Bandsaw for small shop

[JOEL MONGEON]

Hello everyone, I'm a hobbyist working out of a one car garage (12X19) shop. I have mostly been building up a Festool tool collection with some hand tools thrown into the mix. I've got a Sawstop JSS pro that I use for ripping but am looking to replace that with my first and hopefully last bandsaw. I would like a bandsaw for ripping, resawing and a bit of joinery work. I've got a nice Jet scrollsaw I use for small parts and templates. With the pandemic and supply issues it seems like just getting any saw is a challenge so I was hoping to get some advice.

I went to a local supplier last week and they had the Laguna 1412 on the floor and the sales person tried to pressure me into the 14BX they had in the back. I declined as I wanted to measure out how much space it would take up in my shop. I made a spreadsheet of all the bandsaws I thought I would like and got out the painters tape to measure footprints. For a few extra inches the Laguna 18BX and Powermatic PM 1500 looked much better to me.

My short list is the Laguna 18BX, Powermatic PM 1500, Hammer N4400 or MiniMax S440P. Looking around Canadian sites it looks like Hammer and MiniMax are out of stock everywhere. There are a few Powermatics I can get shipped (just waiting to hear back on shipping costs). I see the Laguna's in stock locally but I've read and seen some bad issues with quality control and customer service on the Laguna's.

I looked briefly at Rikon's but am not sure how they stack up. I was talking to someone who upgraded their Rikon with the DVR motor. That also sounds interesting if it helps with resawing.

I'm really not sure which direction to go. Cost isn't as important as buying a machine that just works out of the box. I don't want to have to spend weeks troubleshooting a new tool or waiting for replacement parts. I also don't want to go buy something smaller like the Laguna 14BX, get it to my shop and then wish I had bought something a little bigger and go through the hassle of trying to sell it to get a bigger saw.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Thanks

[Jim Becker]

Joel, for your stated purpose where the bandsaw will be an essential "center" of your shop, you want big and heavy. I'm in the MiniMax camp so I'll use that as an example...heavy, stiff and able to tension proper resaw blades is essential. Given you may want a more "finished" look to your cuts, being able to work with a carbide tipped band may be an important factor. Honestly, that was tough with my "small" 16" Minimax bandsaw...a larger one would have been a better choice for that, but I didn't know what I know now back in 2004. :)

Supply is absolutely going to be a challenge right now. While I know that you have the urge to get the deed done, consider ordering the "right" saw for your needs, rather than settling for what you can get "faster".

[Dan Gaylin]

Joel, totally get wanting an excellent bandsaw and you will be glad you did. Just curious why you are getting rid of the portable and relatively small table saw. I am not as expert as many here, and people will disagree, but even with a very good bandsaw, set up correctly, I have found the table saw is much better for very precise ripping.

[Ed Mitchell]

I have the PM1500, and it's a tank of a small bandsaw. Great rip capacity, 3hp, etc. I got it in part because I didn't want to have to study schematics for an hour, break out 30 tools, and spend 5 hours assembling -- I wanted to roll it off the pallet, drop on the fence, make a few checks and start cutting. PM costs more, and part of the reason is because it's more assembled and QA'd when you receive it.

Pretty much all the saws you mentioned are going to serve you well, so bottom line, I agree with Jim -- get the "right" saw, and bite the bullet with the current supply chain nightmares. Everyone wants the 18" Laguna because it's a great combo of features and price, so you're going to wait forever unless the dice roll your way. So, if you can afford a (eg) PM 1800, you can probably get it shipped in a coupla weeks, tops. Call Felder and see if they have a 510 or 610 lying around. These might not be the best value saws, but they're awesome, they'll last you forever, they'll do everything, and you might not have to wait. So it's pay to play, if you can afford it.

For someone who wants to buy their last saw first (a good way to go, imo, again, if you can afford it), it's worth considering. Yes these machines are also slightly larger than (eg) the PM1500, but check their footprints -- you might be surprised to find they're not much bigger than (eg) the 18" Laguna.

[John TenEyck]

Of your candidates - MiniMax, Laguna, Hammer, Powermatic, in that order. Why? I can't ever remember reading on here about someone complaining about their new MM. Their switches were awful for a long time, but hopefully that has finally been fixed.

Do some searching on here if you are seriously considering the Hammer.

Personally, I've had a Grizzly G0636X for 5 years and it is one awesome saw.

John

[JOEL MONGEON]

Hey thanks everyone for the quick replies!

A bit more context for my needs. Here is my latest layout for my shop:
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One the right hand side you can see some blue tape where I measured footprint sizes:
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The largest footprint would be from the 18BX. Everything else is a bit smaller. That's where my jobsite saw is/was living. I'm not going to get rid of it, just fold it up when not in use. I often times would like to do a small precise cut that a bandsaw would excel at. I've tried on my wife's scrollsaw but more often than not the blade deflects and breaks.

I agree bigger would be better but I also like having space to move in my shop. I'd feel claustrophobic with too much real estate taken up. I'm currently sharing the shop with the family bicycles and a large cargo bike. Hopefully next summer I can build a shed out back. I think the 18BX would have pushed it, the PM1500 and MM 16 would fit a lot better. I just don't want a tiny 14" Delta like most people start with.

After watching some youtube last night it seems like the Laguna 18BX has some design and qc issues that I'm really not interested in dealing with. https://youtu.be/tPtvdY9uErk

My list in order would probably be MiniMax, Powermatic, Hammer and maybe Rikon? I can't seem to find Hammer in Canada. I did find a shop outside of Toronto that has MiniMax/SCM S400P - Bandsaw which comes out to $6,446.65 CAD with shipping and taxes. There is also a place in Quebec with 2 Powermatic PM 1500's for $5,084.99 but I'm waiting on shipping cost.

Jim you are correct, the blade I'd put in and leave would be a large carbide tipped blade. Funny thing was, the other day at the store that wanted me to buy the 14BX sight unseen was they tried talking me out of a resaw king blade. They looked at me funny saying it was practically gold plated and overpriced? Weird, who tries to discourage a customer from buying a great sawblade?

As for Grizzly, I probably would have had it on my list when I lived in Seattle but I'm in Ottawa Canada now and I can imagine importing something as large as a bandsaw being a huge extra cost and hassle. I'd rather buy from a localish shop that has already imported into Canada.

I'll check out the PM 1800 and Felder 510 like Ed mentioned. I think PM 1800 might dwarf my shop though. We'll see :)

Thanks again for the help.

[Jim Becker]

FYI, Felder and Hammer are the same company. They do sell in Canada...one of our SMC Contributors, I believe, is involved with them or a dealer, if I'm not mistaken.

[JOEL MONGEON]

Thanks Jim.

I reached out to Felder Canada and got this reply: Thanks for your inquiry on the Hammer N4400

They are not currently available as the factory cannot get single phase motors for them

Edit: I just asked about the Felder FB510 and got a quick reply:

Have the same motor issues but have 4 on order


The Laguna LT16HD would be a good choice and we have just the one in stock.

I should add the LT16HD to my list I guess and do some research.
Edited after reading Tom's response SKU: MBAND165600

[Tom Trees]

Hard to go wrong with a larger Hammer, Felder, or the LT range, for one looking for it to do the work of a tablesaw.
Not sure if the LT range is the newer models with tapered column, or the ones with a straight column.

Not sure how you worked your footprint out, the tables will have much to say on that.
I think a big table is far nicer, cutting tenons, safer distance away from the blade and not a balancing act with long stuff, cleaner.
Most of the far Eastern machines will likely have smaller tables and also a slightly lighter frame, so you could also look at up to 20" machines to have some comparison with the
Italian or Italianish saws.
All being equal, the difference will be in the guides, hard to beat the Euro guides, but some disagree.

If you don't want faff, then what you mentioned is the way to go.
If you intend to do a bit of curve cutting frequently also, then see if the Felder or Hammer has crowned tires,
I'd sooner the flat tires for ripping, but John's super stout Griz ,(look at that spec sheet on his, weight is twice some of the same size machines)
seems happy running CT's.

[Alex Zeller]

It seems like you have a pretty nice budget for the BS. Personally I would look for a saw with 18" to 20" wheels. They typically have a footprint not much bigger than a 14" saw but the extra diameter wheels play nice with resaw blades. I have the 19" Grizzly that replaced a 14" cast iron Delta clone. It looks massive compared to the 14" saw but in reality it's not. The new saw went into the same location as the old saw and I don't notice the shop being any more crapped than before. I got the Grizzly because I set a budget of $2k (a couple years ago) and it came down to the 18BX (with more resaw capacity) and the Grizzly (with a much beefier trunnion). Since I use the saw for cutting up green blanks for turning that can be very heavy and Grizzly offered a 10% off coupon that's the direction I went.

Unless you're positive that the extra table size of the LT18 will just be too big I think that's the one I would choose over the LT16. Not much difference in price and a larger table and throat depth is always a plus. Both are Italian saws with Lesson motors so I think quality shouldn't be an issue. As for the other Euro machines, I can't answer that question. Do you want to wait or do you want to do woodworking. The one thing I would add to your list though is a foot brake. The electronic brake is ok but the foot brake allows you to just tap it and it'll shut the saw off. Very nice when you just turned 1 piece of wood into 2 and have both hands holding a piece.

[David Publicover]

I have a Mini-max jointer/planer and the quality is top notch. I’m sure their bandsaw is the same but my budget didn’t allow for one. I purchased a Laguna BX18 a year ago and have been very happy with it. It was well packed and easy to get set up and running. I find the quality to be very good.
Good luck with your search!

[JOEL MONGEON]

Thanks for all the feedback and advice. It's much appreciated. When I talk to my wife about bandsaws, her face goes blank and she says "I don't care" before walking away. My kids are no better, the pretend to listen while drawing on the dog with sidewalk chalk.
I dismissed Grizzly outright as I thought shipping and duties would be an issue. However, last night I found a thread on the Canadian woodworkers site about how great they are at delivering large machinery to Canada. Some of the happy posters were even from Ottawa. So maybe I'll add them to my list.
After watching some MM16 YouTube videos last night, I have to say it looks super solid. From what I can tell it doesn't look like the MM16 has a high/low fence like most other manufacturers. Is this right? Not that it's a deal-breaker.
David, glad to hear your Laguna 18BX is not having any problems. Hopefully they fixed what was wrong with them 3 years ago.
I'm just waiting on a quote from SCM dealer on the MM16. Hopefully they get back to me today.
A bigger table would be nice but I should probably draw a budgetary line somewhere. ��

[JOEL MONGEON]

I thought I'd post a small update.

So far my list has shrunk down to 3 choices. The SCM S440P/MM 16, Laguna LT18 and Grizzly G0636X.

I've found dealers in Canada that have stock of the Laguna and SCM and I just found out that Grizzly will ship directly to Canada and their bandsaws are in stock and ready to ship.

My top saw is the S440P. The dealer is about 2 hours from me and is also the local Canadian service center for SCM which is a bonus. They have a few new bandsaws that are on their way from the factory but they don't actually have them yet. The salesman said they should arrive on the 10th of October then go through certification before becoming available to the dealer. So if I went with my first choice I'd most likely have it by the end of October. My only hesitation is they don't actually have any in stock. Things can happen to shipments and if I bought my saw and there was a delay, who knows when I'd see it. The other issue is that of the 3 saws it has the smallest table size at 24.5 X 17.74. It is also the most expensive of the 3 saws, with tax and delivery over $7K.

My second choice is the Laguna LT18. I like that it is also an Italian made saw like the S440P. It has more resaw capabilites and the table is bigger at 25 X 19. The height of the table is lower which I might like but most of the research I've done has said that Laguna's customer service is pretty terrible. I know nothing should go wrong with the LT18 but good customer service is piece of mind. It is also around $500 dollars cheaper than the S440P.

My last choice is the Grizzly G0636X. I've never owned anything Grizzly and I know they are not built in Italy or NA but from what I've read, their customer service is outstanding. The G0636X is meant to compete with Italian saws, so they have most of the same options as the other 2. The table is the largest of the bunch at 25.5 X 21 and it is the heaviest at 784lbs shipped (not acutally sure assembled weight but must be pretty heavy). It is also the cheapest of the bunch at around $1500 less than the S440P (if I did my math and currency conversion right).

All 3 have 5hp 220v motors, resaw height is between 18.5" and 16". Throat size between 17" and 15". Seeing as I don't have a bandsaw yet, I can only guess that having a larger table is important for stability. In that case the Grizzly comes out on top. But I also want something rock solid that I can use for resawing, ripping and doing joinery cuts. I plan on putting on a 1" resaw king or similar blade and leaving it like that. Geez, decisions are hard :)

[Lisa Starr]

Joel,

I purchased my SCM Sliding Table saw with the same way as you'd be purchasing the bandsaw. I placed my order for the machine (my dealer even provided me with the serial number that was "mine") with just a deposit. The machine arrived in the US on time and they shipped it directly to me just a couple of days later after I paid the balance due.

[Melvin Feng]

I have an 18 BX, so the saws you are looking at are a level above.

If you are going to have a carbide tipped blade on it, I'd get the largest diameter wheels you can. Those saws you are looking at should have no problem tensioning a wide carbide tipped blade to 30kpsi. The reason why I say this, is that I've noticed that some who try to use a 3/4" resaw king on a 14" saw tend to work harden and break their blades fairly quickly. I use a 1.25" resaw king on my 18BX, and have no such problems, and I primarily attribute that to the diameter of the blades (I am also very consistent with releasing tension when I am finished with my cutting for the day). A 16" saw should be better than a 14", but I would say that if you can go at least 18", that would be even better.

For your budget, I would make sure to add the cost of at least two of your intended carbide tipped blades, and maybe also a 1/2" bimetal blade for other duties. I really like the resaw king blade, and I also have a set of narrower (1/4, 3/8, and 1/2) lenox diemaster 2 bimetals blades in .035. I primarily only use the 1/2 now for cutting cylinders for bowl blanks, and everything else is cut with the resaw king for me.

Lenox has a couple options for carbide tipped blades too that you can compare to the resaw king. I don't know if they can be resharpened as easily as the resaw king though.

Good luck with your decision!

[JOEL MONGEON]

Thank you Lisa. Good to know that's how orders with SCM work. I wasn't too worried about the dealer. More worried about shipping delays because of Covid. It should be in Canada by early next week. I'll be checking back with the dealer to verify.

Thanks Melvin. That's some great advice I plan on taking.

I should probably have mentioned wheel sizes. Laguna LT18 is largest at 18", Grizzly G0636X is 17" and S440P is 440 mm which is roughly 17.3". So each of them should have a large enough diameter to tension a 1" resaw king blade.

[Tom Trees]

Along with the Italian machines or Italian styles (with Euro guides)
Might want to look at the cheaper 20 inch models of the cheaper brands if you are wanting to consider everything.
That size could be 500/20"+... with maybe 10 or 40mm added (these days), although you likely won't find anything as heavy as the 17" Grizzly, it might be worth consideration.
What might well be the Achilles heel is the tensioning screw on the larger but lighter machines, which are likely much cheaper (pure guess from someone inIreland)
I reckon you're looking at a good few lumps of coal on top of 200kg to be anywhere comparable for the best resaw conditions.

Even after having a 20" compact far eastern machine, it can be hard to get an impression if they are all as compact.
Not even talking about the table, but the frame around the wheels and column.
Should be evident if looking around if you can get a picture of the wheels to compare.

I suppose if you're also looking for another Achilles heel, its the Euro guides seem head and shoulders above the rest,
but...Van Husky (miss his blogs) was impressed with the Rikon ones....
I wonder if his mind changed, as I don't believe they were around that long when he had his mystery machine accumulator working.
If that concerned about longevity, one might be wondering if the Laguna ceramics might fit a particular machine or not..

Just saying you might as well compare like for like, and likely there is some competition from another grizz, rikon, at the least.
And not even talking about second hand, there's likely a pristine industrial quality machine somewhere for the money...

And then there's the savings of 3 phase, but you don't sound like you have the time for reading up on VFD's and suitable 3 phase motors which can run on 220v household supply.
That might be of concern, if you have a weaker supply, which might not like the startup surge of a second machine starting, guessing you have a suitable breaker for this machine
you want.
I think you guys have bigger sub consumer fuseboards than we have for the whole property, so likely more of an issue with us far across the foam.
I'm in a rented house and it's not worth getting an upgrade, so use machines which can be ran via VFD/inverters (hundred quid job)
and can tailor the startup on my machine to run on a weak supply, just by adding an extra second or two on startup, as it's the startup surge is what's hard on the supply.

There's some chance you likely could get a machine better than all for a quarter of the cost, well a third for a nicer condition one.
Just putting it out there, should you want DC to match.
Good luck with whichever way you choose
All the best
Tom

[John TenEyck]

There's no issue with work hardening of blades on the 17" wheels of the Grizzly, nor likely on the MM16. My friend has an identical G0636X as me (I bought mine after looking at his vs. an older model MM16 and there was no comparison). He leaves a 1" Woodmaster CT on it 24/7. It's been on there for 2+ years and has cut many hundreds of feet of wide veneer and resawing.

To the OP, whatever saw you buy I highly recommend the Woodmaster CT for resawing and veneer slicing. It is a wood eating monster, yet the cut surface is amazingly smooth. My friend and I both use a 1" x 1.3 tpi, and run it at a measured 25 ksi.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Qk3Bl6Uw_qigxjEGmuQCKeknCSPu2Ve1128fj9Xwe9LmV7ufrt zxNc3PET6YO_AQEdQgThstAQAlMAP8_ReJKwApj8IhpuQbZUaV JuHEq6f_aEjh6xXxu2rOCG2h9cBPyVIXCiB-sH-zPeuuSyyp-xEXLDa_mmHOHvHySv_HsjNMqpDiBo7ic-lxwj6OuTo60qgiudw6dMXZbslIE9TxqtWkoh40MP84BFhew8wk MFDabUeWro2frYebfQchsuKwosfxLfu-t88IWDL0T87m_RqrAaj3BZ580QtAFqYDLNvZymJoFHkmUbOWYI gag4lJ723y4EIsVBotj_BLvJE08-MrwOBKy5PAciwE6ky7mC-3TeIaOJDvDrnz5r-OhfCJdb9RsxBXq0d0X6FbEX8y3H6-69iFhPVL1wDtOp1_G6DR0ULHwAKx0o2ZDOCYpLxH-L-xqjZ4LcUWzQop2VSw2RqGIqEQ-ICE4__Srq8UoSqZlgdGsi0xslVmoH3VNEBtG460avfZ7RnPf3S _YTUJGCKwXhmNuKwh1HQX--Zd3zwLQZdYhZRWvkaskbBEKGPuP-EQyW-99RxQjw_RdZXDecF1u_FvUyjPxu5glwNoWBzaYyCr5uJPAC5HF dsiUNUlPhdNlXmJmnJMXUOQr1MnVWpKLbsrcx1rVyYdq0WUtZG j9czKwgDMoC-kpOsBodNOuRaYYeVT4uJfZrohL6kxPKJl2w=w462-h615-no?authuser=0

The G0636X does this easily. I accidently had 42 ksi on it once. It's that robust. This is the typical cut quality. You can spend more but I doubt there is a better value.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Yhr14rwGB95yUSnEPpCqXYHRBBx8qrFJrsXUzOpKHeOFA_VGzl iqyEwlXFcUngHSowvfGJjgOeBY5YbjjvepUQMUfPPvxaFyFLuX m7bcShd1FpauzvL66UnkMxuTq77HcikdNc3FMBr2OysO-_8_vZ2fwqeej6jY5619oZYEC80aTLSTUf5JKCAfaLkX7CwFerd zcJbRwVwCGPrN18cNHVxKMCTr3quwc7rn6rNrlOoUtwgYToFDv KgJqzyqbxntAvd_GCvgt91qyY2ZzwzgkoQMB6D633mkjH69Utu emycxv34Wo6Lt6DuFDOUFsgnhEUG-gnBvgqQQleZ714XRFNy7xdlLFy9cWt4zXj08LlRx12-OCfk96d4kqiOMOqj0fj9_Ihdr0nIQOALkT4dRux-ys6QHy_0xeGfeHGnyTuAqR033WfGRyqpzgP7GN9J2ozPVeCoAm I4QnOL9_2HpmBwrvRtzg6daVh72qQ9A0kU6AKlkipJ2a49LkLD YViAuysSNmLno-2m6yL0y144MZmivbZnL4zmaPwmbyy82QAP681OCUrDpVFh__kD 63cp6B5WVGMoX7NkLmh6ye2fL-zzP7s7SW6YJH5__IAF2IDyZkhYxTnbG42zHqTW-2_kdgazO6VJTBNWnQa7RH2f1BixqlLaJIJS-Atm5F859l7Csjm-cWCt2CK6kz0n_BXebOUfclE8AbWTWoP4I_4ELZhMtcg=w640-h480-no?authuser=0

And the G0636X weighs about 650 lbs. It's a heavy beast.

John

[Jacques Gagnon]

I thought I'd post a small update.

So far my list has shrunk down to 3 choices. The SCM S440P/MM 16, Laguna LT18 and Grizzly G0636X.

I've found dealers in Canada that have stock of the Laguna and SCM and I just found out that Grizzly will ship directly to Canada and their bandsaws are in stock and ready to ship.

My top saw is the S440P. The dealer is about 2 hours from me and is also the local Canadian service center for SCM which is a bonus. They have a few new bandsaws that are on their way from the factory but they don't actually have them yet. The salesman said they should arrive on the 10th of October then go through certification before becoming available to the dealer. So if I went with my first choice I'd most likely have it by the end of October. My only hesitation is they don't actually have any in stock. Things can happen to shipments and if I bought my saw and there was a delay, who knows when I'd see it. The other issue is that of the 3 saws it has the smallest table size at 24.5 X 17.74. It is also the most expensive of the 3 saws, with tax and delivery over $7K.

My second choice is the Laguna LT18. I like that it is also an Italian made saw like the S440P. It has more resaw capabilites and the table is bigger at 25 X 19. The height of the table is lower which I might like but most of the research I've done has said that Laguna's customer service is pretty terrible. I know nothing should go wrong with the LT18 but good customer service is piece of mind. It is also around $500 dollars cheaper than the S440P.

My last choice is the Grizzly G0636X. I've never owned anything Grizzly and I know they are not built in Italy or NA but from what I've read, their customer service is outstanding. The G0636X is meant to compete with Italian saws, so they have most of the same options as the other 2. The table is the largest of the bunch at 25.5 X 21 and it is the heaviest at 784lbs shipped (not acutally sure assembled weight but must be pretty heavy). It is also the cheapest of the bunch at around $1500 less than the S440P (if I did my math and currency conversion right).

All 3 have 5hp 220v motors, resaw height is between 18.5" and 16". Throat size between 17" and 15". Seeing as I don't have a bandsaw yet, I can only guess that having a larger table is important for stability. In that case the Grizzly comes out on top. But I also want something rock solid that I can use for resawing, ripping and doing joinery cuts. I plan on putting on a 1" resaw king or similar blade and leaving it like that. Geez, decisions are hard :)

Joel,

Please let me know if would like to see and touch a S400P, since you are probably living less than 30 minutes away.

Jacques

[derek labian]

Hi Joel, I too put my hands on this series 440/540/640 series recently. High quality builds. You wont be disappointed in the 440.

[JOEL MONGEON]

Jacques, thank you very much for the generous offer. I think I'll take you up on that!

I don't know what you schedule is like but I'll message you later. I'm off to Pontiac QC for some thanksgiving fun.

[Jacques Gagnon]

��

Happy Turkey everybody��!

PS: Thanksgiving weekend in Canada

[JOEL MONGEON]

Just another quick update. I still don't have a bandsaw BUT someone from Felder got in touch with me and now I've added the Felder FB 510 to my list, which I've also narrowed considerably.

Right now it's between the SCM S440P and Felder FB 510 with Laguna LT18 distant 3rd.

I've not been able to view a MiniMax in person, hopefully next week. Kid with a cold and dog going to emergency vet threw my week off.

So far top of my list is FB 510 as it has largest table, I can get extension tables for it, has a bit more weight, a bit larger throat (almost 19"). The Felder rep confirmed that the FB 510 has a foot brake (documentation does not mention this at all).

MiniMax seems to be very popular on this forum. Price is a bit less (mostly due to shipping costs between Montreal and Toronto). Resaw height is better here, table is a bit higher and motor is beefier.

Laguna LT18 by far the cheapest, most HP, highest resaw capacity. However, from what I can tell, no Canadian service centers. Both Felder and SCM have service centers nearby (2hrs for SCM and 5-6 hrs for Felder). The table is just a tiny bit smaller than the Felder one but 2.5" larger than the MiniMax.

466460

I think I should also take a step back at this point and go over why I want a bandsaw. I feel like I'm still pretty new at woodworking and don't have a bandsaw yet. I started with a tracksaw and MFT3. It worked for the most part but ripping thin boards became very tedious. I picked up a sawstop JSS pro to help with that with the idea of upgrading to a cabinet saw when I had the whole garage to myself (I share it with the family bikes). Top priority for me is safety, hence the sawstop, I do this as a hobby and no way do I want to loose a digit. I understand that with blade guards and some concentration a bandsaw is considered even safer than a table saw because it cannot kickback.

Lately I've been using more and more hand tools and am loving it. I recently resawed some wood to make a box and tried that by hand. What a literal pain! My tendonitis flared up for a few days after that. I'm looking at getting a bandsaw to do some resawing but would mostly do ripping and some joinery cuts. I have a router table attached to my wall cabinet for things like dados and I mostly use my table saw for rip cuts. The rest of my projects can be done on either my SCMS or track saw with MFT 3 or STM table. I also have my wife's scrollsaw that I've used for the odd joinery cut. It has worked but is too small of a blade to be accurate and has no fence.

I assume a small 10"-14" bandsaw is kind of like the scrollsaw, wrong tool for the job. I assume a much larger higher end band saw with a wider blade could replace a tablesaw for a lot of the cuts I'm looking to safely make. I'd just hate to make a large investment in a Felder or MiniMax and find it really doesn't do what I thought it would.

[Phillip Mitchell]

I don’t have direct experience with Felder or Minimax bandsaws, but have lots of experience on an older LT18. Its was a decent bandsaw, but not outstanding. I’m sure the new ones are probably a bit more refined and nicer than the late 90s model I worked with.

I don’t think you’ll be disappointed with any of the 3 choices you’ve narrowed down to thus far. All 3 of the bandsaws you’re considering are nice quality machines. I would look at the differences in the fences - how easily they adjust, how stout they are, etc. Larger tables and wider throat are very nice to have. Quality and ease of adjustment of the guides becomes a big factor over the long haul. Not having had a bandsaw prior to this, you are in a position to learn from scratch and appreciate any of the styles of guides. I personally like the Laguna ceramic guides, but Euro guides are nice as well. I have an older 500mm Italian saw that had Euro guides and I recently retrofitted it with Laguna ceramic guides after having the Euro guides for 4 years or so. Easier to adjust in my book and they work just as well if not better for me. Matter of preference, really.

The big thing after all that is getting a quality blade and learning how to properly set it, set the guides, and tension the blade.

I can highly recommend a Lenox Woodmaster CT 1” 1.3 tpi carbide toothed blade for any non curved work like ripping, resawing, and joinery. I would think any of those 3 could properly tension it.

Is the Felder made in Austria or elsewhere?

[Jim Becker]

I think your two top choices are both worthy, so the decision comes down to money, availability and any small, unique feature that puts one over the other "for you".

[Mike Kees]

Joel ,I am not sure that you entirely need the machines you are looking at for your intended uses. I have a Centauro CO 600 (24") bandsaw as well as a 14 Delta in my shop. What you just posted for use could be covered with the Delta. I use my Centauro as a material breakdown machine. Everything from cutting logs into lumber ,Resawing boards and lots of ripping to rough width. It lives with a wide blade permanently mounted on it. The Delta does all the smaller scale and finer work ,but even without a riser block it can Resaw 6'' high. My Delta runs with a 3/8'' x 4tpi blade pretty well all the time. (mostly because I bouught a coil 538' long off the 'bay') . The newer SCM saws are no longer made by Centauro so I have no idea what they are or how they would compare to the older ones. No experience with Laguna or Felder bandsaws either. I do own other machines by each of these manufacturers and would say quality is very good either way.

[Alex Zeller]

A bandsaw is very handy tool to have. Most likely you'll find yourself doing more than you realize with it. From what I read here there's two types of people, those who have two and those who only have one. I fall into the "only have one" group. I did have a 14" cast iron saw along with my 19" but I found that the larger table and the power overcame the resistance to swap blades so I rarely used the 14" saw and sold it. Bandsaws are mostly pretty safe however you should still be very cautious. Small pieces of wood can easy do unexpected things if the blade catches the wood and spins it vs cutting it. I bought mine for cutting blanks for turning on the lathe but keep finding new uses. The latest is doing inlays on my CNC router. I cut the inlay on a thick board 1/16" deep and then use the bandsaw to slice it like you would a veneer. It sounds like you are very close to picking up a "forever" tool.

[Jim Becker]

Joel ,I am not sure that you entirely need the machines you are looking at for your intended uses. I have a Centauro CO 600 (24") bandsaw as well as a 14 Delta in my shop. What you just posted for use could be covered with the Delta. I use my Centauro as a material breakdown machine. Everything from cutting logs into lumber ,Resawing boards and lots of ripping to rough width. It lives with a wide blade permanently mounted on it. The Delta does all the smaller scale and finer work ,but even without a riser block it can Resaw 6'' high. My Delta runs with a 3/8'' x 4tpi blade pretty well all the time. (mostly because I bouught a coil 538' long off the 'bay') . The newer SCM saws are no longer made by Centauro so I have no idea what they are or how they would compare to the older ones. No experience with Laguna or Felder bandsaws either. I do own other machines by each of these manufacturers and would say quality is very good either way.

I believe the current SCM/Minimax bandsaws are made by ACM now. As to "need"...beauty is in the eye of the beholder and a big machine offers more opportunity over time without rebuying if funds are available up front.

[Erik Loza]

For MANY years, I was (as many here know) 100% team "Centauro-or-Nothing". And I still think there is Centauro, then the rest. This being said, I have sort of come to the realization that most any big, heavy bandsaw will handle 99% of the needs for us weekend warriors. Sure, we can debate the merits of this or that feature but it's just a vertical saw with two moving parts. I've seen enough customers with little Hammer bandsaws (which I would have totally laughed at back in the day) that do awesome stuff and love their machines that it has forced me to the realization that as long as you are getting the cutting capacities you want and can tension the blade you need, the rest is subjective.... *but would still totally drive a state away to get up a used MM if I needed one*

Erik

[Mike Kees]

I only said what I said because the OP stated his intended use was as a " one machine for all bandsaw tasks " thing. As well as having limited space available in his shop. In my mind consideration should be given to machines that are more all purpose rather than the Resaw specific machines being examined now. I used to own a Steel City 18'' saw that was about the best size/compromise for a one machine shop that I have used. I think 17-20 wheels are the sweet spot for a one bandsaw shop. I would also consider how easy blade changes will be on any machine I was considering. I am thankful that I did not have the funds to buy my forever machines upfront ,the journey of buying and selling /using helped define exactly what I really needed and ultimately ended up with. To the OP ,good luck whatever you decide .

[Erik Loza]

100% agree with Mike ^^^: If someone wants “just one bandsaw to do it all”, then I would get something in the 16”-18” range (your choice of mfr), ideally with FLAT WHEELS. Most of these will have around 12” resaw height and do most anything the average ww’er needs. Put a 1/2” Timberwolf on there go to town. When I was doing the trade show circuit back in the Italian days, the two blades I always demo’ed with were a 1.0” Lenox Tri-Master (the Woodmaster CT was not known then, otherwise I would have gone with it) and a 1/2” Timberwolf skip-tooth blade.

However, if your work is very bandsaw-centric, then you really should own two bandsaws. Any little 14-incher (with a 1/4” blade), then a heavy duty machine with a 3/4” or 1.0” blade. The heavy duty saws “could” be made to work with a 3/8” or 1/4” blade but any time I had to re-fit one for a blade like that, was always like, “Man, wish I had a saw just for this”.

Erik

[roger wiegand]

So I did "everything" bandsaw related on a 14" Delta with a riser block for most of the last 50 years. And it worked. Resaw up to the limits of the saw (~13" IIRC) plus every other bandsaw task imaginable, including cutting bowl blanks in green wood to shape. I did burn out the motor when I was young and foolish and popped a much bigger (2 hp) motor in in its place. I just replaced the tires recently and long ago I changed the guides to carter bearings. I managed to bend the upper wheel adjusting plate (a cast iron replacement for the pot metal part was available on ebay-- a big upgrade) and I stripped the tension adjuster rod. Got an aftermarket replacement with a handwheel that is a dream to use after the miniature Delta original part.

Last year I had the opportunity to acquire a Centauro-made MM20 and have to say I'm in love all over again. Resawing has become a breeze rather than a somewhat fraught and tedious chore. Once again my skills and abilities are limiting, not the saw's. Love the power! Really happy to have it in the shop. It's not perfect, changing blades is a real PITA due in large part to the "driftmaster" fence it came with that needs to be completely removed to open the doors far enough to change the blade. It came with a big carbide blade and I haven't changed it out yet, though the cut is more ragged than I think the saw is capable of (the prior owner told me it needed replacing when I bough the saw)

I'm keeping the Delta as well with skinny blades on it for any curved work or smaller work. Blade changes on it are a 2 minute task, so pretty easy.

[lowell holmes]

I have a full size roll around stand with a 14" Jet on it.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Delta-14-in-Mobile-Base-for-28-206-Band-Saw-with-Enclosed-Stand-50-274/205112200

https://www.lowes.com/search?searchTerm=bandsaw+roll+around+base

[JOEL MONGEON]

Great replies everyone, I appreciate the discussion. Seeing as I am in a single car garage I can't see myself becoming a 2 bandsaw kind of woodworker. I've been getting by with a doing curves using my scrollsaw and or jigsaw to create templates then using the router table to cut the final pieces. My primary use for bandsaw would be more of tablesaw replacement.

I see your point Mike about a smaller delta bandsaw covering all the tasks. From what I've been reading it is more likely to drift and not make as straight cuts because they can't be tensioned enough. You mentioned in another post that you'd recommend a a saw with 17-20" wheels. All 3 of the saws I'm looking at fall in this category. So I'm assuming one of these would be what you consider "one machine for all bandsaw tasks". How would a 14" delta fit into that scenario? Aside from getting a lot taller, the footprint between a 14" and say a 19" isn't that much of a difference. Maybe 3" more when you consider a stand or cabinet that a 14" will sit on. I just went out to measure the footprint of my wife's scrollsaw I bought her. It is roughly 25" X 33" which is roughly the size of a large 18" bandsaw but the bandsaw will see a whole lot more use.

While I decide and wait for my saw to show up I'm going to be making more room by getting rid of the scrollsaw and Dewalt planer tables/stands and making a cabinet that will fit both tools. I'll just slide them out and clamp them to a benchtop when I want to use them.

What is really making me lean towards the Felder are the 6" X 12" table extensions that quickly attach to any of the 3 sides. I tapped up a rough approximation of the Felder's table size of the tablesaw I currently have. From the front to the blade is about the same distance as a tablesaw but I like that I can quickly put an extension as infeed or outfeed to make much safer cuts. They also have a much longer extension table that I could always pick up later on. I know I can always make my own table extensions but I'd rather be working that fiddling with how to attach it and level it. It reminds me of the MFT 3 I got. I bought the extension table for that and love how easily it can be attached to any side and is perfectly level. I use it maybe 50% of the time depending on what I'm doing.
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I think I'm putting way too much thought into this :)

[Rick Potter]

I agree.

May I suggest you store your table saw a while. You may find you will need it.

[Mike Kees]

Joel I do not know what exactly you intend to make/do in your shop. I also have never attempted to replace a table saw with a bandsaw. So with those two observations I would think that a bandsaw would/could work quite well if you worked exclusively with solid wood most of the time. I have read of quite a few guys who do this and use a tracksaw for sheet goods if and when needed. When I read your first post I was thinking bandsaw in addition to your table saw hence the Delta suggestion. If you are thinking of a" one bandsaw replace the table saw" then definitely the bigger machines are where you would have the most versatility. The Felder/Minimax saws that you were talking about are in the cry once/enjoy forever level of machines. The delta level machines work very well for what they were designed for, essentially running a 1/4''-3/8'' band width. Where things go wrong is when guys put a 3/4'' band on them and try to tension it. This usually happens after a riser block is installed. Next the full leap down the rabbit hole , stronger tension springs, reinforced upper wheel hinge ,bigger motor all trying to make a machine do something it was not designed for . Resawing wood has divided the larger bandsaw world into two main types of saws . General do everything types like Grizzly 513-514 saws or Laguna 18 BX. Or the more Resaw specific saws like Minimax MM16,MM20 etc. The main differences are the Resaw height of a saw and the beefiness of said saws. Grizzly's Go 636 is a lot heavier than there 513 models. Horsepower shows up as well ,when you start seeing 4-5h.p. motors these saws are usually more Resaw designed. A lot of the Resaw specific saws also have a lower table height which may or may not affect your uses. Hopefully some of this information helps you in some way.

[Evan Van Dyke]

So, can I ask why you excluded Rikon back at the beginning of this thread? I ask because I just went through the same search you are doing, and I settled on the Rikon 10-347 (delivered yesterday, yay!). I got it for about 50% of the cost of the SCM/Felder saws ($2400), and for my needs (ripping and resawing) it seems like it will do everything I need... 4HP motor, foot brake, tall adjustable fence, big table, large resaw capacity. I just can't justify spending over $5K for a saw which (at this point in my woodworking career) I likely won't be able to tell the differences. If I sawed veneer all day, every day, then I could see the attraction. But I'm headed more in a hybrid direction, and the BS work will all be cleaned up with hand-planes anyways. I thought about it for joint work, but honestly a good backsaw is faster than setting up the bandsaw anyways.

Interested to hear what you end up with- do let us know.

[Tom Bender]

Get the band saw, keep the table saw and turf the chop saw.

[JOEL MONGEON]

Happy Holidays and thank you all for the helpful replies. It's been a while since I wrote back and thought I'd give an update since I have a few quiet minutes.
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I received my FB510 on Nov 17 (after delaying delivery due to family obligations). I was super excited to see the delivery truck arrive at my house. Tucked in the back of the truck was my bandsaw! It was a little exciting getting the palette over the threshold of my garage but the driver and I eventually got it. I then had more emergencies pop up so was not able to touch my saw for a few days. It looked huge boxed up in the middle of my garage!

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About a week later I got my brother in law to help get the bandsaw off the palette with some moving shoulder straps. It was very easy and fast to do this. I then set up the machine and was able to do a zoom call with Rod from Felder the next day to go through set up and my first cut.

A day or two later I had to again stop using my saw and quickly build some proper stairs into my shop. I had been using a plastic fold up step stool since I installed my flooring last winter. It gave up and I fell through the step. Once I build my new stairs I was able to get my saw set up in it's final position and run some 5" dust collection hose to the outlet.

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I've since bought a few magswitch featherboards and magnetic clamps. I also bought a UJK bandsaw buddy for blade alignment.

So far I'm super pleased with everything. It is a big beefy machine. I've got a 1" Ripper bandsaw blade from R&D on it. I bought one cast iron extension table which is a great addition. I might need to buy a second one so I can have both infeed and outfeed. I also bought a miter guide. I wasn't as happy with the extrusion for that so I cannibalized my Incra miter guage Incra miter guage so I could have an extra long extrusion and stop.

I have to say, dealing with Felder Canada was a real pleasure. Rod Sheridan made the whole process great. He was able to answer all my questions promptly either through a few nice phone calls or emails. He even set aside some time for a zoom call when I was ready to get my machine up and running. One of the reasons I did decide to go with Felder was that the machine itself was built in Austria and that the dealer here in Canada is extremely helpful and easy to reach for answering questions. My bandsaw is so large and expensive I did not want to buy from a store and have a problem they would not help solve. Felder Canada is a few hours away from my location and I've been told that if I need service they can send someone out to my house. I'd hate to buy a machine that did not have such great support.

I do have a few questions that I would like help with. When my bandsaw is running I notice that the machine seems to rock a bit. I'm thinking that is because of the mobility kit and that it is not resting on the concrete floor but a layer of dricore and cork flooring. I tried putting a yoga mat underneath to dampen vibrations but it only helps a little. I'm wondering it I can put a few 2x4's under the front and back of the saw and screw the saw to that. Would that help dampen the vibrations? Or maybe just find the spot where it will be permanent and remove the mobility kit and just have it restintag directly on the cork floor.

I also noticed when using the ceramic guides that the guide post would vibrate/shake quite a bit. This is when the guide is extended almost completely. Now that I have a 1" blade on the saw I am not using the guides and the whole assembly isn't shaking when the saw is on.

The tires are flat on the FB510 but I'm wondering about blade tracking. Under tension I see the blade lean left or to the right depending on where the blade is on the wheels. The table on the FB510 cannot be rotated so I want to try and figure out how to get the blade to track parallel to the miter slot. I'm using the UJK bandsaw buddy on the blade to determine if it is parallel or not.

That's about it for now. Bottom line, this is great big solid saw. I'm very happy with it. Any questions I have have to do with my lack of experience with bandsaws. Thanks again to Rod for originally reaching out to me. I'll try to reply to any questions or comments but might be a bit slow as the kids are out of school for the holidays and maybe doing virtual learning in the new year.

[Jacques Gagnon]

Joel,

Thanks for the update; I am happy to know that everything went well and that you are enjoying it.

I look forward to visit and see it in action once things settle down.

Regards,

J.

[JOEL MONGEON]

Thanks Jacques, I cannot wait for this wave to be over and have people over.

So I've got a resaw king blade on order but have no idea when it will arrive. Laguna said to order through any of their Canadian dealers to avoid paying an $80 duty but there has been zero communication as to when I can expect it. Maybe I should have bought a Lennox Tri-Master blade instead.

I'm thinking I want to order a second larger aluminum table so I can have it as an infeed table over the front gap where you install the blade. The cast iron table isn't wide enough to clamp down onto the f bracket. I also just noticed poking around the Felder site that I can get a laser for my bandsaw. I gotta say I'm very tempted to get a laser! Can't have enough lasers in my life :)

I just put the final touches on my first bandsaw project. It is not a piece of high end furniture but rather a simple mitten rack that my wife has been bugging me to make. I started with a 1x10 pine board and used my bandsaw to rip everything to size. The joinery was done using hand tools so I could experiment making angled dadoes and through mortise and tenon joints. My favorite part of this little project was getting help from my oldest kid. He helped dad do the initial measurements for the base. He then got bored and went to play with Transformers, but still, a win!

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[Jacques Gagnon]

…winter is always more enjoyable when mittens are happy :D!

I am curious to see what others will contribute; I have never felt the need for a laser on the bandsaw but will be happy to be prove wrong 😁.

A Lenox blade has been on my list for a while.

Salut,

J.

[Christopher Charles]

Congrats Joel, looks like a great saw. I have never, ever used a miter gage on my 18" Agazanni and unless you have need for lots of crosscutting on your bs, I doubt you'd get a lot of return on spending the time to align the miter slot, especially if you have table saw already. That table extension would be nice as an outfeed. I've found that roller stands are helpful for larger pieces (as long as 14'); not sure an infeed table would be all that helpful (and I'd be running into it all the time in my small shop!).

I have noticed i'll get vibration with mine on a mobility base if I don't get both leveling feet with an equal(ish) amount of weight on them.

Personally, I have a laser on my drill press that I also never use and honestly can't imagine how one on a bandsaw would helpful, even though it does sound kinda cool!

Nice project and I'm sure you'll enjoy your saw. I like mine now more than I did when I bought it in 2008...

Best,
Chris