Anyone cut a Felder slider down?

[Nick Crivello]

Hi guys,

Was offered a great deal on a 2001 era Felder 700S professional with 10ft slider that is complete with all attachments/accessories. Problem is that my shop space is small. I'd love a short stroke slider but this particular one is larger than I can reasonably fit in my garage workshop.

I'm moving more towards the track saw for sheet goods and ripping long cuts so I would probably consider removing/cutting the fence to the right down to maybe 24-30" range. The slider is 10' and bed itself is 8' long. Anyone have experience replacing or cutting a slider down to ~5.5'? The outrigger is easily removed so that isn't an issue.

Thanks!

[Jim Becker]

While it may be possible to physically shorten a longer slider, I gotta say that the better play may be to keep the machine's value by not modifying it, sell it for what it's worth (the market is really good right now for used machinery due to low supply of new) and get a machine actually designed as a short stroke slider.

[Nick Crivello]

I hear you.. I actually found an old 1994 era minimax Sc3 that wasn't running due to a switch issue that for $700. I've got it ripped apart to recondition/restore everything and possibly convert to an aluminum slider like the newer saws (on a DIY basis) down the line, then came across this saw. The man is losing his shop space and offered it for $3k.

Same shop has several other things like a 24" grizzly planer and 20" jointer that I'm lusting after. Everything will 'fit' but you know how that goes...

[Mike King]

The solution is simple: build a bigger shop!

What's the problem on space? Many folk with garage limitations orient the slider along the length of the garage then open the garage door if they need to use the full extension of the slider....

Mike

[Albert Lee]

my shop is 6m deep. or 20ft. the slider in the shop is a 3.8m/7.6m monster. I made it fit into my shop and I didnt need to cut down any component, just need to open the garage door when I need the full length... which I am yet to come to that situation....

[Bryan Hall]

Is there absolutely no room to leave it full length? I'd try to keep it full size but just arrange for it to be short stroked. The day may come where the full length is needed!

[Nick Crivello]

Thanks for all the helpful replies!

The problem is I'm also looking to get that jointer and planer if I can work a deal out (different guy in same shop owns them). Garage is roughly 18x25'. Just roughly plotted everything out in the garage with blue tape; seems to all work if I use the suggestion of placing the saw at the door facing out.

One wall is tool cabinets; RAS, shelving for tools. Opposite wall for Jointer, Planer, shaper, and band saw. Felder and assembly table roughly in the middle. Everything on wheels or a pallet for moving if needed. Dashboard PWS will be folded in the corner for when the track saw comes out. Outrigger table probably won't get much use, just a smaller crosscut fence.

Big machines, little shop.. The monster jointers and planers don't seem to scale in size very much when compared to smaller versions. That is, 8" jointers and 15" planers seem to occupy similar working space despite their reduced size.

Seems to work?

[Phillip Mitchell]

It really just depends, but I’d say if you have a wide open 18x25 to work with then there is certainly a way to work it out.

I have an pretty odd and small walkout basement shop with a 12” jointer, 20” planer (on wheels), 20” bandsaw, drill press, 5 hp shaper (on pallet), 7’ workbench separate assembly table (on wheels) and and SCM short stroke sliding backed up to 16” Tannewitz table saw, 3 hp cyclone, and rotary phase converter/transformer, etc in roughly the same amount of square feet but it’s not free and clear or wide open in any way. I’m a bit extreme and play Tetris with my shop to make it work, but it can work, especially if it’s wide open and you have a roll up door you can work with for extended outfeed space if necessary.

[Nick Crivello]

It really just depends, but I’d say if you have a wide open 18x25 to work with then there is certainly a way to work it out.

I have an pretty odd and small walkout basement shop with a 12” jointer, 20” planer (on wheels), 20” bandsaw, drill press, 5 hp shaper (on pallet), 7’ workbench separate assembly table (on wheels) and and SCM short stroke sliding backed up to 16” Tannewitz table saw, 3 hp cyclone, and rotary phase converter/transformer, etc in roughly the same amount of square feet but it’s not free and clear or wide open in any way. I’m a bit extreme and play Tetris with my shop to make it work, but it can work, especially if it’s wide open and you have a roll up door you can work with for extended outfeed space if necessary.

That's quite the collection in your small space! Especially with two saws in there.

It's a pretty open box. One wall is work bench/cabinets/RAS, back wall has some cabinets and the washer/dryer. Other than that, it's open floorspace.

You mentioned phase converter and transformer... do you have a 480v tool? Reason I ask is that the jointer I'm looking at is 480v but comes with a transformer. I'm not quite sure what to make of it. I thought about rotary phase converter to the supplied transformer in order to reach 3ph 480v. Other thought is to look into a motor swap 1ph or 3ph 240v.

[Phillip Mitchell]

Yes, my drill press is 480V 3 phase and I ended up finding a used 7.5 kVa transformer for a good price when I needed one. I have a 3 phase sub panel on the output side of my phase converter with separate circuits (20 amp and 30 amp.) On the 20 amp circuit the signal path goes like this - 20 amp 3 phase breaker -> 20 amp receptacles -> disconnect switch -> step up transformer (240 -> 480) -> 480V receptacle -> drill press.

This way the transformer is isolated at the end of the signal path and all my other 240V 3 phase tools have their own 240V receptacles.

I would attempt to use the supplied transformer if everything matches up with your electrical supply before doing a motor swap.

And yes, the shop is an interesting collection of old American iron, vintage Italian iron and a touch of Swedish steel.

[Nick Crivello]

Yes, my drill press is 480V 3 phase and I ended up finding a used 7.5 kVa transformer for a good price when I needed one. I have a 3 phase sub panel on the output side of my phase converter with separate circuits (20 amp and 30 amp.) On the 20 amp circuit the signal path goes like this - 20 amp 3 phase breaker -> 20 amp receptacles -> disconnect switch -> step up transformer (240 -> 480) -> 480V receptacle -> drill press.

This way the transformer is isolated at the end of the signal path and all my other 240V 3 phase tools have their own 240V receptacles.

I would attempt to use the supplied transformer if everything matches up with your electrical supply before doing a motor swap.

And yes, the shop is an interesting collection of old American iron, vintage Italian iron and a touch of Swedish steel.

It comes with a 17kva transformer. I was going to pick up a 20hp tier 3 version of this little guy:

https://www.americanrotary.com/products/view/amp-series/
https://www.americanrotary.com/pdfviewer/?pdf=3321

Could I plug the transformer into one of the receptacles? Is a disconnect switch needed?

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Good lord, don't cut it. You don't have to use the full stroke if you only want a 5' slider. I used to work out of a 24x24 garage and had a 9' Felder slider/shaper/jointer planer combo, a 36" bandsaw, a 14" bandsaw, a huge workbench and hand tools, a second jointer and shaper, and a dedicated chop RAS station. It was a bit cozy, but you can do it. By turning the saw diagonal in the space, I was able to get full stroke and nearly full 8' cross cut, without opening the doors.

You also can't cut it and keep the integrity of the Xroll bearing assembly. It would destroy the slider.

[Kevin Jenness]

With some ingenuity you can shoehorn it in. If you have a cad program you can easily draw your machines and associated material paths and shift them around until they work, otherwise make cardstock patterns and move them around on a scale drawing. Use differences in table heights to your advantage. Keep in mind that the working space required including the space the material moves through is only slightly larger than for a cabinet saw, you just have to allow for the extra length of the carriage. My shop was 16x20at one point, and though I didn't have a slider then I would have made it work.

If you absolutely can't fit it in, get another saw that will fit. Don't bastardize a good machine.

[Phillip Mitchell]

It comes with a 17kva transformer. I was going to pick up a 20hp tier 3 version of this little guy:

https://www.americanrotary.com/products/view/amp-series/
https://www.americanrotary.com/pdfviewer/?pdf=3321

Could I plug the transformer into one of the receptacles? Is a disconnect switch needed?

Interesting, I forgot about those mobile phase converters with built in breakers and receptacles until seeing your link. How much does the 20 hp tier 3 unit cost? You will almost certainly be paying a pretty premium for that portability and being able to plug right in, though I suppose I could see the value in certain circumstances. You should be able to find a working used 10-20 hp RPC for ~$1000-1500 (or less in my case) and then I’d say another ~$500 (+) for a separate subpanel, breakers, wire, receptacle, etc. Obviously the price of wire right now is a bit crazy, but electrical supply distributors will be 1/2 the price of the box stores. This costing exercise also depends on how comfortable you are with wiring stuff. I purchased all my own components over time (some of them used), ran all my own wire to the subpanel, made up all the receptacles, etc and called my electrician neighbor to inspect and tie it all into the subpanel and gave him $100 and he was a happy camper. If you have to hire an electrician to do it all then you will be in it for a good bit more $.

I think you will want a way to isolate the power to the transformer so that it wasn’t constantly running and wasn’t starting at the same time as starting the RPC, though I suppose a plug on the input side of the transformer (and being able to unplug it) would technically work. I will let someone else more familiar with electrical code and safety answer that more fully, as I don’t know if you need more of a “hard stop” than a plug and receptacle.

What make is the 20” jointer?

[Erik Loza]

To the OP: Have “heard” stories of it being done but not seen any machine like it in person. That being said, I’m with everyone else: If you truly need a short stroke slider, better to keep an eye open for a used Minimax SC3 than trying to butcher a long-stroke machine. Just my 2-cents.

Erik

[Nick Crivello]

Phillip,

sent you an email with some more info. Thanks.

[Nick Crivello]

I sent the seller a msg that I'll take it, waiting to hear back. The 10' bed is kind of throwing me a bit; I'll store the little minimax for now and see if the Felder works. If not, I should be able to resell it without too much trouble (I hope!).

[Mike King]

Congrats! I think you will love it. Now for the accessories: a pair of Airtight clamps, some Lamb Tool Works parallel guides, maybe a Fritz and Franz.

Mike

[Nick Crivello]

Need to figure out how to move it first....

[Jim Becker]

Nick, you can move the slider with a flatbed trailer no problem with the outriggers off, etc. It's getting it on the trailer and off the trailer that requires some thought, depending on your situation and what's available at the seller's end as well as at your end. When Jeff Bartley picked up the SCM Minimax slider I sold to him a few months ago, we got it up on dollies using a pallet jack and winched it up sturdy ramps into his trailer. We then used the pallet jack and blocking to get it off the dollies for the travel. He reversed things at the other end. The two of us loaded the 1500 lb machine and he unloaded it himself at the other end.

[Nick Crivello]

Nick, you can move the slider with a flatbed trailer no problem with the outriggers off, etc. It's getting it on the trailer and off the trailer that requires some thought, depending on your situation and what's available at the seller's end as well as at your end. When Jeff Bartley picked up the SCM Minimax slider I sold to him a few months ago, we got it up on dollies using a pallet jack and winched it up sturdy ramps into his trailer. We then used the pallet jack and blocking to get it off the dollies for the travel. He reversed things at the other end. The two of us loaded the 1500 lb machine and he unloaded it himself at the other end.

I am hoping to rent a flatbed truck with liftgate. So long as we can get it onto a pallet, should make it straightforward.

[Mike King]

A dropdeck trailer is simpler. Liftgates are often an issue due to the lift gate being close to or over maximum lifting capacity or due to attempting to maneuver the slider onto the lifting platform (the slider is pretty long and lots have been dropped off of the platform). A better strategy if a box truck is used is to load and unload with a forklift or, in the alternative, a tilt bed car tow truck/pallet jack.

but the drop deck trailer is much simpler...

Mike

[Jim Becker]

I am hoping to rent a flatbed truck with liftgate. So long as we can get it onto a pallet, should make it straightforward.

You will be hard pressed to be able to get a big slider on a lift-gate...the wagon is longer than the truck is wide and a lift gate that extends back 10+ feet, well...not a thing. If you have a heavy tow vehicle a drop bed trailer is a better choice, IMHO and there's minimal "lifting" to roll something on.

[Erik Loza]

Hard "no" to fitting any long slider on a liftgate truck.

Erik

[Patrick Kane]

Yeah, i agree. I like the K.I.S.S method with large heavy things. The lower i can keep them to the ground, the better. I just sold a Martin T75 slider(8' wagon)yesterday, and we rolled it up the ramp of a Uhaul trailer with some effort. A winch would work even better. Strap the saw to your pallet jack/skids, and winch it up onto the trailer.

[Nick Crivello]

I was originally thinking about something like this:

https://vallejo.allstarrents.com/equipment.asp?action=category&category=300&key=300%2D0070%2D0

Flatbed with fold under liftgate; they're usually rated in the neighborhood of 1500-3000lbs. Felder is ~1200. Roll pallet up to lift lengthwise, raise to bed of truck then turn 90 degrees so the slider isn't hanging over the sides. Reverse sequence to remove.

I'm checking a few places today and see what they have available; didn't think I'd find a drop bed trailer but will go that way if I can. Most tilt deck trailers don't have winches, so something would have to be improvised? Have to pick up on Weds am; hope I can get it sorted...

[Leigh Betsch]

I've hauled mine between shops on my drop deck motorcycle trailer. Loaded and unloaded with a pallet jack. Way easier than trying to lift it onto a truck bed.

[Patrick Kane]

I was originally thinking about something like this:

https://vallejo.allstarrents.com/equipment.asp?action=category&category=300&key=300%2D0070%2D0

Flatbed with fold under liftgate; they're usually rated in the neighborhood of 1500-3000lbs. Felder is ~1200. Roll pallet up to lift lengthwise, raise to bed of truck then turn 90 degrees so the slider isn't hanging over the sides. Reverse sequence to remove.

I'm checking a few places today and see what they have available; didn't think I'd find a drop bed trailer but will go that way if I can. Most tilt deck trailers don't have winches, so something would have to be improvised? Have to pick up on Weds am; hope I can get it sorted...

The Felder only weighs 1,200lbs? Two moderately fit people should be able to get the saw up a low trailer ramp on a pallet jack. Im not in the best shape of my life, but myself and the buyer(maybe 110lbs soaking wet) got the 2,000lb+ Martin onto the uhaul trailer.

[Nick Crivello]

The Felder only weighs 1,200lbs? Two moderately fit people should be able to get the saw up a low trailer ramp on a pallet jack. Im not in the best shape of my life, but myself and the buyer(maybe 110lbs soaking wet) got the 2,000lb+ Martin onto the uhaul trailer.

Somewhere in that range maybe 1500lbs with the outrigger, etc.

[Jim Becker]

I was originally thinking about something like this:

https://vallejo.allstarrents.com/equipment.asp?action=category&category=300&key=300%2D0070%2D0

Flatbed with fold under liftgate; they're usually rated in the neighborhood of 1500-3000lbs. Felder is ~1200. Roll pallet up to lift lengthwise, raise to bed of truck then turn 90 degrees so the slider isn't hanging over the sides. Reverse sequence to remove.

I'm checking a few places today and see what they have available; didn't think I'd find a drop bed trailer but will go that way if I can. Most tilt deck trailers don't have winches, so something would have to be improvised? Have to pick up on Weds am; hope I can get it sorted...


"YUGE-LY" risky to try and rotate something like that on a lift gate. No way would I even think to attempt that for both the safety of the humans involved and for the machine.

[Warren Lake]

had help many times over the years then many times self sufficient what I prefer. Crappy photo but shows what was done, two hard maple beams, block and tackle and one human. unload same block and tackle slide the machine down the beam. came in for a coffee mother nature decided to make a storm before i got back out. The water didnt help on the maple beams otherwise this is safe as the saw could never take off on its own.

467369

[Nick Crivello]

Going to rent a tilt deck trailer and pickup for weds. Will use pallet jack and come along/cable puller to assist with loading the saw. All the accessories can be thrown into the truck.

Was looking at layout in garage this evening; came upon a configuration that will work out very well indeed... :)

[Erik Loza]

Nick, that's a smart plan. I would also suggest renting a Johnny Bar that has wheels on the end. The last time I helped a residential customer delivery a long-chassis machine via tilting-bed tow truck, the machine low-centered at certain point between the transition from the bed to the driveway and the pallet jack became useless. We were able to scooch the machine the rest of the way by using a 2X4 stud and block of firewood (lever and fulcrum) but a proper johnson bar would have much smoother. Good luck and stay safe.

Erik

[Nick Crivello]

Nick, that's a smart plan. I would also suggest renting a Johnny Bar that has wheels on the end. The last time I helped a residential customer delivery a long-chassis machine via tilting-bed tow truck, the machine low-centered at certain point between the transition from the bed to the driveway and the pallet jack became useless. We were able to scooch the machine the rest of the way by using a 2X4 stud and block of firewood (lever and fulcrum) but a proper johnson bar would have much smoother. Good luck and stay safe.

Erik

Long day but got the saw home!!

The tilt bed trailer and come along made it pretty straight forward. Used two pallet jacks briefly. Brought my floor jack with me. that came in handy for cribbing the saw off the floor and onto the pallet. Getting it off the trailer and into my garage was a breeze. The huge pile of accessories that came with the saw was pretty comical.

Didn't realize it was the 10hp version of the saw until I got home... was thinking 5hp but realized 7.35Kw is just a smidge more that. Came with large binder of paperwork including detailed receipts from the original purchase from the West Sacramento office in 2001, very cool.

Erik, the Felder catalogue seems to suggest there is a mobility kit available. Is that true?

[Mike King]

if you have a narrow pallet jack, that will work wonders. Otherwise, you can install the mobility kit. It is best to have some small kid to crawl inside to install some of the bolts. Guess how I know...

What are you doing to create 3 phase power?

[Jim Becker]

I'm with Mike here...for a machine of this stature, for the (hopefully) few times you need to move it around, a pallet jack is probably the better choice over any OEM mobility kit, IMHO. I moved mine a total of three times and two of them were in at the beginning and out when I sold it this year because of having to work out of a small, temporary shop for probably a year. The other time was to move it a total of 16" in one direction. I rented a pallet jack for the initial placement and that little 16" move. The buyer brought his for moving it out.

[Erik Loza]

NARROW PALLET JACK

Erik

[Ed Fang]

They don’t sell it on their shop site. But you can order a replacement table that is shorter (if it’s an option ) and install that.

[Erik Loza]

They don’t sell it on their shop site. But you can order a replacement table that is shorter (if it’s an option ) and install that.

So, this concept works in theory but in reality, probably not. For multiple reasons:

-The cost of getting "just" a sliding table from Austria to the US will be thousands of $$$ by the time it's all said and done. Customers call once in a while and ask about this or about getting just an outrigger and frame table for their used machine and inevitably run away like their hair is on fire once Service sends them that quote.

-Due to the current LTL delivery situation, I have pretty much zero confidence in any domestic freight carrier being able to deliver just a crated sliding table to any customer in one piece. In my opinion, you are inviting a freight claim nightmare by going down that road. I had to replace the slider on one of my machines recently, due to an ordering mixup. Our tech drove the new sliding table to the customer's location with our own truck. This is the only way you could trust it not to show up like a harpooned whale. It was a warranty claim that was covered by Service but, as you can imagine, incredibly expensive to make happen. Point being that no customer would want to pay that bill.

Moral of all this: It is INCREDIBLY expensive and risky to procure and have delivered major structural parts for any machine this size to your average home woodworker. Hope this makes sense.

Erik

[Ed Fang]

So, this concept works in theory but in reality, probably not. For multiple reasons:

-The cost of getting "just" a sliding table from Austria to the US will be thousands of $$$ by the time it's all said and done. Customers call once in a while and ask about this or about getting just an outrigger and frame table for their used machine and inevitably run away like their hair is on fire once Service sends them that quote.

-Due to the current LTL delivery situation, I have pretty much zero confidence in any domestic freight carrier being able to deliver just a crated sliding table to any customer in one piece. In my opinion, you are inviting a freight claim nightmare by going down that road. I had to replace the slider on one of my machines recently, due to an ordering mixup. Our tech drove the new sliding table to the customer's location with our own truck. This is the only way you could trust it not to show up like a harpooned whale. It was a warranty claim that was covered by Service but, as you can imagine, incredibly expensive to make happen. Point being that no customer would want to pay that bill.

Moral of all this: It is INCREDIBLY expensive and risky to procure and have delivered major structural parts for any machine this size to your average home woodworker. Hope this makes sense.

Erik

I figured as much. And it would be significantly more costly of the size as it goes up. That being said - if you are going for a "short" slider - which I imagine is the 51" type of size - that theoretically should be more manageable than the 10ft ones. . . .

as for outrigger, yeah I have a 51" w/o outrigger. I want to buy the outrigger and go to the 78 table. . the outrigger is easy as its sold online in the feldershop. The "replacement part" 78" is not so easy. Still waiting for a quote. . I guess I should sit down when I get that back .. . .,

[Erik Loza]

. . the outrigger is easy as its sold online in the feldershop. The "replacement part" 78" is not so easy. Still waiting for a quote. . I guess I should sit down when I get that back .. . .,

Yeah, LOL. Not that it matters but I really encourage folks to order as large a configuration as possible at the time of purchase, exactly because it is so prohibitively expensive to buy any of that stuff after the fact. Also, with the production delays from the pandemic (guessing here but I believe this is accurate), pretty much every major structural piece is being allocated for new machinery production. In other words, there may not be "extra" sliders or outriggers available at all for some time.

Erik

[Nick Crivello]

Here's another question for you guys:

Saw will be next to the wall in the workspace. You convinced me to leave the slider length alone (you guys were right!). I do want to reduce the rip capacity in order to get it closer to the wall. The rip capacity is ~50" and not needed. The outrigger and track saw work should give me everything I need.

The current K700s has two rip options 30.5" and 49.25"; I'd like to convert to the shorter option. The 50mm round bar stock the rip fence mounts to isn't a terribly unique part; I could easily cut it to the length I want. Or I could see if Felder has the shorter bar available. I'm concerned about cost and availability when it could easily be reproduced by a local machine shop down the line if I ever wanted the additional capacity back (doubtful).

Thoughts?

[Nick Crivello]

Have a narrow pallet jack on order, expensive but probably worth it.

Going the phase converter route. Might invest in one of these little guys for the convenience. No electrician required:

https://www.americanrotary.com/products/view/amp-series/

Will likely end up with three different machines that require 3 phase, should come in handy and tuck under the work bench nicely.

[Erik Loza]

...Or I could see if Felder has the shorter bar available. I'm concerned about cost and availability when it could easily be reproduced by a local machine shop down the line if I ever wanted the additional capacity back (doubtful). Thoughts?

It will be far simpler and cheaper for you to have a machine shop cut the existing bar and table down locally.

Erik

[Nick Crivello]

It will be far simpler and cheaper for you to have a machine shop cut the existing bar and table down locally.

Erik

I have a 14" Evo cold cut chop saw that will make short work of it. :)

[Ed Fang]

Yeah, LOL. Not that it matters but I really encourage folks to order as large a configuration as possible at the time of purchase, exactly because it is so prohibitively expensive to buy any of that stuff after the fact. Also, with the production delays from the pandemic (guessing here but I believe this is accurate), pretty much every major structural piece is being allocated for new machinery production. In other words, there may not be "extra" sliders or outriggers available at all for some time.
Erik

I can absolutely confirm that what Erik says is right. I just got the quote (had to sit down), for the longer sliding table (not even the largest - the 78"). And yes, they really have no real interest in selling it. . . Its close to half the price of the entire machine. I believe its $2500 for the 78" table, mounting accessory kit, and crating fee. So make sure you get the size you want at purchase. he isnt kidding. . lol

So yes, if the table is not the size you want, you are almost definitely better off selling it and getting one that is the size you want.