Ford Lightning

[Jack Frederick]

Having put $75 worth of gas in the pick-up yesterday and it being CA with likely the highest price gas in the US, I came home and looked at some U-tubes on Ford’s new electric PU. My needs are pretty modest from a hauling standpoint and I am really intrigued by this thing. With my solar system I can charge it. Thoughts?

[Matt Day]

I just heard an article on the news that Ford is building a new plant just for the Ford lightning. Will cost something like $20 billion or something, and the first new plant in 30 years. So they’re investing heavily in the truck.

If I needed a truck I would definitely consider it. My wife’s next vehicle will hopefully be an electric SUV.

[Tom M King]

I wish I could fill my truck up for $75. At least, I only need to fill it up every 900 miles. 56 gallon aftermarket tank, for diesel.

Back when diesel was 4 bucks a gallon, it took a little over $200 at one fillup.

I hope it lasts long enough that I can replace it with a 1 ton electric.

[Jim Becker]

I think that you will do well to consider it, honestly. Ford is doing a nice job that that design, I think and they will be bringing a ton of jobs to the market with their stated plans.

[Tyler Bancroft]

I'd like one too, but I'm not buying the first generation. Let someone else work out the bugs.

[roger wiegand]

I think the idea and basic designs are nice (we test drove the Mach E a couple weeks ago; it's very nice and will appeal to people who like a traditional feeling and driving car-- though for me the Tesla 3/Y beat it in every category, by a lot, plus the Tesla is made in the USA, unlike the "Mustang"). I'll be putting in an order for an electric vehicle as soon as the rebate situation clarifies. I fully expect Ford will make a truck that appeals to Ford truck buyers.

I will have no interest in the Lightning, or any other electric pickup, until I can get it with an 8 ft bed and without the crew cab. i honestly have no idea what those little truck beds are good for -- I use my truck to haul stuff, not people. Apparently I am in a small minority, so I'm not holding my breath for that option to appear.

[Mike Henderson]

Better get your order in. I see that Ford has 130,000 orders for the Lightning already. Of course, some of those orders will fall out but it'll take a while to get a vehicle.

I think the deposit is only $100. Just think, they received $13 million just for announcing the truck.

Mike

[Jim Koepke]

I will have no interest in the Lightning, or any other electric pickup, until I can get it with an 8 ft bed and without the crew cab. i honestly have no idea what those little truck beds are good for -- I use my truck to haul stuff, not people.

In my case a crew cab was chosen since we occasionally have to haul people. Also an 8 ft bed was wanted for hauling things other than people.

It is a bit of a pain to park at times since it is 22 ft long.

Crew cab pick up trucks appear to be the new family car in many areas.

jtk

[Alex Zeller]

It really comes down to what you need a truck for. If you don't tow or take long trips I can see this as a very viable option. Plus if you have solar panels and the truck will be home during the day you can take full advantage of it's batteries. Not only charging while the sun is out but I thought I read where you can use the batteries to power your house. If so you can power your house in the evening if you know you aren't going to use the truck the next day.

I on occasion tow my tractor about 100 miles and back. There's no option to charge and with the hills around here I'm not sure if the range is there. With the brakes on the trailer doing most of the stopping work I suspect it'll reduce the range as well. I'll wait until the RV crowd start buying them and see what they think. Both the F150 and Tundra are suppose to have hybrids coming out that sound interesting.

[Doug Garson]

I volunteer at a food bank and we have about a half dozen guys with pickups who help with deliveries. Every one is a crew cab and most have the cargo cover (not cap) which restricts cargo volume. I think my Murano can carry as much as most of them.

[Bill Dufour]

I understand it is only made as a four door with a short bed. Maybe five foot bed? I would consider a station wagon for longer stuff.
Get the optional generator and the usable bed drops to three feet!
Bill D.

[Lee DeRaud]

The whole crew-cab/short-bed thing might be due to battery capacity, i.e. not wanting the main battery extending under the bed.

Having seen the number of truck beds with holes drilled to install aftermarket work accessories (not to mention incidental abuse), they might have a point.

[Jim Becker]

Crew cab and shorter bed is what sells to the masses these days...and for an EV, it provides a more protected battery space as someone eluded to because of the cab size. Very few folks these days want an 8' pickup bed and most that do are contractors or other folks who use their pickups as work trucks. That's not the mass market these days and early EV is going to focus on the larger market initially for sure.

[Brian Elfert]

Ford seems to be catering to the people who use a pickup as a family vehicle rather than the people who use pickups as a work tool for this first generation of electric pickup. I suspect a lot of fleets and companies with work pickups aren't yet comfortable with an electric vehicle. It could get expensive to add electric chargers if you have a lot full of pickups that need to be charged. If an employer sends a pickup home with workers how is the pickup going to be charged? A lot of work pickups sit outside at employee's homes so that makes it even more complicated to charge them.

[Mike Henderson]

Ford seems to be catering to the people who use a pickup as a family vehicle rather than the people who use pickups as a work tool for this first generation of electric pickup. I suspect a lot of fleets and companies with work pickups aren't yet comfortable with an electric vehicle. It could get expensive to add electric chargers if you have a lot full of pickups that need to be charged. If an employer sends a pickup home with workers how is the pickup going to be charged? A lot of work pickups sit outside at employee's homes so that makes it even more complicated to charge them.

People who have to park on the street have to use charging stations. But that brings up another question - is the employee going to be paid for the hour, or so, spent at the charging station?

Mike

[Doug Garson]

Or will the employer pay to have a charging station installed at the employee's home?

[Mike Henderson]

Or will the employer pay to have a charging station installed at the employee's home?

For many EV's you don't need a charging station at home - you just need a 240 volt 50 amp outlet. Essentially an electric dryer outlet.

The charging control is built into a device in line with the charging cable, or built into the vehicle.

But putting in a new 240 volt 50 amp outlet in your garage still cost some money.

Mike

[Doug Garson]

For many EV's you don't need a charging station at home - you just need a 240 volt 50 amp outlet. Essentially an electric dryer outlet.

The charging control is built into a device in line with the charging cable, or built into the vehicle.

But putting in a new 240 volt 50 amp outlet in your garage still cost some money.

Mike

I just had two 20 Amp 240 V and two 15 Amp 120V outlets installed in my garage shop for $420 Cnd. So compared to paying an employee say$50/hr to charge at a public charging station, paying to install a 50Amp 240V outlet may have a pretty quick payback.

[Mike Henderson]

I just had two 20 Amp 240 V and two 15 Amp 120V outlets installed in my garage shop for $420 Cnd. So compared to paying an employee say$50/hr to charge at a public charging station, paying to install a 50Amp 240V outlet may have a pretty quick payback.


The problem is that some employees may live in an environment without a garage - in an apartment, for example. They may have to park on the street, or in a parking lot. Those employees will have to use a commercial charging station.

Employees who have a garage and can install a 240 volt outlet (some may rent and not have permission to do that) can charge at home. The employer can pay for the installation of the outlet and the recurring cost of the electricity for charging the vehicle.

Mike

[Doug Garson]

The problem is that some employees may live in an environment without a garage - in an apartment, for example. They may have to park on the street, or in a parking lot. Those employees will have to use a commercial charging station.

Mike
Agreed, it's not a one size fits all situation. Some employees have no where to park at all so they might park their work truck at work (and charge it overnight there) and bus it home.
There are also some who live in locations where it is prohibited to park a commercial vehicle overnight.

[Jim Becker]

There is clearly a "chicken and egg" issue with what I'll term "public charging" and there have been a number of articles out there that cite the challenge for city, apartment/rental and other living situations. This is yet another reason that the targeted demographic somewhat favores suburbia and beyond where home-charging is more practical. Then again, I've noticed more and more "public charging" stations cropping up these days, including in convenience store parking areas and public parking facilities. More and more hotels are putting them in now, too. But that's not going to happen soon enough; hence, the marking of the initial EV push the way Ford and others have been doing.

[Tyler Bancroft]

My understanding is that Ford is primarily targeting the fleet market for the initial release, and I expect that issues around charging availability are likely a lower priority in that market – a company that can afford to buy a couple hundred EV trucks can also afford to install some charging infrastructure.

[Brian Elfert]

My understanding is that Ford is primarily targeting the fleet market for the initial release, and I expect that issues around charging availability are likely a lower priority in that market – a company that can afford to buy a couple hundred EV trucks can also afford to install some charging infrastructure.

The fact they aren't making anything but crew cabs with short beds is a sign that Ford is mostly catering to non-commercial applications for the initial release. They have a so-called "Pro" edition, but it is still a crew cab, but with some extra features like 110 volt receptacles and telematics. Most real work trucks are regular cab or super cab if they are F-150s, or if crew cab they use an F-250 or F-350 for the larger bed capacity.

[Jack Frederick]

Pick-ups like most vehicles have “softened” over the years. As an example, my work trucks were Yukon XL. I had a 92,97,02 and 06. The 92 was a truck. the others became replacements for soccer Mom’s vans. Yes, as Jim has done, you can buy a real truck, but most are used as cars. Ford knows that and wants to dominate in its best field, the F150. From my observations most drivers of big PU’s with million dollar wheels and tires never carry anything but groceries, so I think Ford is on the right track. Yes, the infrastructure is weak so the chicken and egg analogy works, but Ford has announced massive development of electric vehicles and plants in TN, KY & TX;) The “frunk” or trunk in the front where those big beautiful motors used to be is pretty cool. I have a whole house generator but with the safety power outages we have here in the foothills the ability to keep the house going for a while is pretty cool also. I think Ford have a better idea on this. I’m not sure I can make it pay but will continue to follow this thing.

[Tyler Bancroft]

The fact they aren't making anything but crew cabs with short beds is a sign that Ford is mostly catering to non-commercial applications for the initial release. They have a so-called "Pro" edition, but it is still a crew cab, but with some extra features like 110 volt receptacles and telematics. Most real work trucks are regular cab or super cab if they are F-150s, or if crew cab they use an F-250 or F-350 for the larger bed capacity.


Not sure that I agree, especially since they're making models targeted specifically at the fleet market: https://www.worktruckonline.com/10144074/ford-f-150-lightning-pro-launched-for-commercial-fleets

[John K Jordan]

It really comes down to what you need a truck for. If you don't tow or take long trips I can see this as a very viable option. Plus if you have solar panels and the truck will be home during the day you can take full advantage of it's batteries. Not only charging while the sun is out but I thought I read where you can use the batteries to power your house. If so you can power your house in the evening if you know you aren't going to use the truck the next day.

I on occasion tow my tractor about 100 miles and back. There's no option to charge and with the hills around here I'm not sure if the range is there. With the brakes on the trailer doing most of the stopping work I suspect it'll reduce the range as well. I'll wait until the RV crowd start buying them and see what they think. Both the F150 and Tundra are suppose to have hybrids coming out that sound interesting.

Agree. I haul my excavator, tractor, or skid steer with a diesel '99 Dodge 2500 and rely on both the trailer brakes and gearing down. Often haul 150 bales of hay up steep, twisty mountain roads and horse trailers. My big trailers are gooseneck. Takes a lot of power to pull a heavy load up some of the steep hills around here. Loads are often 4-5 tons.

I'm currently looking a 3500 diesel chassis truck I that I can have a custom flat bed built for it. My Lovely Bride keeps sneaking money into my new truck account...

Last thing I need right now is a prissy electric truck-car for trips to Walmart. Maybe a heavy duty hybrid would make sense.

JKJ

[John K Jordan]

I wish I could fill my truck up for $75. At least, I only need to fill it up every 900 miles. 56 gallon aftermarket tank, for diesel.

Back when diesel was 4 bucks a gallon, it took a little over $200 at one fillup.

I hope it lasts long enough that I can replace it with a 1 ton electric.

I rarely get out of the gas station for less than $150 for diesel. Diesel here is around $3. Without a load I got 20 mpg or so, last time I checked.

[Clarence Martinn]

For people that live in SNOW COUNTRY !!! , Will this new electric truck be able to hook up a snow plow to it, and plow out a driveway ? There have been many years where we get heavy Lake Effect snow with blowing and drifts 4 feet or more in height. Is that electric truck going to plow through that ?

[Brian Elfert]

Not sure that I agree, especially since they're making models targeted specifically at the fleet market: https://www.worktruckonline.com/10144074/ford-f-150-lightning-pro-launched-for-commercial-fleets

Again, how many fleets use crew cab short bed half ton pickups? That is the only model of the "Pro" lineup right now is a crew cab that has a short bed. Sure, some fleets use these, but a true fleet vehicle is rarely an F-150 with crew cab. I see large utility and construction company pickups on the road quite often, but a lot of them are F-250 or F-350. These same companies will often have some F-150s for certain uses, but usually regular cab or super cab.

Auto manufacturers will likely sell a lot of electric vehicles to fleets once they offer more than a family SUV with a short cargo bed and start building the kind of pickups that fleets use.

[Tom M King]

I could get by fine with 100 mile range, but I'm waiting for a dually that will pull 25,000 pounds. I only work within 10 miles from home.

I don't see that short bed being used by many fleets. I've owned a fair number of trucks, but never bought one with anything but an 8' bed, and don't intend to.

[Lee DeRaud]

For people that live in SNOW COUNTRY !!! , Will this new electric truck be able to hook up a snow plow to it, and plow out a driveway ? There have been many years where we get heavy Lake Effect snow with blowing and drifts 4 feet or more in height. Is that electric truck going to plow through that ?EVs have gobs of low-end torque. It's more a question of traction, which would be true for any pickup. Mind you, I'm comparing the question of EV vs ICE F150: I have no idea how well a 'normal' F150 works as a snow-plow.

(And if your usage profile actually requires something F250/F350-sized, why would you care?)

[Bill Dufour]

A few years ago at Yosemite National park I noticed a charging station in the parking lot behind the fancy hotel. I doubt many cars could get up the hill in winter with the heat on without charging before heading down the hill to the nearest charging station
Bill D.

[Bill Dufour]

I would assume a pickup with a extra ton of batteries would have better snow traction then a ice version. I do not know the ford's battery weight but tesla is about 2,000 pounds

[Jim Koepke]

Most real work trucks are regular cab or super cab if they are F-150s, or if crew cab they use an F-250 or F-350 for the larger bed capacity.

One nice thing about a crew cab is the back seats can be folded up if items need to be stored inside the vehicle.

For me a short bed is next to useless. For some people it may be all they need.

jtk

[Jeff Monson]

One nice thing about a crew cab is the back seats can be folded up if items need to be stored inside the vehicle.



Exactly, and if you see the picture on the website of the man loading suitcases in the trunk (which I guess is what you call the area where an engine used to reside) this thing has a ton of storage. I spent quite a bit of time looking at the site today and this truck is really nice. I hope it can live up to the 300 mile range.

[Kev Williams]

For people that live in SNOW COUNTRY !!! , Will this new electric truck be able to hook up a snow plow to it, and plow out a driveway ? There have been many years where we get heavy Lake Effect snow with blowing and drifts 4 feet or more in height. Is that electric truck going to plow through that ?

EVs have gobs of low-end torque...
No clue on the new Ford but the new Hummer EV's can be had with up to 11,500# of torque... that should push some snow! :D

[Tyler Bancroft]

Again, how many fleets use crew cab short bed half ton pickups? That is the only model of the "Pro" lineup right now is a crew cab that has a short bed. Sure, some fleets use these, but a true fleet vehicle is rarely an F-150 with crew cab. I see large utility and construction company pickups on the road quite often, but a lot of them are F-250 or F-350. These same companies will often have some F-150s for certain uses, but usually regular cab or super cab.

Auto manufacturers will likely sell a lot of electric vehicles to fleets once they offer more than a family SUV with a short cargo bed and start building the kind of pickups that fleets use.

I see plenty of them around here. Imagine it's a regional variation.

[Mike Henderson]

Exactly, and if you see the picture on the website of the man loading suitcases in the trunk (which I guess is what you call the area where an engine used to reside) this thing has a ton of storage. I spent quite a bit of time looking at the site today and this truck is really nice. I hope it can live up to the 300 mile range.

Remember about those range claims:

1. They're usually a "best case" meaning that nothing else (like the air conditioner) is running.
2. You really can't run the battery all the way down - Just like with a gasoline car, you need to find a place to fill up before it's totally empty.
3. Over time, the battery capacity decreases.

So, your usable range is maybe 75% of specified when the vehicle is new, and maybe 65% after it ages a bit (that is, how far you can reasonably go before recharging).

Mike

[Jim Koepke]

One thing noticed on a recent drive down to California is some of the rest stops on I-5 had two or three charging stations.


Most real work trucks are regular cab or super cab if they are F-150s, or if crew cab they use an F-250 or F-350 for the larger bed capacity.

What surprised me a few days ago while shopping was a Ford F-450 parked next to me. Looking it up online it appears it is a 1-1/2 ton truck.

jtk

[Alex Zeller]

When it comes to fleet trucks other issues have to be dealt with. Like a company is going to have to pay an employee to sit around waiting for a EV to charge if they use more than it's range. My first job was delivering glass with a 1/2 ton GMC. There never was a lot of glass but I crossed several states and usually went through 2+ tanks of gas. Often it would take me 10 to 12 hours. Adding an extra hour or so each trip would add up.

[Rick Potter]

I am going the other way, and backing away from full size pickups. I have always had a pickup for towing or carrying an RV...since 1968, and an El Camino before that. I sold the last boat, 5th wheel /camper, dune buggy/Jeep I will ever own. My current F250 diesel is in the process of being sold to a grandson.

I still want a pickup and the new breed of mini truck, like the Ford Maverick, will now suit me for the Home Depot runs, and occasional furniture/tool hauling.

Since I also have a lot of solar at home, I will wait until they make a mini truck that is preferably a plug in hybrid, or a full battery powered model. I suspect Ford will have this type available on the Maverick in a year or two. Maybe Honda Ridgeline will too. Meantime we have two small plug in hybrid SUV's that are six and seven years old.

They have lost very little range, and at least 75% of the mileage has been on electric, even though they have been on several two thousand mile trips. We gas them up every 3-4 months, unless we take a trip.

Everyone's need is different, and in my case I will only buy a vehicle with a plug, if possible.

[Jim Becker]

Rick, that's not a bad way to go. I bought a small 5x8 flatbed utility trailer years go when I sold the pickup in favor of a midsize SUV for family reasons after we adopted our girls. That trailer has handled all the hard tasks and big things that couldn't fit in the various SUVs I've been driving. I can put a 10' stick or three into my Subaru Ascent up the middle, but if I need a lot of material or big stuff like sheet goods, the trailer gets the nod. It's also been getting a lot of work since our move, both for physically moving machinery and materials, but also with the back and forth to the other property to mow with my ZTR. A small pickup like you describe would be a similar setup for "as is" hauling with the ability, if you choose, to have a small trailer to get bigger stuff every once in awhile. EVs and Hybrids haul just fine...they have wonderful low end torque. Towing limits may be lower, but it sounds like RVing isn't part of your deal anymore .

[Roger Feeley]

One possibility that excites me about the Lightning is that there’s an add on generator that mounts like those truck bed tool boxes. It occurs to me that if Ford makes that thing easy to install and remove, owners could rent a generator for the occasional long trip.

[Lee DeRaud]

One possibility that excites me about the Lightning is that there’s an add on generator that mounts like those truck bed tool boxes. It occurs to me that if Ford makes that thing easy to install and remove, owners could rent a generator for the occasional long trip.Kind of depends on your definition of "easy to install and remove". To be useful, 10KW is about the minimum (probably more like 2X-3X that), which makes humping the generator in/out of the bed something you really don't want to do too often.

[Mike Henderson]

Kind of depends on your definition of "easy to install and remove". To be useful, 10KW is about the minimum (probably more like 2X-3X that), which makes humping the generator in/out of the bed something you really don't want to do too often.

According to some web sites I found, at 70 mph, an EV uses about 0.25 KWh per hour. So a 10 KW generator will put about 40 miles into the battery in an hour. If you're driving 70 mph, you'll have to take the other 30 miles out of the vehicle battery. You'd need about an 18 KW generator to keep up with driving 70 mph.

But using a 10 KW generator is not unreasonable. You'd be pulling about 7.5KWh per hour from the main battery. If you had a 75KWh battery, that would give you 10 hours of driving before you'd be empty. At 70 mph, that's 750 miles.

Based on these assumptions, a 75 KWh battery would give a range of 300 miles without the generator.

Mike

[Some web sites quote a slightly larger figure for the KWH per mile at 70 mph. One I saw was a bit over 0.30 KWh per mile at 70 mph. You can calculate the numbers with your choice of KWh per mile.]

[Bill Dufour]

They do make generators on small trailers to be towed behind the ev. Again the Ford generator reduces the bed length to about 3' so not much room for luggage on those long trips.
Bill D

[Lee DeRaud]

According to some web sites I found, at 70 mph, an EV uses about 0.25 KWh per hour.
...
[Some web sites quote a slightly larger figure for the KWH per mile at 70 mph. One I saw was a bit over 0.30 KWh per mile at 70 mph. You can calculate the numbers with your choice of KWh per mile.]That first number sounds reasonable for a Tesla/Leaf/Bolt/etc, but at 70, the Ford is going to take a big aero hit by comparison.

(Seems like we already did a bunch of this math in an earlier EV thread...)

[Rick Potter]

I like the trailer idea Jim. Can't believe I hadn't thought of that, since I have a HD a mile away where I could rent a trailer by the day as needed. That saves me from having to use space at home to store it.

[Jim Becker]

Yes, for occasional use, renting a trailer is a nice idea. Relative to HD, you also have the option of their flatbed truck for a very reasonable fee for "big orders". I bought my trailer (made in my own county, as a matter of fact) for about $800 back in 2006. It's truly paid for itself many times over. Parking it was zero issue at our old property, but I'll need to decide how I want to handle it here at the new, much smaller property, probably planning for a parking spot as part of my future shop build project. Right now, it's just on the driveway extension along the south side of the house, but that will have to change once the driveway is extended somehow to said shop building.

[Alex Zeller]

They do make 5x8 trailers that fold. That might be a solution if you don't haver or want to create a place to park it when not in use. I have a 4x6 that my father left me that was too small for most anything I would need it for so I added a foot to the width. It would be easy for someone with welding tools to modify the tongue could fold on a regular trailer.

[Tom Bain]

I think it’s only a matter of time (1-2 years, maybe?) before Ford expands the configuration options for the Lightning to include other cab and bed options. The company is making a massive investment to electrify vehicles across its entire product line.

[Jon Bohlander]

I am curious about the hybrid version. No range issues then and ability to use the pickup itself as an generator. I would want 8' bed for sure. Currently drive an "foreman" F150 (v6, 2wd, regular cab, 8 foot bed). It was cheap used because everyone wants the bigger pickups and 4WD. With the just added contractor shell it is is perfect for my needs maintaining a couple propertys and supporting the woodworking habit.

Around here construction crews, seem to use crew cabs with short bed for the "crew" for and pull an enclosed trailer for tools and materials.

I think Ford it is doing it right. Big fleets where they drive a short range and park it on company property at night to charge will look at them hard. Think phone company, utilities, etc. Mom & pop contractors will take longer as they love their diesels.