Pneumatic Sander

[Andy Hoyt]

Well, my old 42 pound (or so it has felt lately) Makita drill went belly up in a plume of smoke and a dazzling light show this afternoon. And I have to jump quickly for the replacement as I'm gonna have a lot of power sanding to do in the near future.

At first I thought I might try one of those angle drills (as in Sioux) 'til I saw the price. Now I'm considering an air powered angle drill by Grex. They also have one that's set up as a random orbit sander.

So.
Do any of your sand at the lathe pnueumatically? If so your observations please.
Do any of you sand at the lathe random orbitally? If so your observations please.
My compressor is your basic pancake job that puts out about 3 CFM at 90 PSI (I think) and I'm hoping that's enough. Grex says it is. What do yo say?
Are they noisy? Thanks

[Jim Dunn]

Andy me thinks you need a bigger compressor. Smallish type compressors have a short duty cycle. Meaning, as I have been lead to understand, that they aren't meant to run very often in an hour. My small pancke compressor is rated at 20% duty cycle meaning it only should run 12 minutes out of an hour. Would that be enough to run your sander? Probably not. But you should check for yourself to be sure.

Jim

[Gary DeWitt]

Air power makes a lot of sense to me. Why keep buying motors with each new handheld power tool?
The compressor is probably noiser than some sanders, but the air sanders I've heard are pretty quiet. If you can enclose your compressor in a way that dampens the noise, without over heating it, you should be set. As far as compressor capacity, most air tool specs give the cfm and pressure requirements. Don't know if your current one will suffice or not.

[tod evans]

andy, i wouldn`t attempt to run any type of air sander or drill on a compressor smaller that a true 5hp. ........02 tod

[John Hart]

Andy, I've been recently trying out the pneumatic tools lately and having a ball. I was doing all my power sanding on the lathe exclusively with my electric random orbital. I did get a cheap pneumatic sander to try out the method and found that it is a lot quieter...not noisier. An Amish fellow let me try his pneumatic palm sander the other day...all I could say is "Wow"!! It was great. I have a thread over in GWWPT: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=27462&highlight=Pneumatic Where I got a lot of great ideas from everyone. Tod sent me a driver to try out and I gave it a run. I don't think I'll go back to electric....I just gotta make sure I pick the right ones....These are lifelong tools for sure.

[Keith Outten]

Andy,

I own a slew of air tools but I don't use them for long duration jobs. It seems to me that air power is less cost effective, runing a large 5hp motor to turn a very small tool. The compressor will most likely have to run continuiously to keep enough air supplied to the tool. The difference in your electric bill can be significant, I know that mine jumps any month that I use alot of air or when I am welding.

Sometimes air tools are the best suited for the job and sometimes I prefer to use cheap electric tools that I can throw away when they wear out because it is the most cost effective way to go. You can retrofit a 17 dollar electric angle grinder for sanding or use a cheap B&D drill, either one will be less expensive than replacing a 3 to 5 hp motor on your compressor.

My 2cents...

.

[John Hart]

Andy,

I own a slew of air tools but I don't use them for long duration jobs. It seems to me that air power is less cost effective, runing a large 5hp motor to turn a very small tool. The compressor will most likely have to run continuiously to keep enough air supplied to the tool. The difference in your electric bill can be significant, I know that mine jumps any month that I use alot of air or when I am welding.

Sometimes air tools are the best suited for the job and sometimes I prefer to use cheap electric tools that I can throw away when they wear out because it is the most cost effective way to go. You can retrofit a 17 dollar electric angle grinder for sanding or use a cheap B&D drill, either one will be less expensive than replacing a 3 to 5 hp motor on your compressor.

My 2cents...

.

I have to agree with what Keith is saying here as well. My 17 gallon compressor needs to run a lot to power a sander. One of the big reasons I am still entertaining a switch-over to air tools is because the house we are about to buy comes complete with a 1000 gallon air tank and a diesel powered compressor. This setup was installed to run some of the household needs of an Amish family, that will no longer be necessary when we move in. It's a great little asset for the shop if I use it.

[tod evans]

i dissagree about the cost effective issue if a fellow uses his tools for several hours a day air tools and a good compressor are the most cost effective approach. thousands of manufacturing facilities worldwide can`t all be wrong. i choked when i bought my compressors and air tools but now that that`s over my monthly opperating costs are far less than if i where trying to do the same job with disposable electrics, the tools are a joy to use and maintainance is pretty much nonexistant. my biggest electric consuming "tool" is lighting, not equipment, and i have a few large motors that run several hours per day.........02 tod

[Mark Singer]

It is nice to have an air connection over the workbench... Then a small hose or a coiled hose can reach without getting caught on everything as you move around...this works for nailers, die grinders etc.. A small sander that only draws 2 cfm is the Grex right angle....I have one and it is quite nice for shaping with a 2" disc...Most of the bigger sanders draw 5 cfm or more and need a lot of air


http://www.grexusa.com/toolpics/as368.jpg

[Andy Hoyt]

This has been most helpful guys, thanks.

Mark - that's the puppy I was looking at. What's yor take on that tool and my pancake compressor? Good mix or bad?

[John Hart]

i dissagree about the cost effective issue if a fellow uses his tools for several hours a day air tools and a good compressor are the most cost effective approach......

Since I don't have any empirical data to back up my assumptions, I gotta ask, is there a point where the size and efficiency of the total setup and the efficiency of the tools are starkly different than going the electric route. Common sense tells me that if I have a 9 CFM delivery and a sander that uses 6 CFM, I'm going to be running the compressor a lot...and at 5 HP, that may be excessive. I understand that it is preferable to get the most efficient tools but wondering where the lack of size of the compressor and tank is just not worth it?

In the other thread, there are disputes over the reasoning for the casual hobbyist to go with air...but from what I've experienced so far, air is superior. I'm just wondering where the line is drawn in respect to "nice to have" vs "smart to have".

[tod evans]

john, for the average hobbiest 8-16 hrs per week of actual work air is not cost effective. if you find yourself killing good quality electric tools on a regular basis this is a good time to look seriously about air. i would toast a p/c, bosch, makita etc. 5" r/o sander in less than 2 months. a trip to town, rolled eyes in the service dept. and my warranty replacement was in hand and i was heading back to work, out no cash but at least a couple of hours by the time i got done b.s.`n at the tool store. drills and drivers are another tell-tail sign if you should go pneumatic. if you`re changing brushes more than once a year it`s time to start saving for a good compressor. if you`re spraying more than a couple of gallons a week with a turbine you should start looking also......air is not cheap, neither are the tools but if a fellow is doing lots of work or just wants the highest quality tools on the market air is the only answer for hand tools.....02 tod

[Chris Barton]

Hi Andy,

I have both. I don't use my pneumatic sanders much because of 1) lots of dust they create and blow everywhere and 2) CFM required. I have the same compressor that John Hart has (18 gl CM) and it will run very nearly constantly to supply the air power to run the pneumatics. I use a DeWalt right angle drill I got off that big web site that sells everything on earth, specifically as a reconditioned tool, for a fraction of the cost of a new Siux. I have been very happy with the tool.

[Mark Singer]

This has been most helpful guys, thanks.

Mark - that's the puppy I was looking at. What's yor take on that tool and my pancake compressor? Good mix or bad?

I think that has probably the least cfm requirements....but your pancake will probably run continuously... I have a larger PC verticle tank ...that is a good match

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00004Z06E.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

[Gary Max]

I run air all the time in my shop. I just got tired of throwing those $17.00 sanders out in the driveway. It doesn't take long and you got a pile of them. A sander and a screwgun running off air was a major upgrade for me. But I agree with the gang that you will toast your pancake working it that hard. I have a 2 stage 5 horse on a 80 gallon tank.
I like the looks of the one Mark has and my just have to get one of those.

[tod evans]

andy, this is what it takes to run a 1-2 man shop powered by air.this isn`t a hobby shop so take it for what it`s worth...02 tod

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[Mark Singer]

andy, this is what it takes to run a 1-2 man shop powered by air.this isn`t a hobby shop so take it for what it`s worth...02 tod

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Tod,
what is that a 2 stage 10 HP 220volt 35 cfm rig? What do we got there in that dark intriguing photo anyway...is that a big compressor or what:confused:

[tod evans]

Tod,
what is that a 2 stage 10 HP 220volt 35 cfm rig? What do we got there in that dark intriguing photo anyway...is that a big compressor or what:confused:

mark, those are 5hp 4cyl. two stage emglos on 80 gal tanks, the compressor house is kinda dark so that`s what it looks like with a flash, sorry but no fisheye lens either. :) tod

[Robert Mickley]

Well I'm in the air compressor camp. If I can do it with air tools I'm gonna.
Since John is moving into a house with a diesel compressor all ready in place I'm thinking its time to switch to air tools for everything.

John , I don't have the exact air sander you do. I got one from Craft supplies USA, aka the wood turners catalog. They don't carry the one I have anymore.
I won't ever go back to straight power sanding. I don't care for the design of mine but I do like the results. Mine is nothing more than a right angle die grinder with a DA attachment on it. It only takes around 40-50 PSI to make it operate.

As for results, Its outstanding. Now I'm not the worlds greatest turner and sometimes I have to start out at 80 grit. I usually start out straight power sanding, 80, 120, switch over to the DA and and go 120,180,. If I'm feeling froggy I even use 220. Most days at 180 you can't find a scratch anywhere no matter what finish you put on it.


AS for compressors, the mistake most often made is buying the wrong compressor. Now many of you own 2 stage compressors? more importantly why? If you bought it for high CFM you bought the wrong compressor. 2 stage compressors are designed for high pressure, It's not uncommon to see a two stage rated for 175 PSI. I've never had an air tool need that kind of pressure. If Volume is what your looking you need a bigger single stage compressor. I have a friend who has a 4 cylinder low RPM single stage IR compressor with an 120 gallon tank. Pressures are set to Cutoff at 130 psi cut in is set at 100. When it comes on it only runs about 2 to 3 minutes to fill the tank back up. And its quiet. You can stand alongside it and talk on the phone while it's running. We have never had to stop and wait on it. Was it expensive, well thats relative he, paid around $1600 for it. How many of us have cabinet saws we paid that much for? When it comes right down to it a good contractor saw will get the job done but the cabinet saw is so much nicer.

My compressor was a gift so I'm not complaing but its not what I would have bought. It came from Central Tractor it "claims" its a 7.5 hp, single stage. While its not as quiet or as fast as my buddies it doesnt do bad. There isn't a tool in the shop that can run it out of air. It runs my shop and we ran a line to the cousins shop up front.

[Andy Hoyt]

Thanks all. This was most enlightening. My pancake is old but still quite serviceable; all I use it for is nailing and blowing dust off on one thing and onto another. And when I use it to blow it runs constantly. Sounds like I'd trash it pretty quick with a sander.

And since I've no spare change to purchase anything bigger or better (I looked and it comes at an appreciable cost increase), I guess I'll have to bite the bullet and stick with electrics. Nuts.

On the other hand I could go with air, burn up the pancake, and then upgrade the compressor. HMmm. Nope. Prudence rules.

I do appeciate your wisdom.

[tod evans]

smart move andy! keep your eyes peeled and you`ll run across a compressor worth the money. 02 tod

[Jim Becker]

Andy, I'm also considering picking up the Grex angle sander for use at the lathe when my current Souix electric angle sander bites the dust...figuratively and for real. I wouldn't use it for flat work, but at the lathe with a direct DC pickup like I have will be quite workable and I suspect the pneumatic sander will last "almost forever" in this application.

[Andy Hoyt]

Thanks, Jim. Just ordered the Sioux (slow rpm version) from Craft Supplies after lunch. $145 plus shipping. To me this seems like a ton of cash for a small 3/8" drill, but its size and ergonomics are what sold me.

That old Maikta was a $35 (looked it up) unit 16 years ago and has drilled and sanded in three countries and 27 states. Got my money's worth for sure, but at the lathe it was never a good choice. Heavy and too much torque. Had to hold it upside down by the barrel with the handle up against my "turning flab" just to maintain positive control.

My DC is now plumbed to the lathe so the dust production is not an issue.

Really hoping that the Souix will be a marked improvement.

[Ed Lang]

Where would a fella get one of the Grex air sanders if he wanted to?

They must be hard to find as I have not seen one yet and Google only found one place for me.

[Jim Becker]

Andy, the Souix works really well. Do blow it out every once in awhile as dust build-up will vastly shorten its life. And don't lose the chuck key, not that you'll be taking the H&L pad off of it often. I pretty much stick to 2" "wave" sanding disks with mine. (If you do lose the key, Milwaukee OEMs the same drill from Souix and their service centers can replace it...DAMHIKT!)

[Mark Singer]

Where would a fella get one of the Grex air sanders if he wanted to?

They must be hard to find as I have not seen one yet and Google only found one place for me.

I got mine at a Woodworking Show

[Andy Hoyt]

Where would a fella get one of the Grex air sanders if he wanted to?

They must be hard to find as I have not seen one yet and Google only found one place for me.

https://www.packardwoodworks.com

[Jerry Clark]

I am concerned about the Grex sander being to aggressive. The free speed is 15,000 rpm! :rolleyes: Sounds like it may be easy to ruin a nice piece if not careful.:mad:

[Jim Becker]

I am concerned about the Grex sander being to aggressive. The free speed is 15,000 rpm! Sounds like it may be easy to ruin a nice piece if not careful.
It's variable speed and you can also limit the top speed with a regulator on the air line or the screw on the handle. That was the first thing I checked when I was fondling it at a show! (I do the same with the mini die grinder I use for carving at the lathe)

[Jerry Clark]

Jim, thanks for the info. I am thinking of a purchase.:D

[Curt Fuller]

Here's one that's on sale at Craft Supplies. Don't know a thing about it or any other air sander but because it just came in my email I thought I'd pass it along...

http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/cgi-bin/shopper?preadd=action&key=379-1800

[tod evans]

i`ll offer a little time tested advice on right angle tools, the industry leader is dotco. coming in a close second is dynabrade. sioux does make the 30deg close quarters drill in a pneumatic configuration. ...02 tod

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