Looking to move out of New York City [Archive] - Sawmill Creek Woodworking Community

Ken Fitzgerald

11-21-2021, 11:02 AM

I agree with an earlier poster. Do some traveling. Check out various sections of the country. In my life, I have lived in Illinois, southern Indiana, various towns in Wyoming, southern Utah, SE Georgia, Meridian, MS, south Texas, Charleston, SC, central Oregon, NW Colorado, and finally Idaho. Each place has its own pace of life, cuisine, outdoor activities, weather, cultural events, medical institutions and sports events. Take time to experience these places carefully, check out the real estate market, tax situation, etc.

Once when I was considered for a promotion to management for a corporation, my wife and I traveled to Phoenix where we spent a week staying with a great-aunt of my wife's while looking at real estate every day with an agent. On a Friday evening on the way back from Prescott, when I saw all the locals fleeing the city for their cabin in the mountains to escape the heat, I made up my mind. As we flew on a red eye back to Chicago that night so I could take three semester finals on the next day, we couldn't afford 2 homes in Phoenix and the surrounding mountains. I turned down the opportunity.

ChrisA Edwards

11-21-2021, 11:08 AM

We've lived in several places since moving from England to the USA back in 1982.

Spent one year in downtown Chicago.

The next seven years just outside New Haven, CT.

Then eight years in Gaithersburg, MD, just outside Washington DC.

Then a few years in Kinnelon NJ, just to the left of NYC.

A stint in Orlando FL for two to three years.

Followed by a move to a suburb of Nashville TN for four years.

Out to Dallas, TX for 4 years.

And finally retirement.

For this, having lived in all the above places, we decided to moved back to the Nashville, TN area and have no regrets.

We like Nashville as it has all the typical convenience of being near a biggish city, lots of open space, i.e. natural countryside if we drive a few miles away.

Property taxes $3400 for a 5000sq/ft property on 1.2acres and no state income tax. Very reasonable cost of living.

Four seasons of weather, minimal snow fall and for the most part, very friendly people.

Thomas McCurnin

11-21-2021, 11:17 AM

+1 on Pennsylvania and especially near Pittsburgh. A little hilly, but mild winters, close to restaurants, shopping, museums and sports. Great weekend forays to areas outside Pittsburgh

I recall one, can't remember the town, but it was in Amish country (Intercourse, PA perhaps?) where we stopped for coffee. Inside were two guys right next to me, one Amish, one Mennonite, and they were in a heated argument, not a discussion, with yelling and finger stabbing into the chest, over get this whether it was acceptable to kill (or was it shoot or trap) Possum on Sunday.

I was laughing so loud, the manager escorted me away, lest I got involved.

I did not know that Possum killing-trapping was a thing in PA, let alone whether it was controversial.

Anyway, I digress.

I live in the City in Los Angeles. Close to shopping, restaurants, bars, sports, museums. Great weekend forays with snow capped mountains, changing leaves in the fall, dessert, beaches and incredible forests. We have a remote cabin in the forest. Love it. While traffic needs adjustment, having those weekends is special to us.

Rick Potter

11-21-2021, 11:39 AM

Suggestion: Decide where you will, then RENT for a year before buying anything. While there join groups, neighborhood functions, clubs, church... You won't know what an area is like unless you participate in it.

Malcolm McLeod

11-21-2021, 11:49 AM

... why you like where you live. ...

... we decided to moved back to the Nashville, TN area ....

I was in 11 schools in 10 years while growing up, so perhaps like Mr. Edwards, a bit of vagabond was engrained in me. But my mother is native Texan (my g.father from Tennessee:cool:) - so here I am. It IS a state of mind, and whether you want big city or open spaces, salt-of-the-earth ranchers or men in women's thong leotards roller-skating on main drag, the people are wonderful.

Rumors to the contrary, we have true 4 season climate in Texas: early summer, summer, surface of the sun, and still warm. (Where else in the world can 4" of frozen precip be called snowmageddon?);) Except in Amarillo. They have wind. It could be hot wind or freezing wind, but the velocity sort of obviates the temperature.

Seems like other states are wearing a rut in the interstates to get to 1 of 2 places: Texas and Tennessee. Beyond that Mr. Kilroy will need to provide some insight on what intrigues him: art, wilderness, airport access, mountains, work, lakes, snow allergies, ....?

Howard Garner

11-21-2021, 12:12 PM

I would say look at the Greenville, SC area.
Greenville has a great downtown and a good beer and arts communities.
Clemson College is 30 miles to the west.
Great lake side living on the local lakes.
The small towns offer good housing prices and low taxes.
The beach is 5 hours way, 4 hours to Charleston, SC, 2 hours to Atlanta or Charlotte.
The Blue Ridge is visible from here.

I am sure others have their favorite, but this is mine
Howard Garner, Pickens, SC

Ronald Blue

11-21-2021, 4:27 PM

To some degree it's relative to what you want to have available to you. Rural living has it's positives and negatives. The negatives are you might have to travel to access some things. Look at the quality of available healthcare. I live in the land of Lincoln and while I've been to nearly every state this is the only area I have lived in. A traffic jam is 3 cars behind a tractor most of the time. We have broadband internet here and good healthcare locally and for specialists a 40 minute drive away. I'm in the city limits but I can walk a 100 feet and be in a field. If I want to fly somewhere then I have to drive 1-1/2-3 hours for access to an airport with access to anywhere in the world. I will rarely or possibly never fly now that I'm retired. Yes the taxes are higher than I like. If I were looking to move Missouri, Tennessee, and Kentucky would get a good look from me. There are many other places that have their own appealing attributes as well. Good luck.

Bill Dufour

11-21-2021, 4:36 PM

San Diego claims the best climate by government test. Also some of the highest prices.. Will you need a job or not.

Jim Koepke

11-21-2021, 4:39 PM

We want to move somewhere else but haven't a clue where to start.

I realize this is very subjective but would some of you mind telling me why you like where you live. Bonus points if you came from a large city could talk about how you adjusted.

Do you want to stay close to your current area?

We moved from the San Francisco area to a fairly rural area in Washington. Much more rural than the outskirts of the Bay Area. We used to live within a mile or two of large grocery stores, hardware stores and a shopping mall. We could walk to the closest convenience store. Now the closest convenience store is about 10 miles.

One thing we really appreciate is the quietness of our surroundings. The San Francisco area has a constant roar from the industry and traffic. Up here we can hear the creek flow a couple hundred feet from our house. A week or so ago it seemed terribly quiet in the afternoon. Usually cars on the road a few hundred yards across the creek can be heard driving by every few minutes. There were none. It bothered me so a check with > https://wsdot.com/travel/real-time/map/ < confirmed my suspicions. The road was closed by a fallen tree.

Occasionally one or another of the neighbors will have a party but that isn't even once a month. There are a couple neighbors who target shoot on their property. Where we used to live it wasn't target shooting. Again, not even every weekend. It doesn't bother me as much as in the past.

What comes with quiet sometimes is a feeling of isolation. Most of our family and old friends are many miles away. We do keep in touch online and over the phone, but sometimes personal contact is preferred.

jtk

Ted Calver

11-21-2021, 5:53 PM

Early fifties? Is your means of making a living mobile, or will you need to find a job at your new location? If you can work from home, then you might need reliable high speed internet access as one criteria. Take a look at shifting global weather patterns and their affect on long term water availability...water is life. Look at last years forest fire map for an indication of what extended drought is doing to a large portion of the west. I'd be looking for moderate climate...four seasons, but no extremes, and easy access to essential shopping, banking, medical, entertainment. I got out of New York as soon as I could, just to escape the Syracuse winters and high taxes. We looked at Virginia and North Carolina and settled on Virginia because it met most of our criteria and we were familiar with the area. Never regretted the decision. We did live in SC for four years and would not go back because of the oppressive summertime heat and humidity. Gotta be worse as you go south.

Ron Citerone

11-21-2021, 5:55 PM

I have lived my life in Southeast Pennsyvania. so I am not well versed in other areas. I do believe this area is a pleasant moderate compromise of other places I have seen and myself as well as 4 generations of my family have been happy here.

John K Jordan

11-21-2021, 9:35 PM

I grew up in Southwest PA. Moved south for college, never went back. I've lived in a several places in the country (midwest, northeast, further east, but settled in Tennessee. This question has come up before on other forums and I sometime tell why I like TN. So far, several people decided to move here after that and love it. I can't remember everything I said but a few things:

We live about 30-45 minutes from Knoxville on a 27 acre farm in a rural area but just 6 minutes from the drug store, 10 minutes from a grocery store, 8 minutes from the hardware store, 1/2 hour to good medical and eye care.
Lower taxes, in general, than much of the country.
Lower real estate cost compared to much of the country, especially away from the cities. We bought our 27 acres with a timber frame house and barn for less than a house in a typical subdivision.
Gasoline is often cheaper than I hear it is in other areas. There are major gasoline depots here since it is central to the east - at the crossing of major N-S and E-W routes (I-75 and I40.)
From TN it's a reasonable drive to the east coast beaches (Cape Hatteras, Myrtle beach etc) to Florida and the gulf coast, and to points north in Ohio and PA.
There is a lot of tech and good job opportunities. I worked at the Oak Ridge National Lab for 30 years.
Plenty of culture: museums, playhouses, orchestras, and more.
The Smoky Mountains are almost a stone's throw away, wildlife, hiking, beautiful forested mountains. Mountain biking is big. Hunting is popular.
Lakes, rivers, boating, water skiing, fishing, scuba. Whitewater is big, there are many rivers, some dam fed. I used to go whitewater kayaking almost every week.
For a woodturner hardwoods are free - walnut, cherry, maple, persimmon, sassafras, black locust, osage orange, more and more. Woodturners are everywhere.
For the woodworker, there are sawmills everywhere. I have a Woodmizer behind my barn.
Smack in the middle of the Bible Belt - those who attend church have plenty of options, usually close.
It is humid in the summer but only rarely snows in winter and when it does it's usually gone the next day. 3-4 inches of snow is rare. What's a snowblower?
My gardening brother in Ohio said we probably have two more months of growing season than his area.
Want cities? From Knoxville: Atlanta is 3.4 hrs drive, Nashville 2hrs, Chattanooga 2 hrs, Asheville NC less than 2 hrs, Cincinatti 4.5 hrs, Washington DC 7+ hrs
People are friendly. I've lived in other areas where people rarely spoke outside their bubble, some even seemed rude - almost like Paris!

Currently people are moving to TN from all over the country - from the arid and burned west, the frozen north, the hot deep south. The woodworking and woodturning clubs have been getting a lot of new members.

468490 468491 468493 468492

JKJ

Aaron Woods

11-22-2021, 2:30 AM

I'm all the way across the country in California. Great weather, but too expensive, don't move here we already have too many people. :D

I spent my first 30 years (I'm in my early 50s so a bit more than 1/2 my life) in the San Francisco Bay Area. I still like the area but it is way too crowded now so it is just a place to visit occasionally and that is fine with me. I've moved around quite a bit since leaving the Bay Area, mostly in somewhat rural to fairly remote areas. The past 9 years we've lived in a small city (16,000) in a rural county. I like this mix, still have easy access to emergency services, and a variety of stores including things like Home Depot and Costco, but don't have the traffic or a lot of the other sillyness you find in the big city. We are still close enough to make a day or overnight trip to a major city reasonable for the things a big city can offer as well as having major airports available within a few hours if we want to travel. My job has allowed me to travel the US extensively, usually by ground so I was able to see a lot of the areas where I went. Between work and personal travel I've been to 20 of the states from Hawaii to Florida (most of the west, Southwest and Southern states).

I mention this because maybe just getting a bit further out from NYC is enough for you, but just getting a couple hours away still leaves the things you might enjoy about your current location remain available on occasion rather than daily. Maybe you want completely different scenery and need an extreme change.

We have lived where it was 1-1/2 hours to a major grocery store, hardware store or gas station and over 2 hours to see the doctor or to go to a store to buy a major appliance. That takes some adjustment in life style, so we can now really appreciate having stores, and restaurants within 10 minutes again. If you are in your 50s definitely consider access to doctors and hospitals, as unfortunately as you age these become more important.

Weather and flavor of the popular local natural disasters is also well worth considering. We get wildfires and earthquakes here, I spent a career dealing with fires so I'm comfortable with that problem, and I've been around earthquakes most of my life so living with that threat is just ingrained into me. I would not be real happy having to live with the threat of tornadoes, hurricanes, ice storms or regular winter weather below 20-30 degrees. I've lived with temperatures that sit around 100 degrees in the summer, not my favorite but it is something I can live with. I've experienced daily temps in the 120 degrees range (Phoenix in the summer) and did not like it. High humidity is right out, I've visited much of the south and while I enjoyed much that was offered and would return, I could not live with that kind of humidity on a long term basis. Same goes for the critters, bears and mountain lions I can accommodate, knowing every body of water is likely a home for alligators and poisonous snakes, nope I like swimming and that would ruin my enjoyment.

I would suggest making a list of must haves, and nopes to help you start weeding out options. Once you have a good list of possibilities, then as some have suggested start taking some trips.

Thomas Wilson

11-22-2021, 6:45 AM

Wherever you go, stay away from Tennessee. It is awful. Pay no attention to that ChrisA Edwards person or JohnKJordan. They are delusional or under the influence of honeysuckle blossoms.

Truthfully, my wife and I grew up in East Tennessee and we moved back mid career to be closer to family. That part worked out well. Like John, I worked at Oak Ridge National Laboratory. Now retired, we live mainly on a lake. It is what I always dreamed of.

We have high school friends who reached the same decision point in life and chose to try out a few different places. They rented places in Hood River, Oregon; Tucson, AZ; Atlanta, GA; and a few others for a few months at a time. They enjoyed the gypsy lifestyle for a while but settled in Colorado Springs. I think they enjoyed the search and final destination.

We also have a condo in Atlanta for things the city offers. As it turns out, two daughters are in Atlanta now too with two grandchildren. We are able to be involved with them regularly. Two places is also an option.

George Yetka

11-22-2021, 6:51 AM

I thought the next move is NJ, then maybe PA/NC/SC/FL. You have to slowly transition to rural life out of the city

Clark Hussey

11-22-2021, 7:33 AM

Thanks I've been thinking about along the Hudson but it also seems like it might be fun to throw myself into someplace completely new.

Nice area! You can go a little farther north and get a lot more for your dollar. The best part about Hudson is easy access to Ghent Wood Products. https://ghentwoodproducts.com/

Ronald Blue

11-22-2021, 8:25 AM

To add to my original post. When people mention New York images of New York City come to mind and it's no different here in Illinois. People think of Chicago when you say Illinois. That said I've saw lots of New York state and it has a lot of beautiful areas. I'm sure a move of a couple hours away would get you into some great areas within your own state. With that you would still have access to most things easily and the benefit of a slower easier lifestyle. If that's something you seek. I'm sure the cost of living would drop as well. Real estate options would be much more open ended as well. Beyond that it still all falls upon what your needs are to make a move happen.

Leigh Betsch

11-22-2021, 9:16 AM

Stay away from South Dakota. Nothing to see here. (I will never leave!).

John Suhreptz

11-22-2021, 10:27 AM

I agree with Leigh. Stay away from South Dakota. Mount Rushmore, Crazy Horse Mountain, the Black Hills, the Badlands and the Missouri River Lakes are all photo-shopped. I will never leave either

Malcolm McLeod

11-22-2021, 10:27 AM

Stay away from South Dakota. Nothing to see here. (I will never leave!).

ROFL.

I spent 2 weeks in Montana several summers ago (near Canyon Ferry Lake). My BIL mentioned to our host, "This is so beautiful; I could live here!" Our host replied, "We get a lot of Texans say that. They move back to Texas in the spring."

...maybe change your avatar to a snow shovel???

Don Coffman

11-22-2021, 10:52 AM

I worked in design & construction of manufacturing plants and spent my career relocating every 5 years or so. Having lived in TN, WI, CA, OH, & PA I saw the +/-'s of various locales, their tax bases, politics, and climates. I retired back to West TN away from larger cities I'm about midway between Memphis & Nashville, making an occasional heap of sawdust.

Jack Frederick

11-22-2021, 11:00 AM

My first thought on this is “stage of life.” Are you set income wise or going to keep beating the drum? Have you had it with winter? Do you want to stay within range of the coast or is inland ok? Having spent the last 10 yrs in CA, it’s climate is vastly different from when we were here in the early 80’s. That statement covers much of the west. OR & WA are great, but refer to previous sentence. I always thought we would end up back in WA, but it never came about. I grew up upstate and do not miss NYS at all. My view on NY other than the NYC-Albany corridor is that it never recovered from the industrial exodus. Ithaca is ok due to having Cornell and the Finger Lakes are terrific. I do miss the New England area and would go back in a heartbeat but he kids and grands are driving the train now. If I could drop a pin there, Mattapoisett, MA is a great spot. Just off cape with access to about everything. The comments about fresh water leads me to the Great Lakes region. Michigan is great. Traverse City is a fine community. University towns are a good bet for cultural diversity and opportunities. I kinda timed out of winters in MA. If I was back there now I’d be traveling somewhere more temperate Jan-March.

John K Jordan

11-22-2021, 11:46 AM

Wherever you go, stay away from Tennessee. It is awful. Pay no attention to that ChrisA Edwards person or JohnKJordan. They are delusional or under the influence of honeysuckle blossoms.
...

You are right Thomas. Everyone, stay away from TN. It's a big sacrifice to have to live here.

...we live mainly on a lake. It is what I always dreamed of....

But Thomas, if you really do like that silly "living on the water" thing and want to branch out I have land on the Clinch a few miles from Norris Lake I might trade for a few nice dogwood turning blanks and a Thompson skew chisel. :)

However, it would be a horrible place to live. Taxes are pocket change, there's no traffic congestion or smog, no crime to keep things interesting, pesky neighbors and even strangers try to help if you have a flat tire or need something, in the fall they keep trying to give everyone fresh veggies and fruit. The river water is cool, almost like having outdoor air conditioning in the summer. The isolation is terrible - you'd have to drive 8 long minutes to get to the nearest I-75 exit, walmart, restaurants, etc, and it's 2 whole minutes to a boat ramp and little park on the river. And don't forget the worst thing, the awful E.TN scenery - I took some drone shots to show you how bad it is:

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And the soil here is terrible, it's way too fertile and no there are no fun rocks to dig up! Drop a seed on the ground and the next thing you know you have a pumpkin patch or green beans you have to pick.

OTOH, I think I'll keep it and build a house in case I get tired of the farm some day. It's an area hot spot for fly fishing.
Or maybe move to New York City?

PS, just to be clear the property I described is not for sale now, just an example of the kind of places available. There are similar places all over TN and surrounding states, lots of undeveloped properties/acreage but many with nice houses ready to move in! A few years ago we sold a house with 9 acres in the same valley and it sold for what we asked and went quickly. My wife tells me she sees many inquiries for properties and houses on a local Facebook group, mostly from people from northern and western states looking for a place to move to. I had no idea people used Facebook to find real estate!

JKJ

Jim Koepke

11-22-2021, 11:55 AM

Scott, be sure to research a state's tax systems if you move out of state.

Candy & I didn't but we got lucky. We could have moved to Oregon with no sales tax but they do have high property taxes and an income tax. We chose Washington. There is a sales tax and a reasonable property taxe but no income tax. Funny that not too long ago our richest resident, Bill Gates, supported an initiative for an income tax in Washington state.

jtk

Wade Lippman

11-22-2021, 3:07 PM

San Diego claims the best climate by government test. Also some of the highest prices.. Will you need a job or not.

They do have the best climate anywhere, but it is wall to wall people. But perhaps since the OP is used to NYC...

Jim Koepke

11-22-2021, 3:59 PM

My experience with the San Diego area is very limited.

My impression after visiting La Jolla, San Diego, CA, a norther part of San Diego was if you don't like the weather just wait a few minutes.

jtk

Alex Zeller

11-23-2021, 1:03 AM

Careful how far north you move should you decide to. I've lost count of the number of people who think they can handle winter up here only to sell the house they just bought and move back south. But the same is true for living in a rural part of a state. Some people struggle with not having a wide assortment of stores close by. Or living without same day delivery from Amazon. For me, I doubt I could live in a city like NY. It would be too fast paced and too many people for me.

Curt Harms

11-23-2021, 7:59 AM

A lot of folks from the city have moved into this area of SE PA and western NJ over the years...still commutable via train for those who work and need to go in...and a whole bunch less expensive. Many of the folks who have considered the property we have for sale in Bucks County are from the NYC area. (message privately if you want details)

I mostly can't stand James Carville but he made an observation about Pennsylvania that I think isn't far off. He said there's Philadelphia, Pittsburgh and Alabama (rural).

Scott Kilroy

11-23-2021, 9:53 AM

I'm a web developer so I can work pretty much anywhere. My wife works in the fashion so most likely she'll need to do something else.

Scott Kilroy

11-23-2021, 9:58 AM

Thanks for everyone's advice. Looks like I'm going to do some traveling and I think renting for the 1st year is a good idea. As to why we want to move (a few people asked) New York is great but it's very expensive and to live here and not take advantage of what it has to offer is making less and less sense.

Thomas Wilson

11-23-2021, 10:08 AM

I'm a web developer so I can work pretty much anywhere. My wife works in the fashion so most likely she'll need to do something else.
Well, it may come as a surprise to you that there are parts of the country with very poor internet. In the deep hollows and valleys of Tennessee, beyond the extent of fiber optic cable, your choices are various satellite internet providers. They are all slow, dependent on the weather and trees, and metered. But do include us on your itinerary anyway. We will have a shop tour, boat ride, and a home cooked meal.

Jim Becker

11-23-2021, 10:10 AM

I mostly can't stand James Carville but he made an observation about Pennsylvania that I think isn't far off. He said there's Philadelphia, Pittsburgh and Alabama (rural).

I think that there is some accuracy to that demographic observation, and it's about Urban/Suburban vs Rural as you note, and there are certainly other urban/suburban areas that are smaller than Pittsburgh and Philadelphia that reflect similar differences. PA isn't unique in this, either. Quite a few states, especially in "middle America" have one or two major urban centers with the remainder more rural. The OP's current state of NY is a good example as is NJ for the same thing. In the end, a relocation decision really does have to take into account not just things like climate and cost of living, but also that "interpersonal fit". There are a lot of places I wouldn't consider moving to (not that I have any intention of moving from this great area) because I wouldn't feel comfortable as an individual in society.

Jack Frederick

11-23-2021, 10:53 AM

I subscribe to the Times and in this mornings “Opinion” section is a quiz titled, “Where should You Live?” Sometimes, timing is everything;)

Stan Calow

11-23-2021, 11:01 AM

. . As to why we want to move (a few people asked) New York is great but it's very expensive and to live here and not take advantage of what it has to offer is making less and less sense.
A transplanted New-Yorker once told me he could live here (KC) and afford to fly to NYC for a weekend every month, on the difference in cost-of-living.

My suggestion is to focus on smaller cities with universities, as they are likely to have more culture, better services and good internet.

Ken Fitzgerald

11-23-2021, 1:59 PM

John K Jordan

11-23-2021, 7:19 PM

Well, it may come as a surprise to you that there are parts of the country with very poor internet. In the deep hollows and valleys of Tennessee, beyond the extent of fiber optic cable, your choices are various satellite internet providers. ...

Yes, a very good thing to investigate before buying. In our area in TN some places have excellent internet and some don't. I used satellite internet (HughesNet) for a few years and hated it. But the cable company finally installed 450' of underground cable (at no cost) from the pole to the house and the internet is excellent. For some reason to our house they installed the type of cable that usually feeds an entire subdivision, the signal is almost off the charts. I use the cable company's gigabit service.

Some people use DSL. I know a few who use cellular hot spots. When the university went to virtual classes because of pandemic they provided hot spots - a friend did all his classwork that way.

JKJ

Tom M King

11-23-2021, 8:16 PM

A fair number of people rent houses here on the lake for the off season. Mostly younger people who work from home. Not many full timers though. They're too scared of the dark country roads at night.

Jim Becker

11-23-2021, 8:44 PM

I'd suggest this is true about most if not all states. The urban areas may differ politically, dramatically from the rural areas.

No state is absolutely intrinsic politically. Nothing in life is that simple.

The political aspect is only a piece of the differences. There are a wide range of other cultural differences that are often pretty visible between the more rural areas and the urban/suburban areas. The "way of life" kind of things.

Bill Bukovec

11-23-2021, 9:21 PM

Mountain City, TN. We moved here 5 years ago from the Western suburbs of Minneapolis. Our property taxes are $1,300 for a 2900 square foot home on five acres. There are two sawmills in the county in addition to many portable bandsaw mills.

We pay no state income tax.

Alex Zeller

11-23-2021, 9:31 PM

In a few years I think internet isn't going to be a concern. Between Musk and Amazon's satellite internet service the only issue will be the cost.

Alan Lightstone

11-24-2021, 8:55 AM

Moved from Westchester to Boston to Dayton to Tampa Bay. Each had its advantages and disadvantages.

Being a native New Yorker, with lots of family still there, I can tell you I would never move back there. Taxes are way too high, and going higher, too much traffic, and idiots running things. And you couldn't pay me to go on the subway anymore, which I used to do all the time.

You could live like a king in some places in the Midwest, but real lack of culture and snow can be a drag.

Florida has decent weather about half of the year, the other half really hot and humid. Property taxes are high, but not like NY or NJ, but no state income tax, and cost of living much lower here. Decent culture, and we do have the Super Bowl Champions (Yeah Tom!!!!) Space to build a workshop is a possibility, certainly in the suburbs, but harder in densely populated Pinellas County on the water.

But way too many New Yorkers here. Far, far worse on the East Coast. Nobody remembered to close the gate after they came. So don't move down here.

Jim Becker

11-24-2021, 9:05 AM

lack of culture

Up front, I must say that folks in rural areas have wonderful culture (I grew up there), but I think the word here is referring more to the breath of things like theater, the arts, museums, big sports, etc., that are endemic to the urban areas. This can be a big conundrum for folks who want to leave an area that's rich in many cultural pursuits...going "full rural" unless there will be a lot of vacation travel can be a challenge for people actively involved in things that are naturally stronger in the urban environment. A good compromise is a suburban/surrounding area of a smaller city...access to arts, sports, etc., nearby, but a decidedly different living environment from the "big city". This is kinda, sorta why I really like where we live, although it is close to a more major city. We have the benefits of both quieter living and immediate access to "the stuff". If I had to move somewhere else, I'd still try to seek that balance of opportunity.

Perry Hilbert Jr

11-24-2021, 9:17 AM

I lived in Arlington VA for 25 yrs. Just a part of the huge urban sprawl that is DC. Moved to a small farm in central PA, 24 yrs ago, while kids were still small. They were able to have horses ponies, pets, play in the woods etc. I grew up hunting and got to do that again. But now this area is growing too much and seems a suburb of Baltimore. We are looking to move south a few hundred miles to a more rural area with a slightly warmer climate. We both like some of the "backwater" parts of coastal Virginia, though even that is disappearing fast. My inlaws live in Myrtle Beach and it is even worse than Arlington, VA when it comes to suburban sprawl. I don't play golf, I like to still hunt and fish a little, tinker in my work shop. for the most parts, the HOA's there are ruthless when it comes to those with more extraordinary hobbies. I couldn't stand living there. If I want to bring home a log and cut it up for turning blanks, the neighbors can "kiss my grits".

Lee DeRaud

11-24-2021, 1:29 PM

My impression after visiting La Jolla, San Diego, CA, a norther part of San Diego was if you don't like the weather just wait a few minutes.Huh. You must have hit it on a rather odd day, weather-wise. Being a SoCal beach town, the weather is pretty stable about 350 days a year.

But your statement reminded me of a business trip I had to Vancouver in February many years ago: I like the concept of "four seasons" as much as the next person, but preferably not all four in the same freakin' day.

Ron Citerone

11-24-2021, 2:06 PM

I think that there is some accuracy to that demographic observation, and it's about Urban/Suburban vs Rural as you note, and there are certainly other urban/suburban areas that are smaller than Pittsburgh and Philadelphia that reflect similar differences. PA isn't unique in this, either. Quite a few states, especially in "middle America" have one or two major urban centers with the remainder more rural. The OP's current state of NY is a good example as is NJ for the same thing. In the end, a relocation decision really does have to take into account not just things like climate and cost of living, but also that "interpersonal fit". There are a lot of places I wouldn't consider moving to (not that I have any intention of moving from this great area) because I wouldn't feel comfortable as an individual in society.
PA is not just 3 zones (Phila, Pburgh, rural)as you address Jim. There is a blending of urban, suburban and rural in a continuum as I am sure there is in many states. Seeing my Parents grow old and pass, and the medical challenges they faced, living rural without a supporting cast of family and friends would be difficult at best.

Jim Becker

11-24-2021, 2:14 PM

PA is not just 3 zones (Phila, Pburgh, rural)as you address Jim. There is a blending of urban, suburban and rural in a continuum as I am sure there is in many states. Seeing my Parents grow old and pass, and the medical challenges they faced, living rural without a supporting cast of family and friends would be difficult at best.
Yes, that's true...I've never lived in another state...always Pennsyltucky for nearly 65 years now and I've visited a healthy portion of it over the years. I grew up in NE PA, spent four years smack in the middle of the state at school and have been in SE PA/Bucks County since. The original statement is clearly an oversimplification and has generated some some good discussion.

Todd Trebuna

11-25-2021, 10:00 PM

So, I grew up in Northern California. Joined the military at 18. Spent 3 years in Germany, 1year in Montana. Went to work in the Government, moved across the country a couple of times. Ended up in Los Angeles in 2000. Moved to Northern Kentucky in 2006. I live about 25 miles north of Louisville in a small town of about 10,000. Louisville is the largest city in Kentucky and the 16th (or so) largest city in the country. It’s got big city crime, but also a very busy restaurant scene. A lot of local attractions and is pretty central to traveling in any compass direction. 3 hours to Nashville or Indy. 8 hours to DC, Baltimore etc. It takes me 25 minutes to travel my 23 miles in rush hour. Everybody is super polite. People look you in the eye when you walk by and say hello. Everything is cheaper. My friends from CT and PA couldn’t believe that I pay 200 dollars or less a month for my utilities. 1% property taxes. What I gave up leaving So Cal, the state I was born and raised in, was breathing room financial and a pace much more conducive to the lifestyle I wanted to live. It just depends on what you are looking for and what you can live without. After I moved here, my parents sold their house (after visiting us) in No Cal and moved next door. My MIL moved here also. What I loved about Los Angeles was nice, but I haven’t regretted moving for even a second.

Jim Becker

11-26-2021, 9:33 AM

Tood, it sounds like you settled on what I consider an ideal situation...close to the city for what it brings to the table, but far enough away that you can have some peace!

We've chosen not to relocate to another area going forward because of family reasons, but there will always be great appeal from certain destinations that have attractive things, both financially and culturally.

Roger Feeley

11-26-2021, 9:49 AM

There’s an old saying that you move someplace for the climate and what you get is weather. You could find the perfect type of location but it really depends on the people. A sub optimal location might be your dream destination if you find some close friends.

For myself,
— I would want a nearby maker space. I live near NOVA labs, a DC area maker space. I have access to two 100 watt laser engravers and a 4’x8’ Shopbot.
— If I could choose, I would like a cooler climate. Someplace near Jim Becker seems about right.

I grew up in Kansas and moved to Virginia 6 years ago. Were it not for family, The DC area would not have made the list. Falls Church climate is about the same as Kansas but add 20% humidity. Yuck! But I do like the eastern seaboard. There’s so much history and things to do here.

Jim Becker

11-26-2021, 9:54 AM

— If I could choose, I would like a cooler climate. Someplace near Jim Becker seems about right..
I have to chuckle about this...the climate here is pretty much no different to the DC area. Hot and humid in the summer and generally mild in the winter, but that is, of course, variable. You'd have to go much further north for your goal and even then, summers have gotten pretty darn hot.

No makerspace, but I do have a very nice property with a large shop available if you want to move here now, however. LOL :D

Roger Feeley

11-26-2021, 9:56 AM

Snow blowers are just plain fun. I have a 44” two stage blower attachment on my John Deere lawn tractor. That bad boy can send the snow over 20 feet.

Roger Feeley

11-26-2021, 10:06 AM

Nice area! You can go a little farther north and get a lot more for your dollar. The best part about Hudson is easy access to Ghent Wood Products. https://ghentwoodproducts.com/

Clark, you made a great point. Nearby access to woodworking equipment and supplies and lumber. Last summer, I drove from DC to Austin TX to visit my brother. On the way back, I swung by Charm OH to visit Keim lumber based on a suggestion from the Creek. Keim was great and I thought the prices were wonderful. But the drive by all those tidy Amish farms was really something. I kept thing that I would sure like those folks for neighbors. But would I feel the same way if I moved there? What I fell in love with was the idea of living in Amish country. Maybe the reality isn’t so rosy.

John K Jordan

11-26-2021, 10:17 AM

Tood, it sounds like you settled on what I consider an ideal situation...close to the city for what it brings to the table, but far enough away that you can have some peace! …

I think that’s an important consideration. I know people who live on isolated rural property and have to drive an hour to get to stores and services.

When looking for farm property around here the prices were lower further from “civilization”. The 27 acres we found is on a quiet dead-end rural road with woods on and bordering the property, but only 5-8 minutes from drug, grocery, auto parts and hardware stores, law enforcement, farmers co-op and the county seat, 11 minutes from an exit on I-75, 18-20 minutes from two hospitals and Lowes&Home Depot, and 30 minutes from the city of Knoxville where we can find anything.

Jim Becker

11-26-2021, 4:32 PM

It doesn't get much better than that, John.

Lee DeRaud

11-26-2021, 5:11 PM

"Twenty minutes to get to a Home Depot?!? What the heck are we living in, 'olden times'?" :)

Christopher L Everett

11-26-2021, 5:30 PM

Minneapolis suburbs can be on the rural side of suburban. I live on a 1/2 acre lot, with a nature preserve behind the house; I saw a 12 point buck while working from home a few weeks ago. But I am 25 minutes from the office, 30 minutes from downtown. The downsides are that the neighbors are standoffish, and I can't grow roses or hostas (deer). If you do move here, I recommend you buy a house built before 1960. My present house was built in '88, and it's taught me more than I ever wanted to know about poor construction quality.

Zachary Hoyt

11-26-2021, 5:51 PM

I've been living for the last 20 years in a town of just under 2,000, most of whom I do not agree with politically but it's not a problem. It's 30 miles in either direction to Lowes or Home Depot, but only 7 miles to a local lumber yard, hardware store, grocery stores, bank, etc. I'm moving next year to an Adirondack town of about 300, (~2.9 people per square mile) and about 55 miles to a Lowes, 90 to Home Depot, but again only 7 miles to a town with the same kinds of local things. I'm going there for the scenery, my plan is to build instruments all winter and part of the time in the summer, and spend the time when the weather is nice outside gardening, canoeing, hiking, bicycling, etc as much as possible. It is going to be a big change going from living on a 180 acre farm in a 7700 sf converted barn to living on a 9700 square foot lot in an 850 sf house, but it will be fun to exercise my efficiency in utilization of space skills, and I will have a lot less non-shop work to do than I have had here.

It's not just where you live that makes a difference, but on what scale. Moving out of the city it would be nice to have more space, no doubt.

Jim Becker

11-26-2021, 7:05 PM

"Twenty minutes to get to a Home Depot?!? What the heck are we living in, 'olden times'?" :)
I'm at about 15 minutes for that here at the new house, but it was about 20 at the old house. :) :D Four minutes more for Lowes. LOL

roger wiegand

11-26-2021, 7:12 PM

Love living on the outskirts of Boston, I regard it as one of those "you get what you pay for" situations. Stupidly expensive, but everything else about it is great. I'm happy doing outdoor activities in every season. something I can't say for places like Missouri where we lived before.

At this point we have a near-perfect living situation so are not considering moving, but that said if I could live anywhere today it would be New Zealand. Big enough to be interesting, not big enough to support Walmarts; incredibly friendly relaxed people, real towns with individual personalities, fabulous scenery and recreation, great food, the plusses go on and on. The only downside is that it is a long way from anywhere else.

I'd also consider the south of England and the north of Italy, each for different reasons. As others have commented travel is a great way to see what else is possible. I certainly wouldn't constrain myself to just the US.

Lawrence Duckworth

11-26-2021, 9:21 PM

We moved to northeast Georgia from mid michigan 45+ yrs ago and I have yet to be bitten by a mosquito.... Michigan, they're as big as my truck!

anne watson

11-28-2021, 12:50 PM

Renting first is the best idea. Moving to the southwest is my choice, hot, cold, mountains, valleys, rich, poor , , we have it a it all, including lots of Home Depots.

Ned Otter

11-29-2021, 1:46 AM

Hi Scott,

I lived in NYC even longer than you, and about 16 years ago purchased a weekend house in between New Paltz and Kingston, NY. I'm about 2 hours by car from NYC, so don't get there much these days, have been hunkered down here since early 2020, when Covid hit. We are definitely not moving back to NYC.

It's rural here, definitely not suburban.

Things I miss about NYC are the convenience of public transportation, the breadth of the arts, the variety of excellent ethnic food, and jazz. It's difficult to find those in any rural area. Also miss seeing friends at the drop of a hat, as we only know a few folks in this area.

We are still a one-car family, but most folks that live in suburban/rural areas will require 2 cars, so that means extra payments and insurance, etc.

Perhaps others have mentioned it, but I think one of the biggest issues about moving now is that home prices are through the roof everywhere across the nation, if you're thinking about living somewhere outside of a major metropolitan area.

I grew up in apartment buildings, so someone else always shoveled the snow, tended to the building, took out the garbage and so on. But living in a house, you do all of that on your own. It's a big paradigm shift for some.

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.