planning 1/4" veneer to face end grain

[Brian Runau]

Looking for suggestions on how to plane 1/4 veneer to face end grain on some legs for a project. I was thinking of using a previously planned board and after I joint one face and cut the veneer use double sided tape to stick it to this board and then run it through on the cut side. Thanks. Brian

[Mike King]

It's not clear what you are attempting to do, but there is a role for this:

https://lie-nielsen.imgix.net/default/no-4-smooth-plane-b.jpg

[glenn bradley]

When the amount required calls for it I typically joint a face and edges, resaw the "veneer" at the bandsaw and then plane to near thickness. For a few pieces I would hand plane. You can be done in the time it takes to setup the other method.

[Brian Runau]

When the amount required calls for it I typically joint a face and edges, resaw the "veneer" at the bandsaw and then plane to near thickness. For a few pieces I would hand plane. You can be done in the time it takes to setup the other method.


Glenn:

this is for a dresser leg.

I would also cut on the band saw after joining one edge, but putting a 5/16" piece through my planer, seems too thin so I was thinking stick it to a flat board and run it through the planner. thanks brian

[Brian Runau]

It's not clear what you are attempting to do, but there is a role for this:



Mike this is for a dresser leg so to long for me to do by hand. too lazy. brian

[Kevin Jenness]

If you are going to run end grain through the planer you need to have a solid backstop on your carrier board to prevent breakout. It would be safer to saw close to the final thickness and sand, ideally with a wide belt sander.

[Brian Runau]

If you are going to run end grain through the planer you need to have a solid backstop on your carrier board to prevent breakout. It would be safer to saw close to the final thickness and sand, ideally with a wide belt sander.


kevin, Not end grain through the planer. running 1/4" thick face grain through the planer to cover end grain on a leg glue up. thanks brian

[Jim Becker]

Carrier board as you note and very light cuts...preferably with a thicknesser that has rubber rollers rather than steel with "teeth".

Something to consider for future projects for legs is to use rift sawn material which has all four faces clean without veneering. This material can often be cut from the outside edges of thicker boards and then the center flat sawn section can be resawn for use where appropriate.

[Lee Schierer]

I've needed some thin veneer pieces from time to time. I attach the blank to a carrier board with double sided tape and run it through my Delta lunch box planer, taking light cuts. I recently needed some really thin Red Oak and I planed a piece that ended up 20" long 1/2" wide and 0.018" thick.

[Kevin Jenness]

kevin, Not end grain through the planer. running 1/4" thick face grain through the planer to cover end grain on a leg glue up. thanks brian

I see. I still would use a carrier board with a backstop. Some planers are better than others with thin material. A wide belt is most predictable for this task.

[Joe Jensen]

how about attaching a thicker piece of "veneer" and sawing thin once on the leg substrate?

[Richard Coers]

Not sure if you are aware that 1/4" wood acts like solid wood, and not like veneer. 1/4" will have the same seasonal movement as a piece of 3/4" thick wood. You didn't mention species. Something like hard maple can still blow up in a planer no matter what kind of backer or precautions. Walnut will have a very high survival rate. Look for some really straight grain material for you best chances.

[Brian Runau]

Not sure if you are aware that 1/4" wood acts like solid wood, and not like veneer. 1/4" will have the same seasonal movement as a piece of 3/4" thick wood. You didn't mention species. Something like hard maple can still blow up in a planer no matter what kind of backer or precautions. Walnut will have a very high survival rate. Look for some really straight grain material for you best chances.


Richard I'm working with quarter sawn white oak, I think I should be ok. thanks brian

[Brian Runau]

Carrier board as you note and very light cuts...preferably with a thicknesser that has rubber rollers rather than steel with "teeth".

Something to consider for future projects for legs is to use rift sawn material which has all four faces clean without veneering. This material can often be cut from the outside edges of thicker boards and then the center flat sawn section can be resawn for use where appropriate.


Jim feeling "thick as a brick" Jethro Tull reference. My leg is 1-3/4" finished square. Not sure how I would do this? thanks brian

[Jim Becker]

Jim feeling "thick as a brick" Jethro Tull reference. My leg is 1-3/4" finished square. Not sure how I would do this? thanks brian

'Probably can get what you need for this side of project if you carefully select your 8/4 stock for quality and insure that there is the rift at the edges wide enough for the job.

[Don Stephan]

Also not able to envisioin the finished product. On a table leg the end grain is against the floor and the underside of the tabletop. Suggestions might be more helpful if you could explain the materials you have and what the finished leg should be.

[Brian Runau]

Also not able to envisioin the finished product. On a table leg the end grain is against the floor and the underside of the tabletop. Suggestions might be more helpful if you could explain the materials you have and what the finished leg should be.
End grain was incorrect word choice

[Jim Becker]

Also not able to envisioin the finished product. On a table leg the end grain is against the floor and the underside of the tabletop. Suggestions might be more helpful if you could explain the materials you have and what the finished leg should be.
With QS material, two faces have somewhat "plain sawn" grain...which is what he's covering up with the veneer. It's a common technique to keep QS on all four faces.

[Richard Coers]

Richard I'm working with quarter sawn white oak, I think I should be ok. thanks brian
The wood leg movement can be an issue even if the thick veneer doesn't move. I still think 1/4" is too thick.

[Alan Schwabacher]

So it's not to be glued to end grain. Are you saying you plan to glue 1/4" thick quartersawn stock over the plainsawn faces of the legs to make all four faces look quartersawn?

If so, why not glue down the planed face of the 1/4" "veneer", and after it's dry, plane all four faces the same way?

[Brian Runau]

So it's not to be glued to end grain. Are you saying you plan to glue 1/4" thick quartersawn stock over the plainsawn faces of the legs to make all four faces look quartersawn?

If so, why not glue down the planed face of the 1/4" "veneer", and after it's dry, plane all four faces the same way?

That would work. I just am concerned how unevenly resaw thickness on the band saw is. I only have a small table topmodel. Brian

[Brian Runau]

'Probably can get what you need for this side of project if you carefully select your 8/4 stock for quality and insure that there is the rift at the edges wide enough for the job.


Only rif sawn I can get locally is 4/4. How do you think a glue joint would look on the rif sawn material, would it disappear or be obvious? thanks. brian

[Kevin Jenness]

Face glueing rift materal will show unless the figure is very straight. If you want an "invisible" joint, miter the skins or use thin enough material (1/16" or less) that the edge easing will mask the joint. If you are not after the quartersawn ray fleck (which requires the annual rings to be square to the surface), but want consistent straight figure on all the faces, the simplest method is to follow Jim Becker's advice. You don't need to buy riftsawn lumber as such; you can often slice the outer edges of plainsawn 8/4 material to yield rift figure in a square section.

Another trick if you want a riftsawn blank thicker than the stock available is to saw the corners off of a plainsawn plank at 45 degrees and glue the triangles together to form a square. A well-made glue joint will not be obvious at the corners.

I believe Fine Woodworking has covered the process of wrapping quartered material around a core for leg stock if you need more info.

[Jim Becker]

Only rif sawn I can get locally is 4/4. How do you think a glue joint would look on the rif sawn material, would it disappear or be obvious? thanks. brian

So the technique I'm suggesting doesn't mean you are buying material that's listed as rift sawn. You'd be carefully selecting wider flatsawn 8/4 boards that have rift grain visible at one or both edges, depending on the board. You use that edge material for leg stock and then use the remainder of the flatsawn material for general utility/secondary components, etc. It's a careful shopping exercise. :) :D

I first learned this technique from a project plan that was in Fine Woodworking many years ago. It was essentially a "one board" table project where said "one board" was a thick and wide piece of material. In that particular project the flat sawn was used for aprons and panels while the rift cut off the edges was used for the legs.

[Brian Runau]

So the technique I'm suggesting doesn't mean you are buying material that's listed as rift sawn. You'd be carefully selecting wider flatsawn 8/4 boards that have rift grain visible at one or both edges, depending on the board. You use that edge material for leg stock and then use the remainder of the flatsawn material for general utility/secondary components, etc. It's a careful shopping exercise. :) :D

I first learned this technique from a project plan that was in Fine Woodworking many years ago. It was essentially a "one board" table project where said "one board" was a thick and wide piece of material. In that particular project the flat sawn was used for aprons and panels while the rift cut off the edges was used for the legs.

let me repeat so I make sure I understand. Pick out 8/4 stock that shows rift sawn on one edge and make the leg out of this side of the board. The face grain and on the two sides, if you will, that come from the face should match and the opposite side that comes from the inside of the board should also be similar grain to match what you can see on the edge? Thanks brian

[Jim Becker]

Yes...break up the thick board to use it to best advantage. "Find" your components in your material...plan them out. One other thing: sometimes the best use of a board isn't something parallel to the original edge. Straight line rip to "correct" the orientation using a sled or slider and then pair out your component(s). Little things like this can take a great looking project and make it an extraordinary looking project.

I like rift for things like table legs because it eliminates the need to veneer a face like you are working to do. Rift looks great with QS figure near, IMHO, it's similar with less bold "rays"...often the simpler, but straight grain of the rift will highlight the more expressive QS grain on panels, etc., in a wonderful way since the total piece will not be "totally busy".

[Kevin Jenness]

Just look at the end grain of a fairly wide piece of 8/4. At the center of the piece the surface will be relatively close to tangential to the rings, while at the edges the rings will be closer to 45 degrees to the surface. If the rings are fairly close to being aligned longitudinally with the plank (little "grain runout") then you will see fairly consistent straight lines where the rings intersect the four surfaces of a square section ripped off the edge of the original plank. You can see the figure of three of your potential leg faces and will have to infer the fourth. The offcut remaining will typically show flatsawn "cathedrals" on the faces and rift figure on the edges.

Jim makes a good point about adjusting the direction of the workpiece edge, and you can also adjust the ring orientation to the faces by beveling one edge of an over-wide blank and squaring it up from that surface.

[Mel Fulks]

The old books say that when the material is 1/8th or more it is a “facing”. They also warn about going thicker, but with modern
temp control , glues ,and kiln drying, I doubt there will be any problem.