Frustration With Rail & Stile Bits

[Ken Krawford]

I'm making some wainscot panels and found a rail & stile bit that's supposed to be for wainscoting. It specifies that it can be used either with the wall as the field or a 1/4" piece of paneling. I'm not going to have an inserted panel.
I've tried every adjustment I can think of but can't get this bit to work.
The bit in the first image is the style bit and the second one cuts the rails.


If you've got any suggestions, I'd be eternally grateful !!

Apologies for the image sizes. They were all the same size until I pasted them.
https://i.postimg.cc/0bRBVdZq/Style-Bit.jpg (https://postimg.cc/0bRBVdZq)

https://i.postimg.cc/HLthtMyf/Rail-bit.jpg (https://postimg.cc/d7L6sLnB)
https://i.postimg.cc/sx74Dds5/Screen-Shot-2021-09-27-at-1-38-39-PM.png (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/50FwndHD/IMG-2660.jpg (https://postimg.cc/7GwGZRnN)

[Patrick Kane]

What is the thickness of your rails and stiles? Most of those sets only work with workpiece thicknesses of 3/4-7/8".

Looking at your joint, i think your problem is the bit height is incorrect, OR your workpieces are too thick.

[Jared Sankovich]

That set only cuts the profile and cope, you have to do the rebate/rabbit separately.

I've never seen a set like that before.

[Ken Krawford]

Patrick I'm using 3/4" stock. The image shown is the only way I can get the concave/convex aspects of the two pieces to mate. I've tried many different bit heights of both bits but the two pieces never mate properly.

[Ken Krawford]

Jared I've never seen anything like it either. The rail & stile bits I've used before were super easy to set up and/or adjust. Since I'm not using a panel insert why would I cut a rabbit? In that case I would have used my door bit. The info on Amana's web site says it can be used with or without a panel insert.


That set only cuts the profile and cope, you have to do the rebate/rabbit separately.

I've never seen a set like that before.

[Richard Coers]

Maybe a little look at the instructions will help you. https://www.amanatool.com/articles/post/constructing_wainscot

[Jared Sankovich]

Jared I've never seen anything like it either. The rail & stile bits I've used before were super easy to set up and/or adjust. Since I'm not using a panel insert why would I cut a rabbit? In that case I would have used my door bit. The info on Amana's web site says it can be used with or without a panel insert.

The set is similar to one's that allow a integral tenon. They don't cut below the profile (typically the rabbited section) there needs to be some level of mating cut here or the parts will never go together

465429

[Carroll Courtney]

I have watch several Youtubes on this subject, not one did I see anyone use a router bits. All done with butt joints and pocket holes with trim. The rails were I would say 3/4 and the styles were 5/8 with or without a panel with trim around the perimeter of the styles and rails. I wish Youtube had been around when I done mine.

[George Bokros]

I think both bits need be raised in your router table. Neither one of your pieces look like the picture you copied from the website.

[Jared Sankovich]

I think both bits need be raised in your router table. Neither one of your pieces look like the picture you copied from the website.

The issue is it can't cut the profile shown. Look at the bits again. They are just the top section of a normal rail and stile bit set.

465453

[Richard Coers]

The issue is it can't cut the profile shown. Look at the bits again. They are just the top section of a normal rail and stile bit set.

465453
So maybe you use the female bit to cut a rabbet on the style.

[Malcolm McLeod]

As I understand your intent, the rail should have a continuous edge profile along its (entire) length. The stile presumably gets this same edge treatment and then is coped on the end(s) such that it mates to the rail.

Based on your bit identifications, I also assume you want a concave edge profile? Looking at the last photo, I'd suggest the pieces are (functionally) reversed - with the cuts as shown relative to the grain direction, the rail is on the left and the style on the right. The stile should have its end coped. Also, the depth of the edge cutter should be set to leave the expected edge profile. In the photo, this edge is totally buried on both parts.

I would mill the expected edge profile on all parts first - with the rail bit (leaving a concave edge), then cut the stiles to length and cope the ends with the stile bit.

Edit- Depending on material, you might get less blow-out if the cope is cut first, then the edges...??? And corrected my misread of bit purpose.

[Jim Dwight]

I agree with Jared, these bits will not cut the entire profile. You must cut a rabbet on the stile piece separately for this to work. You might be able to do it on the table saw with the piece on edge (to reduce setup time). Or a rabbeting bit in a router if you have a bearing set to get the right depth of cut.

[Malcolm McLeod]

... I'm not going to have an inserted panel. ...


I agree with Jared, these bits will not cut the entire profile. You must cut a rabbet on the stile piece separately for this to work. You might be able to do it on the table saw with the piece on edge (to reduce setup time). Or a rabbeting bit in a router if you have a bearing set to get the right depth of cut.

Maybe I'm missing something, but for the conditions given and qualified by my post #12, I see no problem using this bit pair. I'll only add that the depth control is key.

[George Bokros]

I think both bits need be raised in your router table. Neither one of your pieces look like the picture you copied from the website.

I take this back. His stock is to thick. If he was putting a panel in he would need a rabbet. Since he is not putting a panel in his stock is to thick.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Patrick I'm using 3/4" stock. There's your problem.
I'm pretty sure that set is made for 1/2" stock and not 3/4".
https://www.amanatool.com/49642-carbide-tipped-wainscot-wall-panel-bead-rail-cutter-1-1-4-dia-x-5-16-x-1-4-radius-x-1-4-inch-shank.html
That link lists the cutting height at 1/2" for the 49642 & 5/16" for the 49640

& looking at your picture - it sure looks like it's a 1/4" mismatch.

[Jared Sankovich]

Maybe I'm missing something, but for the conditions given and qualified by my post #12, I see no problem using this bit pair. I'll only add that the depth control is key.

It will only work with 3 options

1. 1/2" stock
2. A rabbit/rebate
3. A modified cope cut.

The catalog says panel groove/stub tenon must be cut separately
https://timberlinetools.com/PhotoDetails.asp?ShowDesc=N&PhotoURL=http%3A//images.timberlinetools.com/Amana-Catalog-page94.jpg

[Rick Sunchez]

A high-quality bit is very important for work, it seems to me that it is not worth saving on this, since a miser pays twice, when I was choosing a working bit for myself, I found a site https://www.woodroutersreviews.com/best-router-bits/ which helped me decide. I do not remember where I found it, but I think it will be useful for you to read it. So that in the future the bits won't break. Good luck with your new projects.

[Malcolm McLeod]

It will only work with 3 options

1. 1/2" stock
2. A rabbit/rebate
3. A modified cope cut.

The catalog says panel groove/stub tenon must be cut separately
https://timberlinetools.com/PhotoDetails.asp?ShowDesc=N&PhotoURL=http%3A//images.timberlinetools.com/Amana-Catalog-page94.jpg

So, I was bored - and curious.... I printed the related Amana webpage on cardstock, and cut quick/dirty 'pair' of profiles; results mate together nicely and are close to the dimensions listed on Amana site for the pictured part number(s). I can lay them out on pieces of 3/4" stock with no issues, no rabbits, no rebate - and so presumably these pieces should mate too. Depth is key to get co-planar top surfaces.

I have Amana cope & stick bit that does cut a panel groove, but is the reversible ogee profile (1 bit can be 'inverted' to cut both rail and cope). I just checked, and I am fairly certain that leaving the 'groove' cutter off, and configuring the profile cutter as required, will result in the equivalent cuts of the pictured bit pair. Depth is key.

Why does Mr. Krawford need a panel groove or stub tenon? He has no panel. Tenon for strength? It's screwed/nailed/glued flat to a wall. I'd think that sufficient? ...Clearly, I'm missing something.
:confused:

[George Bokros]

Truth be told I would make a molding profile I like and miter the corners.

[Jared Sankovich]

So, I was bored - and curious.... I printed the related Amana webpage on cardstock, and cut quick/dirty 'pair' of profiles; results mate together nicely and are close to the dimensions listed on Amana site for the pictured part number(s). I can lay them out on pieces of 3/4" stock with no issues, no rabbits, no rebate - and so presumably these pieces should mate too. Depth is key to get co-planar top surfaces.

I have Amana cope & stick bit that does cut a panel groove, but is the reversible ogee profile (1 bit can be 'inverted' to cut both rail and cope). I just checked, and I am fairly certain that leaving the 'groove' cutter off, and configuring the profile cutter as required, will result in the equivalent cuts of the pictured bit pair. Depth is key.

Why does Mr. Krawford need a panel groove or stub tenon? He has no panel. Tenon for strength? It's screwed/nailed/glued flat to a wall. I'd think that sufficient? ...Clearly, I'm missing something.
:confused:

If he used 1/2" stock he wouldn't need a panel groove or stub tenon. It's also just a odd half lap at that point.

That set will only cut this profile
465481

Anything taller needs a panel groove (and mating stub tenon on the cope) or modified cope

Either way on a board over 1/2" thick something needs done with the section I delineated with black dashed lines. It could be cut out as a panel groove, or cut from the cope

465483

[Rich Engelhardt]

Either way on a board over 1/2" thick something needs done with the section I delineated with black dashed lines. It could be cut out as a panel groove, or cut from the cope
Yep. These are wainscoting bits, not panel bits. They are made to ride on top of a sheet of 1/4" plywood or on a flat painted wall. (well they can hold a raised panel, but, the panel is flat against the wall, not contained like in a cabinet door)
Amana shows how it goes here:
https://www.amanatool.com/articles/post/constructing_wainscot

[Malcolm McLeod]

... or modified cope

Either way on a board over 1/2" thick something needs done with the section I delineated with black dashed lines. It could be cut out as a panel groove, or cut from the cope

465483

Perhaps what we have here is a failure to communicate... Tho' I can't see your attachments, I think I understand your point now.

I would cope this on a router table w/ fence or sled, so that colors my statements as well. I would make a pass to cope the end of the stile to match the rail (...depth IS key!;)), then if necessary, simply drop the bit down and make a clean-up pass - - only the vertical shoulder of the bit would be cutting. I suspect this is your 'modified cope'? (To me it's simply clean-up.)

I like building large case pieces, and have done a long ton of frame/panel :: cope/stick cutting - and if any part of it can be done wrong, I've done it. Sometimes even, uuhhmm .... twice. Yeah. Twice. But a few escape the burn pile, and along the way I've learned to deal with no budget, (my) lousy material selection, (my) poor tooling choices, and even minor 'clean-up' like this.

[Ken Krawford]

Based on the comments about these bits being designed for 1/2" stock, I ran some cuts on 1/2". Now the height mismatch between the two piece dropped to about 3/32". No amount of bit height adjustment would result in the 2 faces mating properly. I called Amana and they have never heard of a problem like this. The issue I couldn't overcome seems to revolve around the bit that cuts the rails. When the concave and convex parts of the 2 cuts mate up, the projection on the bottom of the bit that cuts a thin dado is the problem. I finally gave up and returned the bits. This project started out with cove moulding on the insides of the rectangles but I was trying to avoid the 4 miter cuts required for each box.
Thanks everyone for weighing in.