How fine do *you* sharpen?

[Tyler Bancroft]

After reading the many informative responses in the other sharpening thread currently going on, I'm curious: What fineness of stone/film/grit do you sharpen to? I usually go to DMT extra-extra-fine (3 micron/8000 grit), unless it's a roughing plane like my scrub, in which case I might stop at extra-fine. I'm generally happy with the performance of my tools at the 3 micron level, so I'm curious whether people who go beyond that notice a difference in performance.

[Luke Dupont]

Depends on the tool and what it needs to do.

I generally use the following media:

Diamond stones, #150-#600 or a coarse, friable hardware store stone for repairing or reprofiling tools.

A fine India or other Aluminium Oxide stone, for lighter repair and grinding work, or for really dull tools (I like the prefilled Norton India stones and highly recommend them as a basic all around beginner stone. The fine India is a good all around stone, quick cutting, stays fairly flat, and leaves an edge that is, while a tad coarse and in need of refinement, serviceable and easily refined on a strop or natural stone)

Natural Oilstones: (True / Vintage) Washita, Soft Arkansas, Hard (not true hard) Arkansas, and Black / Transluscent / True Hard.
In particular, I have a little blue black, semi transluscent arkansas stone that gives an insanely good edge which I absolutely love. Got it used on Ebay, no idea of the maker. I use it for razors as well as tools, and it gives me a more comfortable shave than any other sharpening media that I've tried.
The Vintage Pike Washita, and the (not true) Hard Arkansas are my second favorites.

For a lot of work, the Hard Arkansas (a little finer than a soft) is a good all around stone -- just coarse enough to remove the scratches from a coarser stone or resharpen an edge that is dull but not chipped, but just fine enough to leave a satisfactory edge for most planing and chiseling tasks, and certainly for any pocket or kitchen knife.

If a tool is slightly dull, I go straight to the Hard Arkansas or the Washita, strop it slightly on bare leather, and end with that. One stone.

If there's some damage or chipping I may go to the India or even Diamond plate, depending how bad it is, and will then go to the Hard Arkansas.

If I need a really fine edge, I'll go to a black, or that awesome blue black that I mentioned.

If I know I'm going to a finer stone like a Black Arkansas, I may refreshen the blade on a Soft Arkansas instead of the Hard, as it's just ever so slightly coarser and quicker, but it depends on the steel.

Different steels behave differently on different stones. On some of my Japanese tools, even a Soft Ark gives a really fine edge, yet is still just fast enough to do the job quickly, provided the edge isn't too far gone. If I'm doing rough work, I may not go any further than this.

Three more things I'm playing with, but aren't my go to are:

Jnats, particularly a Binsui and some cheap, common green colored natural finishing stone just sold as "Tennen Koppa"
I love the Binsui, but want a better finisher. Maybe I'll try a Kiita or Suita.
Also, a Kanaban and loose silicon carbide grit for flattening the backs of Japanese chisels, flattening oilstones, and intense bevel work / repair, all of which are activitiies that have completely destroyed many of my diamond plates. Diamond plates have a real issue with durability, and once the grit is worn off or worn down, which is surprisingly easy to do, they're of no more use.

Jnats are just a fun fascination for me right now, and not my go to, though. I still like my Arks... Mainly because I don't have the money to sink into really nice Jnats, and because my Arks work just fine as they are.

In the past I've tried synthetic waterstones, which I didn't like for a few reasons: they dish really quickly and require constant flattening, they're way messier than oilstones or diamond, and they often (depending on the stone) require soaking before use. There's also the need (sort of) for a sink. All of these things make them really a chore to use, and I don't like the feel and feedback of them so much, at least not the King stones that I used to use. Natural stones just feel better to me, and natural waterstones are splash and go, no soaking required, and don't dish so badly. They don't require quite so much water either, I feel. Less headache all around.

Diamond stones were my go to for a while but I got annoyed with them for a few reasons:
1) they wear out quickly
2) I couldn't find a liquid to float particles off of them that worked well, and didn't want to buy some specialized product to do so. Neither oil nor water work well on them.
3) they don't "feel" good when in use
4) they leave really deep, coarse scratch patterns, and hence a much coarser finished edge that isn't so nice as a finishing stone, and not so easy to refine on other types of stones within a progression. An india or especially a natural stone will cut much shallower scratches and leave a surface that is both much finer, and much easier to refine in a progression.

That said, Diamond stones have a ton of advantages in that they are low maintenance (until they inevitably wear out), dead flat, can cut any steel imaginable (though they will wear out on hard steels. I ruined a few on the backs of Japanese chisels), and are just all around reliable and fool proof. It's the durability aspect more than any which caused me to move away from them and utilize them only for specialized tasks.

Occasionally, sandpaper plays a role in coarse sharpening or flattening of stones, and I'll also occasionally make use of a loaded strop (green polishing compound), but I do less of this recently.

Long winded answer, I guess...

But, if I were to start over, I'd just go with a single coarse diamond stone, a combination Norton India, and a Hard Arkansas. And maybe a strop. With those three stones, you can do most sharpening that you'll ever need to, unless you get into straight razor honing... And even then you can use a loaded strop to get a shaving edge, though I prefer not to as it rounds off the edge of a razor too much for my liking.

[Mike Henderson]

I go to a Shapton 8000 stone.

Depending on the condition of the tool, I may shape the primary bevel on a WorkSharp with a diamond disk. I also have DMT plates from extra coarse to fine and Shapton stones of 1000, 4000 and 8000.

For carving tools, I power hone with green compound.

Mike

[Andrew Seemann]

For planes and chisels, assuming they have been already prepped, back polished, and so forth, I do a hollow grind on the Tormek, freehand a secondary bevel with a 4000 grit water stone, and then hit them briefly on the leather strop wheel on the Tormek with that abrasive toothpaste that comes with it. It's a friable abrasive, so who knows what grit it ends up at.

For touch ups, I freehand on the 4000 grit water stone for maybe 30 seconds and hit the strop again. When I get too impatient on how long it takes to redo the secondary bevel, I grind a new primary on the Tormek.

To fix small dings, I might use a fine diamond stone, otherwise for larger ones I just regrind the primary bevel.

[john zulu]

Depends on the tool. Generally Chisels and handplanes up to 8k.

[Jim Koepke]

What fineness of stone/film/grit do you sharpen to?

With water stones it is an 8000 Norton, 3µ.

With Oilstones it is a somewhat grey translucent or a surgical black.

Depending on my feeling at the time these may be followed by a hard leather strop charged with green compound.

jtk

[Michael Bulatowicz]

I sharpen everything to the highest level I can; a refined edge is a more durable edge as well as being more pleasant to use. I previously sharpened only as far as I deemed necessary for a task, erroneously trying to save time. Then, a while back, Tom King pointed out to me that there’s no such thing as “too sharp” in a woodworking tool, and after testing his assertion myself I believe he’s correct. For what is now only a little extra effort I get more (and more pleasant) use out of a tool before resharpening, even though I resharpen earlier in the wear cycle than I used to. Part of this is certainly technique and part of it is the more refined edge to start.

Depending on the steel, I go to either a Sigma Power 13k or a Dan’s hard black Arkansas stone. Depending on the tool, I then either lightly use a buffing wheel charged with Formax green compound or a piece of flat (planed) hardwood charged with Autosol as a strop. I most often use the buffer much less aggressively than for David Weaver’s “unicorn method” but I have experimented with that as well.

I originally purchased my Arkansas stones because I wanted to have something better than diamonds and more appropriate than waterstones for my carving tools (which can quickly leave a rut in a waterstone if you’re not careful to use the full face of the stone-DAMHIKT), but as I gain more experience with them I find that I am starting to prefer oil stones for most steels.

[steven c newman]

I go to 2,500 grit....then either the strop or the cloth wheel, with the Green Compound....Single,flat bevel....first 1/2"-1" of the back is also flat. tain't Rocket Science....

One can get a mirror polish on a butter knife...and it would STILL only cut butter.....maybe.

I tend to keep the strop handy, for quick touch-ups....strop at one time, was a "Work Belt" I hung my Carpenter's Nail bags from....for about 6 years. Got too old to do Concrete form work..retired. Belt was "recycled" into a strop....after over 15 years of use as a strop...I might have to spend the $10 for a new belt.......someday..

[Edward Weber]

As usual it depends on the tool, the sharpening angle, how it's used and on and on.
I sharpen sufficiently for my needs, not beyond.
A freshly sharpened cutting edge begins to wear the moment you start to use it.
An edge that is sharpened to 10k grit will quickly dull down to the equivalent of an blade sharpened to 4k when put to use. The ultra fine razor sharp edge may be great but it doesn't last long under normal use.
I sharpen to get my tools working sharp, not to shave hair off my arm.

[Rob Luter]

Shapton 16000 followed by a few swipes on a horse butt strop charged with a scant bit of Flexcut Gold Strop Compound.

[chris carter]

DMT 300 -> DMT 1000 -> strop with green compound.

I never go back to the DMT plates unless there’s damage or I feel the need to correct my bevel.

[Jim Koepke]

One of my books on carving suggest if a gouge is sharp it can make a clean cut across grain.

For a standard chisel the test is taking a clean shaving across end grain.

For me it is usually not a problem to get to this level of sharpness.

jtk

[chuck van dyck]

What're we doin'? Paring work or scraping a board? I'll go to 14k shapton with some of my favorite chisels and marking knife, 6k king on most planes, blue honing paddle on my turning tools(mostly), 1200 dmt on my card scrapers. XXF dmt on everything would be nice though :-)

Someone made that argument of "that fine of an edge dulls quickly yada yada". Well those cuts while the edge holds rock, and it only takes a few strokes to get back there. When ya need it, ya need it. Paring end grain without spelching is a sweet thing.

[Jim Koepke]

Forgot about the turning tools… Often they are only worked up to a hard ark sometime they are used off of a much coarser abrasive.

Years ago there was something going around about someone asking Frank Klausz about what angle he honed his chisels. His reply was that he honed them to sharp.

jtk

[Jason Buresh]

I have a Norton double sided India stone (coarse/fine) and a leather strip with green compound.

Most of my tools are vintage, so this is sufficient.

[Daniel Culotta]

Fine India if it needs more than a touch-up, some old unknown Ark that's finer than the India (I usually go straight to this), strop with green compound, back to work. When I do bother to test, this progression gets an edge that can pop hairs off my arm, and takes a minute or so if the edge isn't damaged.

[Robert Engel]

16K on both chisels and plane irons.

[Edward Weber]

Someone made that argument of "that fine of an edge dulls quickly yada yada".

It's called science, not yada yada
If you're good with sharpening to that high of a degree, good for you.
You just can't escape the scientific fact that when you use a tool it dulls. the sharper it starts out, the more quickly it begins the process.

Also every alloy creates a different cutting edge, you can't just lump everything into the same box. There are just too many variables

YMMV

[Warren Mickley]

It's called science, not yada yada
If you're good with sharpening to that high of a degree, good for you.
You just can't escape the scientific fact that when you use a tool it dulls. the sharper it starts out, the more quickly it begins the process.

Also every alloy creates a different cutting edge, you can't just lump everything into the same box. There are just too many variables

YMMV

When making half blind carcass dovetails, I usually sharpen after each corner (about 10 sockets) because I like the tool in nice shape. However one time I kept going and chopped out 40 sockets without sharpening. After that the chisel still cut end grain pine very nicely. So it would have been judged by many as still sharp.

Part of the art of sharpening is producing an edge that is durable, not just one that passes some sharpness test before doing any work.

[Jim Koepke]

It's called science, not yada yada
If you're good with sharpening to that high of a degree, good for you.
You just can't escape the scientific fact that when you use a tool it dulls. the sharper it starts out, the more quickly it begins the process.

Also every alloy creates a different cutting edge, you can't just lump everything into the same box. There are just too many variables

YMMV


When making half blind carcass dovetails, I usually sharpen after each corner (about 10 sockets) because I like the tool in nice shape. However one time I kept going and chopped out 40 sockets without sharpening. After that the chisel still cut end grain pine very nicely. So it would have been judged by many as still sharp.

Part of the art of sharpening is producing an edge that is durable, not just one that passes some sharpness test before doing any work.

In my sharpening the edge is sharpened for the purpose for which the edge will be used. My paring chisels are seldom used for chopping though my chopping chisels might be used for paring if a paring chisel isn't close at hand.

Most of the time my paring chisels may need a little touch up during use, no big deal.

jtk

[chuck van dyck]

It's called science, not yada yada
If you're good with sharpening to that high of a degree, good for you.
You just can't escape the scientific fact that when you use a tool it dulls. the sharper it starts out, the more quickly it begins the process.

Also every alloy creates a different cutting edge, you can't just lump everything into the same box. There are just too many variables

YMMV

No one is arguing the fact that it dulls quickly. I’m arguing that it can be worth it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

To each his own my friend.

[James Pallas]

For chisels, hollow grind if needed, xxfine diamond and strop. I give them a few rubs on the strop before use and a few after or during use. Plane blades the same except sigma stones if needed. To me the strop is key. It’s more a mindless thing, I just do it out of habit. If the tool doesn’t perform when put to work I then investigate. Most of the time things go well for me. I very seldom go to the grinder.
Jim

[Jason White]

I polish the micro-bevel on a 16000 Shapton stone per Rob Cosman's 32-second method.


After reading the many informative responses in the other sharpening thread currently going on, I'm curious: What fineness of stone/film/grit do you sharpen to? I usually go to DMT extra-extra-fine (3 micron/8000 grit), unless it's a roughing plane like my scrub, in which case I might stop at extra-fine. I'm generally happy with the performance of my tools at the 3 micron level, so I'm curious whether people who go beyond that notice a difference in performance.

[Luke Dupont]

I sharpen everything to the highest level I can; a refined edge is a more durable edge as well as being more pleasant to use. I previously sharpened only as far as I deemed necessary for a task, erroneously trying to save time. Then, a while back, Tom King pointed out to me that there’s no such thing as “too sharp” in a woodworking tool, and after testing his assertion myself I believe he’s correct. For what is now only a little extra effort I get more (and more pleasant) use out of a tool before resharpening, even though I resharpen earlier in the wear cycle than I used to. Part of this is certainly technique and part of it is the more refined edge to start.

Depending on the steel, I go to either a Sigma Power 13k or a Dan’s hard black Arkansas stone. Depending on the tool, I then either lightly use a buffing wheel charged with Formax green compound or a piece of flat (planed) hardwood charged with Autosol as a strop. I most often use the buffer much less aggressively than for David Weaver’s “unicorn method” but I have experimented with that as well.

I originally purchased my Arkansas stones because I wanted to have something better than diamonds and more appropriate than waterstones for my carving tools (which can quickly leave a rut in a waterstone if you’re not careful to use the full face of the stone-DAMHIKT), but as I gain more experience with them I find that I am starting to prefer oil stones for most steels.


I remembered this post the last few days, and I've been touching up my chisels a lot more often.

It definitely helps and makes for a more enjoyable woodworking experience.

I find that, because tools dull slowly, they can get really dull before I notice. Touch them up, and it's night and day.

I don't know, I've been out of the swing of woodworking for quite a number of years now, so maybe I was already doing that before? Not sure anymore.

But anyway, this is why simplicity is so important I feel. If you have a method that is simple and requires very little prep and complication, you can just hit the stone for a few minutes and get back to work with very little interruption. And if you don't let it get super dull, you typically have less work to do anyway.

Planes are annoying because you have to reset them, though.

[Edward Weber]

No one is arguing the fact that it dulls quickly. I’m arguing that it can be worth it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

To each his own my friend.


If you read my posts, I'm not arguing either.
I simply tried to point out something that some overlook. I also mention that, at times, it can be worth the effort.

[Jim Koepke]

I remembered this post the last few days, and I've been touching up my chisels a lot more often.

It definitely helps and makes for a more enjoyable woodworking experience.

I find that, because tools dull slowly, they can get really dull before I notice. Touch them up, and it's night and day.

This is also my experience. It is easier to touch up the edge often instead of going on with a tool as it becomes duller and duller with each stroke.

This bugged me about some of the premium plane blades at first. The wear pattern wasn't obvious and then it was a lot more work to reestablish a flat bevel. Now it has become second nature to test the blade during use to check on how dull it has become.

A little sharpening often seems better than having to stop and spending a lot of time to set up for a secondary bevel or regrinding.

jtk

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Diamond stones were my go to for a while but I got annoyed with them for a few reasons:
1) they wear out quickly
2) I couldn't find a liquid to float particles off of them that worked well, and didn't want to buy some specialized product to do so. Neither oil nor water work well on them.
3) they don't "feel" good when in use
4) they leave really deep, coarse scratch patterns, and hence a much coarser finished edge that isn't so nice as a finishing stone, and not so easy to refine on other types of stones within a progression. An india or especially a natural stone will cut much shallower scratches and leave a surface that is both much finer, and much easier to refine in a progression.


If you are going to use water, add a few drops of dish washing liquid; I use Dawn. I usually use Smith's Honing Solution but have also been happy with Gatco. A little goes a long way, but I like the feel of these (usually Smith's for me). I have never tried Trend.

I think that others like simple green on their diamond stones; I have never tried it.

BTW, you had lots of nice information in your post, thank you!

[Edward Weber]

I don't recall who mentioned it in all the various threads about sharpening but,
No matter what method you use or what micron or grit level you want to achieve, make a dedicated sharpening station.
If the sharpening supplies are readily available to use, most people are more apt to do it more often. If all the supplies are in a drawer or cabinet out of sight, the tool tends to go longer in between sharpening.
I use a granite surface plate which is not overly heavy but at 26 lbs you don't want to have to lug it out each time you need to touch up a tool. If it's out sitting on a cabinet ready to go, it's a different story
Just a suggestion

[Tom Bender]

Trouble with a dedicated sharpening station is the prime real estate it needs. Not an option in my 250 sq ft shop

And can you really leave the water stones in water for years?

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Trouble with a dedicated sharpening station is the prime real estate it needs. Not an option in my 250 sq ft shop

And can you really leave the water stones in water for years?

I think it depends on the binder, it is one of the reasons why I use shapton stones that are spray and go.

I also don't have room to just leave all my sharpening equipment out.

[Jim Koepke]

Trouble with a dedicated sharpening station is the prime real estate it needs. Not an option in my 250 sq ft shop

And can you really leave the water stones in water for years?

My stones, mostly Norton and a King, seem to have no problem with being left in the water.

jtk

[Erich Weidner]

No matter what method you use or what micron or grit level you want to achieve, make a dedicated sharpening station.
If the sharpening supplies are readily available to use, most people are more apt to do it more often.

This is the truth. My workshop is half of my 2 car garage... floor space is at a premium. But every time I need to touch something up I lament the lack of a sharpening station. I have a little stand I built between the water softener and sink. But it is too flimsy for sharpening. (And it gets used a lot for non wood working things in conjunction with the sink).

But I'm going to try to find a minimalist space near the sink to make this happen. May cut into my scrap wood storage "area". But probably worth it.

[Jim Koepke]

But I'm going to try to find a minimalist space near the sink to make this happen.

Erich, do you use water stones?

If so could you make a small table to go over the sink to hold your equipment and a shelf to stow it?

jtk

[Eric Rathhaus]

I've found oil stones a great option to reduce the need for dedicated sharpening station. Once you have your 2 or three stones in boxes, you can pull them out and sharpen almost anywhere with a bit of oil.

[steven c newman]

1500 grit, then the unicorn....back of the iron is flat...test drive on a slab of Ash...
467468
I think that will do for me....slab is glass smooth, now.
467469
Black arrow was done on the computer, to show grain direction. Plane is a Type 11 Stanley No.4

[Rafael Herrera]

I've found oil stones a great option to reduce the need for dedicated sharpening station. Once you have your 2 or three stones in boxes, you can pull them out and sharpen almost anywhere with a bit of oil.
I've also found that a couple of oilstones and strop are almost always all I need to get a chisel or iron honed, right on the bench.

[Luke Dupont]

This is the truth. My workshop is half of my 2 car garage... floor space is at a premium. But every time I need to touch something up I lament the lack of a sharpening station. I have a little stand I built between the water softener and sink. But it is too flimsy for sharpening. (And it gets used a lot for non wood working things in conjunction with the sink).

But I'm going to try to find a minimalist space near the sink to make this happen. May cut into my scrap wood storage "area". But probably worth it.

Another reason for my settling on oilstones...

My sharpening station has always been a few stones that come out of the drawer, plop on top of the workbench, and go straight to sharpening with a few drops of light mineral oil. Oil so light is neither messy nor annoying to use.

Jnats and splash and go waterstones are almost as good, but still messier than oil and want for a sink nearby... but a sink is not strictly necessary when using them, at least.

Edit: Oh hey, I see several other people also made this observation.

[Charles Guest]

Another reason for my settling on oilstones...

My sharpening station has always been a few stones that come out of the drawer, plop on top of the workbench, and go straight to sharpening with a few drops of light mineral oil. Oil so light is neither messy nor annoying to use.

Jnats and splash and go waterstones are almost as good, but still messier than oil and want for a sink nearby... but a sink is not strictly necessary when using them, at least.

Edit: Oh hey, I see several other people also made this observation.


Keep a box of very fine poplar shavings around. After honing with your oilstones, grab a handful and scrub your hands and fingertips down with the shavings. Cleans better than soap and water. You'll never get an oily smudge on a project again, I guarantee it.

[Luke Dupont]

Keep a box of very fine poplar shavings around. After honing with your oilstones, grab a handful and scrub your hands and fingertips down with the shavings. Cleans better than soap and water. You'll never get an oily smudge on a project again, I guarantee it.

I usually keep paper towels handy, but I'll have to try that!