Starrett disappointment.

[John Miliunas]

Kinda' bummed here. I've always held Starrett in real high regards but, my latest encounter has been less than pleasant. My family typically does not buy me tools for special occasions, as they really don't have a clue as to what I want or need. Nonetheless, my youngest daughter paid attention when I mentioned a "Starrett Digitape" sometime before Christmas. Sure enough, she pooled enough $$ together and got me one! :D I left it in the package out in the shop until such time I needed to use it. Well, long about a week or so ago, she was out in the shop and spotted it still in the package and wondered why I wasn't using it. I was just getting ready to start up a mini-project and said, "Well then, let's break that puppy out and take it for a spin!" :) She got it out of the package for me and I pulled out a board for measuring "digitally"! I read the instructions and all is pretty straightforward. Problem is, it did NOT properly read the correct dimension! After trying several times, the "trouble shooting" section said to pull the battery and then put it back in to "reactivate" the readout. Did this several times with the same results. There's also a battery icon on the readout with an "X" through it, indicating that either, the unit has to be reactivated or the battery replaced. Remember, brand new unit here!) After trying the "reactivation" routine several times and it still giving inaccurate readings both, my daughter and I were kind of dejected.:(

I told here "not to worry". I said Starrett is a straight up outfit and I'd contact them for a resolution. That's exactly what I did just as soon as she left the shop. I jumped on their site and wrote their CS dept. a detailed email explaining exactly what is going on. Well folks, I'm here to sadly say I got absolutely zero response from Starrett!!! This is well over a week now! Nothing. Nada. Zippo. Zilcho! As in, it appears they don't give a hoot! Worse yet, I checked at three different retailers looking for a new battery, with no luck. I finally found the right flavor/number on-line and ordered some, which I still haven't received. The bummer is, if the fresh battery doesn't take care of it, I'll be rather P.O.'d! :mad: Worse yet, my daughter is now the one who feels bad about getting me a "bum" present. I asked and she's not exactly sure what she did with the receipt, so even taking it back is not an option. :(

So, moral of the story: Keep your receipts, regardless of the OEM!!! (And tell your gift givers to do the same!) It appears that even companies we hold highly are very willing to leave you high and dry. BTW, for those who may suggest calling them, I may try that but, I still stand behind the idea of, if you're going to give me an on-line venue to try and resolve issues, then you should respond!!!! :mad: Besides, my experience with calling many of these companies simply adds to the furor by having to navigate through a myriad of menu's before and if I can ever get to talk to a human!!! Guess I never expected this type of treatment from a company like Starrett! Rant mode: "OFF". Thanks for listening and be careful out there!:) :cool:

[John Russell]

Hello John,
I bought one of those also a year or so ago. the "digi" part quit working early and I also did an email to Starrett with no response. I have a combo square of their and it is good quality and requires to contact with them, so I was also disappointed that the readout quit working AND they did not respond. Good luck with it.
JR

[John Miliunas]

Well, that's yet another bummer! :mad: Here's what I "love" about their "response" when you submit an inquiry:

E-Mail Response Form - Confirmation
http://www.starrett.com/interface/spacer.gif
Thank-you!

Your e-mail has been received and will be processed as quickly as possible.
************************

"...as quickly as possible." Yeah. Right! :mad: BUYER BEWARE!!!! :mad: :) :cool:

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

That sucks, I feel sorry for you and your daughter.

My question is, when and buy whom was Starrett bought out by?

Get on the phone, complain bitterly, send a piece of snail mail their way.

Cheers!

[Dev Emch]

Starrett is an old US machine tool company making highly precise instruments. Rulers, micrometers, intrimikes, surface plates, etc. As long as US metal cutting machine tool was alive and well, so was Starrett.

But as everyone high tails it to china with our tails between our legs, companies like Starrett are forced to reinvent themselves. They have branched off into other areas such as digital instruments, hole saws, bimetal bandsaw blades and a host of other imported trinkets.

More and more, I am finding significant numbers of items not made here but outsourced from china. For example, I understand that all JO Blocks from Starrett are now made in china.

I do have a Starrett digital caliber. It works great. You do have to zero the instrument frequently to make sure your accurate. This type of feature is actually used to set a virtual origin however and I have used the feature like this. But it has no off switch and turns itself off in time. The constant on off on off cycle that this instrument goes through when doing machinst type work burned out the batteries to soon. They are good for about 6 months in a machine shop and about 2 years in a wood shop. So to lazy to buy batteries over and over again, I just picked up the old dial caliber from starrett and have been using it. You have add numbers in you brain sometimes but who cares.

So I feel your pain with these digital items. My last real job with a real PITA boss was that of computer hardware and software engineer. So I know a wee bit about designing ASICS and real time embedded control system software. Personally, I am weary of bringing computers into the shop. Esp. consumer grade computers such as this digi-tape. This unit is most likely a FRU or Field Replaceable Unit made only who knows where.

So at this point, I would be looking for a relative origin reset feature. Was the instrument reading anything prior to pulling out the tape? In other words, was it zeroed correctly? Tell us more about what you did and what you read.

Then on Monday, call Starrett customer service on the phone. Make sure you tell them how upset you are and that you want answers now. If this thing is defective, they should replace it. In the past, they have been very good about fixing or replacing instruments.

But you should also get a welcome to the modern age we live in. For example, in the old days Starrett and everyone else used to make engineers squares by grinding an L shaped square blank from a solid square of tool steel. Then the sides were peen rivoted to this blank and the square was then super precision grind for surface finish and accuracy. By canting the handle part in the light, you could see the three or so peen rivots just barely gleaning in the light. Today, they cut a slit into the handle section and rivot in a single arm or blade. This is much cheaper and faster to make but not nearly as robust and accurate as the old way. I now look for vintage Brown & Sharpe and vintage Starrett engineering squares on ebay.

Its frustrating has the dickens....

[Andy Hoyt]

I got one of these about four or five years ago as a Christmas gift, and said, "Cool!". But I found the logic and memory of the digital feature useless, cumbersome and highly problematic.

I did use it a few times in the presence of the giver to show my appreciation (momma didn't raise a fool) and then quickly relegated it to the drawer with all the other equally useless whizmo gizmos I've acquired over the years.

Nothing beats a 25' Stanley.

[tod evans]

Nothing beats a 25' Stanley.

amen!!!!!!!

[Michael Ballent]

Dev, have you tried the Incra Guaranteed squares? The blade is milled from 1/4" Al and they are guaranteed to be square to .001. I recently bought the 7" version and it is a great addition. They even screw the whole thing down while milling it to make sure that it does not move around. Oh yeah USA made :D

[John Miliunas]

Dev, I did indeed zero it out and it did indeed show "zero" having done that. As it happens, I have a number of other digital readout devices in my shop, all of which have the capacity and need to zero them out in order to recalibrate them. I've not had the same issues with them, including the el cheapo Harbor Freight digital calipers. I have three of them scattered throughout the shop and, believe it or not, they measure within 1/1000th of each other!!! A bargain at twice the price and I bought all of them on sale for I believe right around $16.00 USD!!! :) I also have a couple of the Wixey DRO's, both of which, I'm extremely happy with and neither of those are exactly what you would call super high quality, as they relate to other available DRO's. I've priced some of the ones found for machine shop use and the price/quality difference is staggering!:eek:

Mind you, I'm NOT looking for the accuracy of the machine shop DRO's or even that of my Wixey units. Heck, the Starrett Digitape only goes down to a 1/16th to begin with. Sadly, it's always off by, at least, that same 1/16th"!!! What I am looking for is to be able to have it function, at the very least, within the capacity it is advertised to do. I'm also looking for some satisfaction from the OEM via the venue they have given me to do so! I really don't think that's asking for too much! :rolleyes: Plus, if you check out their Web site, you may note that they give you a toll call number to contact them!!! Say what??? They sell you a defective product, then don't respond via their on-line form and now expect you to pay for a toll call to resolve an issue regarding an item you already paid $$$ for! Sorry, but that's just wrong!:mad:

FWIW, I do indeed have a Stanley 25', as well as a couple other tapes. I also had a LV 16', which I just threw out, because I found it's NOT accurate!!! I've been testing a DRO for my table saw and found inconsistencies between it and the LV tape. Well, I took my Stanley and it matched exactly with the DRO. I then took the Starrett and matched it up against the Stanley. Just comparing the tape readings (NOT the DRO), it too matched both, the Stanley and the DRO on the TS. The Stanley and Starrett tapes both matched the TS tape, as well, right out to 54", as well as all the increments between. :) So, in favor of the Starrett, it appears that the tape itself is fine and accurate. However, the DRO portion of it is not and it looks as though I may end up spending more $$$ to even find out if it will work as advertised. In the end, I feel a whole lot worse for my daughter's sake than my own. Right now, I wish I woulda' kept my yap shut about the stupid Digitape and just bought it on my own. Lesson learned! :) :cool:

[Mike Henderson]

John, Why not give Starrett a call and see if they will respond when you complain "in person".

Alternatively, look up the president’s name and address in their financial data and send him/her a letter saying how much you had previously respected Starrett products and how disappointed you are with the Digitape (and how upset your daughter is). You probably won’t get a response from the president but you may from one of the underlings.

Both approaches have worked for me in the past.

Mike

[Jim Becker]

John, as someone who works closely with a lot of folks in the contact center business, I'll say to you...call them on the phone. MANY companies (actually, most companies) are not setup properly to respond to email on a timely basis, some of them are really large companies, too. It's not that the technology doesn't exist to route your electronic inquiry to the right place for quick action...it does and I sell it...but even in 2006, they still don't treat email and web contacts the same way as phone contacts even though it makes absolute sense to do so.

Sorry that your gift is giving you and your daughter such angst. Never a good thing!

[Bob Marino]

John, as someone who works closely with a lot of folks in the contact center business, I'll say to you...call them on the phone. MANY companies (actually, most companies) are not setup properly to respond to email on a timely basis, some of them are really large companies, too. It's not that the technology doesn't exist to route your electronic inquiry to the right place for quick action...it does and I sell it...but even in 2006, they still don't treat email and web contacts the same way as phone contacts even though it makes absolute sense to do so.

Sorry that your gift is giving you and your daughter such angst. Never a good thing!

John,

Agree with Jim completey, give them a call - I would bet they would take care of you.

Bob

[John Miliunas]

John, as someone who works closely with a lot of folks in the contact center business, I'll say to you...call them on the phone. MANY companies (actually, most companies) are not setup properly to respond to email on a timely basis, some of them are really large companies, too. It's not that the technology doesn't exist to route your electronic inquiry to the right place for quick action...it does and I sell it...but even in 2006, they still don't treat email and web contacts the same way as phone contacts even though it makes absolute sense to do so.

Sorry that your gift is giving you and your daughter such angst. Never a good thing!

Jim, et all, who have suggested calling them directly: I may indeed do that, although it would be under extreme duress and against my better judgment! Again, I think it's just adding insult to injury, not to mention yet another cost to me for a product already purchased once. :mad: I guess in my way of thinking, if a company is not setup properly to handle inquiries by a method they provide, don't set it up at all!!! :mad: I guess my "luck" regarding contacting companies via email or their provided venue has generally been positive and, given that Starrett purports to be the type of company they are, I would've expected the same from them. Hah! That's what I get for thinking!:rolleyes: :D :cool:

[Bruce Page]

Bummer John, I hope the new battery fixes the problem. BTW, I have had good luck finding odd batteries at Radio Shack.

As the others have said, give Starrett a call.

[Barry O'Mahony]

John,

I don't know about you, but when I feel like being ignored, I send an email to the CS dep't of a randomly-picked company. ;) My track record of getting a response, even from companies I've otherwise had very good service from, is near-zero. Like you, I don't understand why they even publish the email address in the first place.

This sounds like a dead battery. Have you tried getting a replacement at Radio Shack? They kinda pride themselves as being "Battery Central". I know an exec there who jokes that the main purpose for selling alot of what they do is so people keep coming back to buy batteries. If they don't have it in the store they should be able to order it.

They sell you a defective product, then don't respond via their on-line form and now expect you to pay for a toll call to resolve an issue regarding an item you already paid $$$ for!I didn't think anyone paid "toll charges" anymore. ;) Don't most cell phone plans come with free long distance these days?

[Allen Bookout]

Dev, have you tried the Incra Guaranteed squares? The blade is milled from 1/4" Al and they are guaranteed to be square to .001. I recently bought the 7" version and it is a great addition. They even screw the whole thing down while milling it to make sure that it does not move around. Oh yeah USA made :D

This information does not help John much but I am glad to know about it. Thanks Michael! Allen

[Bernie Weishapl]

John same problem you have. I had to call them to get them to respond. Sent 4 e-mails with no response. I sent it back and got my money back. Took about a month to get that to. I will never buy from Starret again. :mad:

[John Miliunas]

John same problem you have. I had to call them to get them to respond. Sent 4 e-mails with no response. I sent it back and got my money back. Took about a month to get that to. I will never buy from Starret again. :mad:


Hmmm...doesn't sound too encouraging here, even after a phone call! :mad: That's just totally poor CS!!! Given all the facts herein, I may try to call them, but only once! If they can't resolve it to my satisfaction, that's the last of my (our) money they get, as well! Which is too bad, because I've been quite happy with their combination square, but if they can't make this right for me, then it's on to Brown & Sharpe for the protactor and any other critical measuring tools I may need! :D

Thanks much for all the input, guys! Greatly appreciate it! :) :cool:

[John Weber]

Hey buddy,

Sorry about the tape. I got one as a gift several years ago, and like it. The battery quit a year or so ago, but it's still a very nice tape. That said, I think you simply need to go the reseller and ask for a replacement, if it was online, there should be a record somewhere, if it was local, they still might exchange it for a new one.

While Starrett should repsond to the email since they offer the option, a digitape is sort of a non-repairable item that it's easier to replace then try to fix. My guess is they would tell you to return or send it in to them for repair/repalcement.

If nothing else, use it as is, and rather then get upset at Starrett, just think about your daughter picking it out for you, gotta bring a smile to your face.

I still think the original retailer is you best course of action. Most have liberal Christmas return policies until the end of January.

Good Luck Buddy - John

[John Miliunas]

Hey buddy,

Sorry about the tape. I got one as a gift several years ago, and like it. The battery quit a year or so ago, but it's still a very nice tape. That said, I think you simply need to go the reseller and ask for a replacement, if it was online, there should be a record somewhere, if it was local, they still might exchange it for a new one.

While Starrett should repsond to the email since they offer the option, a digitape is sort of a non-repairable item that it's easier to replace then try to fix. My guess is they would tell you to return or send it in to them for repair/repalcement.

If nothing else, use it as is, and rather then get upset at Starrett, just think about your daughter picking it out for you, gotta bring a smile to your face.

I still think the original retailer is you best course of action. Most have liberal Christmas return policies until the end of January.

Good Luck Buddy - John

Hey Dude, where 'ya been hiding???? :confused: Good to see you're still around! Drop me a line sometime! :)

Anyhow, I dug around and, lo and behold, included in the Digitape instructions is a phone number to Starrett. A "toll free" number to Starrett!!! :D I will call tomorrow and see which way they want to go on this. Guess I'm a stubborn old coot and if I buy (OK, even if my daughter does!) something in good faith, I expect it to work and, if it doesn't, they should be the ones to make good on it. :) Otherwise, yes it is a nice tape but, thrice the price of one w/o the DRO! Just another "live and learn" lesson, I guess. My daughter was able to come up with a receipt and, if we can't get a resolution through Starrett, I'll take the dern thing back, buy another Stanley and never buy another Starrett product. (Well, at least NOT a new one!) In the end, a pretty simple lesson, me thinks! :D

Hey, hope to "see" you around a bit more often!!! :) :cool:

[Randy Meijer]

Sounds like John has temporarily solved his "phone" problem; but his comments reminded me of a site I discovered recently.


http://www.paulenglish.com/ivr/ (http://www.paulenglish.com/ivr/)


This site lists some of the major companies in the US and the codes necessary to bypass the automatic answering system and directly contact a real human being. I tested one number on it and it worked just fine....can't say if they all work or not?? Starrett isn't on the list; but this may be helpful to someone in the future went dealing with some other big company.:mad: :mad:

[John Lucas]

and get wo batteries. I have had two and presently have one (other is lost.) My only problem has been the battery and the LED or LCDs or whatever they use for display. If yu leave the unit in the car during winter, do not exopect it to work until warmed up. If you leave the unit in the car suring the summer, expect the display to be blackened until it comes back toroom temperature. Other than that, works fine. Call on phone and get it taken care of.

[Frank Pellow]

Jim, et all, who have suggested calling them directly: I may indeed do that, although it would be under extreme duress and against my better judgment! Again, I think it's just adding insult to injury, not to mention yet another cost to me for a product already purchased once. :mad: I guess in my way of thinking, if a company is not setup properly to handle inquiries by a method they provide, don't set it up at all!!! :mad: I guess my "luck" regarding contacting companies via email or their provided venue has generally been positive and, given that Starrett purports to be the type of company they are, I would've expected the same from them. Hah! That's what I get for thinking!:rolleyes: :D :cool:
I agree with you on this John. For me, email is much more convenient than phoning and it provides a better audit trail. Over time, I am learning which companies provide good email support and am gravitating to them over the compaies that seem to ignore thier email.

I feal really sorry for your daughter and hope that you get this resolved. I guess that I would recommned a phone call in this case because of her involvement.

[Frank Pellow]

...
I also had a LV 16', which I just threw out, because I found it's NOT accurate!!!
...

John, did you tell Lee Valley about this? I bet that they would take it back no matter how long you have had it and even if you don't have a receipt.

[John Miliunas]

John, did you tell Lee Valley about this? I bet that they would take it back no matter how long you have had it and even if you don't have a receipt.

Frank. No I hadn't but, after re-reading my note regarding it, I did indeed fish it out of my trash bin and intend to do so! Your note here kind of seals the deal on contacting LV, as they have always been a very upstanding outfit to deal with, unlike my experience thus far with Starrett. :) It would indeed be nice to get an accurate replacement for it, as I really like the feel and action of the tape and it's always been my "go to" instrument, because it's the "Right to Left" version and, it's also the "Blindman's Tape", making the readout easier for me. :) Thanks for the suggestion!:) :cool:

[John Miliunas]

Sounds like John has temporarily solved his "phone" problem; but his comments reminded me of a site I discovered recently.


http://www.paulenglish.com/ivr/ (http://www.paulenglish.com/ivr/)


This site lists some of the major companies in the US and the codes necessary to bypass the automatic answering system and directly contact a real human being. I tested one number on it and it worked just fine....can't say if they all work or not?? Starrett isn't on the list; but this may be helpful to someone in the future went dealing with some other big company.:mad: :mad:



Many thanks, Randy!!! That's one handy list to have! I've gone ahead and added it to my "Favorites"!!!:D :cool:

[John Miliunas]

Well, here's where I got today: I called the 800 number they included with the instruction sheet. Once dialed, I got some pre-recorded message to go to this site: http://www.vanity800.com/ !:eek: Nothing else on the message, just that! Man, talk about feeling totally and completely feeling betrayed by a company one would never expect this from!!! :mad:

So now I'm completely ticked off, to put it very lightly. So, I dig out my calling card and call the dang LD number on their site. I finally got to talk to someone in Tech Support BUT, this fella does not deal with the Digitape. He does tell me that the digital readout on it "will have 1/16th" plus or minus" tolerance! Huh???? So, over the course of even a small project, you can expect something to the tune of 1/2" or so off??? Even worse on bigger projects! :eek: Eventually, I tell him about the little battery icon, which from Day 1 displays with a strike-through on it. He says he can transfer me to the hardware area, where they can take care of me. (Still on my dime, of course.) I did ask if there was an 800 number I could call, but he said they don't have a "public 800" number and that was by decision of Mr. Starrett!!!! :eek:

I get transfered, but only to some receptionist who then says she'll transfer me to the lady "who takes care of the Digitape inquiries". Fine. Sure enough, I get there and get her voice mail!!! I duly left my name, number and short blurb regarding needing some type of resolution on this tape they produce. Need I even say that I never got a call back???:mad:

Now, strangely enough, after I started this thread, I went back to their site and dropped another email and included the url for this thread. Well, lo and behold, I got an email from them today!!! (After my call, of course!) Here's the total dialog from their reply:
Your digitape should be returned to Starrett Evans rule division 6555Fain street Charleston S.C.29406 please include a note describing the problem and your return address

Huh???? First, absolutely no explanation of what their intent is. No apology or anything regarding the trouble I'm having with their product. Finally, this item has already been paid for AND shipping has already been paid once to get it to our house. Now I'm going to pay shipping again for their defective product with absolutely no idea of what they plan on doing about it??? :confused: I think NOT!!! I did reply to their email telling them that this "solution" was NOT acceptable, particularly having to pay to ship the item back to them. Again, it should come as no surprise that I did NOT get a response to that, either.

So, bottom line: I will check at the brick & mortar store tomorrow, armed with the original billing/shipping info and see if they won't give me a refund on it. My daughter has already said that I should just go ahead and pick out something else with the money. I explained to her that it is absolutely NOT her fault and that even companies with a big name can treat their customers very poorly. She understands and is good with it.:)

In the meantime, I'll find another 16' tape to my liking and check it against the Stanley. I can guarantee you that it will NOT be a Starrett, nor will I ever purchase another new Starrett tool! Just for grins, I did check at the Brown & Sharpe site and wouldn't you know it? They do indeed have an 800 for both, sales and Tech Support. And, if by some rare chance, anyone at Starrett is reading this, you should be totally and completely ashamed of yourselves for treating people like garbage. It's terrible when a person tries to buy a US product should get kicked in the teeth when he/she receives a defective piece!:mad: :cool:

[John Weber]

John,

Ouch, wow they hit your hot-button. Anyway, B&S makes excellent tools as well. I would still just return or exchange it and not fool with Starrett.

I've been busy as heck, sort of fell off the forums awhile. I did pick up a new little LN at the show last weekend, so at least the fleet is growing a little, even if nothing made out of wood ever leaves the shop.:)

John

[Corey Hallagan]

Sorry to hear about the problem John. I am with you though, if a company is going to pretend to operate on the internet and make avaialble those capabilities then they should respond in the same manner as a phone call.
Hope it all works out!

Corey

[Howard Barlow]

I'm sorry for you and your daughter. I know she is disappointed. But, thanks for keeping us apprised of the situation.

I know any company can drop the ball. However, when one walks around it after dropping it, well...

[Frank Pellow]

John, I am sorry that you continued to get the run-around from Starrett even after you phoned.

I guess that they don't want to stay in business very much longer. Based on you experience, I certainly will never purchase any of their products and I hope that many other folks here will do the same.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

And some people ask why guys buy stuff from China..?

At least when you buy it from China it is cheap, and if it does not live up to expectations, well, it WAS cheap, and WAS from China, so ..... :rolleyes:

It just plain sucks when you go to the trouble to support a homegrown company, and then you get treated like last weeks trash.

I only buy the Shinwa rules, VERY nice and not too spendy.

Cheers!

[Allen Bookout]

Count me in. Allen

[Karl Laustrup]

Well, Spring thanks for this post. Sorry you've had all the problems with what should have been a very easy solution on Starrett's part. :mad:

I was planning the purchase of a couple of their products. Not now. There are too many like products out there, be they throw away as Stu says, or on a par with Starrett. Whichever the case, it comes down to "CUSTOMER SERVICE" as much as price for me.

Starrett Company, when you are looking at totally red numbers in your books and no customers to buy your products, I would guess you'll be sitting there scratching your collective heads trying to figure out what happened. :confused: :o

Karl

[Dan Racette]

In looking up their website, I see a division between "precision tools" and "construction tools". I think that the company may have made some mistakes in doing this. I remember similar things happened to a lot of "traditionally good names" in the eighties.

I think they might be leveraging the name on the construction side. Obviously!!! from what john has experienced.

On the "other side" I don't know many machinists to begin with, but the ones that I do know would order from machinist's supply places that only carry the precision lines, or at least have a clear difference in their sales of the two lines.

I think starrett needs to make a decision here soon or they will go the way of other companies that did this, and now their top-line goods garner no respect and/or they are out of business. I, personally, would continue to buy the name starrett, but on precision tools only.

Very sad. John, keep us apprised of what is going on.

[Ellen Benkin]

Take it back to the seller and tell them it doesn't work. Even without a receipt you may be able to get a new one. Or a store credit, with which you can buy something that works.

I feel sorry for your daughter, who was just trying to make Dad happy.

[Barry O'Mahony]

He does tell me that the digital readout on it "will have 1/16th" plus or minus" tolerance! To be honest, I don't know why you are surprised by this. The smallest graduations on the tape are 1/16". This is typical of tape measures, which are not precision measuring instruments. The Loosely-riveted hook at the end makes them inherently "sloppy", at the expense of making it easy to do both inside and outside measurements. In other words, these things are designed for the type of ease-of-use and limited precision that you need on a construction site.

Looking at the product brochure, it says the digital readout works by reading barcodes off the tape. That being the case, it seems appropriate that its precision would equal the smallest graduation on the tape itself. Also, a key limitation of digital readouts is that they are, well, "digital". They take discrete jumps from one number to the next; interpolation, as one can do with an analog indicator (like when you "split the difference" between marks on a ruler), is not possible. It also sounds to me as if you're trying to use this tool for an application that a tape measure, especially a digital one, is not appropriate for.

I'm sorry a weak battery seems to be stressing you out so much.:( Have you tried Radio Shack? It may be the simplest solution.

[John Miliunas]

To be honest, I don't know why you are surprised by this. The smallest graduations on the tape are 1/16". This is typical of tape measures, which are not precision measuring instruments. The Loosely-riveted hook at the end makes them inherently "sloppy", at the expense of making it easy to do both inside and outside measurements. In other words, these things are designed for the type of ease-of-use and limited precision that you need on a construction site.

Looking at the product brochure, it says the digital readout works by reading barcodes off the tape. That being the case, it seems appropriate that its precision would equal the smallest graduation on the tape itself. Also, a key limitation of digital readouts is that they are, well, "digital". They take discrete jumps from one number to the next; interpolation, as one can do with an analog indicator (like when you "split the difference" between marks on a ruler), is not possible. It also sounds to me as if you're trying to use this tool for an application that a tape measure, especially a digital one, is not appropriate for.

I'm sorry a weak battery seems to be stressing you out so much.:( Have you tried Radio Shack? It may be the simplest solution.

Barry, I did read the product info and nowhere does it say "plus/minus 1/16" accuracy on the readout". Every piece of their advertising stresses "accuracy" of both, the tape and the DRO. You're right in that, I was probably foolish is believing their advertising. BTW, nowhere in their instructions does it even remotely infer the "plus/minus" deviation of the readout. Also, after many more attempts with the thing, 1/16th" deviation was on the very conservative side!!! :mad:

Stressing about a battery? With all due respect, Barry, I think you may be missing the intent of this thread. Bad battery? Maybe. Don't know, as I could find one nearby and Radio Shack isn't a nearby store. Besides, Starrett's documentation specifies a "long lasting Duracell battery" is included. It does not specify having to locate and go to a RS dealer to buy one and see if their product works or not. :rolleyes:

Ultimately, it goes beyond the battery or even a defective piece of merchandise. The point being, a company which many folks believe to be an upstanding outfit, with a fantastic reputation has now decided that they're just better off to take the money and run! Dan mentions that he will continue to buy their precision machinist tools. That's great. I think they make a fine precision tool but, it now appears that part of that may be at the expense of other market segments, which they've elected to treat like dirt. For me, there's no question that Starrett will NOT be getting any more of my hard-earned $$$ USD due to that marketing strategy! :) :cool:

[tod evans]

john, i just called starrett and spoke to one of the sales reps. they should be responding on this forum shortly......tod

i just got off the phone with scott at starrett and they opt to not join in forums on the net. he did make it very clear that if you return the tape they will replace it with one that they hand test prior to shipping. he actually seemed like a nice guy who is trying to be accomodating.....the reason i even called starrett is i had a hard time swollowing the claim that an american company wouldn`t back their product, even a digitape? starretts phone number is 978-249-3551, the guy really was down to earth......02 tod

[Dan Racette]

If you don't get the resolution you desire You SHOULD take your business elsewhere! This is the part of the american economy that I hate. I would call per Tod's post! maybe they can redeem themselves to you in some way, John.

Generally speaking:
No Trust anymore. No reputations. Consumers like us, have dealt with these blows for too long, and if we don't take our business elsewhere, companies will continue the practices.

John is voting with his wallet and more people need to do that.

There are many products/companies that I don't buy based on their practices, delta, being one of them. Porter Cable a close second. Starrett is now on my "watch" list, as well as Jet.

Dewalt has moved to my "buy" list, thanks in part to John.

I believe that there are folks out there that have been burned as bad as John on tools costing in the 1000's of dollars. I think we should support John in his decision to vote with his wallet, by at least, being a little skeptical if we were to purchase that name. I said I would continue to use their "precision" tools, but frankly, I don't really need anymore, so they still won't get my money. Plus, when a friend asks for my opinion. I will be relaying this story. (which is, of course, the most powerful sales tool, word of mouth).

Stick up for what you believe in, John. It is you right. Let us all know if there is any more follow up from the company.

dan

[Michael Ballent]

There are many products/companies that I don't buy based on their practices, delta, being one of them. Porter Cable a close second. Starrett is now on my "watch" list, as well as Jet.

Dewalt has moved to my "buy" list, thanks in part to John.

...

Stick up for what you believe in, John. It is you right. Let us all know if there is any more follow up from the company.

dan

Not to rain on your parade, but Black and Decker now own Dewalt, Porter-Cable, and Delta Machinery... The conglomerates keep getting bigger and bigger :o

[Frank Chaffee]

Wow John,
I admire you for your persistent step-by-step insistence on manufacturing and Customer Service accountability from Starrett. Your efforts benefit all consumers, and for that I thank you.

Before you completely write off Starrett as a company to deal with however, please consider this: Starrett produced precision measuring instruments for use in machining in this and other countries for a long time.

In Starrett there exists a significant investment in high level manufacturing capability that you and I have benefited from.

There are few machinists active in this country relative to previous times.

Whether Starrett is publicly or privately owned I do not know, but I will suggest that the change of markets today that accompanies our world’s production requirements and capabilities is challenging to Starrett.

I surmise that any large investment is currently controlled by attorneys and bean counters, and that the methods employed by these [often disarranged] peoples are antithetical to the common life values we have worshipped and lived in the past.

Case in point from our very locale:

Johnson Wax inheritor invests in modest land development consonant with community values (due to his family’s relationship with Frank Lloyd Wright).

Our overall economy turns direction after 444 days.

A succession of big monies takes control of local land.

Ruthless Machiavellian manager is brought onboard to set things right.

Local boy who worked this land for 20 years (more than ½ of his life) is sent away and commits suicide.

Manager moves on after 18 months to perform in other arenas. He may be with Starrett now, or any other center of our collective investments, helping corpses grow here or overseas.

Frankly John (couldn’t resist that), I’m more inclined to cleave to the many who have invested their lives in making Starrett great than to write off the whole company because of a transient predatory manager.

Frank

[EDIT: But let me add that I saw that poor excuse for a measuring devise the other day at John’s shop and it in no way compares with any of Starrett’s other creations I have seen.]

[Andy Hoyt]

john, i just called starrett and spoke to one of the sales reps. they should be responding on this forum shortly......tod

i just got off the phone with scott at starrett and they opt to not join in forums on the net. he did make it very clear that if you return the tape they will replace it with one that they hand test prior to shipping. he actually seemed like a nice guy who is trying to be accomodating.....the reason i even called starrett is i had a hard time swollowing the claim that an american company wouldn`t back their product, even a digitape? starretts phone number is 978-249-3551, the guy really was down to earth......02 tod

Tod - Been thinking about this thread and your "I don't have the answer" thread all day as they've both been troubling me. I wonder if I'm the only one who sees the parallel; and perhaps the answer. Technology - and specifically these frigging computers we stare at.

[Rob Littleton]

John,

I think you should quit whining and go and get a battery.........

Oh sorry, that's the English customer service I am used to :-)

Just pulling your chain bud :D

[Karl Laustrup]

Hey Spring, if you don't get a new one or some relief, may I suggest a 12 lb. sledge. That should fix it mighty fine.

I'll come down if I can have a swing and take pix. You think Casey should get the first swing? Or would you want the honor?

Karl

[Matt Meiser]

Hey Spring, if you don't get a new one or some relief, may I suggest a 12 lb. sledge. That should fix it mighty fine.

I'll come down if I can have a swing and take pix. You think Casey should get the first swing? Or would you want the honor?

Karl

Then ship it back to the address they gave you with a note that it doesn't seem to work right.

[John Miliunas]

Once again, thanks for all the great suggestions! Tod, I especially appreciate your going the extra mile to try and help with a resolution. You rock, man!!!:)

I was just plain old too busy today to get over to HD and see about a refund or possibly a replacement. BUT, here's what I did do today: I started a second job, part time. What's that got to do with this thread? Oh nothing...Except for the fact that the job happens to be at a very popular WW store in our area. These guys sell a number of different brand measuring devices and wouldn't you just know it, the "S" brand is among them!!! :D You're free to draw you own conclusions on that one! :D

Oh, and for whatever it's worth, I have definitely decided that I am not spending my hard-earned money on additional shipping costs back to that particular outfit, especially after the treatment I've received from them! At this point, it's way beyond the accuracy (or lack of) of the product. It's now a matter of principal and the acknowledgement that their CS is terrible. If I can get my (my daughter's) money back or get a unit which does indeed work from the reseller of this thing, I'll call this case closed. Heck, even if I don't get satisfaction there, I'll still call it closed! :) I've got a LOT more pressing issues healthwise to deal with right now, without having to mess with a Mickey Mouse outfit unwilling to do the right thing and just add more stress to my life.

With that, let's just let this dead dog lie and move on to more important things. Thanks again for your support, gents!!! :) :cool:

[Barry O'Mahony]

John,

I'd just like to stress one thing, that goes beyond the matter of the Digitape. That's the fact that tape measures, whether the Digitape or any other, are not precision measuring instruments. They're designed for construction and carpentry, and not the kind of precision one may need in woodworking.

Tape measures are manufactured in what is essentially a specialized type of printing press. The "plate" is a rubber belt. As you can imagine, rubber stretches, and otherwise changes shape due to temperature and other factors. It's not at all unusual for two tape measures to have markings that that are in slightly different places, or for an inch on a single tape to be different lengths on different parts of the tape.

So what is a reasonable precision to expect? In the absence of any other guidance from the manufacturer, the rule of thumb is the precision is on the order of the smallest graduation on the instrument; the old "significant digits" criterion for a measurement.

For alot of woodworking measurements, this doesn't matter. If one needs two boards the same length, about 3 feet in length, you can use a tape to make them the same and it doesn't matter if they are in fact both 36 1/32". However, if you need to then make another board that's half the length, making it match the 18" mark on the tape may not result in a board that's exactly half the length of the other two.

If one needs better precision then that, they are better off using a steel ruler with engraved markings, rather than something that was produced via a printing-type process.

[tod evans]

Tod - Been thinking about this thread and your "I don't have the answer" thread all day as they've both been troubling me. I wonder if I'm the only one who sees the parallel; and perhaps the answer. Technology - and specifically these frigging computers we stare at.

andy, computers are both good and bad but given the chance i`ll do human to human. much easier to resolve anything and if you type one fingered much faster too! untill i stumbled accross smc my time on this darn box was limited to mail and the occasional auction...i interact much better with kids and dogs than grown-ups so i`m really quite supprised i haven`t been asked to leave.(yet) :) ......02 tod

[John Weber]

John,

Working in a tool store, it's that like a kid in a candy shop...

Anyway with all this Starrett talk, I picked up a new battery for my Digitape, it really is a cool little tool, the electronic display is especially helpful for inside measurements. With the new battery mine works like a charm, even American made ( I had assumed it was made in China - because everything weems to be made there).

So if you have a chance, you might just swap for a new one. Nice tool. Not to take up for Starrett, but they are a very traditional company, trying to compete and transform in the "new" economy, while maintaining the long standing name for quality products. The building I'm in also houses a Starrett distributer, and at the core industrail level they seem to have as strong customer support as ever. I think the consumer business is new for them and they may or may not be successful in it. Not to let them off the hook, but I might not totally wright them off.

Take Care Buddy - John

[John Miliunas]

John,

Working in a tool store, it's that like a kid in a candy shop...

Anyway with all this Starrett talk, I picked up a new battery for my Digitape, it really is a cool little tool, the electronic display is especially helpful for inside measurements. With the new battery mine works like a charm, even American made ( I had assumed it was made in China - because everything weems to be made there).

So if you have a chance, you might just swap for a new one. Nice tool. Not to take up for Starrett, but they are a very traditional company, trying to compete and transform in the "new" economy, while maintaining the long standing name for quality products. The building I'm in also houses a Starrett distributer, and at the core industrail level they seem to have as strong customer support as ever. I think the consumer business is new for them and they may or may not be successful in it. Not to let them off the hook, but I might not totally wright them off.

Take Care Buddy - John

May have more "news" on this forthcoming. Not saying for sure until and if it happens. Stay tuned. :) :cool:

[Steve Clardy]

So John.

With this new part time job, are you getting a paycheck:D

or,----------------trading fer more goodies:confused: :eek: :D :D

[John Miliunas]

So John.

With this new part time job,
or,----------------trading fer more goodies:confused: :eek: :D :D

I'm afraid it's the latter, Steve. :( If I can make it through August or so, I may be able to scrape up a few bucks to take advantage of the discount but, for now, all I can do is drool and dream. :o Getting to meet some nice WW folks, though! :) :cool:

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

I'm afraid it's the latter, Steve. :( If I can make it through August or so, I may be able to scrape up a few bucks to take advantage of the discount but, for now, all I can do is drool and dream. :o Getting to meet some nice WW folks, though! :) :cool:

Can you wear your SMC hat at work...? ;):D

[John Miliunas]

First of all, Stu, I don't do hats! Never did. Just don't care for them so no, not going to be doing the SMC hat there BUT, I have been handing out a LOT of url locations for SMC! :D

OK, to the meat of this post. I left the thread pretty much resolved to the fact that I was done dealing with any further calls, emails, expense of sending the unit back or with Starrett as a whole. My last email to them indicated just that. Well, I guess they intended on having the last word, after all.

I believe it was on Wednesday, I called the LOML from work before leaving for Job #2. She said same lady from ???? called to let me know that she checked out a new tape measure and was shipping it out to me!!! :confused: Sure enough, I got home from work today and there sat this little package from FEX. Yup, it was a brand new Digitape, complete with a battery, as well as a spare in the original package!!!! :D Just a packing slip accompanied the unit and in the description a short blurb that the unit should be given to Karen to check out before shipping! (I'm thinking Karen may be the gal who I left a message for and didn't get a call back from several days earlier. Don't know for sure...) Regardless, not even an RMA to send back the original! That's pretty decent, me thinks.

At any rate, this particular tape is slightly different than the one I originally received but, the good news is, it works exactly as advertised and as I had expected it to the first time!!! :) And, as John W. indicated, it is pretty darn slick. :)

So, in the end, it appears that Starrett may indeed be willing to retain the following they've built up over the years! Not only does that make me happy personally but, it restores my confidence in a good 'ol US company! Quite frankly, I'd have found it hard to not recommend Starrett over much of the TaiChi stuff out on the shelves at the store! Further, I can now honestly tell folks that, "Yes. Starrett will take care of you!" :) Granted, it did take a bit of perseverance but, in the end, Starrett went the extra mile to make sure I was taken care of! My hat's off to Karen and the folks at Starrett. You made my day!:) :cool:

[Bruce Page]

I love happy endings!

[Jim O'Dell]

John, sorry you got so frustrated that you were to the point of giving up. None of us need to have to go through that, sorry you were made to. But I'm glad it got resolved and you got a tool that works. I know that's all you wanted from the beginning.
Forget the hassle it took to get one that works, and just think of your daughter each time you use it!!! Jim.

[Mike Henderson]

In the January 30th issue of Business Week, page 94, there's a story titled "Would Your Recommend Us?". What it says is that there's a correlation between revenue growth and positive response to that question.

Quality products and customer service would seem to be one of the paths to success for a company.

I'm happy to hear that Starrett finally decided to step up and address the problem you had, John.

Mike

[Ron Jones near Indy]

Glad to hear that Starrett made you happy! I have several of their metal working tools and am very satisfied. I was shocked to hear that they were ignoring your complaints. Seems like they may have their own way of handling complaints.

[Jay T. Marlin]

Further, I can now honestly tell folks that, "Yes. Starrett will take care of you!" :) Granted, it did take a bit of perseverance but, in the end, Starrett went the extra mile to make sure I was taken care of!
I don't know about that. There really is no conclusive evidence as to how good Starrett's CS really is. You made a huge deal out of it by starting a giant, 3000-view thread on it. More imporantly, you sent a link to this thread to Starrett.

So the question remains.... did Starrett make things right because of this thread, or would they have done it anyway?

We'll never know.

Had it been me who received the defective product, the FIRST thing I would've done was try to exchange the product for a new one at the store where it was purchased. Had the store refused due to no receipt, I would've bought a new one and returned the old one. Case closed in 30 minutes.

[Barry O'Mahony]

At any rate, this particular tape is slightly different than the one I originally received but, the good news is, it works exactly as advertised and as I had expected it to the first time!!! :) And, as John W. indicated, it is pretty darn slick. :) So, any more details? Some of the amazon reviews indicate the digital readout didn't work if you pulled out the tape too fast. 'wondering if those were cases of a weak battery, or what. It occured to me that spending a few months sitting in a hot warehouse will do a number on a battery, and some other people could end up with the same issue you had.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

First of all, Stu, I don't do hats! Never did. Just don't care for them so no, not going to be doing the SMC hat there BUT, I have been handing out a LOT of url locations for SMC! :D

Don't do hats, you must live in a warm part of the country, or you don't spend much time outside in the weather.

I laugh my self silly (OK, that is not hard to do) all the time at the Japanese people I have come into the shop they say "Oh man it is cold out" and they are wearing a thick jacket, a scarf and gloves, but no hat. They say to me, "Aren't you cold..?" I stand there in a sweatshirt, with a wool cap on (A Pendleton no less) and say "Nope toasty warm"...

Wear a hat when it is cold out.

Nice to hear that Starret made you happy.

Cheers!

[Bill Lewis]

Stu,
John lives in Wisconson so I'd have to say no, he doesn't live in a warm part of the country. He apparently does have the power to manipulate the weather as must be the case with his current winter home construction project (See his multiple threads in the OT forum).

Is there really a direct translation for "Toasty Warm" in Japanese?

[Jeff Sudmeier]

Bill, that's Karl that is doing the house building, but he only lives about 30 mins away from John and I.

John, congrats on the new tape! Glad it got resolved for you! ;)

[tod evans]

hey john, you should send the offending tape back to them so they can figure out what went wrong with it.......02 tod

[Dan Racette]

You rabble rouser you!

Good job!

[Bill Lewis]

Bill, that's Karl that is doing the house building, but he only lives about 30 mins away from John and I. oops, it was either too early in the morning, or all you Wisconsonites look alike to me:o :)

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

oops, it was either too early in the morning, or all you Wisconsonites look alike to me:o :)

It is the lack of hats........... ;) :D

[Jeff Sudmeier]

It is the lack of hats........... ;) :D

Hey I love hats!! I just don't have an updated avatar on this site, no recent pictures. My avatar is from my wedding day :) Just ask John, I don't think he's seen me w/o a hat!

[Rick Moyer]

What was the final outcome to this? I need a good reliable straight edge, was thinking Starrett; but am unwilling to give Starrett any of my money based on this thread.

[Craig D Peltier]

I went by a fastenal company yesterday to buy a starrett square.They were closed, then I read this thread.I wont be going there monday.I too will not support them.

[Ellen Benkin]

I don't want to rub salt in the wound, but my belief is that a person should try out one of these things as soon as it is received. Don't wait days, weeks, or months. Just give it a try right away and then you know if it has to be returned or you can save it for a real use later.

I know your daughter feels bad and I hope you can convince her that she did a GOOD thing by getting you what you wanted and that it's not her fault that it doesn't work.

Starrett is an odd company run by odd people. I'd stick to their standard products -- rulers and squares, for example.

[Matt Meiser]

In post #55 in the thread, John says that Starrett sent him a replacement free of charge.

[glenn bradley]

Check the second to last post on page two of this thread for good contact info:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=52010&highlight=Starrett

[Paul Douglass]

Please don't tell me Starrett is gone south, I just order a 12" combination square and a 4" double square from Hartville two days ago!!!:confused: