House Windows

[Mike Goetzke]

I need to replace three upstairs windows that have RO of 71" wide x 39-1/2" high. My current windows are two pane sliding windows and both panels can slide.

Looking at replacements (Andersen at HD):

1) I can find sliding windows for just under $600 each but seems only one panel slides.
2) There are casement available in either two or three casements or two casements and a picture window in the middle. These are about $1300 each.

Some say the casements seal better but we never really had any issues with the sliding. Any help choosing window type appreciated.

(also, seems to be 16-18 week wait time on the windows)

Thanks
Mike

[Tom M King]

The Pella casement windows we have in our house, that I built in 1980, still work flawlessly-every one of them. I haven't built a new house since 2007, so have no advice to offer on what's available now.

[Andrew Seemann]

I just put in some vinyl Jeld-Wen casements and sliders, via Menards. They seem too work just fine. I don't know that the casements are particularly better than the sliders; they both seem to seal well. Definitely better than the 45 year old wood windows that they replaced. I've had Jeld-Wen sliders on my shop for the last 10 years with no issues. It seems Jeld-Wen's lead time was around 2-3 months last I checked.

[Paul F Franklin]

Casements tend to seal better over time because the seals are under compression everywhere, and the seal only gets tighter when the wind blows. On sliders the only seal under compression is along one stile; the others are sliding seals. But with modern materials, even the sliding seals are better than on old windows and if you don't open and close them often, the seals don't wear out quickly. You can compare air leakage ratings to get an idea how the two styles compare; just keep in mind that the seals on a slider tend to degrade more with wear than those on a slider.

With Casements, you need clearance where they open; sliders don't. Casements have the potential to allow more air movement because the entire window opens, on a slider only half the total area can ever be open. This may also be a factor if your window needs to meet the egress standards.

[Brian Elfert]

What Paul said. Sliding windows are mostly used because they are cheap. To me, casements are all around a better window than sliding windows. My current house had sliding windows that were rotten when I bought the house. I had the windows replaced with Andersen 400 series casement windows before I moved in.

My first house the builder put an Andersen 400 series gliding window in the basement for egress. (Andersen calls them gliding windows, not sliding.) That sliding window was actually pretty decent as Andersen uses a good latching system on the 400 series. Your typical builder's grade vinyl sliding window is nowhere near the quality of that Andersen sliding window. If I was going to spend the money on Andersen 400 series sliding windows I would just upgrade to casements.

[Gary Ragatz]

We replaced a bunch of 1960's vintage sliders with Peachtree casement windows about 30 years ago. When we left that home 5 years ago, all were still working well and the seals were still good. They definitely sealed better than the old sliders, but the old sliders were nothing special to start with.

One other advantage of casement windows, particularly on a second floor, is that you can wash both sides of the window from inside.

[Jerome Stanek]

I replaced my sliders with Jeldwen casements and they are much better. I do have a Anderson casement in the living room

[Lee Schierer]

I have three side sliding windows in my home that were made by Great Lakes Windows (https://greatlakeswindow.com/) that both sides of the window can slide. They still offer that type of window.

[Alan Rutherford]

All our opening windows upstairs are casements and I guess they're OK but they have their quirks. I don't know what brand we have. The house was was built with no shortcuts but is not luxurious.

To close the casements tightly by closing the latch, we usually must remove the screen and pull the window shut. The crank won't quite do it.

The screens are on the inside.

You can't put an air conditioner in one of the windows.

The bottom of the opening is fragile because it is hollowed out for the crank. If it's the window you crawl through to get onto part of the roof it's easy to break it. On the plus side, the opening is higher than double-hung would be but it's narrower.

The windows can be removed and brought into the house for cleaning or repair, but it's not easy. Maybe if I were younger....

If covering up your windows for hurricanes is an issue, you can't open the window to install anything because it protrudes out.

I'd rather have single- or double-hung.

[Brian Elfert]

Sure, you can't put a window air conditioner in a casement window, but most houses old enough to need window air conditioners also tend not to have casement windows. Even here in Minneapolis central A/C has been installed in the majority of new houses since the late 1970s. I suspect the only new houses built in this area since 1990 without central A/C were really, really cheap starter houses, or the buyer of the new house specifically requested no air conditioning.

Most homeowners aren't using windows to get out on the roof often enough to worry about breaking the window.

[Ron Citerone]

My friend is a builder and installed double hung windows in one part of my house and sliding windows in the back room overlooking the marsh. Both are Anderson new construction windows. The sliders look good in the back room, but I think the double hung seem much more rock solid.

[Jerome Stanek]

1 nice thing about casements is that you can open them to catch a breeze like the old vent windows on cars

[Alan Rutherford]

Sure, you can't put a window air conditioner in a casement window, but most houses old enough to need window air conditioners also tend not to have casement windows. Even here in Minneapolis central A/C has been installed in the majority of new houses since the late 1970s. I suspect the only new houses built in this area since 1990 without central A/C were really, really cheap starter houses, or the buyer of the new house specifically requested no air conditioning.

Most homeowners aren't using windows to get out on the roof often enough to worry about breaking the window.

I can't argue with either of those statements and our house and our location (Florida) are probably very different from the OP's. Just my experience. The window AC is what you use when the power goes out and you run an extension cord from the generator to power it because you don't have whole-house backup power. You also install one if you are concerned that someone might acquire a disease that makes it unwise to be spreading the air from one bedroom through the rest of the house. And I did install the AC butI had to remove the window.

Another gripe I didn't mention is that in swinging that window out into the breeze you are also exposing it to the the rain and the upper corner deteriorates faster than the rest of the window. The outside surface is covered with house paint but the inside is natural wood with a beautiful clear finish that's easily damaged and hard to repair.

[Rich Engelhardt]

I suspect the only new houses built in this area since 1990 without central A/C were really, really cheap starter houses, or the buyer of the new house specifically requested no air conditioning.
We are building a new house.
I wish we could leave out the central air, but we can't.

Things like appliances and central air are items that should never be included in the mortgage. You'll end up paying for them for years after they have gone bad.

[Brian Elfert]

We are building a new house.
I wish we could leave out the central air, but we can't.

Things like appliances and central air are items that should never be included in the mortgage. You'll end up paying for them for years after they have gone bad.

Why can't you leave out the central air? If you don't want the central air and appliances covered by the mortgage can't you just increase the down payment by the cost of the central air and appliances?

[Mike Goetzke]

Thanks for all the replies.

One other question for casement users. My RO can support two casements or two casements and a center picture window. If I purchased the casements I'm sort of favoring the two casements so it brings up the question - do you put the hinge on the left/right or center (I have seen both)?

Also, I saw it mentioned that casements allow you to wash both sides of the window. How is this done? With my current sliders I can easily lift the windows up and out to clean them.

[Paul F Franklin]

Hinge placement is your choice; I prefer them on left/right as it leaves the view out the center of the window less obstructed when the sides are open. OTOH, if the view to the sides is "better" than you might want to hinge them in the center. I suppose there might be a slight impact on ventilation if you have prevailing winds from one side or the other, but I doubt it makes much difference.

As to cleaning them from the inside, most casements can be easily disconnected from the operator arm. Then, because of the way the hinges on the door slide in little tracks, you can either just slide the window toward the center a few inches and reach out the gap to clean the outside of the window in place, or you can slide the windows completely out of the little tracks and bring them inside to clean. This is a bit tricky on large windows because of the weight though. You'll want to check this out on the specific brand you are interested in if cleaning from the inside is important to you.

[Gary Ragatz]

Also, I saw it mentioned that casements allow you to wash both sides of the window. How is this done? With my current sliders I can easily lift the windows up and out to clean them.

Mike - I mentioned that. Maybe others did, too. On the casement windows we had in our old home, I could remove the (inside) screen, crank the window full open, and there was enough space on the hinge side for me to reach through and clean the outside surface of the window. No disassembly required.

[Lee DeRaud]

Things like appliances and central air are items that should never be included in the mortgage. You'll end up paying for them for years after they have gone bad.You could probably say the same thing about paint and flooring, but I've never heard of anyone complaining about them being included in the purchase price.

[Rich Engelhardt]

You could probably say the same thing about paint and flooring, but I've never heard of anyone complaining about them being included in the purchase price.For real? You never heard of this? This is something just about every "penny pincher" - financial tip type advisor suggests & yes - they also include a lot of the specialty items - like types of flooring when applicable.


Why can't you leave out the central air? If you don't want the central air and appliances covered by the mortgage can't you just increase the down payment by the cost of the central air and appliances?Now that is something I never heard of. Telling the bank the items your downpayment is going to be applied towards.
Is that even possible?

[Lee DeRaud]

Now that is something I never heard of. Telling the bank the items your downpayment is going to be applied towards.
Is that even possible?No one is suggesting that. Your objection seems to be against financing things like flooring/paint/appliances/AC over 20-30 years. Fine, then don't: pay for them now by increasing the down payment (i.e. reducing the mortgage) by that amount. There's nothing magic about it, you either spend the money now on the down payment or you spend it later when you install those items. Either way, you don't spend a penny of interest on it unless you want to.

[Bruce Wrenn]

We are building a new house.
I wish we could leave out the central air, but we can't.

Things like appliances and central air are items that should never be included in the mortgage. You'll end up paying for them for years after they have gone bad.Purchase them separately.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Purchase them separately.That is exactly what I'm suggesting. I have no clue what this putting it in the down payment stuff is all about.
When we bought our present house back in 1986, the builder asked if we wanted central air. We told them no, don't add it to the build. After the house was built, we had the air installed.

I fail to see how increasing the down payment made to the bank will do this?

[Lee DeRaud]

That is exactly what I'm suggesting. I have no clue what this putting it in the down payment stuff is all about.
When we bought our present house back in 1986, the builder asked if we wanted central air. We told them no, don't add it to the build. After the house was built, we had the air installed.

I fail to see how increasing the down payment made to the bank will do this?Ok, one more time...
It's highly probable that the cost of the AC when you bought it later was about the same as the increase in the purchase price from letting the builder do it. If the down payment is increased by that amount, the cost of the AC is not financed, it's effectively paid with cash, same as installing it later. The financed amount is the same in both cases, as is the amount of interest paid. I can't make it any simpler than that.

(And installing later is probably more expensive anyway, since things like running the electrical/refrigerant lines and installing the evaporator coil are much easier during construction than after you move in. Not to mention that you have AC from day 1, which can be very handy if you're moving in during the middle of the summer.)

[Rich Engelhardt]

It's highly probable that the cost of the AC when you bought it later was about the same as the increase in the purchase price from letting the builder do it.No - I don't recall the exact figures as it was 35 years ago. I do recall it was more through the builder though since they added their cut to the price.

As far as prices for today go - we have a total of 7 properties & we deal with one Heating/Cooling company for 6 of them. John gives us the best possible price for both installation and equipment. I know what i get from him is the best possible equipment & at a price that other places can't or won't match for that level of equipment.


If the down payment is increased by that amount, the cost of the AC is not financed, it's effectively paid with cash, same as installing it later. The financed amount is the same in both cases, as is the amount of interest paid. Ok - I'm still not seeing how that works out since - the downpayment is a lump figure & not broken down by item. Im just going to chalk it up to you seeing things one way & me seeing things the other way.

[Lee DeRaud]

Ok - I'm still not seeing how that works out since - the downpayment is a lump figure & not broken down by item. Im just going to chalk it up to you seeing things one way & me seeing things the other way.Look up the word "fungible". There's absolute nothing special about dollars in the down payment that makes them different from dollars spent later. The point you seem to be missing is that dollars added to the down payment reduce the size of the mortgage: it doesn't matter one bit whether they're spent on 2x6's or AC compressors.

[Lee DeRaud]

As far as prices for today go - we have a total of 7 properties & we deal with one Heating/Cooling company for 6 of them. John gives us the best possible price for both installation and equipment. I know what i get from him is the best possible equipment & at a price that other places can't or won't match for that level of equipment.I'm pretty sure your friend John charges quite a bit less in labor if he can install the electrical and refrigerant lines during the electrical/plumbing rough-in stage and install the evaporator coil at the same time as the air handler, rather than dealing with a completed house where those tasks are not as convenient.

[Brian Elfert]

I bought a property before selecting a builder. I also got my own construction loan. The small builder allowed me to do my own work like the electrical so long as I got a permit for the work. I probably could have selected my own HVAC company if I wanted. I ordered my own appliances and paid for them out of my pocket. My brother had a house built by a national builder. The contract he signed stated he could not do any of his own work on the house and it would trespassing if he went onto the site. The house and the lot still belonged to the builder until closing.

How would it work to install HVAC after closing? You can't go back and install duct work after the drywall is up and painted. A smaller local builder might be willing to use your HVAC guy and let you pay him directly. You may or may not save money, but you probably at least trust the guy. The builder may get a discount on HVAC if they do enough volume with the HVAC company.

Let's say HVAC is $25,000. So, you put an extra $25,000 down to avoid interest on that $25,000. It doesn't really matter what portion of the house that $25,000 actually pays for. In your mind the $25,000 is paying for the HVAC.