Does CerMark go bad?

[Brent Franker]

Hello!

I don't use my laser all that often but wanted to make some stainless koozies the other day. They came out like garbage when I've had really good luck with this product in the past on the same koozies??? Just wondering if this stuff happens to go bad or if you might know why the results came out the way they did? Thanks!!!

Here's a Google photo of what I'm talking about. Thank you again!

https://photos.app.goo.gl/SuoS4qPB5fu3j5Vc8

[Bert Kemp]

Could you please post your photos here and not link to another site, thanks

[Bruce Volden]

I'm still using CERDEC I bought about 20 years ago!!
Haven't used CERMARK but I assume they are the same.

Bruce

[Brent Franker]

Could you please post your photos here and not link to another site, thanks

Sorry about that. For some reason I must have got this site confused with a different one and thought I wasn't allowed to post actual pics anymore. Sorry again! Here is the linked picture...

466526

[Brent Franker]

I'm still using CERDEC I bought about 20 years ago!!
Haven't used CERMARK but I assume they are the same.

Bruce

Hmmm... gotcha. Just weird. Not sure what happened then. I tried to make 2 of them and they both came out pretty darn bad!

[Kev Williams]

Which Cermark you using? LM6000? (it's all I've ever used, save for wasting my money on that Ultra crap)

Doesn't go bad, I still have about four 20+ year old 'empty' spray cans of the stuff, when I have time I cut them open to get out the what's still in them. Mix with denatured alcohol until the thickness is right and go--

What will cause the results you got:

- Not enough power... a dirty lens or mirror, or a mirror(s) out of alignment a bit is all that's needed to absorb enough laser energy to make a weak mark...

- engraving too fast...

- Mix too thin- or too thick for that matter...

- Not in good focus...

- Laser not 'putting out' like it used to...

FWIW almost EVERY time I've run into a weak mark like yours, a dirty lens or mirror was the culprit--

[Brent Franker]

Which Cermark you using? LM6000? (it's all I've ever used, save for wasting my money on that Ultra crap)

Doesn't go bad, I still have about four 20+ year old 'empty' spray cans of the stuff, when I have time I cut them open to get out the what's still in them. Mix with denatured alcohol until the thickness is right and go--

What will cause the results you got:

- Not enough power... a dirty lens or mirror, or a mirror(s) out of alignment a bit is all that's needed to absorb enough laser energy to make a weak mark...

- engraving too fast...

- Mix too thin- or too thick for that matter...

- Not in good focus...

- Laser not 'putting out' like it used to...

FWIW almost EVERY time I've run into a weak mark like yours, a dirty lens or mirror was the culprit--

Thanks! That gives me something to start with so thanks very much!

I ended up engraving on some powder coated Koozies I had and they came out very good with crisp lines and details was good.

I was using the Cermark LMM-6000. I had made a number of stainless tumblers with this using 50% speed and 100% power with my Epilog 75 watt laser and it worked good and that's the settings I used here. I'll do some testing with different speeds and see if that might be it. I have noticed that it seems like the laser wasn't performing as well when I was cutting through some thin plywood so maybe you're onto something with a dirty lens or mirror. I had the tube refilled probably 6 years ago (maybe more?) but I don't use it hardly at all. I'll take some time and work on re-aligning the laser. The red dot has been off forever so will give me a chance to get that fixed.

Was kinda hoping it might have been the Cermark but sounds like that stuff doesn't go bad so must be something with the laser. Ugh. Oh well. Fun fun. LOL Thanks again for the suggestions!

[John Lifer]

I've a 250ml bottle of 6000 that I've had now going on 3 years. One thing I've found is that it will settle and clump up. I have a 6" piece of rod with a hook on the end that goes in a cordless drill that I use to mix. I only have to do when it sits for a month or longer between uses. I usually can shake up and paint on with foam brush. I did 30 plates Friday and they came out fine.

[Brent Franker]

I've a 250ml bottle of 6000 that I've had now going on 3 years. One thing I've found is that it will settle and clump up. I have a 6" piece of rod with a hook on the end that goes in a cordless drill that I use to mix. I only have to do when it sits for a month or longer between uses. I usually can shake up and paint on with foam brush. I did 30 plates Friday and they came out fine.

Mine is in a spray can but did have some issues with the nozzle clogging. I shook it good but maybe I didn't shake it good enough. I'll have to build something too to shake my cans up better than I can do it by hand :)

[Kev Williams]

If you're using from a spray can that's been sitting for awhile, the solids in the mix can separate from the alcohol enough that it could take a half hour or more it all to mix up. When I cut open cans to get the last bit out, it literally takes a screwdriver to dig out all the hardened Cermark-- It's a good bet your bad results are simply because the mix you got out of the can was severely on the weak side!

FWIW the clumping problem isn't just confined to cans (I haven't bought a spray can of the stuff in like 12 years!), my own bottled mixes do the same thing. I put screws and nuts in the bottle as mixers, and if the bottle has sat for some time, just shaking it won't loosen the mixers from the mud...

[Mike Null]

I haven't bought a spray can in years. I buy the 500 gram bottles and I use a ground down spade bit in my cordless drill to mix.

[Brent Franker]

If you're using from a spray can that's been sitting for awhile, the solids in the mix can separate from the alcohol enough that it could take a half hour or more it all to mix up. When I cut open cans to get the last bit out, it literally takes a screwdriver to dig out all the hardened Cermark-- It's a good bet your bad results are simply because the mix you got out of the can was severely on the weak side!

FWIW the clumping problem isn't just confined to cans (I haven't bought a spray can of the stuff in like 12 years!), my own bottled mixes do the same thing. I put screws and nuts in the bottle as mixers, and if the bottle has sat for some time, just shaking it won't loosen the mixers from the mud...

Wow. Ok, if the Cermark gets THAT HARD in the bottom then that could definitely be my problem because I only shook it for a minute or two like you would a can of spray paint. It took a bit to get the ball broke loose and then when it started rattling I shook for another couple minutes maybe. The can is nearly empty too.

When you guys cut open these cans how do you do it safely and then how do you keep it sealed afterwards? Thanks for the tips!

[Brent Franker]

I haven't bought a spray can in years. I buy the 500 gram bottles and I use a ground down spade bit in my cordless drill to mix.

This will probably be the last spray one I buy. I'll try what you are saying.

I bought some stuff on eBay years ago for under $10 and it was FANTASTIC. It left a super black mark and years and years later the tumblers I made still look fantastic. It came in a powder form. I searched for the company who made it but they evidently went out of business because I couldn't find anything. I've tried the dry moly but it seems like it takes a whole lot more power and it is way harder to clean off the tumblers. I know people on here swear by the dry moly but I haven't evidently found the right stuff or figured out the process yet.

[Kev Williams]

I've never gotten any of the moly I've tried to do a thing other than make a mess ;)

how I open cans-- First, I just take something like a sharp ice pick and poke a teeny hole at the very top to let the pressure escape. After that, I put the can in a vice-- I find something to prop it up with so when tightened in the clamp I'll be cutting- with a hacksaw, about 3" above the bottom. As you can imagine you can't tighten the can very hard, so I hold the top of the can as best I can with my left hand while sawing with my right.

As for a container, Cermark bottles are VERY airtight, I've never thrown one away. But any plastic jar that will be reasonably airtight with the lid on will work, worst case is thinning it out again if it thickens up!

Viscosity-- Mike says 'consistency of 2% milk" works for him, myself I lean more towards 'chocolate milk' ;)

Cheap foam brushes are my best way of brushing it on. Keep jar, half-pint or so, about 1/2 full with denatured alcohol, use this to clean the brush afterward. When the brush wears out, give it a good rinse with the DNA, then squeeze it as dry as possible. AND, use your brush cleaner DNA for thinning future batches. Zero waste. Which is a good thing for something that costs $28 per ounce! :D

[Mike Null]

Oh yeah on the foam brushes!! Cheap and efficient. The only time I use my airbrush is on a large label job where I'm doing 1" x 3" ss asset labels etc.

[Brent Franker]

I've never gotten any of the moly I've tried to do a thing other than make a mess ;)

how I open cans-- First, I just take something like a sharp ice pick and poke a teeny hole at the very top to let the pressure escape. After that, I put the can in a vice-- I find something to prop it up with so when tightened in the clamp I'll be cutting- with a hacksaw, about 3" above the bottom. As you can imagine you can't tighten the can very hard, so I hold the top of the can as best I can with my left hand while sawing with my right.

As for a container, Cermark bottles are VERY airtight, I've never thrown one away. But any plastic jar that will be reasonably airtight with the lid on will work, worst case is thinning it out again if it thickens up!

Viscosity-- Mike says 'consistency of 2% milk" works for him, myself I lean more towards 'chocolate milk' ;)

Cheap foam brushes are my best way of brushing it on. Keep jar, half-pint or so, about 1/2 full with denatured alcohol, use this to clean the brush afterward. When the brush wears out, give it a good rinse with the DNA, then squeeze it as dry as possible. AND, use your brush cleaner DNA for thinning future batches. Zero waste. Which is a good thing for something that costs $28 per ounce! :D

Awesome! Thanks for all the info. I'll give up on the spray can and open it up and use the foam brush to use up the rest of it.

Thanks much again and have a great day! :)

[Kev Williams]

I'm in the middle of stirring my 1000gm bottle of 6000 that's been sitting on the shelf untouched for about 2 months-
-This is it, along with some of my many 500gm empties, most have DNA in them-
466726

This is how I mix mine, it's an orbital shaker I got on eBay for like $85-
works well, and I've run it 15+ hours straight MANY times since I've had it-
right now it's running at 140 'orbits' per minute, which sloshes it around nicely.
466727

Before I put the bottle on the shaker I shook it myself for about a minute and a half.
It had been shaking at least 15 minutes before I checked it, this is what I found-
466728
-a clump of mud at least an inch and a half in diameter!
--that's when I grabbed the camera to take these pics :)

Once it's fully liquid, I'll mix it 2 parts DNA to 1 part Cermark, which is usually pretty close for me for brushing--

This stuff takes patience to be sure!

[Bert Kemp]

Has anyone tried this stuff and if so what were the results?
Liquid Ready Laser Marking Powder-"Brilliance Laser Inks" -BLI101MBLIQ120- Black Laser Ink for Metals Marking with CO2/Fiber/YAG (120 ml, Black)

[Brent Franker]

I'm in the middle of stirring my 1000gm bottle of 6000 that's been sitting on the shelf untouched for about 2 months-
-This is it, along with some of my many 500gm empties, most have DNA in them-
466726

This is how I mix mine, it's an orbital shaker I got on eBay for like $85-
works well, and I've run it 15+ hours straight MANY times since I've had it-
right now it's running at 140 'orbits' per minute, which sloshes it around nicely.
466727

Before I put the bottle on the shaker I shook it myself for about a minute and a half.
It had been shaking at least 15 minutes before I checked it, this is what I found-
466728
-a clump of mud at least an inch and a half in diameter!
--that's when I grabbed the camera to take these pics :)

Once it's fully liquid, I'll mix it 2 parts DNA to 1 part Cermark, which is usually pretty close for me for brushing--

This stuff takes patience to be sure!

Wow, that's nuts! I cracked up at the blurry photo on the shaker :)

When you say you mix it to 2 parts DNA to 1 part Cermark do you take some Cermark out of the original container and mix it or do you put about double denatured alcohol, as compared to Cermark, in the original Cermark bottle then mix it up again?

Thanks for all the help. This stuff is expensive and trying to learn the best methods. LOL

[Kev Williams]

WHEN REMOVING CERMARK FROM A CAN, because it could be all mud or pretty close to okay-as-is, you'll need to add DNA in little bits until you get a good consistency...

One way to test, with a stainless Yeti or similar-- if you run a brush across the radius, about 2", the edges should run. How fast is the key; if it doesn't run hardly at all or runs slowly and then sets up before it gets very far, probably too thick- If it runs quickly and nearly all the way around, probably too thin. Getting a 2" stroke that takes a few seconds to run halfway around and beyond, you're real close :)

I should point out about foam brushing, I put submerge the brush, then spin it with my fingers to stir the mix, then raise the brush above the mix, and spin a couple more times so the brush just barely drips- I pull the brush out, point it UP to let the mix get into the brush good, then start brushing. A good mix will flow nicely, and a 1" brush loaded right will cover *about* an 8 x 10" SS plate before needing to reload...

I just remembered the cermarking videos I made a few years ago, this might help. Notice how much surface area I can cover with one brushload...
The first vid is when I used to use a tiny tupperware container for on-the-fly jobs, they gob up with mud way too fast ;) - since then, straight from a Cermark container...

--sorry about the sound, the machines drown me out!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7gp5Mtk6Oo

(2nd vid next post)

[Kev Williams]

2nd cermarking vid-- 4 plates, 9-1/2" x 7-1/2" each--


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6S5ILxjYas

[Brent Franker]

2nd cermarking vid-- 4 plates, 9-1/2" x 7-1/2" each--



Just wanted to say thanks for all the suggestions and info! I haven't yet had a need to fire my laser back up and do some Cermark work but when I do I'll be sure to let all know what the problem was and if it was, in fact, that my Cermark wasn't mixed well enough as I think that's likely what the problem was! :)