Building cabinets with a built in mini fridge

[andrew whicker]

Hi,

I'm building a cabinet for a built in mini fridge. When doing this, the depth required for this fridge is 25.2" according to the website (New Air). This is quite deep, especially with an 1.5" countertop overhang. My question is whether that overhang is standard on built in fridges. Do you generally make the door face flush with the countertop? I can't see doing it any other way... make the mini fridge cabinet face flush with the face frame face and the mini fridge door will naturally be flush w/ the countertop. (The handle will stick out beyond the coutertop)

It's a lot more reasonable to have 24" depth behind the face frame.

467747

[Jamie Buxton]

Refrigerators rarely are flush with the front of the base cabinets. They stick out into the room.

[andrew whicker]

Right. I'm thinking out loud to a degree, I think I could add 3/4 nailers and have plenty of room for airflow at the back.

[Jamie Buxton]

Fridge manufacturers usually give you a spec for how much clearance they want for airflow. I wouldn’t cheat on that.

But if you don’t like the projection on the unit you’re looking at, look for a different fridge. I know that in full-size fridges there exist ones which really are flush to the cabinet fronts. They’re expensive, but they do exist. Maybe the same is true in half-size fridges.

[Jamie Buxton]

You might also consider burying the rear of the fridge into the wall. If the wall is not an exterior wall, and not load-bearing, this isn’t too difficult.

[Charles Lent]

Many refrigerators and freezers today have their condensing coil (the one that gives off the heat) made into the sides of the cabinet. They depend on several inches of clearance on each side of them to be able to release the heat removed from inside to free air flow on the sides of the cabinet. Imbedding one of these into a cabinet would be a disaster. Look for a refrigerator or freezer with a true coil in the bottom with a fan and grill below the front doors, if you must imbed one into a cabinet. Those with coils on their backs have similar problems if they don't have free air flow to their back side coils. It can't maintain cold temperatures if it can't get rid of the heat.

Charley

[Jim Becker]

Aside from the sizing thing...don't overlook ventilation requirements if you're burying one of those in a cabinet.

[andrew whicker]

It's a proper fridge for built in. Concern was the odd drawing / dimensions in the manual. It's no biggie if the door is flush with the overhang. I just wanted to think it thru and see if I was going about this correctly.

[Kevin Jenness]

I try to get my hands on appliances whenever possible before finalizing the design. Sometimes they are delivered to a jobsite and I ask the project manager to measure, inspect and if necessary photograph them Diverge from specified clearances at your peril.

Your drawing appears to allow a 1.4" space behind the fridge with the door flush with the cabinet. Whether to hold the appliance door flush or proud of the cabinets is a design decision. I usually see a flush condition. What does the client want/expect to see? If it takes an extra sheet of material to make deeper cabinets so be it.

[John K Jordan]

Do mini fridges come in standard sizes?

What concerns me about such built-ins is what happens when the appliance dies and an identical replacement can't be found. This is not usually a problem with kitchen things like dishwashers. For microwave ovens i like a larger space than needed for the current oven. This saved the day when we got a larger one.

[Dave Sabo]

I'm building a cabinet for a built in mini fridge

Technically , this isn’t a built in fridge. True built in fridges are designed to fit within a 24” depth base cabineT and use a 3/4” door attached to it. It can be a metal door from the factory or raw to accept a 3/4” cabineT door/panel. Either way the dimensions are 24” carcass depth. I don’t care what NA’s marketing wanks call their units, they are not truly built in appliances.


My question is whether that overhang is standard on built in fridges Again , true built in appliances are designed to work with the standard cabinet design and countertop overhangs. If your cabinets and handles work with your top overhang, there’s no reason a built in appliance won’t work with it either.


Many refrigerators and freezers today have their condensing coil (the one that gives off the heat) made into the sides of the cabinet. They depend on several inches of clearance on each side of them to be able to release the heat removed from inside to free air flow on the sides of the cabinet
This is what separates built in fridges from reg. ones.


Do mini fridges come in standard sizes?
Built in ones are typically 24” wide, though there are some exceptions. SubZero pioneered the drawer mini fridge and it was 27”. They’ve since gone to 24” width and there is no 27” replacement from anyone.

[Scott Winners]

I got screwed on this once and agree with John K Jordan to build a bit oversize.

[Kevin Jenness]

Technically , this isn’t a built in fridge. True built in fridges are designed to fit within a 24” depth base cabineT and use a 3/4” door attached to it. It can be a metal door from the factory or raw to accept a 3/4” cabineT door/panel. Either way the dimensions are 24” carcass depth. I don’t care what NA’s marketing wanks call their units, they are not truly built in appliances.

Again , true built in appliances are designed to work with the standard cabinet design and countertop overhangs. If your cabinets and handles work with your top overhand, there’s no reason a built in appliance won’t work with it either.


This is what separates built in fridges from reg. ones.


Built in ones are typically 24” wide, though there are some exceptions. SubZero pioneered the drawer mini fridge and it was 27”. They’ve since gone to 24” width and there is no 27” replacement from anyone.

That's an interesting take on the question. As a custom cabinetmaker I usually am given a list of appliances to fit into the cabinetry. It's up to me to make them work. I recently built a small bar with two undercounter refrigerators - don't recall the model- flush with the cabinet face. To achieve that plus the required rear clearance meant using 25"+ carcase sides. It didn't occur to me to tell the designer she speced a "not truly built in appliance". I build to fit requirements and that is what makes the appliances "built-in", whether they relate to an industry standard box size or not. Is it practical? Often not- in this case 24" deep boxes could have worked but the shop I was subbing to wanted them built as drawn due to the thin stone counter. I might have drawn the project differently or chosen different fridges, but that often is not an option- I get paid to "make it look like the picture" that someone else drew.

[Dave Sabo]

That's an interesting take on the question. As a custom cabinetmaker I usually am given a list of appliances to fit into the cabinetry. It's up to me to make them work. I recently built a small bar with two undercounter refrigerators - don't recall the model- flush with the cabinet face. To achieve that plus the required rear clearance meant using 25"+ carcase sides. It didn't occur to me to tell the designer she speced a "not truly built in appliance". I build to fit requirements and that is what makes the appliances "built-in", whether they relate to an industry standard box size or not. Is it practical? Often not- in this case 24" deep boxes could have worked but the shop I was subbing to wanted them built as drawn due to the thin stone counter. I might have drawn the project differently or chosen different fridges, but that often is not an option- I get paid to "make it look like the picture" that someone else drew.

I agree with you in principle.

Two things though.
1. Some designers don’t have a clue about how make things work, just pretty. Or trendy. They’ll draw or dream up all kinds of stuff.
2. Many a homeowner or designer has seen a picture and asked it to be copied with none of the parties having a clue about what materials or appliances were used to achieve the look. Often times they want the look copied on a small budget and or with unrealistic modifications.

I once had a designer from a worldwide kitchen firm look incredulous when we told her she could not have a subzero refrigerator toekick recessed on the side. She’d drawn it , in 3D no less.

While I applaud your get it done attitude , I don’t like that we sometimes facilitate bad habits for the industry in the name of pleasing the customer and the quick buck. Lots of businesses tell customers “that’s how it is - and it ain’t like the picture or what you asked for “

My bottom line on this issue is if you want the look of a built-in or integrated appliance - you buy a built in appliance. Too many self professed clever people think they can save a buck or find a better way with their awesome cabinet guy.

[John Lifer]

Daughter is right now finishing up her house. She has a separate area with a couple of base cabinets on the side and book shelves to the ceiling on each side of that. She has opening for mini fridge in center. I installed standard with butcher block countertop - 25" which overhangs the cabinets as normal. Fridge will most probably have good sized gaps on side and will most probably be slightly in front. No biggy. and NO there is really no standard mini fridge. Just go look online.....
But I WOULD have the customer go BUY the fridge and size for that. BTW, I've a 2001 mini and a 2005 mini that are still running. I'd expect 10 years life on these. No real issue with having a builtin like a TV wall.

[Donald G. Burns]

We ran into a problem with a mini frig we had built into an outdoor kitchen. The frig came with an overly large power plug with a ground fault breaker in it. The frig opening was made in a stone counter with the outlet behind the frig and, of course, the plug prevented the frig from fitting into the opening as deep as we wanted. The solution was cutting the plug off and using a new 90 deg plug plus adding a ground fault breaker to the circuit. So don't forget the location of the power outlet and power cord connections are important too.

[Jared Sankovich]

I just did a island that has a kitchenaid double drawer paneled fridge in the center. 24.5" may have worked I went with 25" to ensure there were no issues. Irritatingly the specs call for 24" with 3/4" panels, but that only works with overlay. If this had been a std lower I'd have been hacking into drywall to get it to fit.

Actually now that I'm thinking about the drawings provided with the fridge it shows 24" from the rear of the toe kick to the wall as the required depth. Fortunately I had it to take measurements directly.

[Kevin Jenness]

I agree with you in principle.

Two things though.
1. Some designers don’t have a clue about how make things work, just pretty. Or trendy. They’ll draw or dream up all kinds of stuff.
2. Many a homeowner or designer has seen a picture and asked it to be copied with none of the parties having a clue about what materials or appliances were used to achieve the look. Often times they want the look copied on a small budget and or with unrealistic modifications.

I once had a designer from a worldwide kitchen firm look incredulous when we told her she could not have a subzero refrigerator toekick recessed on the side. She’d drawn it , in 3D no less.

While I applaud your get it done attitude , I don’t like that we sometimes facilitate bad habits for the industry in the name of pleasing the customer and the quick buck. Lots of businesses tell customers “that’s how it is - and it ain’t like the picture or what you asked for “

My bottom line on this issue is if you want the look of a built-in or integrated appliance - you buy a built in appliance. Too many self professed clever people think they can save a buck or find a better way with their awesome cabinet guy.

Believe me, the projects I'm dealing with are not about saving money. I am at the bottom of the chain building something that has been designed and signed off on after plenty of discussion between the designer and shop and/or project manager. Oftentimes the designs are beyond impractical to the point of ridiculous, like the vanities I recently built that were spaced one inch off the end walls. Why? The designer has a vision and a client willing to pay for it. I have to accept that I am participating in building a piece of sculpture that has toilets in it- and built-in appliances. Having the gear in hand and all the specs helps make that happen as smoothly as possible.

[andrew whicker]

Good responses! Thanks much.

He bought the fridge. I have specs. Interesting to note the actual built in vs marketed built in. I told him it won't have a toe kick (this fridge has a flush grill). I think that's okay in this instance. It's in the corner where you wouldn't be hanging out too often. BTW, to get the "proper" fridge you're talking about the price doubles, so I'm not necessarily against the customer on this one. (from what I saw online). Everyone has a budget. I'm agnostic on that issue. I'm still building my customer base and skill sets. Hopefully every job gets me closer to only doing the really nice stuff (furniture and cabinets).

What do you guys do above the fridge on 42" countertops? I am going to put in a short drawer (and the fridge on the floor). Do you install it on top of the cabinet bottom (giving it a toe kick)? I think that might be a bit goofy looking.

I'm also getting a countertop wrapped with stainless steel and when I went to cut my 3/4 bb sheet last night I realized it had a huge bow in it across the width (3/8 on one side, 1/2 on the other!) so now for another drive down to slc.

I'm going to see if the sheet metal vendor can use mdf instead to ensure flatness.

[Rick Potter]

For future reference.

One other problem with refers is that some doors open flush to the refer cabinet, and some don't. I found out the hard way that when you inset a refer completely, the door won't clear the cabinet if it is the wrong type.