Baltic birch

[Tom Krueger]

Not sure if this is the right place to post this but-
for those that have used Baltic birch ply, is it worth the extra cost?
2- if so where do you get full 5’x5’ sheets with reasonable shipping?
TIA

[Frank Pratt]

The answer to both questions is that it depends. Where you live will affect availability & shipping costs, as will the quantity you order. I use BB almost exclusively for plywood projects because of its strength, lack of voids and consistent quality. It is not immune to slight cupping, particularly in the thinner sizes, but is still way better than conventional plywood.

I have a couple of suppliers nearby that carry it, so shipping isn't an issue. For me it is definitely worth the extra cost. If I had to order it shipped to me I don't think it would be. Shipping a few sheets at a time would be very expensive I suspect.

[Jim Becker]

I agree with Frank. That said, "real" BB plywood is remarkably consistent and a joy to use.

As to buying it...if you need it shipped, start talking with local "real" sheet goods suppliers. Many will deliver for free or a small fee for a minimum order value. I use Industrial Plywood out of Reading PA. They deliver twice a week to my area and will do so for free with a $300 minimum order. I can also (sometimes) get "real" BB plywood from one local supplier that is an independent builder's supply/home center that caters heavily to contractors and the trades. They do not always have it, however.

I will also refer you to an existing current thread right here in GW&PT where I moved your thread:

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?294449-Baltic-birch-plywood&p=3152723#post3152723

[glenn bradley]

I don't recall reading any posts about people who were unhappy they had spent a little more and gone with a BB ply or like product. I have shop fixtures that have been in service nearly 20 years made from BB ply and they have held up and still look great . . . assuming you like that look.

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A good lumber yard will have shop-grade and cabinet-grade plywoods. BB ply is not much more than these are around here. The thick outer veneers and void free inner layers are nice after working with general softwood plywoods.

[derek labian]

I've been buying Russian Baltic Birch 3/4" and I believe the quality is worth the extra cost. I believe its 9 ply, almost free of voice, no overlap etc. Very sturdy stuff. I wouldn't use it for a throwaway project.

I was paying $55 for 5x5 sheets. Today, its $92.. ouch. I'm still going to buy it though.

I purchase plywood from my local hardwood dealers, they seem to have the best quality wood options at the best price. Search your local area for hardwood dealers.

[Robert Engel]

I've never in my life bought a sheet of 5x5 ply.

I don't know where it comes from, but the grade A birch ply I get from my supplier as always been excellent stuff.

So my advice is, if you can get good enough ply in 4x8 sheets, why do you need the "good" stuff?

Then again, maybe I'm missing something....

[Ole Anderson]

If you want to work with some nice plywood, pick up a sheet of MDO signboard ply. Exterior grade, free of voids and a resin fiber overlay designed for paint.

[Frank Pratt]

If you want to work with some nice plywood, pick up a sheet of MDO signboard ply. Exterior grade, free of voids and a resin fiber overlay designed for paint.

MDO is very nice stuff and is about the only plywood I use for exterior stuff, but BB has advantages over it. The surface of MDO is not as flat as BB. In raking light some grain pattern & footballs will show through the overlay. And it doesn't cut as nicely as BB. It splinters & tears a little worse. I consider them different materials for different uses.

[Frank Pratt]

I've never in my life bought a sheet of 5x5 ply.

I don't know where it comes from, but the grade A birch ply I get from my supplier as always been excellent stuff.

So my advice is, if you can get good enough ply in 4x8 sheets, why do you need the "good" stuff?

Then again, maybe I'm missing something....

You are missing something. BB is quite unlike standard birch plywood. Try it out & you'll see whether the difference in cost is worth it to you. The first time I used it was a bit of a revelation & I was instantly converted.

[andrew whicker]

Is there a diff in quality btwn 4x8 and 5x5? It's been a while since I bought a 5x5 sheet, but I don't remember there being a difference?

5x5 is an odd size to handle (understatement). Definitely be careful loading it in your standard size pickup bed or you may get it stuck between the wheel well and the bed overhang. Ha!

[Mel Fulks]

MDO has different grades . I’ve used it several times,and like it. Don’t remember what grade I was using ,but it didn’t show any footballs.
I don’t buy it now, glue “cotton duck” (light canvas) on plywood with Titebond 2. Old tried and true stuff going back to late 19th century
porch treatments. If you don’t want to see texture pattern of the cloth you can prime and spackle. Put two glue ups face to face with plastic
between them for ease and speed.

[Bryan Hall]

I pay $150-$180 a sheet for 4x8 BB or appleply where I live. I pay $80-$90 a sheet for big box store ply. I would have to be pretty desperate to buy the big box stuff. The nicer ply is worth every penny IMO. It doesn't matter if it's a project for myself, or for my clients, I pretty much only use nice ply now.

[Jim Becker]

Is there a diff in quality btwn 4x8 and 5x5? It's been a while since I bought a 5x5 sheet, but I don't remember there being a difference?

5x5 is an odd size to handle (understatement). Definitely be careful loading it in your standard size pickup bed or you may get it stuck between the wheel well and the bed overhang. Ha!

It would depend upon whether or not the 4x8 is actually BB or equivalent or not. What I've found is that one must be very careful in that there is a lot of "multiply" 4x8 plywood out there on the market that's not even close to the same quality is real BB plywood including with very thin outer veneers and more internal voids. I mistakenly bought a sheet of that stuff a few years ago. It was horrible. But there's also good, brand name multiply available, too, such as the ApplePly that folks have been mentioning.

[Edwin Santos]

Is there a diff in quality btwn 4x8 and 5x5? It's been a while since I bought a 5x5 sheet, but I don't remember there being a difference?

5x5 is an odd size to handle (understatement). Definitely be careful loading it in your standard size pickup bed or you may get it stuck between the wheel well and the bed overhang. Ha!

IME the simple answer is no they are not the same. The 5x5 stuff is the true Baltic Birch that comes from well, Baltic countries. It will usually have a green stamp somewhere on it, and probably a purple stamp in Cyrillic (Russian) letters. The 5x5 size came about by the shipping containers they use to transport it, and the countries of origin are metric. Larger suppliers stock it in unfinished and clear coat prefinished, which is very good stuff too.

The 4x8 "Baltic Birch" is a domestic answer to the real stuff. It came about because North American users were accustomed to the 4x8 sheet size. If you look at the cross section, you'll see differences in the composition i.e. the wood species and adhesive. The domestic 4x8 sheet product isn't bad per se, but IMO it's not as good as the real BB.
Both are void free. I use the 4x8 sometimes depending on whether the size will result in less waste for the project.

Long answer for a simple question

[Jim Becker]

Edwin, I could be "mis-remembering", but I believe that in past discussion, one or more SMC members who live "over there" indicated that they can source BB in the equivalent of 4x8 sheets in their geography when it's required. I just think that not much is imported in that size; hence the North American products that try to emulate it; sometimes successful enough like ApplePly and sometimes miserably.

[Tom Krueger]

Thanks for all the help guys!
I have sent an email to a “local” woodworking store (about an hour away). He replied saying he has real bb plywood in 5x5 sheets for 75$. He also has 1/2 sheets.
Also found out local big box has 4x8 for 150$, with free shipping to store.
Leaning toward driving an hour. Price didn’t really seem way ot of line, considering the last plywood I got from him was a sheet of qswo (1/4”) for 98$.
Making a good table saw sled, so I want good ply. (Woodsmith ultimate crosscut sled)

[Tom Krueger]

Jim, pretty sure I used that same crappy ply you’re talking about. I think it was the boss that got some for a project we needed to get out. At first I thought, wow, look at all those plies, this is some nice ply. That feeling lasted until the first cut! I swear, the face veneer can’t be much more than .005”!

[Alex Kapl]

Anyone know of a source of BB in northern NJ? I found one place but it hasn't been in stock for a while. Keep calling weekly but so far no luck

[Jim Becker]

Jim, pretty sure I used that same crappy ply you’re talking about. I think it was the boss that got some for a project we needed to get out. At first I thought, wow, look at all those plies, this is some nice ply. That feeling lasted until the first cut! I swear, the face veneer can’t be much more than .005”!
Yea...that sounds like a similar product. I should have known better just based on the price. LOL You will not regret using the BB for your shop fixtures as well as for many other things. And I never throw out the scraps, even small ones, of that stuff, either. If I"m culling shorts, etc., the BB stays no matter what.

[Michael Drew]

For what it's worth, the store I buy all my hardwood and sheet goods sells both sizes. 5X5 and 4X8 sheets. They are similar, but not the same. Both are very nice to work with, same number of ply's (13 for 3/4 stuff), but they are not from the same manufacture. The 5X5 stuff is what they call their "real" Baltic Birch. The 4X8 stuff is what they refer to as "Russian" Birch. The Russian stuff has a thinner outer ply and it does take much sanding to work through it. Where as the Baltic will take more sanding and just seems to be a bit higher grade ply. I also find these odd looking plugs in the outer layer of the Russian stuff that the factory uses to fill out and make the outer layer flush. They take paint fine and you can't see them after paint, but if you use stain, they pop and become very visible. I am generally using this stuff for shop fixtures and furniture so appearance doesn't matter too much.

[Edwin Santos]

For what it's worth, the store I buy all my hardwood and sheet goods sells both sizes. 5X5 and 4X8 sheets. They are similar, but not the same. Both are very nice to work with, same number of ply's (13 for 3/4 stuff), but they are not from the same manufacture. The 5X5 stuff is what they call their "real" Baltic Birch. The 4X8 stuff is what they refer to as "Russian" Birch. The Russian stuff has a thinner outer ply and it does take much sanding to work through it. Where as the Baltic will take more sanding and just seems to be a bit higher grade ply. I also find these odd looking plugs in the outer layer of the Russian stuff that the factory uses to fill out and make the outer layer flush. They take paint fine and you can't see them after paint, but if you use stain, they pop and become very visible. I am generally using this stuff for shop fixtures and furniture so appearance doesn't matter too much.

Do you notice a darker line in between the plies in the 4x8 product as compared to the 5x5 when you look at it in cross section?

[Jon Endres]

I used to buy 4x8 and 5x5 sheets from a supplier in Maine (Maine Coast Lumber) which was bought by another outfit called Downes and Reader. MCL delivered right to my door in VT, they had a set shipping schedule for each area of New England. This was 15+ years ago though. Now, I travel 25 minutes north to get 5x5 sheets or 2-1/2 hours north to buy either 4x8 or 5x5. Personally I don't notice a difference in quality. I bought 4x8 sheets to build all of the drawers in my kitchen and bathroom vanities for my house. I definitely like BB to build drawers and shop jigs, and anything else that needs to be relatively durable. I find that sanding and slightly rounding edges will make it pretty damage-resistant. Right now, $35 a sheet for 1/2" BB. I keep a couple sheets in inventory.

[andrew whicker]

Here's a photo of my BB bought at MacBeath in SLC, UT. 4x8 sheets. The veneer doesn't look too thin to me. Again, I'm sure I have 5x5 scraps floating around here somewhere, but I wouldn't know which are which anymore.



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[Jim Becker]

That does look like good material, Andrew!

[mark mcfarlane]

$56.09 for 1/2" 5x5 BB in Houston 2 weeks ago at Clarks Hardwood. Edge routing this stuff is more like working with solid stock than it is any other plywood, except it is more stable than solid stock. Great for building drawers.

Huge fan of real BB plywood here just for the little extra joy it brings me when building something.

I confess I do use cabinet grade birch plywood for big cabinet projects but it's just not the same as working with BB.

[andy bessette]

Another fan of Baltic Birch plywood. But it is heavy!