Test Drive of a Veritas Dovetail Saw

[Jim Koepke]

One of my grandsons and granddaughters is up for a visit. My grandson Mike has a bit of interest in woodworking.

We have been working on making a box for him to store his shoe maintenance supplies. He recently built a shoe rack. It was difficult for me to let him do all the work of cutting slots and dovetails.

Since he doesn't have a lot of tools it seemed like a good idea to buy him an early Christmas present even if he celebrates Chanukah instead.

Him and his sister decided they wanted to camp on the Olympic Peninsula and left yesterday. His saw arrived yesterday.

Resistance was futile…

A piece of scrap was cut, squared & marked.

The saw was amazingly comfortable in my hand. The sawing seemed effortless. Easy to track and a light grip lets the saw do its work.


Made of high-carbon steel, the blade is 9 1/4" long and 0.020" thick, with a cut depth of about 1 9/16". The teeth, set 0.003" per side, have a rake angle of 14° and an included angle of 60°. The blades have 14 or 20 rip-cut teeth per inch. The 14 tpi model is most efficient on stock thicker than 1/2"

466785

Usually it takes me a few practice sets of dovetails to get one to come out this well. Usually my pins are marked with a knife. This time a pencil was used. Had to catch myself a couple time starting the saw on the wrong side of the line.

This is a great saw for the price. My recommendation for anyone looking for a great, ready to go out of the box dovetail saw for less than $100, this is the one.

jtk

[Scott Winners]

Thanks for the confirmation Jim. I got the full set of 3 Veritas joinery saws a few months ago but really can't compare them to anything. All I can say is "they work good and were ready to go out of the box." The handles fit my hands good enough that I am not seriously considering modifying the handles. I agree they track well compared to my regular sized handsaws, and a light grip works well.

With my 50+ year old eyes trying to restore vintage examples of the set was a non starter.

The tenon saw is a bit of a beastie I think. If you were to get one of those a few days before whatever holiday I strongly encourage (beg?) you to give it a go and let us know. I do like the carcass saw in the set rather a lot.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Tried one at a woodworking show and my daughter wanted one so I bought it for her. She has then not had time to use it, so I have been using it. Even after I sharpened the saw it was great. A friend of mine tried it and was so impressed he asked me if we could sharpen his saws together. I have only sharpened one hand saw, the Lee Valley dovetail saw, so I don't really have lots of experience, but that one sharpening was enough for him to decide I could do it well. I think I simply did not mess it up.

Love the saw, works great.

[Frederick Skelly]

"This is a great saw for the price. My recommendation for anyone looking for a great, ready to go out of the box dovetail saw for less than $100, this is the one."

+1. I like mine.

[Scott Clausen]

I have one too, fits my hand well. I think they will have about 300 in their seconds sale this Wednesday.

I also bought a Florip DT saw just to have a back up. Very nice too but you will need to be patient. Mine took about four months to arrive.

[Derek Cohen]

I was sawing dovetails for three drawers made of thin Radiata Pine. The 20 ppi Veritas dovetail saw sliced through it like a Japanese saw. Incredible value for money ...

https://i.postimg.cc/fLPhNbtk/11.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[steven c newman]

Tried this saw way back when....while visiting Charles Neil's shop......found I much preferred my Disston No. 4 backsaw. 9 ppi, filed rip, Because as far as I know, cutting dovetails involves mainly rip cuts.

Must be my hands...The Disston seemed to fit a lot better. And, didn't feel quite as flimsy.

[Joe Bailey]

The LV Veritas dovetail saw (in either configuration) is indisputably one of the great bargains to emerge from the revival of woodworking hand tool manufacturing.

[Derek Cohen]

9 ppi, filed rip

What on earth are you cutting with this, Steven? That is very, very coarse for a dovetail saw (the topic here). That is what I would use for a large tenon saw.

The standard Veritas dovetail saw has 14 ppi and a relaxed 14 degree rake. This is perfect for those entering dovetailing, as well as those wanting a dovetail saw for starting a saw cut. The 20 ppi version, I mentioned above, is exceptional for thin boards (1/4" drawer sides).

Regards from Perth

Derek

[steven c newman]

My Disston No. 4 is 14" long,,,is 9 ppi and is filed RIP....

The "other" No. 4s in the shop are 26-30" long, 11 ppi, and filed cross cut....as I need them for work in the Mitre Boxes I USE....Stanley No. 2246, Stanley No. 346, Stanley No. 358, and a Langdon No. 75....with the "go-to" being the #358....

I do have a "Broom handled" No. 68....for use in the 1/4"-1/2" Ash I tend to use.....

These is a SMALL HOBBY backsaw....with TINY teeth....rarely used, because it takes forever to cut 1/4" deep in 1/4" stock...hand tends to cramp up...
I tend to use the No. 68 when doing the Finger/Box Joints for the boxes I make...and IF I decide to dovetail a box, I'll use which ever is at hand.

Like I said, I did try that fancy saw, when I visited Charles Neil's shop a couple years ago.....Liked the feel of my old No. 4 better. Both were able to start about the same....

Also...since Dovetail work IS rip cuts....why the super fine teeth filed CROSSCUT? No wonder it takes sooooo long to do any rip cutting....YMMV

[Derek Cohen]

As I said Steven, 9 ppi is very coarse for a dovetail saw. Perhaps if you were sawing a 2" thick board ...?

The Veritas dovetail saws are, incidentally, both filed rip - not crosscut. 14 ppi is pretty average for a dovetail saw working with 3/4" thick stock, especially hardwood. I would not want to use it on 1/4" thick soft wood, which is typical for my drawer sides, as it would "stick". The Veritas is actually easier than most to start as the rake is 14 degrees - quite relaxed. For the thinner boards I would use the 20 ppi saw. This is smooth and fast enough in such stock, and much more controlled. I would hate to try to start a 9 ppi saw in such wood.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Tyler Bancroft]

I was sawing dovetails for three drawers made of thin Radiata Pine. The 20 ppi Veritas dovetail saw sliced through it like a Japanese saw. Incredible value for money ...

https://i.postimg.cc/fLPhNbtk/11.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek, I'm quite envious of the results you get with those terrifying Australian woods, and not at all envious of the work you have to do with them. ;)

[Jim Koepke]

why the super fine teeth filed CROSSCUT?

If the saw you were using was filed crosscut, it wasn't a saw meant for cutting dovetails.

Small teeth filed rip work fairly well in a crosscut with smaller stock. They are not for cutting 2x4s.

jtk

[Derek Cohen]

Derek, I'm quite envious of the results you get with those terrifying Australian woods, and not at all envious of the work you have to do with them. ;)

Thanks for the compliment Tyler. However I should point out that the drawer fronts were West African Makore. it looks a lot like Jarrah, but is softer and less interlocked. The drawer fronts were a challenge nevertheless, but mainly because the board I had was a remnant from a build, and had cracks in many places. It was held together with superglue and epoxy. The drawer sides are soft and brittle Radiata Pine. The triangles are Merbau.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Tyler Bancroft]

Thanks for the compliment Tyler. However I should point out that the drawer fronts were West African Makore. it looks a lot like Jarrah, but is softer and less interlocked. The drawer fronts were a challenge nevertheless, but mainly because the board I had was a remnant from a build, and had cracks in many places. It was held together with superglue and epoxy. The drawer sides are soft and brittle Radiata Pine. The triangles are Merbau.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Having read a number of your articles and posts, I think you're entitled to use some more cooperative wood occasionally. Pictures of woods like jarrah and fiddleback marri make me happy that my "local" woods are things like maple and cherry.

[steven c newman]

I use what WORKS for me....YMMV.

(But...then again...I am NOT trying to sell a saw...)

[J. Greg Jones]

I use what WORKS for me....YMMV.

(But...then again...I am NOT trying to sell a saw...)
I don’t think at this point the conversation is about what works for you. Or YMMV. Or someone trying (or not) to sell a saw. It’s about you calling out the Veritas dovetail saw as filed crosscut when it is clearly filed as rip.

[Jim Koepke]

I use what WORKS for me....YMMV.

(But...then again...I am NOT trying to sell a saw...)

You keep making accusations without benefit of any support.

If my post on this is an attempt at "trying to sell a saw," my efforts haven't been effective. So far my grandson has a better saw than he had and is impressed with it. It impressed me so much a 20 ppi saw was purchased at the seconds sale to complement my other dovetail saws. Those do include a Disston among others used for cutting dovetails depending on the particular project.

Currently the market for joinery saws is limited. There are saws at the Big Orange from $10 to $30 that are useable for the job. They are worth what is paid for them. One of my dovetail saws is such a saw. It doesn't cut as smooth as any of my modern 'premium' saws. Most folks purchasing their first dovetail saw would have a problem with a used flea market or estate sale find. You have even mentioned having to have someone else sharpen your saws.

The Veritas dovetail saws are among the lowest priced 'premium' saws on the market. My saw kit, without a handle, cost more.

You also mentioned (or implied) the Veritas saw you used and found lacking was filed crosscut. My guess is you were using something other than a dovetail saw.

jtk

[steven c newman]

IF YOU found a saw YOU like...more power to you....I'll keep using what I am comfortable using.

A poor workman always blames his tools....while a good one will learn HOW to use those tools. Which camp are you in?

All I was saying was I did indeed try such a saw out....saw started about as easy as my No. 4 Disston....took a bit longer in the cut...and tended to wander around in the cut. Saw was tried out about a year before Charles passed away.

YMMV....

[J. Greg Jones]

IF YOU found a saw YOU like...more power to you....I'll keep using what I am comfortable using.

A poor workman always blames his tools....while a good one will learn HOW to use those tools. Which camp are you in?

All I was saying was I did indeed try such a saw out....saw started about as easy as my No. 4 Disston....took a bit longer in the cut...and tended to wander around in the cut. Saw was tried out about a year before Charles passed away.

YMMV....
None of that is what I’m taking issue with. You stated multiple times now that the Veritas dovetail saw is filed crosscut. It is not. And you are also implying that those that state that fact are only trying to sell the saw. Why not man up and say you were mistaken?

[J. Greg Jones]

Ok, that was.....special. since I do not remember seeing YOU at that get together at Charles Neil's shop....and...get YOUR bleeding facts straight....IF that is even possible with you.

Out of here......
What facts would that be? You can only libel a company for so long before the facts catch up with you.

[Tom Levy]

Veritas makes two crosscut saws the same form and size as the dovetail rip saws, it could be that's what he was using. 16ppi and 22ppi

Or someone re-sharpened and re-filed a rip version crosscut

Either way there is no telling what the saw actually was by arguing on the internet and trying to force someone to admit they were wrong. Why get so upset about what he is reporting about his experience? I've got quite the LV collection and have spent tons of money and love their products, it's not a slight on the company or products for him to share that he found a crosscut saw visiting someone and it didn't cut dovetails well.

If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.

[J. Greg Jones]

He didn’t say he found a crosscut saw that didn’t cut dovetails well. He said the Veritas dovetail saw is filled crosscut instead of rip. Big difference. And he is also insinuating that the members here are offering disingenuous opinions because they are trying to sell saws. Or are you so accustomed to fake news that you don’t see a difference? And I’m being nice.

[Cliff Polubinsky]

Anyone want to start a pool on how long before this thread gets locked?

Cliff

[J. Greg Jones]

For the record, the only Veritas saw I own is a flush trim saw, therefore I have zero experience with the Veritas dovetail saw. Having said that, I see the same 1-2 people bashing Lee Valley and Lie-Nielsen at every opportunity. They speak of customers wasting money on current production tools, suggesting that the money would be better spent on vintage tools. Perhaps so. Or saying that the tools are not made as they should be (rip or crosscut).

But here is one thing that is indisputable. Lee Valley and Lie Nielsen are absolute pillars in the woodworking community. I’m most familiar with Lee Valley, so I’ll mention that prior to his death the founder Leonard Lee has received huge acclaim in his donation to medical research. Lee Valley has also received global recognition for they compensation structure they have in place that makes it much more equitable to the lower-level workers that was ever seen in a Stanley, or Millers Falls, or other manufacturers of the 20th century. The president of LV participates in this and other online forums, offering support and solutions to CS issues. Both LV and LN are hugely supportive of their communities and new woodworkers. How someone could say ‘If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.’ when people attack these companies is beyond me. Feel feee to comment on how Stanley or Millers Falls, etc. enriched anything other than their own corporate profits.

[steven c newman]

Ok...I went back and READ my posts.....and I did NOT say the saw I tried out was filed either way...



Well...more than welcome to show up at my shop....have an Geo. Bishop No. 10 you can try out....coarse or fine teeth? Saw has both...