Mcgiver heavy plumbing repair

[Warren Lake]

In my 61 bungalow the main pipe goes out to the septic has a hole near the bottom. Its copper all of this and heavy then goes into a massive pipe through the wall. Friend said the pipe will be sealed with Rope. Its not it looks to be lead. I cant this type of plumbing stuff at Box stores and same friend said for now just use Epoxy and repair it temp. I got JB weld and some fiberglass around here and did a repair. The JB weld was in a dual tube and it was the worst one ive ever used, push it nothing comes out one side, use it again and tons out one side little out the other, pop sound air comes out and and.

I had tried to find two tubes stuff as I trust myself to mix, most dual things ive used worked pretty well, Looked for Epoxy could not find it this stuff did not say epoxy on the package.

The JB never cured properly its rubbery in some spots. I see a slow leak starting so will rip it off clean and start again.

Should I not be able to get epoxy and maybe some filler in it I have that talc and glass ball stuff and use my fiberglass matt not the woven stuff? Other things the focus now. I figure the copper you clean it really well with alcohol or lac reducer and as long as the epoxy sets should get a good repair for some time. the JB stayed like Rubber in part of this hole size is about 1/2" x 1/2" once I pushed and mangled it larger to get to thick material.

[Bruce Wrenn]

Why not use a Sawzall, cut out the section of damaged pipe and replace it with PVC. You could use "NoHub bands, or a Fenner coupling to connect the pipes together. The "NoHub" bands are my first choice. Cut your repair piece about 1/4" shorter than the distance between the pipe ends. Take couplings, loosen bands and slip on repair piece. Slide bands back from ends. Turn open end of NoHub bands back onto repair piece. Similar to turning a sock inside out. Slide repair piece into place, turn coupling so they engage old pipe. Slip bands into place and tighten. Go have a "cold one" as you deserve it. Call a plumber, and that most likely what they will do

[Warren Lake]

its been thought about but more work needs to be done above. Just don't want more stuff at the moment too many directions already Prefer a half hour temp repair to hours of work. I do most of my own work, roof rebuilds and all. I can hire when my time frees up re do it all Ive need be. Ill put the copper on Ebay and retire.

I likely have those rubber things with the bands in stock of a whole gaggle of stuff in Rubbermaids so just need to go deep sea driving. for now will epoxy and fiberglass stick to copper or is there something else going on. When I did some old fiberglass work stuff stuck to everything.

[Mark Hennebury]

Polyester resin and hardener with fibre glass. Canadian tire automotive department.


In my 61 bungalow the main pipe goes out to the septic has a hole near the bottom. Its copper all of this and heavy then goes into a massive pipe through the wall. Friend said the pipe will be sealed with Rope. Its not it looks to be lead. I cant this type of plumbing stuff at Box stores and same friend said for now just use Epoxy and repair it temp. I got JB weld and some fiberglass around here and did a repair. The JB weld was in a dual tube and it was the worst one ive ever used, push it nothing comes out one side, use it again and tons out one side little out the other, pop sound air comes out and and.

I had tried to find two tubes stuff as I trust myself to mix, most dual things ive used worked pretty well, Looked for Epoxy could not find it this stuff did not say epoxy on the package.

The JB never cured properly its rubbery in some spots. I see a slow leak starting so will rip it off clean and start again.

Should I not be able to get epoxy and maybe some filler in it I have that talc and glass ball stuff and use my fiberglass matt not the woven stuff? Other things the focus now. I figure the copper you clean it really well with alcohol or lac reducer and as long as the epoxy sets should get a good repair for some time. the JB stayed like Rubber in part of this hole size is about 1/2" x 1/2" once I pushed and mangled it larger to get to thick material.

[Warren Lake]

I have the fiberglass matt from car days and unopened west system epoxy that should be okay if its not too old. Do you see any filler stuff to thicken epoxy or poly? I used to have a high quality boat type epoxy but its used up now. Il bring the west stuff in now take a peek

thanks

[Doug Garson]

Polyester resin and hardener with fibre glass. Canadian tire automotive department.
Just curious, why polyester resin rather than epoxy resin? Oh, and I don't think the OP has a Canadian Tire Store nearby but any store that carries marine or autobody supplies or general hardware should have what he needs. I think the JB Weld should have worked, I'm guessing he got a bad package, maybe old stock?
I see he has West System epoxy, that should work.

[Mark Hennebury]

Warren is in Ontario, got to be few Canadian tire stores within a stones throw of him.
Easy to get fresh polyester resin and hardener and mat in small amounts there. And it will set up no problem. and the resin is thin enough to soak in well. I have some real old two part epoxy and it is really thick, I wouldn't use it for that fix.


Just curious, why polyester resin rather than epoxy resin? Oh, and I don't think the OP has a Canadian Tire Store nearby but any store that carries marine or autobody supplies or general hardware should have what he needs. I think the JB Weld should have worked, I'm guessing he got a bad package, maybe old stock?
I see he has West System epoxy, that should work.

[Mark Hennebury]

If its copper maybe you could solder it.

[Warren Lake]

have the mat and lots you are thinking epoxy is too thick for this, I guess the stuff I used the boat stuff was thicker than polyester.

[Doug Garson]

Warren is in Ontario, got to be few Canadian tire stores within a stones throw of him.
Easy to get fresh polyester resin and hardener and mat in small amounts there. And it will set up no problem. and the resin is thin enough to soak in well. I have some real old two part epoxy and it is really thick, I wouldn't use it for that fix.
Sorry. I assumed Warren was in the US. I've used both polyester and epoxy resins to soak in glass cloth (haven't used mat), the West System epoxy he says he has should work fine.

[Warren Lake]

we had a place in toronto called smithcraft Old british guy, great prices, great accent, not sure what area. When you picked up he would talk and tell you all kinds of stuff, he really wanted to help people, old school service and loved what he did

[Jack Frederick]

You may be successful in your epoxy repair, but looking down the road, I’m thinking that corrosion is downstream but fairly close to a fitting. Yes/no? The bottom of the pipe is thinning out and you will likely have to replace it. You may get lucky, but taht is not my experience with copper that has seen its day. I would suggest when you do the repair that you go back upstream until you find decent thickness of pipe. Use Mission couplings. They make them to go from all types of pipes, so you will get one side sized for the OD of the copper and the other for sch 40 PVC/ABS. they have a solid SS band and good worm gear straps. If I’m not reading this correctly a pic might help. good luck with it.

[Bill Dufour]

Cast iron pipe with bell ends was connected by packing joint with Oakem. That is manila rope strands. Pounded in with blunt chisels until it was basically water tight. Some times lead wool was used. If the pipe was vertical then molten lead was poured on top for the final seal. Very similar to soldering. If it was horizontal an asbestos rope was clamped around it with the end meeting at the top of the bell. Then lead would be poured into the gap between rope and pipe.
Bill D

[Warren Lake]

that sounds exactly right my Carpainter friend had said rope. When I used a wire wheel then saw what looked like Lead. Im not up for an adventure right now. so need quick and easy month or two then can get it done right. Out of curiosity do people run plastic to this then seal that in some way? silicon or some other type sealer?

[lowell holmes]

I would take scrap joints and experiment , you will know quickly how you will do it.

[Bob Vavricka]

For a quick less messy "temporary fix" I would find some heavy rubber sheet and wrap around the pipe and use hose clamps to hold it in place. What is the diameter of this pipe and how large of a hole are you patching?

[Warren Lake]

I will strip it clean when i can and then it will show or I likely have a photo before my crash and burn repair thanks

[Warren Lake]

wont let me post on my post so try again

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[Mel Fulks]

[QUOTE=Warren Lake;3153123]wont let me post on my post so try again
The computer thinks that green thing is an artillery shell.]

[Jack Frederick]

You can get a ferrule, a bead on the end of a pvc fitting Taht will fit into the bell end of the cast fitting. You will need either brown oakum or the white. Wrap it and make a couple blunt yarning “iron” out of some wood if you don’t have the original irons. Pack it tight. Than as Bill said, you likely don’t have a lead pot so get some lead wool and pack it into the joint. You will notice a negative bead on the hub of the CI fitting. Pack that lead so it can bite into the bead. The waste water will saturate the oakum, causing it to swell and taht is what makes the joint.

[Tom M King]

I would use a slide-hammer, with a hook, and pull the parts pushed in back out into place, as good as you can. If you can get the parts fairly close together, it would be fairly easy, and plenty strong enough, to solder some thinner copper to the outside of it. That would be a permanent repair, until something else hits it.

[Warren Lake]

I dont see any repair that takes some time now happening. Jack you know this stuff inside and out and Tom know that makes sense. If fiberglass and epoxy stick then that is the ticket for now even for a few months then a better repair. In time hook up to sewers. I get the rubber repair as well and maybe one of the large fittings could be sliced cut turned to the back and two clamps then maybe it would still leak a bit. Not looking at it tonight but will tomorrow. Jack if you were not 3000 miles away id try and hire you. Drove to california once. Then up the coast san fran then back then vegas then grand canyon spent three weeks or so in LA. It was excellent.

[Doug Garson]

Since it looks like you have done a good job of cleaning it and it's a drain so no no pressure a epoxy and glass repair should last a long time or at least until you do whatever you did to damage it.

[Warren Lake]

doug the pipe rusted out on its own, I thought copper didnt rust? guess the stuff going through was enough that over time of 60 years it is now took its toll the hole there was a bit smaller of course but that is irrelevant I think, toms idea to pull some back if I can is likely smart as its more support for whatever goes on. I dont have the time to do it right, too many directions and one one major thing is done taking big time for my parents then ill get my time back. So for now it has to be quick and easy

I would have been fine but the Jb Weld I used from CTC failed. The two mix one tube thing was small and did not blend well the stuff never hardened rock hard and felt rubbery even a month later., weather some water wicked in or I dont know I dried it all with a heat gun and thought it was fine. Im not sure what best to clean it with once all stripped again. maybe Ik should have also scratc sanded it with 80 grit or coasere to help get more tooth. Ill try again after I do an epoxy test with this stuff. The marine grade stuff worked great. I used on on facia stuff butted together with that and lamelloes and it worked excellent even ten years later hard to find the joints of the mostly towards 16 foot long boards.

Dan clearly knows what this is exactly he had way more info than the carpenter who said its rope and that is it. Once the wire wheel hit it all it was clear there was led there, me not knowing there was rope below that but makes total sense what Dan said. Never fails there are 10 guys with different back grounds.

I talked to a battery place today top brand time for a new one one car. They said I think the 78 frame will fit and asked me. I said that is why I called you. So now up to me tell them if I can up the size as I usually do to the frame size i used in the truck 800 CCA but maybe too large. Likely some battery expert guys here or I could maybe call Elon, or maybe not. Will take the one out of the truck and try it first. All good. Asked the expert twice if 78 series frames only come with side and top mount or you can get side mount only both times not answered.

Thanks every one for taking the time.

[Bill Dufour]

My dad used to have a roll of pipe wrap tape from the gas company. It is what is used to wrap buried gas pipes. Heavy rubber tape about 2" wide, sticky on one side, had to peel off wax paper then wrap it tight and overlap it like electrical tape.
Bill D

[Warren Lake]

thats an interesting idea I likely have Grace ice and water shield left from past roof rebuild. that stuff at least when warm was so sticky it was hard to work with other brands like the Certainteed easier to work with. they aslo had a small facia wrap one that was narrow. If it was a rubber repair and that went on before say the heavy rubber with a slice in the back and the band clmpa that woud take it up a level but also that area being recessed stuff woud collect in the recessed area I could cut a strip to wide wrap it number of times and come up proud of the raised wider pipe then wrap that ice and water then put the rubber on with the bands. Will entertain that as well. Sometimes materials from another trade solve things, seen that enough and why i want to know about many things.

[Bill Dufour]

I would put good electrical tape over the hole to seal it for a few days. get everything nice and dry so the next step will stick. wrap it in fibreglass drywall tape so the hole is bridged over. Maybe wrap some metal wire around the tape to hold it down. Then saturate the tape with roofing tar or liquid rubber sealing compound as sold on tv.
I do not think a propane torch will have enough heat to solder that big a mass. You would need a real blow torch(no longer made) or large weed burner type torch. I doubt if you own a lead melting pot and a ladle. These all pose a good risk of burning your house down that night after you put out any little smoldering spots.
Bill D

[Warren Lake]

okay I will digest that as well but likely that would void the next step of doing it right as cleaning that up would be a nightmare. Okay if third step which would be hooking up to sewers. Lot of homes flooded in this town where sewers backed up. Us old folks on septics were not affected. I think some homes on the main street have flooded more than once.

Yes I dont have any heat stuff for that I knew that already and that and knowing I dont have time now took out any want to try and learn how this is all done right. I need to think about all that, the stuff on there now looks like its fine with coming off at least the bit I scraped at with a putty knife. If i go back to the wire wheel again ill use something to scratch it as the wire wheel just leaves it too polished and smooth

[Jason Roehl]

For a pipe repair, the name I always hear (and have used myself both at work and residentially) is Fernco. It’s a rubber wrap surrounded by a stainless clamp. Larger ones are rigid and come in two pieces with bolts and nuts to clamp it over the rubber.

[Warren Lake]

I have some of those rubber things in my kit of parts but dont see adapting them Carpenter called back said he was thinking about it and copper over like tom. I told him I used Geocell on my eves and that stuff sealed like crazy and can even be put on when its wet

Dan if you are still lurking how would you go about bringing plastic to this? If i cut the copper above all away is there some level there that the ABS stuff fits into this. Carpenter thinks he has a torch that will do the bottom as well. I dont know what he has. There are no big box fittings that say replace the part with the rope and led but there must be some level there where abs can tap into it.

thanks

[Kev Williams]

My dad used to have a roll of pipe wrap tape from the gas company. It is what is used to wrap buried gas pipes. Heavy rubber tape about 2" wide, sticky on one side, had to peel off wax paper then wrap it tight and overlap it like electrical tape.
Bill D
When I saw Warren's pic, gas pipe repair 'tape' came to my mind too...

What about a rubber sewer pipe connector with clamps (as suggested above)-- and pick up a tube of 3M 5200 Marine sealant--- split the connector down the middle, goop everything with the 5200 and cinch up the clamps...

In fact, every boater I know says to DO NOT USE 5200 if you ever expect to remove it! You could probably just goop some of it around that hole and be done :)

[Warren Lake]

talking to a friend about other stuff I sent him the photo. He is a tech guy and we talked and this and that and then came back to the rubber thing again, I said what about cut off right off at the copper where the hole is then slip the rubber things one over and a piece of 3" abs in then into a 3" abs 22.5 degree. That would match what is there and id removed all the copper above. Its just temp anyway and likely that would be faster than any other repair and easier. I said do you think the rubber will seal well enough on that rough surface and he said yes. We talked about some sort of sealer as well. I think if sizes match up that would be easiest.

[Mel Fulks]

Warren,sounds like you’re talking about a Fernco fix. They have a good reputation among the plumbers around here.

[George Yetka]

That hole doesnt look natural.

That isnt the prettiest spot. But a fernco coupling as others have mentioned may work. You can get a product like this
https://www.jdindustrialsupply.com/quikcooper.html

Mix it up and form around the hole then take a fernco sliced open wrap it around the joint and tighten.

If you can solder you can either chip out the lead and oakum and redo the whole thing using a prduct called plastiseal on top of oakum. Or you can gingerly heat up the copper and pull it out of the copper fitting and replace piece with a hole in it.

[Warren Lake]

I cut it apart in a few stages last night. This was my last idea. After doing this I went on you tube and bounced around till I found a guy who was changing out a clean out, different than my set up but if the dimensions are same then I want to get that. Maybe someone above talked about the ferncos with the stainelss straps each end that is what I had., Maybe someone above said donout and I thought it was the same. WHat the You tube guy did was to drill all the led wiht a quarter inch drill, then pry it and break it apart. Then he pulled out all the rope stuff and put in a thing called a Fernco donout then he put his clean out into that and the middle part unscrewed. I think that that same donout is what I really need to do this property that is remove the heavy bottom part that had the DWW 3 stamp in it. Had emailed a place yesterday that did not respond but im thinking that is the part i need I wonder if this is all standard size stuff and id want to know that before I cut what I did here apart.

Will try and look up the part and get a number. I wonder if this part is the same for the clean out there and if so that should be replaced as well.

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[Bill Dufour]

DWW probably reads DWV. for drain waste vent. I imagine the "#3" means it is 3" cast iron pipe. When I had to do this in a trench to add a cleanout I used a wire brush on a angle grinder to get a smooth surface. Then I brushed on a heavy coat of primer paint to fill little rust pits. Just in case.
Bill D

PS it was. hard to slip over one end so I put a cherne plug inside the fernco at that end and inflated it. Let it sit for 30 minutes then quickly deflated and installed it before it shrunk back down. Worked nice and easy.

[Doug Garson]

Looks like you went from Mcgiver to Master Plumber. Well done

[Warren Lake]

Ive just never seen this before so went with the repair idea. What I did there is not right but three carpenters said it will work fine. ILl still do the donout thing and someone above I think mentioned it and I was just thinking the fernco stainless.

After I did that last night then went on the fish net took several clics of the ones on the side to find a guy replacing a clean out so the front of this if this will take a Fernco he had it apart and as soon as I saw it I thought yeah that is now its done. Im slow first time doing things but I get there., Rebuilt two roofs, old guy said you are taking too long, only out of care. I finished one in December lucky for global warming that year 11 or 12 years ago.

[Warren Lake]

did a light clean out, then got the top fitting out, then figured better do the same to the bottom same time hesitant more work,. In the process broke through the top of the clean out stem and its just as well I started that second adventure. Broke enough drill bits and the 7" ones were good to have more reach around that long stem part on the clean out. WIll clean it today maybe put Phosphoric acid on it first once cleaned well then paint or primer and paint.

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[Bruce Wrenn]

Original post said "copper," while pictures are of cast iron.

[Warren Lake]

whole home is copper.

Big pipe going through the wall is cast Fittings in that case were copper and that rope stuff hammered in and a tons of lead on top.