Computer guru's?

[Kev Williams]

I'm okay with computers but hardly a 'guru', and I need one...

I've been posting up lately about how all my win7's are acting like they're swimming in quicksand. So I picked up a nice used Dell Optiplex 790 off ebay. Been setting it up for the past week. I've installed Service Pack 1, no other updates whatsover. It's OFF the net except for whatever few minutes is needed to install/license programs from online, like Foxit PDF, etc... It's running 7 pro 64, only 4g ram (at the moment), and a 1tb hard drive. Pretty barebones. I've been xferring files & such, got most of my graphics, Office and normally-used programs loaded, still some to go, but as of now it's totally "usable"...

This new computer is SO much faster than my 'fast' T5400 computer it's hard to describe. What takes 5, 8, 20 seconds or more to happen on my T5400 is flat out instantaneous on this 'new' one. I know that Microsoft is still 'background' updating win7's and other computers with 'critical' security updates, regardless of the fact their 'support' ended almost 2 years ago, and also regardless of the fact my computers have been set up specifically to NOT update for YEARS. Sounds like a conspiracy theory, but I've read this online, and been told this by a couple of customers who 'do' computers for a living. And these updates are supposedly slowing the hell out of the computers, supposedly on purpose... I can't speak to the truth-or not- behind the talk, but I DO know that ALL of my win7 computers are so ridiculously slow that they're unusable. I swear, the characters "(Not Responding)" appear in the upper ribbons so often they're tarting to burn-in to the monitors! These computers used to be fast...

SO-- I now have a blazing fast Win7, that's going to take the place of every other computer, one at a time, one while I do a complete drive wipe and Windows 7 restoration on them all. Having just done the new one, it's fresh in my little brain what to do on the subsequent computers. My goal, have lightning-fast Win7 computers doing proprietary work running my programs and machines, while learning to put up with the nonsense and hassle of using a Win11 computer or two for all internet duties.

WHY I NEED A GURU-- Search engines, being geared for advertising for profit over locating actual useful information these days, are completely useless in finding an answer to THIS question:

WHAT do I have to do to firewall, block, keep-out, prevent, and/or otherwise just plain STOP Microsoft from invading my computers? While I can keep any or all of my computers off the INTERNET, I cannot keep them off my NETWORK, which IS on the internet... Are there any port-blocking protocols I can add, or firewall settings I can perform, or IP address or dot-com blocking procedures, 0.0.0.127 host-name blocks, router-based blocking, ANYTHING that will work--??? These old relic computers seem to work rather well before they're invaded with 'security' fixes. I'd like to keep 'em that way!

(for those who may not know me that well, no, I can't upgrade my computers, due to the machinery and programs they run)

Thanks in advance :)

[Lisa Starr]

Kev,

It has been too long since I've done this to give you steps, but the general method is to assign a static IP address to each computer you want to prevent internet access for. Then, assuming you have a fairly robust router, you can login to the router and set the router firewall to deny all internet access on those IP addresses.

[Rich Engelhardt]

click Start > Control Panel > System and Security. Under Windows Update, click the "Turn automatic updating on or off" link. Click the "Change Settings" link on the left. Verify that you have Important Updates set to "Never check for updates".

Or if you prefer gpedit.


Click Start, and then click Run.
Type gpedit.msc , and then click Ok.
Expand Computer Configuration ▸ Administrative Templates ▸ Windows Components ▸ Windows Update.
Select Configure Automatic Updates, choose Disabled, and click Ok.


You should also check from time to time to see if the setting holds. Sometimes other processes in Windows will alter that setting.

Lisa's method to deny internet access will also work.

If you can't access the router or if it doesn't support IP blocking, you can still assign a static IP address to the computer - but - leave the gateway blank. That way the computer won't be able to find a way off the local area network.

[Jerome Stanek]

You could also set up a subnet so the computers only see you lan

[Tom Stenzel]

Kev,

I don't know of a sure way to block Microsoft updates without using an external router. I've read that setting the HOSTS file to aim a domain to 127.0.0.1 will be ignored.

-Tom

[Kev Williams]

Kev,

It has been too long since I've done this to give you steps, but the general method is to assign a static IP address to each computer you want to prevent internet access for. Then, assuming you have a fairly robust router, you can login to the router and set the router firewall to deny all internet access on those IP addresses.
--My router, which is a 4-yearish-old Linksys EA8500, is already set up this way, using 'parental controls', I can block access to any computer 'always' or set certain times to block and allow. What I don't know is if an intruder can 'invade' a blocked computer by simply going thru an unblocked computer? I read recently that hackers have figured out how to install ransomware this way...

The router's firewall is totally vague and confusing to me--
here's the firewall settings (pg1) and the DMZ settings (pg2)- I have NO idea of what to do, change, etc... ?
468126468128

click Start > Control Panel > System and Security. Under Windows Update, click the "Turn automatic updating on or off" link. Click the "Change Settings" link on the left. Verify that you have Important Updates set to "Never check for updates".

Or if you prefer gpedit.


Click Start, and then click Run.
Type gpedit.msc , and then click Ok.
Expand Computer Configuration ▸ Administrative Templates ▸ Windows Components ▸ Windows Update.
Select Configure Automatic Updates, choose Disabled, and click Ok.


You should also check from time to time to see if the setting holds. Sometimes other processes in Windows will alter that setting.

Lisa's method to deny internet access will also work.

If you can't access the router or if it doesn't support IP blocking, you can still assign a static IP address to the computer - but - leave the gateway blank. That way the computer won't be able to find a way off the local area network.
I've had Windows Update like this on all my computers for several years :)
468132468131

--leaving the gateways blank, THAT I've never heard of, I'm going to try that!

And Tom, I've had no good luck with the Hosts thing either...

So it seems I've been doing things right for the most part, but shutting down Windows Updates hasn't stopped the updates. Hopefully keeping my 7's off the net entirely will do the trick :)

[Jim Becker]

Setup MAC address filtering on your router that disallows any machine addresses you provide not have access to or from the WAN (Internet) port of the router. You'll have full functionality inside of your network, but nothing can pass in or out from/to the Internet from those specific machines. Parental controls often use IP addresses (software can vary) rather than MAC addresses (hardware and not generally changeable). The strictest corporate security arrangements tend to use MAC address filters as one of the important controlling data points since they are hardware interface addresses. To be complete, yes, there are ways to spoof alternative MAC addresses, but that shouldn't be a risk in your closed and personal environment.

[Anuj Prateek]

Kev,

I don't know of a sure way to block Microsoft updates without using an external router. I've read that setting the HOSTS file to aim a domain to 127.0.0.1 will be ignored.

-Tom

Router will be the easiest way. Block all internet traffic from MAC address.

[Kev Williams]

what started out as a pleasant surprise, in that the new computer build process was actually going rather smoothly- computer was doing what I wanted, printer installs only involved minor glitches, no major headaches like I normally get when doing 'anything computers'-- Well, my computer jinx let me know in no uncertain terms it was alive and well, in spades...

one problem I've had for some time: Gravostyle7, which is necessary for my business survival, for some reason is considered by many anti-virus programs to be a virus. Defender hasn't given me a problem because 'it' knows better. BUT- the version on my new computer, which I can't update because Microsoft won't let me, is several years old, and DOESN'T know better. In the middle of loading G7 to finish a job, which BTW I've ran several times in the past 2 days without issue, created a virus warning from Defender. So I immediately went in to Services and disabled Defender. Apparently, I did that while Defender was in the process of quarantining 'the virus', or so I assume-- anyway, THAT one stunt has completely fubar'd the computer as-it-was...

--Gravo7 will NOT fully un-install. And it will also not fully RE-install. System Restore won't work because (a) the restore points don't extend to before the initial install (my bad), and (b) most OTHER restore points won't take because of 'catastophic data errors'. I did find a restore point that worked, BUT- once I attempt another re-install of G7, upon reboot the computer hangs and goes into Startup Recovery mode, which doesn't work... so now it'll only boot in safe mode..

MEANWHILE, amongst the G7 trials, I found that the computer was ONLINE. Checked the router, it says it's blocked. Checked the DHCP table, and the computer is on there TWICE, with 2 different IP's AND MAC addresses-?? So to try a quick fix, based on an internet tip, I went into the internet settings/connections/LAN tab, unchecked automatic, checked proxy server, and VOILA! The computer went into an endless loop. Was an 8 minute or so wait for the loop to time out before any other window would appear... Took me nearly 3 hours just to undo that mistake. I also tried the wrong/no gateway idea, that didn't work - however, I found out later that the .198 IP address that I got from the first DHCP entry in the router was the erroneous one, computer itself says it's .146 -- So that may still work. I did at least get the endless loop issue fixed. Biggest problem now, while typing this I attempted a reinstall of G7 again, to again be greeted with a won't-boot situation... I'm now attempting a 'last known good configuration' boot... and, it just failed...

I CAN get the computer to work minus a working G7 program, but what I CAN'T figure out is how to remove a program that won't remove itself-- At one point last night I resorted to finding every instance of G7 in the registry and deleted them all. Didn't hurt anything, but didn't help either. I MUST have G7 on this computer, it's 100% necessary- I DON'T have a recovery disk of any kind to start over with the computer, and I don't have a Win7pro64 disk to reload Windows. Another anomaly of G7, it doesn't give me a choice of where to install it, much of it goes into Windows files, the rest on the default drive...

One option I have-? -- is I added a 1tb Sandisk SSD drive yesterday, maybe it's possible to boot up to it and install G7 on it?

AGGHH!! Meanwhile, I have to get into the router and figure out where the ghost computer came from and how to delete it! Among other things--

(and some people wonder why I don't want self-driving cars ;) )

[Chuck Wintle]

what started out as a pleasant surprise, in that the new computer build process was actually going rather smoothly- computer was doing what I wanted, printer installs only involved minor glitches, no major headaches like I normally get when doing 'anything computers'-- Well, my computer jinx let me know in no uncertain terms it was alive and well, in spades...

one problem I've had for some time: Gravostyle7, which is necessary for my business survival, for some reason is considered by many anti-virus programs to be a virus. Defender hasn't given me a problem because 'it' knows better. BUT- the version on my new computer, which I can't update because Microsoft won't let me, is several years old, and DOESN'T know better. In the middle of loading G7 to finish a job, which BTW I've ran several times in the past 2 days without issue, created a virus warning from Defender. So I immediately went in to Services and disabled Defender. Apparently, I did that while Defender was in the process of quarantining 'the virus', or so I assume-- anyway, THAT one stunt has completely fubar'd the computer as-it-was...

--Gravo7 will NOT fully un-install. And it will also not fully RE-install. System Restore won't work because (a) the restore points don't extend to before the initial install (my bad), and (b) most OTHER restore points won't take because of 'catastophic data errors'. I did find a restore point that worked, BUT- once I attempt another re-install of G7, upon reboot the computer hangs and goes into Startup Recovery mode, which doesn't work... so now it'll only boot in safe mode..

MEANWHILE, amongst the G7 trials, I found that the computer was ONLINE. Checked the router, it says it's blocked. Checked the DHCP table, and the computer is on there TWICE, with 2 different IP's AND MAC addresses-?? So to try a quick fix, based on an internet tip, I went into the internet settings/connections/LAN tab, unchecked automatic, checked proxy server, and VOILA! The computer went into an endless loop. Was an 8 minute or so wait for the loop to time out before any other window would appear... Took me nearly 3 hours just to undo that mistake. I also tried the wrong/no gateway idea, that didn't work - however, I found out later that the .198 IP address that I got from the first DHCP entry in the router was the erroneous one, computer itself says it's .146 -- So that may still work. I did at least get the endless loop issue fixed. Biggest problem now, while typing this I attempted a reinstall of G7 again, to again be greeted with a won't-boot situation... I'm now attempting a 'last known good configuration' boot... and, it just failed...

I CAN get the computer to work minus a working G7 program, but what I CAN'T figure out is how to remove a program that won't remove itself-- At one point last night I resorted to finding every instance of G7 in the registry and deleted them all. Didn't hurt anything, but didn't help either. I MUST have G7 on this computer, it's 100% necessary- I DON'T have a recovery disk of any kind to start over with the computer, and I don't have a Win7pro64 disk to reload Windows. Another anomaly of G7, it doesn't give me a choice of where to install it, much of it goes into Windows files, the rest on the default drive...

One option I have-? -- is I added a 1tb Sandisk SSD drive yesterday, maybe it's possible to boot up to it and install G7 on it?

AGGHH!! Meanwhile, I have to get into the router and figure out where the ghost computer came from and how to delete it! Among other things--

(and some people wonder why I don't want self-driving cars ;) )
Did you try safe mode yet?

[Kev Williams]

Before my last try with uninstall-install, I created a restore point, just in case.

Didn't do much good- at this moment I'm trying to create a USB boot disk, because: I can't even boot up to the cmd prompt in safe mode. And the startup-repair, while it USED to, will not NOW give me the option to use my last restore point. It just runs for about 15 minutes, then tells me it can't do squat.

Been trying for 2 hours to figure out how to simply get to a command prompt. I DO know how to run system restore FROM cmd, but I have to get there first... Tried booting up from another win7 disk I have, only it's a 32bit version, I'm running 64, so I get no options... And the operation to create a bootable USB, has been running for 15 minutes, and is only about half done according to the (lack of) progress ribbon...

waaayyy beyond frustrating... 468195

[Chuck Wintle]

Before my last try with uninstall-install, I created a restore point, just in case.

Didn't do much good- at this moment I'm trying to create a USB boot disk, because: I can't even boot up to the cmd prompt in safe mode. And the startup-repair, while it USED to, will not NOW give me the option to use my last restore point. It just runs for about 15 minutes, then tells me it can't do squat.

Been trying for 2 hours to figure out how to simply get to a command prompt. I DO know how to run system restore FROM cmd, but I have to get there first... Tried booting up from another win7 disk I have, only it's a 32bit version, I'm running 64, so I get no options... And the operation to create a bootable USB, has been running for 15 minutes, and is only about half done according to the (lack of) progress ribbon...

waaayyy beyond frustrating... 468195

do you have any other tools at your disposal?

https://www.diskpart.com/windows-7/command-prompt-windows-7-1984.html#H2-2

[Chuck Wintle]

https://www.diskpart.com/windows-7/command-prompt-windows-7-1984.html#H2-2

[Kev Williams]

I can't open a command prompt- whatsoever, no way no how- Trying to boot in safe mode with command prompt causes Windows to crash before the drivers are all loaded. The ONLY thing the computer will do is take me to the repair console, that can't repair anything...

The bootable USB I just made won't boot. I DO get more error messages though... Seems I need a Win7pro64 disk to boot, which I'm downloading now, about 20 minutes to go...

more to follow

>edit< dumass me, I didn't realize the repair console DOES give me the option to run system restore after the failed repair attempt- trying that --

<edit> - FINALLY found a restore point that worked-- next up, I guess, un-install all the hardware (output ports) and drivers, and a couple of programs that showed up on the 'why system restore didn't' lists..

Going to try to move the OS to the SSD drive, which supposedly the partition-fix program can do....

[Kev Williams]

Seems that when Defender flagged my G7 program as a virus, and I then went into Services and disabled Defender, it was in the process of quarantining and I interrupted the process. That's all I can figure as to why G7 was missing a critical start file afterwards. Then I went and corrupted the registry...

8 days of getting the computer ready- and it WAS ready- all for naught. Gave up trying to save anything, and put it out of its (and my) misery. And reformatted the drive...

I downloaded and ISO of Win7 Ultimate 64, burned it to a flash drive, the computer actually started installing it, no questions asked...

Woke up this morning to a fresh new computer that just needed some drivers loaded, found what I needed online-

Everything's loading up and working as it should, oddly enough! ;) And since I just went thru the whole process it's still fresh on the brain what to do and not do...

So in a day or two I'll be right back where I started, trying to keep the thing OFFLINE....

[Chuck Wintle]

Seems that when Defender flagged my G7 program as a virus, and I then went into Services and disabled Defender, it was in the process of quarantining and I interrupted the process. That's all I can figure as to why G7 was missing a critical start file afterwards. Then I went and corrupted the registry...

8 days of getting the computer ready- and it WAS ready- all for naught. Gave up trying to save anything, and put it out of its (and my) misery. And reformatted the drive...

I downloaded and ISO of Win7 Ultimate 64, burned it to a flash drive, the computer actually started installing it, no questions asked...

Woke up this morning to a fresh new computer that just needed some drivers loaded, found what I needed online-

Everything's loading up and working as it should, oddly enough! ;) And since I just went thru the whole process it's still fresh on the brain what to do and not do...

So in a day or two I'll be right back where I started, trying to keep the thing OFFLINE....

why is it so necessary to keep your computer offline? :D

[Curt Harms]

Get things working then create a complete image? When I was using Windows for anything significant I'd create a complete backup every few weeks or months. I used a product called TeraByte Image. It was/is available for Windows, Linux & DOS. I used the Linux version, it booted off a DVD and used DVDs for boot and restore media. My thinking was that I'd get the cleanest Windows image if Windows wasn't running at all. At the time it only took 3 DVDs, I'm sure it would take more today but if I used it today (I don't). I'd use a flash drive or external HD or SSD for restore media.

https://www.terabyteunlimited.com/image-for-linux/

I also used their BootIt products for a while. The caveat with BootIt is once you install it, you MUST use only BootIt to manipulate partitions. Using anything else will probably trash the boot sector.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Every time I replace my PC or laptop, I swear I'm going to create a virtual machine and run everything from there and leave the host machine untouched.
That way, in the future, all I have to do is move the virtual machine to the new hardware and not have to fool around doing stuff like this.

Since you have to rebuild from scratch, is there any chance you can just make it a virtual machine?

[Lee DeRaud]

Every time I replace my PC or laptop, I swear I'm going to create a virtual machine and run everything from there and leave the host machine untouched.
That way, in the future, all I have to do is move the virtual machine to the new hardware and not have to fool around doing stuff like this.

Since you have to rebuild from scratch, is there any chance you can just make it a virtual machine?
I don't think that helps Kev's main problem: at some level, the virtual machine is using the host's device drivers, which don't play well with the external hardware it's connected to. We're not talking "mainstream" here.

[mike stenson]

I have what could be a stupid question. Why is it networked to the internet? I'd just have a separate network, that is NOT connected to your router.

[Malcolm McLeod]

Every time I replace my PC or laptop, I swear I'm going to create a virtual machine and run everything from there and leave the host machine untouched.
That way, in the future, all I have to do is move the virtual machine to the new hardware and not have to fool around doing stuff like this.

Since you have to rebuild from scratch, is there any chance you can just make it a virtual machine?

I used this VM route in my previous life. When my PC came due for replacement, IT handed me a new, basic WIN PC and I would spend 2 weeks installing applications and transferring files.

Finally built a VM for every customer I had - with proper OS, application versions, and files for each. The VMs lived on a separate HD. I started w/ external HD, but switched to internal when the size vs form factor allowed. All IT had to do was install VMWare on my new PC and send it to me. I dropped in the D: drive, point VMWare at 'my' VMs, and I was back working - in 10 minutes.

I don't know if there is any salvation here for Mr. Williams, especially on the security side, but you can run an 'old' OS inside an new OS (on new hardware). (I recall running Win95 inside WinXP, to maintain backward compatibility to customers still running fossilized control systems in their plants.) And, you can allow/deny the VM access to the Ethernet port of the host OS.

[Jim Becker]

I like VMs, too. But in Kev's situation, there are hardware challenges that come into play with the devices he controls with each of those "mature" computers.

[Malcolm McLeod]

I don't think that helps Kev's main problem: at some level, the virtual machine is using the host's device drivers, which don't play well with the external hardware it's connected to. We're not talking "mainstream" here.

I don't know beans about Mr. Williams' production equipment, but I was successful in every attempt to network to some unusual (to say the least) automation and control devices. VM drivers and host seemed to generally play well for me - but that 'previous life' ended ~10-11 yrs back. My knowledge in this regard is certainly not mainstream anymore, but hope it may be some use.

For me VMs meant I could get software setup done and working - once! I routinely used 25-30 different applications, with some of them having 10 different released versions. And backups were a breeze.

[Kev Williams]

why is it so necessary to keep your computer offline? :D


-- From my opening post:

...I know that Microsoft is still 'background' updating win7's and other computers with 'critical' security updates, regardless of the fact their 'support' ended almost 2 years ago, and also regardless of the fact my computers have been set up specifically to NOT update for YEARS. Sounds like a conspiracy theory, but I've read this online, and been told this by a couple of customers who 'do' computers for a living. And these updates are supposedly slowing the hell out of the computers, supposedly on purpose... I can't speak to the truth-or not- behind the talk, but I DO know that ALL of my win7 computers are so ridiculously slow that they're unusable. I swear, the characters "(Not Responding)" appear in the upper ribbons so often they're tarting to burn-in to the monitors! These computers used to be fast..
--THAT'S why--- IMO Microsoft poses a bigger threat to my computers than hackers!

As to virtual machines, I have an XP machine on every computer. I love 'em, but hate 'em morel Because never ever have I been able to get them to do what I need them to do; USB ports won't work right, display issues, etc, for every 3 days of decent virtual computing I spent a full day fixing crap. I'll take real machines, thanks! ;)

My end goal is in sight, which is: ALL of my machines will be offline, EXCEPT for ONE Windows 11 computer I don't even have yet, that will sit by itself with no hardware connected to it whatsover. It will be my "internet" computer, accessible by every other computer via Remote Desktop, like I do now. That's ONE thing I know how to make work! :)

Once I get the new computer how I like it, I may just make an ISO image of it and burn it to a couple of new SSD's, put them in the garage and office computers, download some drivers and be done...

I wish... ;)

[Rich Engelhardt]

I used VMs all the time in a previous life for work.
Having the ability to revert back to a previous stable state if/when some update or software install went haywire was such a blessing.


I don't think that helps Kev's main problem: at some level, the virtual machine is using the host's device drivers, which don't play well with the external hardware it's connected to. We're not talking "mainstream" here.Maybe not but - it sure would have helped a lot when the Gravo7 install went bad.

[Lee DeRaud]

Maybe not but - it sure would have helped a lot when the Gravo7 install went bad.
Getting an app to install is only half the battle. Again, it depends on whether the host machine's driver can handle the legacy hardware GS7 is driving. Some of this stuff requires very low level access to control registers etc that post-XP Windows simply will not allow.

[Rich Engelhardt]

According to the OP - his machine busted during the install.

I know myself, I used to shut down my VM - then make a copy of it to another drive - before I made any changes to the operating system. That saved my bacon more than a few times when things went wrong.

[Jim Becker]

That's true, Rich...something happened during the original install on the new/temporary machine that caused the target application to not want to work. I believe he got beyond that with a complete rebuild. But another important factor in Kev's environment is that the old gear he has attached to the various older Windows machines have hardware requirements that are not possible on new machines with current OS. It's both physical connections plus the drivers want to write directly to hardware like Lee mentioned and that is totally precluded in recent versions of Windows for security reasons. So he can't use a VM to actually run the devices...no way to write to hardware memory directly. May it could be a good way to preserve a clean copy of the environment, even if it can't run the applications, but there are other ways to clone systems for backup, too. I don't envy Kev's situation trying to keep the older stuff online for sure!

[Lee DeRaud]

May it could be a good way to preserve a clean copy of the environment, even if it can't run the applications, but there are other ways to clone systems for backup, too.I wondered about that: if you have Windows XP/7/whatever and a bunch of apps installed on a VM, is there actually a way to transplant that whole image onto new hardware? By that I mean, not moving it to a new VM host, but installed as a "real" OS.

[mike stenson]

I wondered about that: if you have Windows XP/7/whatever and a bunch of apps installed on a VM, is there actually a way to transplant that whole image onto new hardware? By that I mean, not moving it to a new VM host, but installed as a "real" OS.

Probably not with windows. It's pretty trivial in unix/unix-like environments. But windows isn't as flexible in that regard as I recall. Then again, it's been years since I did anything outside the *nix environment.

[Jim Becker]

Probably not with windows. It's pretty trivial in unix/unix-like environments. But windows isn't as flexible in that regard as I recall. Then again, it's been years since I did anything outside the *nix environment.
Yes, that's a good point...I hadn't thought of the potential difficulty of transferring the image, but maybe there's an application that would support it. I've drifted away from Windows details over the years...

[Derek Meyer]

Acronis True Image allows you to take full backups of your system and convert them to virtual hard drive files that can then be mounted by a VM. I don't know if it works the other way, though.

[Kev Williams]

Decided to hijack my own thread for awhile ;)

-- I HATE COMPUTERS-- (I think they hate me worse)

NOW: trying to install win8.1 on a new Crucial 1tb internal drive. I formatted the drive in another computer.

Problem: This win8 computer will no way no how read a DVD, CD or flash drive, all of which are bootable.

There's 2 BIOS menus, an old style 'basic' menu:
468664

and the newfangled UEFI menu... (from an online pic, but exactly like mine)
468665
I've gotten into the UEFI menu many times before, not exactly sure how, but basically just tapping F keys during startup. But today, it never shows up...??

The UEFI menu is quite extensive, most important, I can enable and disable hardware in there. In the basic menu, I can't. Yesterday, in trying to get it to boot from a flash drive, I disabled the DVD. Now, I can only find the basic menu, no matter what I try, and while there's plenty of options there's no provision to enable/disable boot devices. I've tried enabling/disabling legacy booting, enabled network booting, which I can't do BUT during one boot up stint the machine DID read the DVD and started loading win7- And I was able to get a command prompt and found the install files on the flash drive-! But like a dummy I closed the win7 install, which closed up the whole deal, and I've been stuck ever since--

except for-- about 1/2 hour ago I tried booting up with the shift key held down and the computer started the win7 install! Like a bigger dummy I figured I found the right boot-up keys to push... but no, that would be too easy ;) --yes, I tried to start over and now left with 'no bootable device found' after every attempt...

I'm pretty sure if I could access the UEFI menu, enabling the DVD drive would allow it to read the win7 disk inside...

Never done a network boot, but seems a bit extensive based on the googling I just did...

[Jim Becker]

It's been "eons" since I did anything like that Kev, but I suspect order of bootable devices is important here, so that the machine will look to your intended boot device first for what you are trying to do.

[Lee DeRaud]

There's 2 BIOS menus, an old style 'basic' menu:
468664
I'm almost afraid to ask why (and/or how) a HP setup program is running on an Acer laptop...

[Kev Williams]

Lee, it's an HP desktop, I may have posted up something to do with an Acer laptop previously, sorry to confuse :)

Anyway-- after a few more tries with different F keys and bios changes to no avail, I tried booting up with shift PLUS ctrl, and the thing started loading off the Windows disc!

Taking no chances this time, I paused the install, shift-F10'd to get a prompt, found my flash drive was the E: drive, and ran the Win8 setup-- went about 3 seconds and I got 'this setup isn't compatible with thi version (7) of windows you're running'... heavy sigh...

SO, I'm just finishing the 7 install, hope it takes because, years ago I was told motherboards put in win8 computers didn't play well with win7-- All I want is for it to get far enough that I install win8 as an upgrade or whatever...

Maybe this time... ;)

[Lee DeRaud]

Lee, it's an HP desktop, I may have posted up something to do with an Acer laptop previously, sorry to confuse :)Ok, got it, Acer monitor on a desktop machine...just can't believe my lying eyes sometimes. :)

[Kev Williams]

I didn't notice the Acer monitor, lol... :)

So, this is a learnt-the-hard-way warning to anyone putting themselves thru similar computer repairs:

DO make sure the host computer is turned off before removing the second computer's drive you just formatted in it...

Yup. The win7 'puter that took me two tries including a reformat to get right, and it WAS right-- I fried the hard drive.

The SSD survived thankfully, so now it's the new win7 drive, while the new win8 is back to square one.

At least all this practice has made the 3rd rebuild go pretty fast. And I know better what's needed to get the old 8 going.

Always a silver lining I guess ;)

[Jim Becker]

https://sat02pap002files.storage.live.com/y4menGL8Gbqkm6k9aLKWfQH244gmT1IR37lqS3ECYFeJZcBR2p FFcM0N7Bje4I60aWFSfOIAgKKj3wbLGcvrO_C2B6IOv-VLRLriiic6RMxLkJEDsInx9-NFWrguytyufTqt6SfFIsrh7RlK6CRH2q9IxNVJbT8KEMGsMb8b qH3T6BAVGqNeoGJH0s8X_AfYR98?width=408&height=479&cropmode=none