best marking gauge on the market

[Assaf Oppenheimer]

Hi folks I got sucked into a rabbet hole reading up on all kind of marking gauges. I was wondering what creekers use?

I have a couple of the new veritas, and plan on getting a Tite mark down the line. bit I really don't know anything about the Japanese brands - except that there was once a Kinshiro marking gauge that is no longer being made...

anyway the last post I saw on the subject was 2014 - what do you think? if anyone has a favorite marking gauge that it is possible to buy I'd like to here your nominations and why

Assaf

[Stephen Rosenthal]

Hi Assaf,

I have a Tite Mark and a Hamilton 6” in walnut. Whether they’re the best is a matter of opinion, but they are fantastic, well-made tools. Which one I reach for depends on what I’m doing - wheel vs. blade. You can’t go wrong with either one - or both.

[Mike Henderson]

The TiteMark is a very good wheel marking gauge. There's a couple of clones of the TiteMark that are decent and less expensive.

Mike

[chris carter]

467074

This is the marking gauge I use 95% of the time and sits in my tool tray. I have another one just like it that comes out of the drawer occasionally. I also have a Veritas dual marking guage and it really only gets used for two things: 1) marking mortises obviously, and 2) dovetail baselines on softer woods because the pin style (which is filed somewhat blade shaped) work great in hardwoods cross grain but can tear in softer stuff.

My issue with the wheel/disc ones is as follows:
1) not as comfortable to use
2) tiny face can cause you to loose registration easily
3) they like to follow the grain in open grained woods when marking with the grain
4) I have learned the hard way numerous times (meaning I have yet to learn my lesson) they if you run them the wrong direction you can loosen up the disc without even knowing it – which moves your line. You discover this after it’s too late.
5) I’m always afraid I’m going to slice my finger digging for it in my tool tray.
6) Can be REALLY REALLY REALLY hard to see the line, particularly when marking with the grain.

My issues with the old fashioned wood pin style ones is as follows:
1) they can tear going crossgrain on very soft woods.
2) When marking dovetail baselines you can’t do that trick where you just drop the post down from the board to the bench. You have to just hold it up and look at it. This has never affected accuracy, but it takes a few more seconds.
3) Can’t get into tight spots. Like on the few occasions where you need to mark something on a partially assembled piece.

[Jim Koepke]

Tite-Mark® across grain and a Stanley pin gauge for marking with the grain. The pin is sharpened more like a knife blade than a pin.

Just a note about what people mentioned in the past: The cutting wheel on a wheel gauge should be tight. It is meant to cut the stock, not roll.

jtk

[Ben Ellenberger]

Me too - I use a wheel-style gauge most of the time, but use a wooden pin style gauge when I’m marking along the grain, especially in coarse grained wood.

I do like the little double wheel attachments that are pre-set to the width of a mortise chisel. If you have a matched gauge and chisel, it makes setting your mortise gauge easy. Of course, then you are back to marking along the grain with a wheel gauge, but for mortises that does not seem to be too much of an issue.

[Bob Jones 5443]

If you're going wheel-based, the Veritas with micro adjust is very convenient to dial in an exact dimension.

https://assets.leevalley.com/Size4/10099/05N3631-veritas-micro-adjust-wheel-marking-gauge-f-01.jpg

[Curt Putnam]

Assaf,
What do you want a gauge to do that you gauges do not? Get or make yourself a wood cutting gauge and try that style. I assume you mean cutting gauge because of the Veritas wheel gauges. Use both styles at different points in your prokects and you will gain a preference.

[Joe A Faulkner]

I’ve not had the issue with the cutting wheel with the Veritas coming loose. I have experienced this with a cheap gauge acquired when I didn’t know any better.

[Derek Cohen]

One first needs to define what is important in a marking gauge. This can be personal.

I prefer a gauge which has ..

1. a blade which can slice, rather than a point which cannot do this. Why? Firstly, it needs to work across the grain as well as with the grain. Secondly, it needs a blade which can slice thin shavings, such as cleaning up the walls of a rebate, or the floor of a mortice.

2. Knives are great for rebates, but only wheels can also do floors of mortices.

https://i.postimg.cc/Cx7fznRm/SD25-1.jpg


3. The blade is best at the very end of the arm. This is not just for visibility, which is a factor; it is also to make it easier to set a depth by "dropping the blade" onto its edge ..

https://i.postimg.cc/VvyHLFhJ/gauge1-zpsjlvujzlp.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/V6VqV4y3/Kinshiro-On-The-Cheap-html-28f206d6.jpg

4. Fine adjusters are nice but not necessary. However, I like to adjust the head/fence and lock it with one hand. Therefore the position of the lock nob is important - within reach, and not needing a second hand.

5. Wheels leave a very fine line, and are not the best choice for end grain. A knife is better here, however wheels are easier to sharpen.

6. The head/fence needs to be comfortable and secure in the hand. The most comfortable of all (for me) is the Kinshiro (on the right) ...

https://i.postimg.cc/k4f96rN7/CG4-zps70819cec.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Assaf Oppenheimer]

OK Ill clarify. I posted this question for a few reasons:
curiosity, what other people use and like
I was less than pleased with the veritas marking gauge on end grain
I would like more than the two I have so that I don't have to change settings throughout the project.

are there any advantages to the pin style? I messed with one once, it seems mostly to tear up the wood fibers (not a clean line)

[Derek Cohen]

Assaf, a pin gauge rules on end grain. A knife gauge follows closely. Wheel gauges come a distant third.

The issue here is that a wheel does not cut as deeply. The fine line on the surface of the end grain soon disappears as the straws close up.

This is going to be more of an issue with mortice gauges. The old vintage pin gauges are great here. However, they are limited in their range. As a result, my personal preference is a knife gauge. The Kinshiro are the best - since these are no longer made, you can find copies, and these are not expensive.

Here is a Kinshiro to show the knives used ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/AHandcutMorticeandTenonPrimer-BlindMortice_html_557894d4.jpg

The great advantage of these gauges is that they can be used with one or two knives, and the knives can be reversed (lots of uses for this).

Regards from Perth

Derek

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Rob Luter]

I use a Tite-Mark® most of the time. I have an old Stanley with a pin sharpened to a spear point that works well too. I also use a homebrew slicing gauge. Which one depends on the wood species and the direction of the mark.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50129736506_7ec2c83f2a_b.jpg

[Dave Beauchesne]

Assaf:
I have a Tite Mark and two Veritas wheel type gauges.
Regardless of manufacturer, sharpening the wheel increases the performance.
Remove the wheel, and, face down on a 1,000 grit stone, flatten it using finger pressure to push down firmly while doing figure eights, stopping and repositioning every five ' eights ' or so and turning the wheel 45 degrees. Continue until you have one complete revolution.
Repeat on an 8,000 grit stone until sharp.
Subsequent sharpening requires the 8,000 grit only.
This is just a guideline, but worked wonders for me.
Best of luck;
Dave B

[Daniel Culotta]

I've found that basic marking, cutting, and pencil gauges are easy to make, and that's coming from someone that doesn't gravitate toward making tools and jigs. I've put together several of each type for different applications or when I need an extra to hold a dimension throughout a project. I've found that ones that use wedges are the easiest to make, easy to adjust, and hold as tight as anything else when set. So, maybe make a few to see which style you like, then spring for a nice one that has the features you want. That was my plan, but I just keep using the ones I made...

The "English" type that Richard Maguire highlighted are especially easy to make and work well. More about them at the link, and I think he made a video too. When making this type I just use a 3/4 dowel with a flat planed on it for the shaft, and it holds great when set. https://www.theenglishwoodworker.com/a-good-gauge/

I do want to eventually get a wheel gauge for the bonus features Derek mentioned, e.g. cleaning up rebates, lap dovetail sockets, etc.

[Assaf Oppenheimer]

Ive done that, and I agree (I brought it up to my 12000 grit shaptons)
didn't try rotating it though ... 🤔

[Jim Koepke]

and the knives can be reversed (lots of uses for this).

Derek, please tell us more.

jtk

[Derek Cohen]

Jim, the Japanese mortice gauges, such as the Kinshiro, has two blades where the bevels face each other ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/AHandcutMorticeandTenonPrimer-BlindMortice_html_557894d4.jpg


When you mark a mortice or a tenon, the bevels face inward, permitting the flat back to score against the walls. This is the same as marking a baseline for dovetails - the bevel faces the waste and the back remains flat.

When marking anything, we do so from a reference side. If you turned the board around and marked the second mortice or tenon line from the other side (since the back would now again face the outside), you would be risking an out-of-parallel boundary line (since the non-reference side is not necessarily parallel). So, we always work from a reference side, and the reversed knife is needed to score the parallel line.

You will find many occasions when you need to work with a a reversed knife: mortices, grooves, dados, cleaning up beads, inlay, and so on.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Christopher Charles]

I also quite like my Japanese mortice gauge, though the Kinshiro was out of reach. I bought the Matsui version from Stu right as he was closing up. However, looks like still available from Suzuki. I agree with others above that marking gauges are like clamps...can't have too many.

https://suzukitool.com/tools/japanese-woodworking-tools/layout/matsui-seimitsu/matsui-kama-kebiki.html

[Jim Koepke]

Jim, the Japanese mortice gauges, such as the Kinshiro, has two blades where the bevels face each other ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/AHandcutMorticeandTenonPrimer-BlindMortice_html_557894d4.jpg

[edited]

Derek

Thanks for the clarity Derek.

jtk

-my doctor wanted me to stop drinking coffee for awhile, on my fourth day.

[chris carter]

are there any advantages to the pin style? I messed with one once, it seems mostly to tear up the wood fibers (not a clean line)

Yes. First, they are easier to see. They are also easy to set a pencil in to darken the line if you need that. I find that to be very beneficial when planing a board to width and I want to be able to see from a distance how close I'm getting to the line with a heavy planing cut. Then when I get really close, I'll switch planes and the darkened line is less necessary as I aim to split the gauge line. Also, they tend to not follow the grain in open grain wood.

You will notice that most of us with pin style gauges file them so they are not round pins. They are more knife-ish. They should not tear the wood at all.... unless going cross grain in softer wood, then they will tear.

[Jim Koepke]

Yes. First, they are easier to see. They are also easy to set a pencil in to darken the line if you need that. I find that to be very beneficial when planing a board to width and I want to be able to see from a distance how close I'm getting to the line with a heavy planing cut.
[edited]

Some times a very sharp pencil is used to highlight a scribed line.

When a pencil line is wanted of will be planed of an Odd Jobs is prefered:

467173

It can also work well with a story stick or as a stop on a story stick.

jtk

[Mike Allen1010]

Jim, the Japanese mortice gauges, such as the Kinshiro, has two blades where the bevels face each other ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/AHandcutMorticeandTenonPrimer-BlindMortice_html_557894d4.jpg


When you mark a mortice or a tenon, the bevels face inward, permitting the flat back to score against the walls. This is the same as marking a baseline for dovetails - the bevel faces the waste and the back remains flat.

When marking anything, we do so from a reference side. If you turned the board around and marked the second mortice or tenon line from the other side (since the back would now again face the outside), you would be risking an out-of-parallel boundary line (since the non-reference side is not necessarily parallel). So, we always work from a reference side, and the reversed knife is needed to score the parallel line.

You will find many occasions when you need to work with a a reversed knife: mortices, grooves, dados, cleaning up beads, inlay, and so on.

Regards from Perth

Derek

One thing is always puzzled me about bevel edge mortise gauges; yes when marking mortises the bevels face in toward the waste side. However when the same gauge/setup is used to mark the tenon, now the reverse is true – the bevels are not facing the waste side. How do you guys accommodate for that, or does it even matter?

Thanks for the info – this is an interesting thread. Mortice & tenons are one of those fundamental joinery skills that really benefit from precision layout and execution. I'm eager to learn how I could do this better.

Cheers, like

[J. Greg Jones]

One thing is always puzzled me about bevel edge mortise gauges; yes when marking mortises the bevels face in toward the waste side. However when the same gauge/setup is used to mark the tenon, now the reverse is true – the bevels are not facing the waste side. How do you guys accommodate for that, or does it even matter?


One option is to use the Veritas dual mortise gauge. You can put the bevels on whatever side you need.

I only use that gauge to mark the tenons. There is no need to have two gauge lines to mark the mortise as the width of the mortise will be decided by the chisel. Mark one line and set the chisel to that.

[Jim Koepke]

One thing is always puzzled me about bevel edge mortise gauges; yes when marking mortises the bevels face in toward the waste side. However when the same gauge/setup is used to mark the tenon, now the reverse is true – the bevels are not facing the waste side. How do you guys accommodate for that, or does it even matter?

Thanks for the info – this is an interesting thread. Mortice & tenons are one of those fundamental joinery skills that really benefit from precision layout and execution. I'm eager to learn how I could do this better.

Cheers, like

The scribe lines only go down an eighth of an inch or so. Saw to the line and your tenon will be fine. The part compressed by the blade will likely swell a touch and make the tenon tighter as the glue dries.

jtk

[Mark Rainey]

One thing is always puzzled me about bevel edge mortise gauges; yes when marking mortises the bevels face in toward the waste side. However when the same gauge/setup is used to mark the tenon, now the reverse is true – the bevels are not facing the waste side. How do you guys accommodate for that, or does it even matter?

Thanks for the info – this is an interesting thread. Mortice & tenons are one of those fundamental joinery skills that really benefit from precision layout and execution. I'm eager to learn how I could do this better.

Cheers, like

I also experience that dilemma Mike. I recall an article by Ian Kirby. He prefers mortising first. Then, after marking out the tenon with the same mortising gauge setting, present it to the mortise. At that point you can see if you can saw on the line, just on the outside border of the line, or leave the line. My first few tenons are usually a bit fat & the the router plane comes in handy. When I get my groove, I get more daring and go for fit right off the saw.