren't inheritantly dangerous... the people using them are! Develop safe habits from the start and your table saw will be a valued and useful tool.

[David Buchhauser]

0) You should NEVER have any part of your hand directly in line with the rotating blade. If you respect the cut line of the blade you will greatly reduce the possibility of a disfiguring injury.
1) The saw should be solid with no chance to tip or shift. If it is a bench top saw screw it down or clamp it to a heavy work bench. An unstable saw if VERY dangerous.
2) The saw needs to be in alignment to cut well and not be dangerous. The blade should be parallel to the miter slot and the fence should be parallel to the miter slot and blade. A saw that isn't well aligned will pinch and kick back. Proper alignment is almost more important than having the proper guards in place.
3) The splitter is just a tall riving knife. A riving knife can be used when you only want to cut half way through the thickness of a board. There is no reason to change your splitter out with a riving knife. You splitter will offer considerably more protection than a riving knife with the kick back culls in place on the splitter.
4) Leave the guards in place while you are getting accustomed to the saw.
5) If the distance between the blade and the fence is less than 3 inches I will always use a push stick or push block.
6) You should push the board being cut all the way through the blade with the push stick and then some. Injuries happen when your cut piece is too close to the blade and you go to pick them up while the blade is still spinning.
7) Have support setup to support your cut pieces after they go through the blade (an outfeed table). If you let gravity have its way and a cut board flips up after part of it goes off the back of the saw table you have a good potential for an accident.
8) Safety glasses! Table saws do have a tendency to kick splinters into your face which can lead to further cascading problems with the cut.
9) Hearing protection.

This list is not in order of importance but in the order I thought about them. I am sure there are more.


These are all great suggestions! Thanks for sharing your list.
David

[Eric Wayne]

Michael’s list is very comprehensive.
Only thing I would add is adjust the blade height so it just clears the top of material being cut.

[Ronald Blue]

Justin - I would tend to disagree. I personally feel the radial arm saw is more "dangerous" than the table saw. I own and use two table saws and one radial arm saw. I do realize that most of the radial arm saws are long gone from most of the current wood shops. I have been using mine for over 40 years, mainly for cross cut - and have not yet had an incident. (Knock on wood).
David
I also still have and use my Dewalt radial arm saw. Just used it last night in fact. I don't consider it any more dangerous than the table saw if one respects it. If you don't respect any woodworking tool they can cause injury. Pay attention to what you are doing and where your hands are placed. As for the table saw that started the discussion I agree with the previous comments. This saw is very limited in it's abilities and may disappoint you. The one thing will almost assuredly do is make you appreciate better units.

[Zachary Hoyt]

Michael’s list is very comprehensive.
Only thing I would add is adjust the blade height so it just clears the top of material being cut.

That's what I do too, just have the blade higher than the wood, but a lot of people on this site say that the blade should be all the way up to reduce kickback potential. That idea seems bizarre and dangerous to me, and it makes rougher cuts at a slower speed, but everyone has their own ideas.

To the OP: I started out with an off-brand saw of that type, and it was not great but it was handy for some carpentry type work and I got my money's worth ($30) out of it before I got a bigger saw.

[Scott Clausen]

Lots of great tips here. If you carefully tune the saw before using by making sure the blade is parallel to the miter track and fence parallel to the blade it would be a great starting point. Then make sure all the safety features are lubricated where needed so they flow freely and are lined up properly. You may want to wax the table top to make it slide better. One of the most dangerous things on a saw is having the work bind in a cut, inexperience will cause some to attempt to force the work through the saw. That is when trouble starts. Lots of good videos on saw safety. A good one is where the maker was deliberately inducing a kickback, he nearly lost his hand. It was a stupid stunt but illustrates how fast the wood is propelled backwards along with anything touching it.

[Justin Rapp]

I think Justin is mistaken, the red plate behind the blade is the insert. The table top appears to be aluminum, not cast iron. This is likely a bench top or jobsite model with a direct drive universal motor like this. I had one of these, first time I used it I decided to get rid of it. Make sure you have good hearing protection, if I'm right, it's a screamer. Please don't form an opinion about table saws based on this one, there are much better ones out there. Don't mean to be negative but hate to think you might get turned off woodworking based on your experience with this saw.


Doug - yes, your right. I see now from this picture. I am used to zero clearance inserts so it looked like it was missing.


Justin - I would tend to disagree. I personally feel the radial arm saw is more "dangerous" than the table saw. I own and use two table saws and one radial arm saw. I do realize that most of the radial arm saws are long gone from most of the current wood shops. I have been using mine for over 40 years, mainly for cross cut - and have not yet had an incident. (Knock on wood).
David

David - Yes, that is very true also - regarding the radial arm saw, however for many of us, the radial arm saw, while it has uses, has been replaced or never purchased and a sliding compound miter saw, which is safer and more versatile now sits in that tool's space.


This looks like the one we got! I didn’t notice if it said bench saw on it so I’ll have to double check next time I go over.

I really prefer to be safe than cheap. Am I better off buying a basic ryobi table saw than using this? I’m just starting off with woodworking so don’t have specific projects in mind yet besides perhaps doing some picture frames and perhaps some wood shop furniture. Try a chess board or cutting board too.

So now that I see a full picture from the post above, this is an older direct drive job site saw. It's basically good for use with rough construction. A lot of contractors will use something like this when framing out a house to make some rip cuts in smaller pieces of plywood. You will have some issues with accuracy, so when building things like a chess board, where you want your parts to be exactly square, you will have a hard time. Even being out 1/32" of an inch is going to toss the entire chess board out of alignment.

I am not sure Ryobi is going to give you anything better this delta, except it might be newer or new and potentially come with a riving knife which would be used when the blade guard is off. Most of us are using blades that cost more than a ryobi table saw. Not something I would ever recommend or suggest, esp for a new wood worker. I am not sure what your budget is, or if you even have one, but you might be best trying to find a better quality used saw than grabbing another job site saw from a big box store. A 'contractor' style saw is a good place to start. They pop-up on craigslist and facebook market place all the time. Some examples of new are below so you can understand the style. Honestly if money isn't the issue, go right into to a sawstop just for the safety of it. One trip to the emergency room and a lifetime of a messed up hand is worth 100 times more than the cost of the saw.

Looks something like this one from Ridgid
https://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-13-Amp-10-in-Professional-Cast-Iron-Table-Saw-R4520/309412843
Or one from SawStop
https://www.homedepot.com/p/SawStop-Assembly-1-75-HP-Contractor-Saw-with-30-in-Aluminum-Extrusion-Fence-and-Rail-Kit-CNS175-SFA30/312937827

Just an fyi, while many people do work with job site saws, they tend to work with a higher quality model from Dewalt or the like which have better fences, better motors and are heavier to help reduce vibrations.

[Aaron Woods]

I believe you need to become a Contributor to see photos. Cost is about $6 per year. Many members here have gravitated towards the Saw Stop for just the reasons you mention.
David

I was aware that becoming a contributor opened up some additional features, but did not realize that included seeing photos. I guess it depends how they are included as I can see some but not others. Thank you

[Paul Wunder]

Luis,

Lots of good advice has already been offered but I would also recommend taking advantage of YouTube videos geared to folks new to table saws and perhaps woodworking:

Woodworker's Web has a ten part series entitled: "How To Use A Table Saw: Woodworking For Beginners."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lxi8EWBWcOU&list=PLgn5pIkLhZC5viCgcTEqckIaTutUT7_YK

Steve Ramsey has a woodworking channel that focuses on beginners. Search for his table saw videos on YouTube.

[Bill Yacey]

I think Justin is mistaken, the red plate behind the blade is the insert. The table top appears to be aluminum, not cast iron. This is likely a bench top or jobsite model with a direct drive universal motor like this. I had one of these, first time I used it I decided to get rid of it. Make sure you have good hearing protection, if I'm right, it's a screamer. Please don't form an opinion about table saws based on this one, there are much better ones out there. Don't mean to be negative but hate to think you might get turned off woodworking based on your experience with this saw.
https://946e583539399c301dc7-100ffa5b52865b8ec92e09e9de9f4d02.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.c om/21610/5166233.jpg

These portable contractor saws are typically loud; they are essentially a skilsaw strapped to the underside of a table.

[Doug Garson]

These portable contractor saws are typically loud; they are essentially a skilsaw strapped to the underside of a table.
They are also very lightweight which is good if you are carrying it but dangerous when using it especially if the workpiece is heavy and you don't clamp or bolt it to something substantial.

[Roger Feeley]

Justin - I would tend to disagree. I personally feel the radial arm saw is more "dangerous" than the table saw. I own and use two table saws and one radial arm saw. I do realize that most of the radial arm saws are long gone from most of the current wood shops. I have been using mine for over 40 years, mainly for cross cut - and have not yet had an incident. (Knock on wood).
David

they all eat meat. When I was in college studying to teach industrial arts, I was told that the hand chisel caused the most accidents. Today, I would ask about severity. I’ve read that there are 40,000 visits each year to the emergency room because of table saw accidents and about 10% are amputations.

I absolutely agree with other posters about pre visualization and going slow to build up experience. I would invest in a zero clearance insert.

always buy two blades. You will always have a sharp blade at the ready when your blade gets dull. You won’t be tempted to push through. A sharp blade is safer because you won’t use as much force on the wood. It’s also easier on the saw and you get a better cut.

[Patrick McCarthy]

Luis,

Where are you located? If you have never used a table saw before, my recommendation would be to try to find a fellow woodworker near you to demonstrate. It is not rocket science, BUT things like kickback happen VERY fast, and basic safety precautions can not be over emphasized.

[Roger Feeley]

Luis,
it might help if you add your location to 6pur profile. There may be a creeker nearby to help you.

[Lee Schierer]

Michael’s list is very comprehensive.
Only thing I would add is adjust the blade height so it just clears the top of material being cut.

Most blade manufacturers recommend having the teeth and gullets above the surface of the piece being cut. Having the teeth just breaking the surface may appear safer, but the material being cut has more of a tendency to climb up the blade if the feed is too fast and not enough hold down pressure is applied, which can lead to dangerous situations. Having the teeth higher makes it harder for the wood to climb up on the blade and the blade will exert more downward pressure on the wood.

[Frank Pratt]

Michael’s list is very comprehensive.
Only thing I would add is adjust the blade height so it just clears the top of material being cut.

There are many downsides to having the blade so low and the only upside is that there is less blade sticking up to bite you. Buy one should always be using a blade guard, so having the blade stick up wouldn't matter.

[Mark Hennebury]

You will get a lot of different opinions; maybe you should ask those that give them to qualify them. Ask how much time they have spent using a table saw. If they use them all day every day for decades of if they are part time users, using the saw a few minutes every few weeks. Also some state their opinions as rules, as though they were handed down from God, be careful of those. When people tell you what height to set the blade, ask them how that has worked for them? ask them how many of them have had accidents doing it their way? Ask those that tell you to use grippers, how many have had accidents using them?

The thing is, safety has a lot to do with you. You need to study and understand the saw and the sawblade, when you understand you will be confident using it, nothing worse then being nervous and unsure of what you are doing.

Unfortunately when starting out you will get conflicting information, so I would suggest that you take it all with a grain of salt, and ask people to back up what they say with some background on their work history and their accident history.
Seek out some "legitimate" sources, maybe.. accepted safety instruction manuals, not YouTube gurus, most of whom don't know what they are talking about. Having half a million followers on YouTube doesn't mean you know woodworking, It just means that you know how to entertain people.