Seeking Recommendation for a High-Quality Mini Laser Engraver

[Scott Memmer]

Boy, I haven't been here in months. I hope you're all doing well.

I have an Epilog 30-watt Zing Laser that I just love. However, I've begun to realize that I'm going to eventually need a second laser unit in my shop. This machine will be strictly for engraving.

My shop is tiny, so bench space is at a premium. Ideally, this unit would at most have a bed of no more than 12"x 12", tops. Smaller is probably even better.

I prefer to buy American, if possible. I also prefer companies like Epilog that have strong, U.S.-based phone support. I'm a patient buyer, so I typically decide on the machine I want, then search high and low till I find a clean used one in my local area (Los Angeles).

Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

All the Best,
Scott

[Kev Williams]

If you want a USA made fast C02 machine, Epilog or Universal (I think?) is about it--

--Trotec = Austria
--Gravograph = France
--GCC/Pinnacle = Taiwan

Kern and Keyence I believe are USA made, but they build 'specialty' machines, $$$$$$--

And I don't think any of the above companies- makers of robust, fast, reliable machines- make as small a machine as you're talking. A C02 galvo laser may work for your needs-? But the few reviews I've heard about them haven't been 'rave'...

My 2 smallest machines have 18x12" beds, my LS-100 measures 30" long x 26" deep, for what it does the space it eats is a bargain ;)

[Scott Memmer]

If you want a USA made fast C02 machine, Epilog or Universal (I think?) is about it--

--Trotec = Austria
--Gravograph = France
--GCC/Pinnacle = Taiwan

Kern and Keyence I believe are USA made, but they build 'specialty' machines, $$$$$$--

And I don't think any of the above companies- makers of robust, fast, reliable machines- make as small a machine as you're talking. A C02 galvo laser may work for your needs-? But the few reviews I've heard about them haven't been 'rave'...

My 2 smallest machines have 18x12" beds, my LS-100 measures 30" long x 26" deep, for what it does the space it eats is a bargain ;)

Kev, great information. Thanks so much. Much as I'd love another Epilog, I simply don't have the space for that.

Are there Asian-made machines out there that might fit my needs? In addition to small size, I don't need a really powerful machine.

My apologies for my ignorance of the market. I've always got my nose to the grindstone.

Take Care,
Scott

[John Lifer]

I don't think there is much at all out there that is less than 12x18. Even a k40 is that size or a bit larger. Yeah galvo would be slightly smaller footprint, maybe, but the base of my two fibers are 15"x22 deep and I don't think the co2 galvos are smaller.

[Mike Null]

You may be able to find some Gravograph 12" x 18" which were made by Universal.

The P. Graham Dunn turnkey operations included them in all of their packages which I imagine numbers in the 100's.

[Kev Williams]

You may be able to find some Gravograph 12" x 18" which were made by Universal.

This is one of them :)
467514
1997 New Hermes 25w "Optima" made by Universal. This was my rep's demonstrator, it's been more places than most people ;)
He used the crap out of, replaced the tube with a rebuilt in '99, I bought it in 2001.
This was my very first laser. My rep came across a bargain on another rebuilt tube in 2005, since it was cheap I bought and installed it.
I ran it hard for years, sold it to my BIL, He ran it 6-8 hours every day for several more years. Still has it, still works like new. 2 years ago we replaced the power supply, a $60 unit off Amazon worked great. That and a couple of belts and one set of rail roller bearings is the extent of the maintenance & repairs for the past 20 years. Pretty bulletproof :)

This is my LS100, same 18x12 table size, this was also one of my rep's demo's...
467515
It's a 35w machine, got a new Coherent tube that tested at 47watts when I got it, about 3 years ago, maybe 4? Anyway, it hasn't lost a step either...

They're essentially the same 'footprint' size within a few inches either way, and like John says, this is about as small as 'good' lasers get...

[Scott Memmer]

Kev, thanks so much. Am I understanding that these machines might be for sale? If so, could you PM me for details? Or you can post right in the thread, if you prefer.

It's more than I need, and probably more than I can afford, but I'm always keeping my ear to the ground.

Thanks Very Much,
Scott

[Kev Williams]

I'm afraid they're still making money, so not for sale :)

[Keith Outten]

Scott, you might be surprised that it is possible for you to purchase a small Trotec laser and sell your Epilog and still increase your production. This happened to me awhile back, we had a Xenetech laser at CNU and because of a huge increase in our workload needed a second laser engraver so we purchased a Trotec Speedy 300. The Trotec was so fast we stopped using the Xenetech laser even with triple our normal workload.

Engraving 6" by 8" Corian Door Signs
Xenetech 60 watt - Engraving door signs took 12 minutes each.
Trotech 75 watt at 150 IPS - Engraving door signs took 5 minutes each.
My 80 watt Trotech at 150 IPS - 4 minutes per door sign.
I also tried a one hundred watt laser from China early on and it took 24 minutes per door sign.

Just something for you to consider, plus the sale of your Epilog will help purchasing a new Trotec.

[Ross Moshinsky]

Chinese CO2 Galvo laser

[Hilton Lister]

Chinese CO2 Galvo laser
GCC Laserpro Venus II. 300x210mm work area. RF Tube

[Scott Memmer]

I'm afraid they're still making money, so not for sale :)

More power to you, Kev. Figured that.

Bravo!
Scott

[Scott Memmer]

Scott, you might be surprised that it is possible for you to purchase a small Trotec laser and sell your Epilog and still increase your production. This happened to me awhile back, we had a Xenetech laser at CNU and because of a huge increase in our workload needed a second laser engraver so we purchased a Trotec Speedy 300. The Trotec was so fast we stopped using the Xenetech laser even with triple our normal workload.

Engraving 6" by 8" Corian Door Signs
Xenetech 60 watt - Engraving door signs took 12 minutes each.
Trotech 75 watt at 150 IPS - Engraving door signs took 5 minutes each.
My 80 watt Trotech at 150 IPS - 4 minutes per door sign.
I also tried a one hundred watt laser from China early on and it took 24 minutes per door sign.

Just something for you to consider, plus the sale of your Epilog will help purchasing a new Trotec.

Ken, interesting thought. I'm open to all angles. Okay if I PM you here, or would you prefer I just post that discussion in the board here? I don't want to hijack my own thread or get too far off-topic. Love this forum. Appreciate your guidancd on this.

Thanks Much,
Scott

[Keith Outten]

PM or post its all good.
I"m not tying to change your mind just offer another option.

[Scott Memmer]

PM or post its all good.
I"m not tying to change your mind just offer another option.

Keith, thanks. I'll keep this short for now, since I'm working in the shop today.

1) The Epilog Zing is perfect for me EXCEPT it does not have enough power. At 30 watts and 100% power I can get through a maximum depth at about 5.0 mm of the material I use. However, some of this material is only available in thicknesses of 10-12 mm. In that case, I'm having to job out my cutting. I need a full 100 watts of power to get through these materials.

2) Even if I have that, I still want a second, low-powered CO-2 machine that is dedicated only as an engraver. Most of my products cannot be cut and engraved at the same time. They must be cut, deburred, rounded, sanded and polished, and only then, at the end stage engraved. So to avoid switching templates from cutting to engraving between runs wastes a lot of time. It is not a problem now, but we have an opportunity in our industry to double our sales in the next 2-3 years if we can frugally solve some of these problems.

What is the realistic market price for a clean, second-hand Trotec (or other quality brand laser) for me to solve my issue?

Thanks again, Ken. You're a great resource for me on this.

Scott

[Julian Ashcroft]

Have a look at the Chinese Aeon Mira 5, it's a small bed machine, the build quality is up another level on most machines from China. You can get them with either a glass or metal tube.

I have two Aeon machines and haven't had any issues with either.

[Kev Williams]

You have a 30w Zing you're cutting with, and you're looking for a dedicated engraving laser-

So-- why not dedicate the Zing to engraving? -- and pick up a Chinese machine as a dedicated cutting machine? The Chinese machine will also work well for wood engraving. I rarely engrave wood in anything but my Triumph...

[Clyde Baumwell]

There is a very well known American made desktop laser units that are in the 25watt range. I think the manufacturer's name is verboten on this forum because it is not considered enough of a professional level unit. But the price is right and it might fit your needs. I have had a Universal but I now Forge ahead.

[Kev Williams]

Nothing to do with lasers is verboten in my book ;) -- and of the 20 machines I've owned since 1980, only ONE is US made.

Anyway, I'm curious... :)

[Scott Memmer]

Have a look at the Chinese Aeon Mira 5, it's a small bed machine, the build quality is up another level on most machines from China. You can get them with either a glass or metal tube.

I have two Aeon machines and haven't had any issues with either.

Thanks, Julian. I'll looking into that.

BTW, I was reading about imported K-40 type of laser machines and software. Are you using Adobe Illustrator or Corel Draw? The reason I ask is I heard some Chinese machines will only run on Corel.

Thanks Again,
Scott

[Scott Memmer]

Chinese CO2 Galvo laser

Ross, thanks. I have a weird question. I've subbed out a small engraving job to a guy who seems knowledgeable. However, he said that he has a fiber laser engraver from Trotec, but it will only engrave on black material. That makes no sense to me. Is that true?

Thank You,
Scott

[Scott Memmer]

GCC Laserpro Venus II. 300x210mm work area. RF Tube

Hilton, thanks for the info.

Scott

[Mike Null]

Clyde
I don't know of any brand that mentioning is forbidden on this forum. I suspect the brand you say is well known--isn't-- but there were probably hundreds of comments regarding this brand and their business practices.

[Bert Kemp]

Thanks, Julian. I'll looking into that.

BTW, I was reading about imported K-40 type of laser machines and software. Are you using Adobe Illustrator or Corel Draw? The reason I ask is I heard some Chinese machines will only run on Corel.

Thanks Again,
Scott


FYI Laser machines don't run on corel. Corel is software used for designing projects to be cut on the laser. Most of us use corel to design, then we convert it to something the laser understands like a dxf file and send that to the laser. AI can also be used to design but that file still has to be converted to a dxf or something the laser will understand

[Kev Williams]

Bert, that's true with many/most? Chinese glass lasers, which are typically proprietary to Chinese designed software..

However, my 2 Gravographs, the GCC and my old Universal, which are 'metal' laser machines, all come with printer drivers that print directly to the lasers from Corel or AI, among others... Gravograph's "Gravostyle" software is similar to Chinese software in that it's proprietary to their machines, but far and away better than any Chinese software (that I have experience with)-

[Julian Ashcroft]

Thanks, Julian. I'll looking into that.

BTW, I was reading about imported K-40 type of laser machines and software. Are you using Adobe Illustrator or Corel Draw? The reason I ask is I heard some Chinese machines will only run on Corel.

Thanks Again,
Scott

I run all my machines using Lightburn, it's improved so much over the few years it's been out I also use it for the majority of any designing I do, before that I used to use Inkscape.

[Bert Kemp]

Bert, that's true with many/most? Chinese glass lasers, which are typically proprietary to Chinese designed software..

However, my 2 Gravographs, the GCC and my old Universal, which are 'metal' laser machines, all come with printer drivers that print directly to the lasers from Corel or AI, among others... Gravograph's "Gravostyle" software is similar to Chinese software in that it's proprietary to their machines, but far and away better than any Chinese software (that I have experience with)-


Right Kev I should have said most Chinese lasers as thats what Scott said he heard.:D

[Scott Memmer]

Thanks to all of you for the great info. Been slammed. Will respond at more length in a day or two.

sm