Workshop/garage design ideas

[Zachary Hoyt]

I am going to need to build a workshop in the yard of the house I recently bought, probably next spring. My income is solely derived from stuff I make in a workshop, and the house is under 1000 square feet so I can't put it in there. My plan is to build a workshop that can be easily converted into a garage by the future owner of the house if they wish. I anticipate living in this house for 1-5 years or so and eventually building a house and workshop on a larger lot with more room for gardening and selling this house.

I've been thinking of something in the two car garage size range with an upstairs that I would use for 'clean' jobs, packing shipments, and storage. The town allows monolithic slabs, and being in the Adirondacks I imagine the frost line is pretty deep, maybe 4 feet. If I had a monolithic slab poured 20x24 would it be feasible to use 2x12x20 on 16" centers to support the upstairs floor, or is that too big of a span for joists? Is there another kind of floor support beam I could use without a center post that would be better?

Another alternative is to make something like 24x24 with attic trusses and a monolithic slab. I have never built with trusses and am not fond of them because of the way they chop up the space under the roof and make it much less useful, and also they are expensive, but the cheaper foundation might offset the truss cost.

A third alternative I have thought of is to have a real foundation with a footer, wall and floating slab. If this was 24x24 I could put a footer in the center for a support post, add a beam down the center and use 12' 2x10 or 2x12 for joists. I don't know how much of a disadvantage it would be in a garage to have a center post instead of a clear span.

If anyone has any experiences with these methods or suggestions about what I should build I will be very grateful for advice. I have built a number of outbuildings here on the farm where I currently live, but the big two have interior posts to support the upper floor. The largest one I built was 6 years ago, and is 28x48 with a tall loft, so the scale of this building is not daunting to me, but I have never built or even lived with a garage so I am doubtful as to the parameters for them. Thank you very much for taking time to read this.

[Jamie Buxton]

Instead of solid lumber joists, look into manufactured joists, aka I-joists. They look a bit like I-beams, but they're built from plywood and OSB. They can be found in long lengths, and in tall heights, so they can make your 24x24 upper floor without support posts.

[Jim Becker]

I was going to say the same thing as Jamie...I-joints. They would probably be 12"-ers but it has to be properly engineered. The shop at my old property used them for this purpose and they were rock-solid. And straight.

One thing to know about putting a "garage" on the property is that you may be required to slope the floor which is a bit of a pain for a workshop situation...I just lived with that for over 20 years and it sometimes complicated things.

[Kevin Jenness]

What Jamie said. You need to size the floor structure for the expected load, but 20' 2x12's won't support a lot. I built my original 24'x36' shop with 2x12's 16" o.c. because I had the material left over from building my house (sawn from our woodlot), but they rest on a 6x12 beam with two posts down the center of the first floor. The second floor carries a s--t-ton of weight but the posts below are a definite impediment to workflow and if I were starting from scratch I would design them out.

For my foundation I did a monolithic slab with thickened edges, but I built it on top of a 4' deep trench filled with compacted stone and drainage to daylight as the soil here has a lot of clay. Both my house and shop were built with this foundation and have endured 35 years with no problems.

[Ron Selzer]

Structural engineer is well worth the money. Will actually save you money as you will build what meets your needs and not overbuild or underbuild and then beef it up.
You have time to explore options and figure out maximum bang for your dollar now and then build in spring.

I prefer floor truss made from 2x4 material, you can tuck all of your electrical, dust collection, plumbing etc. in the joists as long as you think it out and plan ahead
Garage now is 20x20. last garage was 26x34(fit the place it was). 20x20 is tight. neither one has any posts and the 26x32 had a steel beam installed to carry second floor.
Basement has two posts that could have been one placed in line with stairway and furnace out of the road, instead of being out in middle of two different spaces IF a larger steel beam was used

Highly recommend foam insulation under the concrete floor and around the outside.
Might consider not calling it a garage unless zoning forces you to.

Good luck
Ron

[Zachary Hoyt]

Thank you all very much for your help. The idea of I joists is very interesting, and the floor trusses look even handier but maybe also harder to find up here. I don't think there is any need to call it a garage when I build it, but my goal is to make it something that could be used as a garage by a future owner who I imagine probably wouldn't want a workshop in the yard. I had thought a little about doing a pier foundation and wood first floor since that would be cheaper to build, but it would not be as versatile for the next owner.

How should I go about looking for a structural engineer? Is it important to find one who is more or less in the area I'm moving to or is that not important? I've never worked with one before. I appreciate all the advice.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

It's easy to get an engineered solution, go to the lumber yard and ask them about a truss package. They will be custom designed to your specs by a structural engineer, included in the price. Your town will likely require that the roof have an engineer stamp anyhow, ordering trusses gets there. You can build a 24' span floor with TJI, but you will find that trusses are cheaper. With 24' span on TJI I would be going for at least L/360 with 40 PSF live load and 20 PSF dead load. That means 14" series 360 Weyerhauser on 16" centers. $6.23/ft here. If you do that, you also need a roof that doesn't encroach, so more TJI which are a slow way to build roofs. And most importantly that approach would also require an engineered ridge beam. Just use trusses, you won't regret the weeks saved and the 1/4 price.

[Zachary Hoyt]

Thanks, that sounds like good advice. I've never used trusses but I'm not opposed to them, and I'll call the lumberyard and see what I can find out.

[John K Jordan]

...
How should I go about looking for a structural engineer? Is it important to find one who is more or less in the area I'm moving to or is that not important? I've never worked with one before. I appreciate all the advice.

I asked an architect friend to recommend a local structural engineer and he sent me to the one he uses. The guy worked over the phone for my simple job and the cost was far more reasonable than I expected.

You can get trusses with open attic space in the center and truss lumber on the outer edges and above. A builder friend put those in his own house. He built cabinets into the angled spaces on the outside. Made for an excellent upstairs room. The room is small than the full width of the floor due to the sloped roof. If you want a full floor, go with the full engineered solution which will include enough strength in the 1st floor walls. When I designed a shop like this, I used concrete block walls but properly designed wood stud walls will work as well. My current shop uses 6x6 post-and-beam construction with 2x6 studs. Great for insulation, especially if part of this building will be a living space at some point.

If you are using the upper room for working and possibly wood storage, be certain to communicate the estimated loads to the structural engineer (or to the truss company who will have their own structural engineering design software.)

If building as a garage use well insulated garage doors.. I asked for insulated doors and got a quote but when the company was out of those they substituted industrial insulated doors. These were not only heavier duty, thicker steel, and better insulation but the cost was lower.

BTW, if planning for a 2-car garage consider making it wide enough for 6-10' on either side of the garage bays and long enough for workspace, storage, or freezer in addition to the longest car/truck that might be parked there. The garage attached to my house has these things plus one bay is about 6' longer than the other, using space not needed by the stairs to the upper level. Very handy when I wanted to park my tractor there with an implement attached.

Planning on moving in 1-5 years? Yikes, better get cracking!!. Took me three years just to build my shop, but that was working by myself including everything from site prep to electrical wiring. I'm a firm believer in underground wiring. Run extra conduit just in case, empty except for a pull rope inside. I added a third conduit on the other side of the trench for an ethernet cable.

[Jim Becker]

John's comment about upper floor loading is very, very important as it impacts the design of the trusses and cost.

[Zachary Hoyt]

Thank you for the detailed advice. I don't anticipate that I will want to store more than 3-400 board feet at a time, and often less. The woods I work with are mainly cherry, curly red maple, walnut and African mahogany, so I don't anticipate even as much as a ton of total lumber up there, and it will be spread out by species. I will also have a couple of work tables and such up there, but the loading should not be any more than if it was being used for living space.

This building is to be a temporary shop for the 1-5 years I will be planning to live there, so it doesn't have to be ideal in all respects. I am planning to hire the concrete work out, as I am not good at that, and I should be able to have the rest of it ready to use within a month or so of work, I think. I may also have to hire an electrician to install a sub panel and wiring, I haven't asked the CEO about that yet.

I won't want garage doors, but I'll plan to make it easy to add them later if a future owner wants them. I build musical instruments and my tools are not huge, so everything I use or produce can easily go in and out a 36" door.

[John K Jordan]

...a ton of lumber up there....
I think of that every time I take my pet elephant upstairs. :)

Planning for future garage doors would be kind and might be a good selling point in the future. I recently took out two 9' garage doors and replaced them with one 16' door. We had to construct a header appropriate for the load-bearing wall on the second story. Would have been a lot easier if that was added when constructed. Also, I'd be careful to route any electrical cables up and around the potential garage door space. If any outlets were needed on that wall feed them straight down from boxes up next to the ceiling. This would allow them to be easily removed if someone put in a garage door a some point.

Also, consider the placement of the man door if the building were ever turned into a garage, and an emergency exit door, perhaps near the opposite corner.

If the ceiling is enclosed, a ceiling outlet or two for a future garage door opener would be a nice addition, along with low-voltage control wires run above the ceiling. When I bought this house there was a circle drawn on the sheet rock at the entrance door with the label "garage door opener wires behind this spot."

If not planning a garage door, consider adding a double door. You can still use it as a man door but open it wider just when needed. You may not need it for a guitar or cello but a wide door might be a good selling point for a future owner. I put three external insulated steel double doors on my shop, each opening to 5' (and two more inside). This makes it a lot easier to get equipment and things in and out. (and to open wide when the weather is nice!)

One last thing which has made going to my shop MUCH nicer. I put good Schlage keypad locks on external doors. I carry no keys and can always get into the shop. These do have keys just in case but one 9v battery lasts for years. I use the deadbolt type that require manually turning the deadbolt when unlocking. I know someone who has one which retracts the deadbolt electrically but the battery doesn't last as long. For all my doors I use levers instead of knobs so I can open the door with my elbow when my hands are full.

JKJ

[Zachary Hoyt]

Thank you, those are all great ideas. I will need to figure out the potential future door location and plan accordingly, but I am not planning any electrical on that wall. My plan was to have the person door on the end away from the road, so it shouldn't interfere. I'll have to do some measuring and thinking once I can actually get onto the property to make it all work out. I had been wondering about a 16' door versus two 9' doors and wondering which a potential imaginary person might be likely to prefer, but without much success.

I think I will likely leave the ceiling open, but am not sure yet. If I do enclose it the opener ideas will be very helpful. I am a big believer in levers instead of knobs too, we have them on all the outside doors on the converted barn I've been living in for the last 20 years. Aside from being able to open the doors easily we have concrete floors in the first floor and can roll a wheelbarrow right in through the living room when we need to bring in a lot of garlic to process or anything like that. I've not lived in a place where I had to lock doors much, but I will start locking things up there since I will not be there all the time like I am here. I'll have to look for those keypad locks, they sound very handy.

[Zachary Hoyt]

I think of that every time I take my pet elephant upstairs. :)

I was thinking that that was a pretty minimal load, in some ways. I built a 20x28 sawmill building and have had as much as 2,000 board feet of wet hardwood lumber in that loft at a time, which must have weighed 5 or 6 tons at a guess, or maybe more. I cut all the lumber for the outbuildings here so they're all rough cut full dimensional sizes. That building has 2x6 studs on 16" centers with 2x10 joists nailed to them at the appropriate height and a pair of house trailer I beams down the center under the oerlapping joists with an 8x8 center post.

[John K Jordan]

... I'll have to look for those keypad locks, they sound very handy.


I've bought them from Home Depot and Amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000NJJ1MQ
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0007PNP2I

Have two in the shop and four in the house.

Schlage is a good company too. I had one go bad after about a year and they sent me a free replacement, no return needed.


I also have one of these on the inside door of my sunroom and I DON'T like it. It will still open to exit even if unlocked so if I forget to turn the lever and go out I have to key in the code to get back in. It's also not a deadbolt. I use strong deadbolts on all exterior doors.
https://www.amazon.com/Schlage-FE595-CAM-626-ACC

Perhaps I'm paranoid - I live in the middle of 27 acre farm with dogs outside so I could probably leave the doors unlocked all the time but I don't at night. Hate to have to waste a perfectly good 9mm cartridge.

JKJ

[Zachary Hoyt]

I prefer Schlage door levers to the others I've tried, and am glad to know about the keypad lock option. We live right by the road, but we don't lock anything even when we are gone for the day, because nobody can tell whether we've all gone away or just one of us. If we go away overnight next year during the home renovation and shop build we'll have to find out which keys fit the current levers so we can lock the two main buildings, but I don't know about the outbuildings since they don't have doors that can be locked.

[John K Jordan]

... we'll have to find out which keys fit the current levers so we can lock the two main buildings, but I don't know about the outbuildings since they don't have doors that can be locked.

Any locksmith or even the guy at Home Depot can rekey the locks, if you want them all the same.

[Zachary Hoyt]

I don't mind them being different, I just will have to take the keys around and find which ones go where and mark them accordingly, and scrap the ones that don't fit anywhere. I buy Schlage entry door levers on eBay and get whichever style is cheapest at the moment. I bought two to take with me when I can go to the new house, and I'll be able to tell them apart because one is sort of pseudo-bronze and wavy and the other is shiny silver colored and straight, and the keys match the colors. I got both sets for $35 or a bit less combined, so it was much cheaper than in the store. All I want for now is to be able to go in and out when I want to, and to lock the doors when I'm gone.

[Jim Becker]

Something we did at our old property, which will likely be duplicated when I get a building up, is to keep the house and the shop separately, but have a master key that works with both. It makes for providing access to the house without doing the same for the shop for safety and other reasons. Stick with one brand of lockset...I also prefer Schlage as does our locksmith resource.

[Zachary Hoyt]

I didn't know that it was possible to have a key that opens two different locks like that. It sounds handy. I must have been living under even more of a rock than I had supposed all these years.

[Jim Becker]

Master key systems sometimes get forgotten, but can be really useful in situations like this where the "owner" can have the convenience of one key, but have differentiated access to multiple structures. At our previous property, for example, we could give a key to a pet-sitter to take care of our birds while on vacation that would allow them into the house, but not allow them into my shop building. That, combined with a temporary alarm code, made for a lot of convenience. Our older daughter also had a "house only" key due to her emotional issues and couldn't access my shop where there were lots of sharp things. (we had a lock on the knife drawer in the kitchen, too) The house-only keys were also numbered so we could keep track of them. For someone that has a side (or primary) business on their residential site, the converse can be true...a worker/assistant/partner can have access to the shop without having access to the home, but the owner has one key access to both.

[John K Jordan]

Master key systems sometimes get forgotten, but can be really useful in situations like this where the "owner" can have the convenience of one key, but have differentiated access to multiple structures. At our previous property, for example, we could give a key to a pet-sitter to take care of our birds while on vacation that would allow them into the house, but not allow them into my shop building. ...

That's also an advantage to using digital keypad entry locks but with a bit more flexibility: you can assign different codes and change them when desired. For example, I use a "master" code for all my locks on two buildings. I encode a temporary code for the farm sitter to enter one section of the house to feed the cats.

We have the same flexibility on the keypad that opens our security gate.

I ask the person to supply a code he can remember. No physical keys to keep up with.

JKJ

[Jim Becker]

Yes, that's the same general idea, John. At the time, "digital keypad" locks were not really an option like they are now. I thought about putting one here on the new house, but decided to just use a key for now. Maybe when I have a shop building built I'll reconsider and do the keypad thing.

[Zachary Hoyt]

I just got a quote from a lumberyard's truss supplier, and it would be about $5k for conventional attic trusses for a 24x24 building, with a 2x8 bottom chord, and about $6k for gambrel attic trusses. I am back to either having a full foundation to frost, so I can have a center post and a beam and use 2x12x12 floor joists, or else I'll have to do a 14x28 portable building or so on skids. I haven't looked for foundation estimates yet, I want to get a definite idea of the location and measure any slope, though it looks like not much from the road.

[Jim Becker]

While I'm not the biggest fan of Gambrel style, they do offer the biggest upstairs space without building a true second floor plus a roof truss system. Those truss prices don't seem too far out of line to me, honestly.

Personally, I'm likely going to look at post frame for my shop building when the time comes; either traditional wood or metal based on a "carport" type structure. I'd prefer the former for a lot of reasons, but could live with the latter. I don't plan for a second floor, however, although there may be a small loft over the DC/Compressor closet for material storage.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

5K for the truss package is a little higher than here, but not very far off. Buildings are expensive.

[Zachary Hoyt]

I didn't mean to say they were out of line, just more than I would be willing to pay for what I would get. For about $2500 at current prices I could get enough 2x12 to make a triple beam and do 16" floor joist spacing, 2x8x16 rafters on 16" centers, and 2x6 side walls 4 feet tall and framing for the gable ends. Of course by next spring these prices may be higher or lower, but I figured it would make sense to compare the current truss prices and current lumber prices. I don't know how much effect lumber prices have on truss pricing. Another thing about trusses is that I would have to rent a telehandler or other lift of some kind to place them, while I can build a stick frame by hand, on my own. The center post wouldn't be in my way, and I imagine whoever comes next would manage to put up with it.

[John K Jordan]

You might also check into steel trusses. A neighbor just put up a building and said it was cheaper to go with steel trusses than wood. The steel trusses have built-in brackets to make fastening to beams and purlins simple and secure. Perhaps they are more useful for steel roofing, I don't know. I'm planning to add a 24x72' farm building this winter so I'll investigate soon.

When I built my 24x62 shop I used conventional wood trusses but specified 2x6 chords instead of 2x4. A friend hired a guy with a mobile crane and the roof went up very quickly with one crane operator and three guys on the roof. I think I paid the crane guy about $150. 2x4 purlins, sheathing, synthetic underlayment, galvalume roofing and it was finished in a day. My job was easy - lifting all the materials with forks on my tractor.

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JKJ



I didn't mean to say they were out of line, just more than I would be willing to pay for what I would get. For about $2500 at current prices I could get enough 2x12 to make a triple beam and do 16" floor joist spacing, 2x8x16 rafters on 16" centers, and 2x6 side walls 4 feet tall and framing for the gable ends. Of course by next spring these prices may be higher or lower, but I figured it would make sense to compare the current truss prices and current lumber prices. I don't know how much effect lumber prices have on truss pricing. Another thing about trusses is that I would have to rent a telehandler or other lift of some kind to place them, while I can build a stick frame by hand, on my own. The center post wouldn't be in my way, and I imagine whoever comes next would manage to put up with it.

[Jim Becker]

John's post eludes to an important thing to consider. While Trusses can cost what they do, there is great labor savings over stick building a deck and roof structure. That's one of the major reasons that builders opt for them as much as they do other than where unique situations dictate stick-built. That's less of a factor if you are building yourself, but even then, the time savings and reduced physical effort can be meaningful. It's not just about material cost, in other words.

[Zachary Hoyt]

There is indeed a labor (or a time) savings to trusses when working with a crew, but for me working by myself I think it might be just as quick to build with lumber joists and rafters. It would be a lot of up-and-down on the ladders and on and off the machine to get the trusses placed accurately, and worse if the lift had a seat switch. When I built the 28x48 building here I not only had to build it myself but first I had to cut down the trees, skid them to the mill, and make them into boards, so working with bought lumber that's dry and already cut will be quite a labor-saving feeling, for me. I can build a laminated center beam in place, one piece at a time, once the 1st story walls are framed, and once that's up I can nail on joist hangers and then go along and place the floor joists from the ground. The hard part would be lifting the 3/4" plywood sheets up to the second floor level, but I'd have to do that with trusses too and it wouldn't be too bad, just tiring.

[Jim Becker]

Rent a lift for the, um...lifting. No reason to do that kind of thing manually these days.

[Zachary Hoyt]

I figure it's good exercise to lift whatever I can lift, like sheets of plywood, but I wouldn't be able to lift trusses that size. I also use a push reel lawn mower for the same reason, and bicycle when convenient instead of driving.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

John's post eludes to an important thing to consider. While Trusses can cost what they do, there is great labor savings over stick building a deck and roof structure. That's one of the major reasons that builders opt for them as much as they do other than where unique situations dictate stick-built. That's less of a factor if you are building yourself, but even then, the time savings and reduced physical effort can be meaningful. It's not just about material cost, in other words.

Yes. Commercial builders' most valuable commodity is always time. We're always working against the clock from some angle. I've never done a roof where I had the luxury of open ended schedule. The weather, job schedules, machine use timelines, etc always dictate that the roof gets done fast. We typically set all trusses and outlooks, and sheeting with roof underlayment in a day or two. Once the weather stays out of the building and it isn't susceptible to wind damage, then we can slow up a bit.

[Zachary Hoyt]

I can see how time would be important in a commercial context, for sure. I have built several outbuildings during my time here at the farm and saving money has always been more important than saving time, within reason. I did rent a trackhoe to dig about 100 feet of foundation trench 3-4 feet deep. It cost $200 plus fuel for a day, and saved me over a week of hand digging. I tried digging by hand first and only got 10 linear feet in a day, so I gave up. In one spot I found a rock at the bottom of the trench that was fairly rectangular and about 2x5 feet and 10 inches thick. It took me an hour to get that out of the hole with the trackhoe, and I am sure I would never have gotten it out by hand. I liked running the trackhoe, it took about an hour to get comfortable with the controls but then it was great to be able to do so much so effortlessly.

[John K Jordan]

I liked running the trackhoe, it took about an hour to get comfortable with the controls but then it was great to be able to do so much so effortlessly.

I bought one a couple of years ago. I spent several days before I felt efficient at operating it. Simple digging was easy right off the bat, but coordinating the controls to work efficiently took some time. I've wondered how people without experience handled renting one. It took me half a day just to study the manuals, to know how to work, about the maintenance, and what to never, ever do.

I use mine almost daily, clearing brush, leveling and reshaping, building roads on the farm, lifting logs off the ground for chainsawing, and taking out even fairly large trees. Loaded a bandsaw with it into my truck to take to a woodworking demo yesterday. The reach and power of even a relatively small excavator is amazing. I saved up for 10 years for this one but I wish I could have been using it those 10 years.

Used it last week to pit-burn a large quantity of brush and dead trees when cleaning up a river lot. I know some other people with property - anyone interested in retiring to TN and living on the river? :) For some reason people seem to be moving to TN from all over the country, the frozen north, the burning west. Can't figure it out...

[Zachary Hoyt]

I got the 5 minute tutorial from the rental company driver, and then I just had to feel my way into it. At first I was very slow and made a lot of false moves, but after an hour or so I didn't have to think each control movement out as I was digging, I just thought what I wanted the arm to do and did it without thinking, which was much easier. I rented one again 7 years later to dig 20 holes for concrete piers for another building and it took about the same time for the ease of movement to come back. I never did much besides digging with the ones I rented, though. That's great to have one to use all the time, I'm sure it must be indispensable by now.

[John K Jordan]

I got the 5 minute tutorial from the rental company driver, and then I just had to feel my way into it. At first I was very slow and made a lot of false moves, but after an hour or so I didn't have to think each control movement out as I was digging, I just thought what I wanted the arm to do and did it without thinking, which was much easier. I rented one again 7 years later to dig 20 holes for concrete piers for another building and it took about the same time for the ease of movement to come back. I never did much besides digging with the ones I rented, though. That's great to have one to use all the time, I'm sure it must be indispensable by now.

With 27 acres there is ALWAYS some task, even if it's just moving dead trees fallen across a road or trail.

I tell people it's a woodturning machine. I can easily lift a 2000-3000 lb log and hold it at waist height to chainsaw pieces to make turning blanks. Also, nothing better for unloading logs from a trailer and setting them gently on the sawmill.

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One of the first "jobs" I used it for on the farm was to dig a 650' trench to run underground power in conduit to a new building site. Made it so quick, far better than a renting a ditch machine then digging out spill by hand.

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My favorite thing, though, is to put young people behind the controls and have give them the experience (in a safe place) of driving, digging, pushing some dirt, and moving a big rock or two. You should see the big grins!

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The problem I always had with renting equipment was the stress of trying to get as much done as possible in the time allowed. With machines there all the time (excavator plus skidsteer, tractor) life is so much more relaxing - I can work as much are as little as I want and on my own schedule! Somethings are so much fun I find myself switching on the lights to work (play) after dark. And since I'm elderly and feeble I got the version with the cab with heat and air. Take that, yellowjacket and hornet nests!

JKJ

[Brian Backner]

If you are planning to construct this shop so it can be used by a future owner as a garage, then it will probably have a garage door. When you have the structural engineer design the first floor ceiling for carrying the expected second floor loads, have him also design for attaching a steel beam to the first floor ceiling beyond the garage door over one of the bays to be used as a gantry crane. This way you can back a pickup or trailer into the bay and lift off a machine with ease. You can also pick up and place a heavy piece of equipment on a table for maintenance or put it on a rolling base, etc. This would be much handier than having a rolling gantry crane. The capacity can be anything within reason but make it a least a ton. While I started out with typical cabinet saws (500-600#), I was gradually seduced by much heavier, 3 phase industrial equipment. My current heaviest machine is a Crescent P24 planer (at ~ 4,000# - it was an adventure getting it up onto 6x6s so it could be moved with a pallet jack).

[Zachary Hoyt]

JKJ, that's great to be able to use things whenever you want to like that. We have a couple of older tractors here, one with a loader, but I don't need to be able to dig often enough to make it pay to keep any kind of excavating equipment. I've always been a cheapskate on a budget.

Brian Backner, thanks for the idea. It hadn't occurred to me. I can see the logic of putting in a header for the potential future garage doors as suggested above, since I imagine that the majority of people would want to have them, but to design for an I beam and crane seems less clear to me, as I imagine that only a smaller number of people would be interested in such a use and it would cost a lot more than just putting headers in a wall frame would.

[Jim Becker]

Yea, for "big power tools" that might have some reasonable frequency of use, owning is a nice thing. I feel that way about my "big orange power tool" (small Kubota tractor with a loader and backhoe)...it's done a huge amount of work over the past 18 years at our previous property. I'm going to move it here to the new place for a while to assist with my eventual shop build, but may not keep it long term because here, there's likely going to be very little work for it to do otherwise with only a half acre.

Zachary, were I you, I'd definitely put in the headers for future garage door(s) as it will be a helpful selling point when it's time to move on. Frame it up like a garage first and then "wall in" the doors separately so it would be easy to remove in the future when/if needed/desired. The only reason I wouldn't do this is if it would trigger something with the local jurisdiction that would force a sloped floor because of "garage". I know that when I put up my building, it's going to be permitted as a "residential accessory building" with no reference to "garage". It likely will not have any garage type doors, either, although a small one might be practical if I can weather seal it to my own satisfaction.

[Zachary Hoyt]

That's a good point about the sloped floor, I'll have to ask. Here we have a 1963 Massey-Ferguson 35 with a loader that belongs to the farm and is now mostly used for loading logs, and I bought and repaired a 1955 Farmall 300 that does the log skidding and haying and such. When I leave here I will probably sell the Farmall as it is more tractor than there is a use (or space) for on a 1/4 acre lot. In the long run I hope to build a house on 1 to 5 or so acres, and then I might need or want something for a while, but it would probably be more practical to rent or buy whatever machine may be needed when the time comes, since I don't know what kind of land I may be able to buy or what it will need to have done.

[Jim Becker]

Yes, rather than doing back-breaking work lifting things, rent something for that task and put your physical efforts into the actual building. :) I can assure you that when my building goes up and things transition from the contractor doing their thing to me doing the interior, I'll be leveraging some form of lift for both safety and to keep from killing myself!