Found some downed trees today in Brooklyn

[chuck van dyck]

Found a bunch of storm damage from Ida and one tree that was freshly cut within the last few days. Typically I just pass this stuff by daydreaming about the day I finally fill the trunk.
Well today is that day!
I’ve turned a lot of kiln dried furniture parts and shallow bowls out of 8/4 but I’m excited to enter the world of turning green wood bowls.
I’ve always been drawn to the warped bowls that are turned to final thickness from greenwood, so I think I’ll give some of that a try first.
Advice welcome :-)

[Brice Rogers]

I like to turn green wood. I "twice turn" - - first cuts are to roughly shape it and get the thinkness down to about 10% of the bowl diameter and uniform thickness. Second cut after it has dried.

The best advice is to process the wood as soon as you can. It is losing water from its ends and that is where the cracks start first. I typically cut the "round" into a pair of "D's" and remove the pith in the process. The wood on either side of the pith is essentially quarter sawn and can be used for pens and thin things. So, after I have a bunch of "D's" I typically continue to remove wood by marking and making circular bowl blanks. If I don't have time to process all of the wood, I might put the unprocessed pieces into a plastic bag or cover them or better yet, apply anchor seal or PVA glue to the end grain. If they are bagged, keep in mind that some species will mold and discolor. So this is only a temporary thing to do, while you are making bowl blanks.

I have "shared" some of my new-found treasures with friends who wood turn. They did exactly the worst thing that they could. One put them into a plastic bag for a year and was unhappy that they got punky. The other friend covered them with plastic and left in the sun for 6 months or a year. They were badly cracked. But in both cases the people did NOT process them quickly.

[chuck van dyck]

Thanks for the tips. Good to know about storing in plastic! Well I’m pretty anxious to get to it. I actually ordered the 2 battery Makita saw I’ve had my eye on forever. Should get here tomorrow. So I plan on breaking down to blanks and turning quite a few bowls over the next few weeks.
By process do you mean, trim and seal a blank, or do you mean rough turn for drying?
Now that I think about it rough turning does kinda seem the way to go unless the plan is to turn them all down now. Will probably be a mix of rough turned and fully turned wet. Are you saying storing a green blank can be problematic?

Unfortunately I don’t have anything like anchor seal. Hoping zinser bullseye will do the trick.

[Paul Williams]

Chuck, tell about that Makita saw after you have some time on it. I like th idea of it using the same batteries as the rest of their tools, and have been thinking of a battery operated saw for use in the garage during the winter months. Good luck with the wood it looks like good stuff.

[Bernie Kopfer]

I don’t believe shellac will work well. Craft Supply’s Tree Saver has worked very well for me. You could take PVA glue type I and thin it slightly and use that as a sealant.

[chuck van dyck]

I don’t believe shellac will work well. Craft Supply’s Tree Saver has worked very well for me. You could take PVA glue type I and thin it slightly and use that as a sealant.

Its a different zinsser product from the basic shellac. Its acrylic, basically killz. Either way, will pick up some anchor seal later!

[Brice Rogers]

I've heard of people using PVA (white glue) as a good substitute for anchor seal. Perhaps 2 coats. Not too expensive if you buy in 1 gallon bottles. It has a little flex so it is less likely to crack. Paints and varnishes are pretty thin and once they crack, they don't do much. I've also used stretch-wrap sealing tape (from an office supply store or HD) and a ring of masking tape to keep it from falling off.

By "process" I mean rough turning a bowl/platter/vase. If you've got a lot of wood and little time then at least getting the pith out, make it round and seal the end grain is better than nothing.

[John K Jordan]

AnchorSeal is all I use. You can buy it in small quantities at WoodCraft. (I bought a 55-gal drum once)
The PVA glue is reported to be good.
Paint: latex paint is not very good. I understand it lets water escape too quickly. Oil-based paint is better especially with several coats.
Aluminum paint is reported to work. So are some things like roofing tar which sounds like a royal mess to me.

Preserving round log sections is difficult, worse in the summer than the winter. Best to process them quickly and seal well. Another thing which works very well is called "ponding": submerge the chunks of wood in clean water, say in a big drum or an actual pond or creek. Change the water if in a drum. Keeping it wet keeps it from drying out. If kept cold in the winter mold and discoloration due to fungi is not much of a problem so wood chunks can be kept in big plastic bags with water added. Can even be frozen. (As an experiment I wrapped a big chunk of wet wood in plastic and kept it in a freezer for maybe 10 years - was still good when thawed out.)

BTW, I define processing another way as well - cut the wood into blanks without the pith and perhaps without the bark, and seal. I've processed log sections into many 100s of blanks over the years, usually for smaller turnings and usually to air dry (I prefer to turn smaller things from dry wood). The rate of success in drying a blank decreases with the size with some species easier than others.

Best advice I've heard is never take more wood than you can turn in a few weeks unless you also like firewood. The exception is if you can get a longer log - the other John Jordan likes this method. Keep the log off the ground and in the shade. When ready to turn something he said he cuts off about 6" and throws it away then cuts a blank and takes it immediately to the lathe. No sealing is needed.

JKJ

[Tim Elett]

If I may ask, on the same subject, i have some treasures we saved from the land fill all maple, 8" to16"in diameter and 12 to 16 inches long.
So I am assuming to leave it set on the garage floor and not cut on it till ready to turn? I coated the ends with tight bond and have been keeping it dry.

[chuck van dyck]

Paul, I’m digging the saw. Works quiet well. It cross cuts great. Gets little bogged down when getting along the grain, but gets it done. The waste when getting along the grain is super stringy and seems to clog the saw a bit. But all in all made quick work of the 12” log pieces. If you buy one, make sure you find the 4x battery deal. Mine came with a dual charger and 4x batteries. Basically a free saw.


Can anyone help me ID this wood? I thought it was maple, but now I’m thinking poplar. Unfortunately there were no leaves around this log.


Thanks for lookin!

[John K Jordan]

... The waste when getting along the grain is super stringy and seems to clog the saw a bit....

That's typical for chainsaws when cutting along the grain.

If you don't know how, learn to sharpen the chain with a file. Quite easy. Need to keep it sharp.
One thing that easily dulls chains is cutting into bark that has dirt on it, gravel down in the bark. Best to brush or hose off any dirt. Sometimes I use a pressure washer.



...Can anyone help me ID this wood? I thought it was maple, but now I’m thinking poplar. Unfortunately there were no leaves around this log.


This article is about identifying wood. Pay attention to section 7
https://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/wood-identification-guide/

Yellow Poplar and the maples have different smells, usefulness of this comes with experience.
If you post a photo of the bark someone may recognize it.
Yellow Poplar often has a lot of green color.
If interested in getting started with wood ID I highly recommend the book "Identifying Wood" by R. Bruce Hoadley.

JKJ

[Paul Williams]

Thanks for the information on your new saw. Enjoy it.
The wood looks a lot like the birch I just received from a neighbor. Unfortunately there are several similar looking woods. Seeing a leaf and more of the bark would help. The database John linked is a wonderful resource.

[Don Orr]

Lots of good advice so far. You have a nice looking burl on the bottom right log too. That should be fun. Enjoy your windfall-literally.

[chuck van dyck]

You could say I’m pretty excited. Got most of it processed into blanks and will start turning soon I’m sure. I’m positive its maple now.
That burl should be fun! Any advice on processing it?
Here’s a blank I cut from a smaller burl on the same log. Should be a pretty piece if I can manage my end of the deal.

[chuck van dyck]

I just had a thought. How concerned should I be regarding ambrosia? The logs with the darker heart wood seems to be ambrosia. I haven't found any worm/beetle holes but I'd hate to infest my shop with any wood boring insects. I work in a shared shop with about 6 other wood workers so combined we have several thousand board foot of various lumber. This is the only green wood, though there is a bit of air dried stock. Do my turning blanks belong in the yard?

[John K Jordan]

I just had a thought. How concerned should I be regarding ambrosia? The logs with the darker heart wood seems to be ambrosia. I haven't found any worm/beetle holes but I'd hate to infest my shop with any wood boring insects. I work in a shared shop with about 6 other wood workers so combined we have several thousand board foot of various lumber. This is the only green wood, though there is a bit of air dried stock. Do my turning blanks belong in the yard?

I don't think you have to worry about that. Ambrosia beetles are forest bugs - I've never heard warnings about them in the shop. Now you can worry if you see powdery frass below tiny powder post beetle holes. PPBs are mostly attracted to green/wet wood. (I once saw a bunch flying towards me from the woods, some landing and starting to dig into the end grain of some log sections I was cutting up outside of my garage, likely attracted by the smell of freshly cut sugar maple.)

The picture you showed of the log sawn in half with a darker center doesn't look like ambrosia to me. I always see ambrosia beetle holes (one to three) in the middle of what are usually narrow streaks.

This page shows typical ambrosia maple, various side views and end grain pics: http://hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/maple,%20ambrosia.htm

JKJ

[chuck van dyck]

I don't think you have to worry about that. Ambrosia beetles are forest bugs - I've never heard warnings about them in the shop. Now you can worry if you see powdery frass below tiny powder post beetle holes. PPBs are mostly attracted to green/wet wood. (I once saw a bunch flying towards me from the woods, some landing and starting to dig into the end grain of some log sections I was cutting up outside of my garage, likely attracted by the smell of freshly cut sugar maple.)

The picture you showed of the log sawn in half with a darker center doesn't look like ambrosia to me. I always see ambrosia beetle holes (one to three) in the middle of what are usually narrow streaks.

This page shows typical ambrosia maple, various side views and end grain pics: http://hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/maple,%20ambrosia.htm

JKJ

Ah, yes! These photos clear that up pretty well. Agreed, what I have is likely not ambrosia. I was dealing with some punky dark wood on my inaugural bowl, but now I’m thinking maybe I left some of the pith.

This sure is fun!

John, thanks again for the guidance and advice.

[chuck van dyck]

Finally had a chance to turn one of the blanks. I have no idea what I'm doing, but this is very enjoyable. I don't own many bowl turning tools as I've always been focused on spindles. 1/2" bowl gouge, 1" round nose scraper, parting tool. I think that's what I used on this. I actually found it pretty hard to get to the bottom of the bowl while staying on the bevel...I'm gonna experiment with regrinding my gouge some. I think I'm at like 55*ish now but honestly can't remember. I need to buy one of those protractor things.

Walls obviously taper off pretty drastically and the bottom is a little heavy. Hit it with 80-220 and am pretty happy with the surface, although I burnished with shavings and I think I overheated the walls cause I heard a little "creek". Hairline fracture...

Anyhow, lookin forward to turning the rest eventually. I got 12 blanks and am quickly realizing, that's too many blanks, haha. If any Brooklynites wanna swing by and grab one, hit me up.

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[John K Jordan]

Very nice. I like the elegant shape on the outside AND the wood! Looks like you have some interesting figure in that wood. The contrast between the dark and light is striking.

The tools you have are good. Some people get a second bowl gouge and grind it at a different angle so they can more easily cut through the "transition" and across the bottom. But smaller angle such as 40 to 45-deg may be better for sides, inside and out, and for detail and tight spots. However, the inside of a shape like yours is difficult with any gouge.

I don't turn many bowls, but when I do I use the same tools as for platters - sometimes use a bowl gouge but generally cut with a Hunter Hercules tool. This, like some other Hunter tools, can be used either as a gouge or as a scraper. I might use the Hercules or, depending on the shape, another Hunter tool as a scraper to shape the insides of a bowl shaped like yours to the wall thickness I want.

I often like to leave the bottoms a little heavy since I like the way it feels in the hand, but not too thick. If a green wood bowl is too thick in the bottom the uneven stresses from shrinking while drying can cause cracks. I don't know about burnishing with shavings but aggressive sanding while the piece is spinning can heat the wood and create more stress than if dried slowly. Someone who finish turns a lot of green wood bowls may have good advice on this.

FWIW, I've never been much of a fan of burnishing with shavings although I know many like to. I prefer to remove tool marks with a negative rake scraper, smooth with hand scrapers with the lathe off, then go directly to fine sandpaper, sanding mostly by hand with the lathe off.

When I do turn green wood bowls I almost always twice-turn them: rough turn the bowl first to fit the shape I want, leave the walls thick, then put it up to dry for a few months. When sealed and dried slowly they almost always survive without cracks. Then when completely dry I finish turn to remove the out-of-round distortion and create the final shape. Of course turning hard, dry wood can be more work than throwing easy green shavings across the room but I like to end up with a round, unwarped bowl or platter.

As for shapes, famous woodturner Richard Raffan suggests something most of us have trouble doing: he recommends periodically cutting a bowl in half as a learning experience to evaluate the cross section, saying it will lead to better shapes and pieces with better balance. I've done this a few times but I have to force myself - I hate to cut up a piece I just turned, especially if I like the shape. It's easier if the wood is unremarkable!
I have on occasion happily cut pieces in half as a teaching aid to illustrate how I shape certain things, for example, the bells of handbell Christmas ornaments:

467646

I'm really glad to hear you are a spindle turner! A number of experts agree that spindle turning teaches the fine tool control that will let you turn anything. (I always start students on spindle turning, first with a skew, then a spindle gouge.) I've known turners who started and stuck with green wood bowls and couldn't turn a spindle if they had to! Turner/teacher Frank Penta told me that in the trades, apprentice turners had to demonstrate proficiency with spindle turning before they could advance to face turning.

JKJ


Finally had a chance to turn one of the blanks. I have no idea what I'm doing, but this is very enjoyable. I don't own many bowl turning tools as I've always been focused on spindles. 1/2" bowl gouge, 1" round nose scraper, parting tool. I think that's what I used on this. I actually found it pretty hard to get to the bottom of the bowl while staying on the bevel...I'm gonna experiment with regrinding my gouge some. I think I'm at like 55*ish now but honestly can't remember. I need to buy one of those protractor things.

Walls obviously taper off pretty drastically and the bottom is a little heavy. Hit it with 80-220 and am pretty happy with the surface, although I burnished with shavings and I think I overheated the walls cause I heard a little "creek". Hairline fracture...