New Miter Saw

[Mike Burke]

i know some of you don't use a miter saws and some do...I have always had one and use it quite a bit. It probably isn't the most accurate way to cut but it has worked for me over the years.
Well I had some lumber fall off the rack today and landed on my miter saw and broke the adjusting handle off and it's not fixable. Its an older Delta cast alum saw that weights a lot ... 50 lbs or more. Anyway its done for.

I have some decision's to make now.

Look for another miter saw ? There are several choices to make about them. Size, slider, non slider, most importantly is Accuracy.

Start making cross cuts on my table saw with my sled ? I have never relied totally on my table saw for cross cutting , that would take a long time to get used to, and take time to set up different operations and work flow.

Get a shooting board and a Good shooting plane and start fine tuning my cross cutting with that technique ? I should be doing this anyway.

I still need to cross cut lumber if I'm building projects out of dimension lumber , but need accuracy for when I'm building my hard wood projects.

Here is what I have in mind
10' or 12" non slider miter saw
I figure they would be the most accurate.

What do you think I should do for cross cutting ?

Budget is around $600
so the $1500 kapex is not an option

Thanks

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I gave away my old Delta 10" because I had to realign it every time I used it.

To replace it, I bought a Dewalt 12" slider. It was aligned properly when I bought it and it remains so today about 2 1/2 years later.

[Bobby Robbinett]

Dewalt 12” non slider. Great saw if you can’t quite afford an OMGA or CTD. Ironically Harbor Freight just came out with a 12” Hercules non slider that appears to be a clone of the duel bevel 12” Dewalt non slider. Crazy to say this but it might actually be a bit superior to the Dewalt!

[Jim Becker]

If I had to replace my non-sliding Delta 12" miter saw tomorrow, I'd most likely opt for a good quality 10" sliding miter saw. My primary use for the machine over a decade and a half has been for breaking down lumber to lengths, but here in my temporary shop, I'm back to using it for crosscutting components for accuracy due to space constraints. (don't have my sliding table saw currently) I don't feel the need for the larger 12" on a slider as I don't generally work with materials that are really thick, and the 10" slider can provide good width capacity. I haven't done any research lately relative to what's on the market right now, so I'll have to leave specific recommendations up to others.

[Mike Burke]

Thanks for the suggestions so far.
I think I will be looking for a 10" slider as well Jim. I already have 10" blades and don't what to start buying 12"ers.
Accuracy is the main concern of course....I also use it to break down rough lumber but also for my main cross cutting. I have lived with a 10 non slider miter box for years and have gotten buy but the extra width capacity would be nice.

So guess I'm on the 10" slider side of the fence right now.

I have already started researching so I will continue doing that. If any one here has a 10" slider in their shop I would welcome any suggestions, input from your experiences.
Forgot to mention....this will be used " in shop" and will not be moved from site to site.

Thanks

[Jeff Roltgen]

If any one here has a 10" slider in their shop I would welcome any suggestions

10" Makita LS-1013. Oldest machine in the shop (16+years). It was manufactured shortly before the sudden demand for a wall-hugging DCS miter saw, so it runs on a single pair of slider rods. Every time I look at new ones on showroom floor, I extend blade as far from fence as it will go, and apply light pressure left to right. They all seem to easily deflect about a full kerf width, based on the multi-piece articulated arms invented for wall huggers, so I just keep repairing this original. It's a goody, but sadly, last time I shopped for a Makita, they've caved, gone to a quad- rod system to compact, and voila: excessive blade slop, like all the rest of the wall huggers. Only one I found a couple years ago was a Milwaukee that was constructed similar to the LS-1013 and sure enough, it runs that blade much tighter to kerf line. (sorry, don't recall model number, but it may also have been a 12" blade..)

So- only contribution I can make is to check for that play by physically inspecting any saw before you buy. I've had others rave about Bosch, claiming you get used to it, and others hate it for all the above reasons.

FWIW: Recently am back to using Makita 80 tooth Ultra fine crosscut blade # A-93681. Just under $40 each on the web, and blow every other blade out of the water for cleanliness of cut, despite spending double that amount on countless other varieties of Freud/CMT's over the years. Strongly recommend you try one, regardless of which saw you purchase.

[Alan Schwabacher]

Just as another option if you don't need all the angles provided by a miter saw: a track saw with a cutting table to provide precise angle and distance cuts may work well in some cases.

Your budget may not be enough for a full MFT or Kreg system, but should easily get saw and track and some kind of squaring jig.

[Bernie Kopfer]

I have a Kapex which could be called a 10in saw. And I do not consider it to be highly superior to other good saws out there, just very good and very overpriced. Like all sliders if pushed hard sideways at full extension something moves. I just make it a point to not push sideways when making a cut. Drop the saw straight down at Full speed and push straight in. There cannot be side movement unless it is pushed sideways. But on angled cuts I always try to use the hold down to minimize the wood moving due to the angled forces on wood and saw. Yes there are some saws better than others and finding a “consensus” among woodworkers is difficult but searching the wood forums and reviews will soon establish which ones you might consider.

[Andrew Hughes]

I have the Bosch Glide I like it a lot. 12 inch Forrest chop master is the blade I use.
Good Luck

[Bob Betker]

I've got the Bosch Glide as well and like it. Have you looked at an older DeWalt/AMF radial arm saw? They are excellent for cross cuts, you might find one on Craigslist in your price range.

[Rod Wolfy]

I had the Makita 10" mentioned. Loved it. Sold it & got the Bosch Glide 12". Very heavy. Can't move it. I'd buy it again, but I also bought a Milwaukee 7 1/4" dual bevel slide that weighs about 25#. I throw a battery on it and take it wherever I need to. Handles about 90% of the lumber, including 2x8s.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Another vote for the 10" slider. I like the Makita LS1013 best too, I wish they still made them. There are several good ones out there. You'll no doubt here the naysayers soon, but in my experience a good slider can be a repetably accurate saw. At least as good as the driver.

[Mike Burke]

Thanks for the suggestions...I have been researching them.

I have been looking at the Bosch 10" slider. Lots of good reviews.
Heavy but I won't be moving it once on my miter saw bench.

[Robert Engel]

Also consider Metabo. I bought a 10" chopper for a trim job b/c of the weight.

Very impressed with accuracy, but the dust collection is horrible.

Should have gotten a 12".

I bought a Bosch 12 Axial Glide to replace my 12"DW chopper and a radial arm saw.

I was not as impressed with the Bosch as I expected. The plastic indexer lever was loose. But the dust collection is decent, once I got the lever shimmed and tightened, it works "OK". But I'm constantly having to check the blade for square and plum.

Choppers are more accurate than sliders.

[Rick Potter]

Somebody's got to say it...........Radial arm saw.

[Jim Becker]

Somebody's got to say it...........Radial arm saw.

Someone did earlier in the thread. :)

[Ray Newman]

I have a BOSCH 12" Glide Saw. Very happy with it and so far no problems at all. Was accurate right out of the box.

If There was room in my shop, I would definitely have a 10" Radial Arms Saw or a Delta 12" turret Radial Arm.

[Doug Colombo]

I have a BOSCH 12" Glide Saw. Very happy with it and so far no problems at all. Was accurate right out of the box.

If There was room in my shop, I would definitely have a 10" Radial Arms Saw or a Delta 12" turret Radial Arm.

+1 on the Bosch - I have had one for a few years and LOVE IT !

[David Sochar]

CTD. A 12" blade, but an effective 10" saw. Solid cast iron, with no plastic on the entire machine. A 1/2HP Baldor motor sits on top, with a 1" axle in nice visible bearings for the pivot. The whole rotates in a well machined disc for up to 50 degrees left or right. Not really portable as they are about 80 lbs.

Use the CTD blades because they are superior to any other blade I have tried.

You will to find a good deal on a used one. Otherwise, you are over budget.

[Thomas Pender]

In the irony department I have been considering buying a sliding miter saw. Mostly I would use it to break heavy stuff down rather than attempt to use my table saw or even my old Festool which cannot cut through thick stock for legs, etc. I also would like to cut 45 degree angles for frames and for some finish carpentry. (Cross cut sled on my SS PCS works, but it requires some fussing.). It came down to the Dewalt 779, 780, the expensive Makita LS1219L, the slightly less expensive Bosch GCM12SD, etc. I carefully read the reviews and then I found this thread, which I think nails it for saws that do not use the the traditional glide system - they do not seem to be as accurate. (Read some nasty ratings on accuracy about one of the expensive saws as well.). Bottom line, I am going to buy the 779 or the 780. Will be good for breaking stuff down, fixing our decks, etc. (Will also buy the stand.). I thank all of you for useful comments which made it easy for me to figure out what to do and to answer the question asked, but I do believe the option of a 12” blade is critical for cutting bigger stuff.

[Ronald Blue]

Since it was mentioned....

cedarrapids.craigslist.org/tls/d/newhall-radial-arm-saw/7375031652.html
milwaukee.craigslist.org/tls/d/brookfield-de-walt-radial-arm-saw-with/7372532244.html

[Steve Rozmiarek]

In the irony department I have been considering buying a sliding miter saw. Mostly I would use it to break heavy stuff down rather than attempt to use my table saw or even my old Festool which cannot cut through thick stock for legs, etc. I also would like to cut 45 degree angles for frames and for some finish carpentry. (Cross cut sled on my SS PCS works, but it requires some fussing.). It came down to the Dewalt 779, 780, the expensive Makita LS1219L, the slightly less expensive Bosch GCM12SD, etc. I carefully read the reviews and then I found this thread, which I think nails it for saws that do not use the the traditional glide system - they do not seem to be as accurate. (Read some nasty ratings on accuracy about one of the expensive saws as well.). Bottom line, I am going to buy the 779 or the 780. Will be good for breaking stuff down, fixing our decks, etc. (Will also buy the stand.). I thank all of you for useful comments which made it easy for me to figure out what to do and to answer the question asked, but I do believe the option of a 12” blade is critical for cutting bigger stuff.

Quality built traditional linear bearing are SCMS have far more bearing surface than a glide system. In my experience most saw issues come from moving them, not from actual use, and a good linear bearing saw resists that damage better. We use these saws every day, heavily. I have tried three different Makita series, three dewalts, a milwaukee, and a couple hitachi and metabos. Our crews are good at breaking things, and the most common breakdown we see is transport damage. Second is stuff falling off the saws, like extra clamps, sliding fence sections, dust chutes, fasteners for detent systems, etc. A bunch of this is transport related. I have replaced brushes, switches, cords and misc screw in saws that were worth repairing. In my experience, I have never seen a damaged or misaligned linear bearing or rod in any of our saws of any brand. I have however seen another local contractor destroy a glide they were using for trim carpentry while moving it after only a week or two of having it.

We're talking torture test stuff here compared to how these saws will be used in most woodshops, so honestly pretty much any decent saw will be fine in that environment. For us though, the Makitas and the Dewalts are what I keep buying because they hold up the best and cause the least drama. I personally prefer Makita for my personal saw as they are a little more refined, and I prefer to send a Dewalt on the rough jobs because it's built a little tougher.

[Jim Becker]

Steve makes a really good point relative to maintaining accuracy...while I'm sure there are exceptions, a big challenge with keeping things dialed in comes from moving them around. If the tool is stationary and one is not beating on it with material and via transportation, there is less risk of it going out on you. But there is still risk... ;) The greater your need for precision with this particular tool, the more care you need to put into selecting it. For general utility including cutting down lumber, you'll almost ever notice any minor anomalies. But if you're doing work like exact miters and crosscuts for final fitting, crown and other complicated angles, etc...you need a tool that gets accurate and stays accurate no matter what. I'd be on the fence with this if I were buying today. "Normally" I don't depend upon the miter saw for precise work. In my temporary shop, I must for functional reasons and the tool is on a mobile stand that I must move just outside the door to use for some cuts due to space. So there's the "bumpy bump" from moving the stand over the threshold (in both directions) every time I need to use the machine. Fun.

[Mike Stelts]

I'm also happy with the Bosch 12". Forgot how long I've had it, but since shortly after it was introduced..

[Alan Lightstone]

I've had several instances, of late, that my Kapex moved out of square. The saw never gets moved, it is fixed to a cabinet with nice permanent wings on it (Fastcap Best Fence). Not checking it for square each time before cutting is my fault.

That being said, I'm thinking of upgrading, though I would hate to not be able to use those wings.

So I'm pretty +/- about the Kapex lately. Looking for an upgrade, and I figure I could get a good price selling the Kapex.

[John TenEyck]

Somebody's got to say it...........Radial arm saw.

You weren't the first, Rich, and you won't be the last. A RAS does more, better, than any miter saw ever will. If you don't need portability, and have the space, a Dewalt GWI or larger might be your ideal machine.

FWIW, I have a Bosch 12" DCMS. It's been a good saw after I tuned it. Out of the box it was awful despite the rave reviews. And it weighs 64 lbs, so portability is only for the young, of which I no longer am a member.

And whoever said the Makita blade is great is spot on.

John

[John TenEyck]

IMO it is a huge mistake to use a miter saw, RAS, whatever saw to break down rough stock if you also plan to use it for precision work. The odds are high that a piece of wood that has some warp will jamb as you cut it and that pretty much guarantees the alignment goes off. The best machine I've found for breaking down rough stock is my jigsaw. No worry of kickback, alignment is a non-issue, and it's no big deal if I ruin a blade. With a coarse cutting blade it goes through anything without complaint.

John

[Mike Burke]

Some Great insights, information and suggestions. It's good to hear some real world experience with some of these miter saws. Steve makes some really good points , thanks for sharing your experience with the most popular miter saws. John you make a great suggestion about breaking down rough lumber...I have been using my Jig saw lately to cut rough stuff to length also. Makes sense to keep the miter saw for the precision cuts. After all that's the main reason for having one and keeping it accurate.

I did find a replacement part for my Delta old 34-080 so I am going to attempt to fix it up for now and really consider what I am going to spend my $$ on.

I have been looking at the Makita 10" slider the last couple days...Looks like a good saw for my use.

Thanks everyone for all the reply's. Good information !

[Brian Holcombe]

IMO it is a huge mistake to use a miter saw, RAS, whatever saw to break down rough stock if you also plan to use it for precision work. The odds are high that a piece of wood that has some warp will jamb as you cut it and that pretty much guarantees the alignment goes off. The best machine I've found for breaking down rough stock is my jigsaw. No worry of kickback, alignment is a non-issue, and it's no big deal if I ruin a blade. With a coarse cutting blade it goes through anything without complaint.

John

I put air clamps on mine, never moves when cutting heavy rough stock.

[Adam Herman]

Somebody's got to say it...........Radial arm saw.

haha. i plan on this in the new building when ever that gets done. something nice with a 12in + blade.

just need the space for it.

[Tom M King]

I agree about the linear bearings. My Dewalt 708, that I bought in 2006, if I'm remembering correctly, still cuts dead true. It's never been locked up though, except one time when someone else was using it. Other than that one time, I'm the only person that has/will use it. He was push cutting. I never do.

Also, I keep two Radial Arm saws. One only for precise 90 degree crosscuts, and one for rough work, and cutting dadoes. The one for precise cuts has never been locked up in wood, because I'm the only one using it.

I would guess that locking one up would be as harmful to one as rough moving.

[Dan Gaylin]

I was not happy with my Dewalt 12” slider. It was big and heavy, took up a ton of space, had terrible dust collection, was super noisy, had a tendency to jump when you started it (no soft start) and had fence alignment problems from the get go that could not be fully corrected.

I sold it and bought one of the new 10” Delta Cruzers. It is better in everything I talk about in the previous paragraph. In particular it was square out of the box and is easy to adjust. Its “robot arms” glide much more smoothly than any slider I have used. It also has the cut capacity of the 12” Dewalt and because of the way it is designed takes up much less space. There is a 12” Delta Cruzer that also takes up less space than a typical 12” sliding miter saw. I’m very happy with it. First sliding miter saw I have had (I’ve had several before this) that I really like.

[Steven Woodward]

I do not own this saw, but the construction looks very solid: cast iron base, miter but no bevel, and no slider.
Provision for vertical and horizontal clamping.
Any vertical misalignment of blade can be corrected with shim under bolts at the back.

I too am looking for an accurate stable miter saw. My short list is Makita LS1440 and Omga 1P300.

Link is to Home Depot in Canada. Price in USA should be lower, perhaps close to your $600 target

https://www.homedepot.ca/product/makita-14-inch-miter-saw-with-quick-release/1000718175


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[Jeff Roltgen]

Steven - you had me stoked for a moment there, but looks like according to Amazon (US) the Makita LS1440 is listed as "discontinued by manufacturer". Dang.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Steven - you had me stoked for a moment there, but looks like according to Amazon (US) the Makita LS1440 is listed as "discontinued by manufacturer". Dang.

I think they are still available, lots of interweb places say they are. Saw one sell on auction a couple weeks ago too. Prices seem to be all over the place though.

[Ron Citerone]

I am very happy with my Dewalt 12” non sliding miter saw. My old Makita 10” has seen better days, but still works and I use it to cut stuff to length now to save my Dewalt for trim. Happy with both.

[Darrell Bade]

I use a 10" Bosch Glide for all my rough and final cutting including angles. Happy with the results but then again I'm not the guy that is running dial indicators over everything checking stuff, I just build furniture and other items that I think look good but I guess I might be a thousandth or two off here and there.