New-old saw till

[Derek Cohen]

As part of the gradual rationalising of my tools - the last episode being the building of an underbench cabinet - it was the turn of my saw till and backsaws. Actually, Lynndy is more astute - she just calls it as it is ... I promised to build a new outdoor table, and I am avoiding it ...

If you get down to it, joinery is what it is all about for me. Chiselling and sawing. The saw till is pretty much dedicated to joinery backsaws: rip dovetail, small and large crosscut, small and large tenon saws, and a mitrebox saw. I have a few dovetail saws. Some I made and some have sentimental attachments: a birthday present dovetail saw from Mike Wenzloff, another from Rob Lee and Lee Valley, my first new dovetail saw from Lie Nielsen, the forerunner from Independence Tools, another a gift made by my mate, Ian Wilkie. I use them all as they have different configurations and suit different woods. And then there are Japanese saws. A Nakaya dovetail dozuki is sublime. The whole Nakaya range is sublime.

This is my old saw till, taken probably about 10 years ago ...

https://i.postimg.cc/kGrNLwx7/5-zps57ebe9ac.jpg

Here is the new saw till, stripped and rebuilt ...

https://i.postimg.cc/j25s4Nzg/1.jpg

The triangular rests at the front pivot away ...

https://i.postimg.cc/yYD1Jm6W/2.jpg

The rear of the till is home to Knew Concepts saws: 5" and 8" fretsaws and 5" coping saw. (The 8" fretsaw was the one that Lee Marshall sent to me, and we worked on together to eventually come up with the fretsaw line for woodworkers). Plus the Japanese saws: flush cutting, dozuki, ryoba, kataba and azebiki.

https://i.postimg.cc/VvVzG6gY/3x.jpg

Here is the completed till ...

https://i.postimg.cc/7Z7q9q2k/6x.jpg

The Western saws sit in mortices ...

https://i.postimg.cc/L4C46Cpr/7x.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/Wbx20dt8/8x.jpg

These were made this way ...

https://i.postimg.cc/GhKtWF3p/12.jpg

Lastly, there are drawers for all the saw stuff: files for sharpening, Stanley 42X and Eclipse 77 saw sets, and so on. Of course, the dovetailing was a fun part of this build.

https://i.postimg.cc/fLPhNbtk/11.jpg

Hopefully some ideas for you.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[David Publicover]

Hi Derek,
That is very nicely done. The timing is also excellent as I have been contemplating making a saw till once I get a few other chores completed.
We moved this summer to a place with a much bigger workshop but I don’t have it close to sorted out yet. I’m hoping to have it wired up soon and a saw till is on my list after that. However, as I’m sure you’ll appreciate, I’m not the only person in the house that keeps a list…
Beautiful work. Thanks for sharing.
David

[Curt Putnam]

A very save of the old till. If I ever get wall space, I will keep these ideas in mind. Thank you for sharing.

[Scott Winners]

I like it. I looks like you have a veritable crap ton of saws in there, but you can get to all of them easily. Nice job, elegant as usual.

[Mike Allen1010]

Derek, I really like how you use the hinged racks to create two layers of saw storage in a single space – nice to be able to access both the commonly used joinery saws and the other saws on the back of the cabinet, while using only a single "footprint" of space on the wall. Typically well designed and executed. I always enjoy your threads. Thanks for sharing.

Best, Mike

[Joe A Faulkner]

I also like the hinged saw racks. I see saws all of the time in tills with the blades touching wooden components of the till. Any concerns with corrosion or similar reactions that the saw blade might have to prolonged contact with the wood?

[Derek Cohen]

Thanks everyone.

Joe, the way the saw backs are held in the slots ensures that the teeth do not come into contact with anything that may damage them. There is also no chance of the plate being twisted, and all weight id taken off the backs and plate. This orientation is possible the safest way to store backsaws.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Christopher Charles]

Derek,

Clever solution, the racks remind me of the saloon doors from old westerns :)

Best,
Chris

[Clifford McGuire]

Beautiful work. Lots of great ideas for us there Derek.

Way better than an outdoor table. :)

[Lee Laird]

Great ideas in that saw storage. Thank you for elevating the forum!

Cheers,

Lee

[Eric Rathhaus]

Derek - do you have a similar till for your western, non-back saws?

Eric R.

[Derek Cohen]

Eric, I have a few panel saws. These hang from a hook alongside the cabinet. Reason: they are used but only for breaking down boards when it is not possible to manage them on my slider (Hammer K3). I am comfortable integrating power and hand tools. There is a place for each, sympathetically. Most of my ripping and crosscutting is done by machine now. The handsaws are my go-to for all joinery.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Scott Winners]

https://i.postimg.cc/yxVBbg2R/14.jpg

Then, when you use the saw file guide, it will amaze you how easily it is to alter the file angle without meaning to do so. Once you have checked a few times how you are progressing, it becomes more automatic.

Regards from Perth

Derek

So follow up question, where do you store your binocular magnifier, and what else do you use it for? I have one coming in from Amazon this weekend, and I am running out of room for drawer width in my new saw till in a bigger hurry than I like. My magnifier is "supposed to be" 10.8 inches wide...plus the drawer will need two sidewalls.

It never ends does it? Leave a little room here, and something in the shop moves into it. Leave a little room there, something moves in.

Bold mine. That is an astute observation right there. Up to 10-11-12 teeth per inch I have learned - from practice paying attention- to use the guide bar on the Veritas saw filing guide to good effect with my peripheral vision. I am happy with my kerf walls anyway. With a magnifier on the way and my carcass saw needing some attention, I am likely to slice up some thin plywood at the fleam angle, paint it a contrasting color, and slide it along the plate as I file along. My concern is with the reduced focal length and depth of field using the magnifier I won't be able to see the guide bar on the filing guide in my peripheral vision. The LV carcass saw is - I will go find the manual- 15 degrees horizontal fleam in the crosscut version, published.

I guess I will find out this weekend. That little rascal has become my favorite saw in the shop despite my original skepticism. If I can't sharpen it with a magnifier I will buy two so I can have a sharp one to use and a second being sharpened by someone with better eyes than mine.

Thanks again Derek.

[Derek Cohen]

Scott, I just hand the magnifiers (I have two) on the saw vise. This is the one I use. It has a range of lenses ...

https://www.amazon.com/AZFUNN-Headband-Magnifier-Magnifying-Professional/dp/B07NLRJ9MJ/ref=sr_1_12?crid=275EWLM1TCAHK&keywords=magnifier+head+with+light&qid=1643783141&sprefix=magnifier+head+with+light%2Caps%2C311&sr=8-12

It takes me about 10 minutes to re-file a dovetail saw. Setting is an extra 5-10 minutes.

I have just redone a Veritas 14 tpi, with the first 1 1/2" at 15 degrees and the remainder at 7 degrees - starts easily and then powers up.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Cory Newman]

Derek - I enjoy your builds. Are the backsaws attached in any manner? I'd be a little worried that I might knock an adjacent saw out when retrieving one if I wasn't really careful?

[Derek Cohen]

Cory, the saws each have a dedicated slot that holds the back in two places, making them very secure ...

These were made this way, creating the ideal depth and width for each back ...

https://i.postimg.cc/GhKtWF3p/12.jpg

These slots are for the brass backs.

Over the front a solid section is glued, and this is slotted for the blade. When the back is slid down into the slot, they are effectively locked into position.


The "gates" are locked from the outside of the cabinet, so they do not swing freely.

If you look carefully here (at the sides), you will see two hex keys (one on each side). Just pull one out half way to release a gate.

https://i.postimg.cc/7Z7q9q2k/6x.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Cory Newman]

Thank you, very good

[Jack Dover]

Derek, is there a magnet or something in the triangular swinging pieces? Or is it friction fit? I was contemplating something like this, but all the prototypes had saws occasionally falling out when swung. Couldn't find a good and simple solution to this.

[Charles Taylor]

Derek, is there a magnet or something in the triangular swinging pieces? Or is it friction fit? I was contemplating something like this, but all the prototypes had saws occasionally falling out when swung. Couldn't find a good and simple solution to this.

Where Derek says this...

Over the front a solid section is glued, and this is slotted for the blade. When the back is slid down into the slot, they are effectively locked into position.


...he means this.
473008

I wondered the same thing as you at first and didn't notice Derek's solution until he explained it.

[Derek Cohen]

I’ll try and take a photo of this and post it.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Derek Cohen]

Here can be better seen the section that runs across the front of the grooves for the saw back. This was glued and screwed as a single board to the front, and then a kerf added for the saw blade ....

https://i.postimg.cc/9MVgS8y8/19.jpg

As now seen, the saw back is trapped in the groove. The lower groove is left open.

https://i.postimg.cc/4d52T65J/20.jpg

I will add that the same system was used for the Japanese saws inside the cabinet. Some required openings for the saw backs/spines, while a few did not. I simply drilled and chiselled these out.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Scott Winners]

Here can be better seen the section that runs across the front of the grooves for the saw back. This was glued and screwed as a single board to the front, and then a kerf added for the saw blade ....

As now seen, the saw back is trapped in the groove. The lower groove is left open.

Regards from Perth

Derek

That is pure T genius right there.

[Cory Newman]

now I understand, I didn't see the front piece that held the backs in. Thanks