Sideboard / sofa table - First table project, looking for feedback

[Eric Schubert]

Hello, fellow woodworkers! I hope you're all having an excellent week, so far. First, let me make a note: the image I attached is just a render, not a physical object, yet.

In talking with my wife, I've decided to take on my first table project. (This is also my largest project, by far.) I'm hoping for some feedback on design, as well as any tips on construction.

To start, I have some 4/4 black walnut planks in the garage that I plan to use for this project. All exterior-facing wood will be walnut. Underneath the top, hidden rails for the drawer slides to attach, as well as drawer boxes, will be something else. I have a mix of ash, alder, and possibly maple cutoffs from a friend I may use for those. I'm undecided on the drawer pull style, but thought some simple satin/brushed stainless knobs may complement the simplicity of the design.

I plan to utilize mortise-and-tenon joinery for the legs and exterior rails. The hidden rails for the drawer slides will likely use pocket screws to keep things easier. The top will be secured to allow some wood movement, though I'll need to look into options there. Any suggestions on the best way to accomplish this? I've seen figure-eights that can swivel a bit as the wood moves. Are there other, better options out there? And should I use breadboard ends?

The design is my own, but is inspired by simple, traditional furniture such as the mission or shaker styles.

Any feedback? Too simple? Any issues?

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51478099394_9b8b052b06_b.jpg

[Brian Tymchak]

Hi Eric, first, for a rendering that table sure looks real!

I have a concern with the lack of a full apron in the front. It seems to me that the top would sag over time with any weight on the top, unless you are constructing each drawer in a full box which are attached to one one another which in effect creates a bit of a torsion box construction, which is likely fine to support the top.

Can you provide an image of the internal construction?

[Jamie Buxton]

Re the knobs.... You could consider shop-made wood knobs/pulls. They look more handmade than metal. Another possibility to have no knobs at all. You can open these drawers by pulling on the bottom edge.

Separate question...How did you make that remarkable render?

[Patrick McCarthy]

Agree that the render is surprisingly real. I too thought it was a finished project. CAVEAT: my taste is in my mouth, so take with grain of salt. The bottom shelf strikes me as disproportionately low. I would be curious to see a rendering with it elevated a few inches. I am sure others with actual taste, ie a design aesthetic, will chime in. Good luck, sir.
Best, Patrick

[Gary Ragatz]

I like the design - very pleasing, overall.

From a structural perspective, I share @Brian Tymchak's concern about the lack of a front apron. I would want solid stock running the width of the table, both above and below the drawers, to provide more racking resistance and better support for the drawers. Might cost you a little in the depth of the drawers, but I think it would be more solid. If you have access to Fine Woodworking magazine, they had plans for a somewhat similar table in their March/April 2003 issue - would give you some ideas about how to design/build that part of the table.

From an aesthetic perspective, I might put a little longer overhang on the top, and under-bevel it to make the edge a little thinner (especially if you're going to use stock that's close to the full 4/4 thickness.

[Bill Carey]

ditto on the comments about the front apron, the rendering looking very real (how did you do that?), and a bit more overhang on the top. Also, the bottom shelf might look better if it were only the width of the inside dimension of the legs, butting into a low rail (M&T) rather than sitting on top of it. Just my 2 cents, and worth every penny.

[Eric Schubert]

Thanks, everyone, for the feedback! I'll try to answer all of the questions here, and I'm whipping up a couple more renderings to show the internal assembly and with the lower shelf up a little higher.


Hi Eric, first, for a rendering that table sure looks real!

I have a concern with the lack of a full apron in the front. It seems to me that the top would sag over time with any weight on the top, unless you are constructing each drawer in a full box which are attached to one one another which in effect creates a bit of a torsion box construction, which is likely fine to support the top.

Can you provide an image of the internal construction?

This makes sense, and is exactly why I wanted some feedback on my design. I came up with my current idea using some photos taken from "The Complete Book of Woodworking" for a writing desk with a similarly-styled (but singular) drawer. The rear of the table does have a rail that runs the full length underneath the top to give it some support, but it isn't a short table, either. It's approximately 66"L x 16"W x 35"H.


Re the knobs.... You could consider shop-made wood knobs/pulls. They look more handmade than metal. Another possibility to have no knobs at all. You can open these drawers by pulling on the bottom edge.

Separate question...How did you make that remarkable render?

I probably don't have the skills or tools to make my own knobs. Certainly no lathe. Otherwise I would definitely consider making my own. I haven't done a ton of projects, and my most-intricate was a jewelry box for my wife. This is my first larger piece.

As for the render, I whipped it up in Fusion 360, along with the complete design. It's pretty easy to create these shots in their Rendering workspace. One of the things that seems to help is using the 3D wood textures (called "appearances"), which seem to have more figure and depth to them. They also have texture through the model, if you cut parts or make section views.

I use and teach classes on Fusion 360 frequently for work, so it was a no-brainer to use it for this project. In fact, if anyone is wanting a CAD tool to create designs, Fusion 360 has free personal licenses. There are some limitations over the commercial version, but I can do everything I want to do in there with the free version, and I've found it significantly more-intuitive to learn and use than something like SketchUp or OnShape or Blender or other free tools.


Agree that the render is surprisingly real. I too thought it was a finished project. CAVEAT: my taste is in my mouth, so take with grain of salt. The bottom shelf strikes me as disproportionately low. I would be curious to see a rendering with it elevated a few inches. I am sure others with actual taste, ie a design aesthetic, will chime in. Good luck, sir.
Best, Patrick

See below for an updated rendering with the shelf up a few inches. I wasn't sure how that would look, or if I'd need to adjust the taper at the bottom of the legs if I raised the shelf up. I could also raise the shelf, but also increase the size of the rails underneath it a little bit to keep the bottom near the top of the taper on the legs.


I like the design - very pleasing, overall.

From a structural perspective, I share @Brian Tymchak's concern about the lack of a front apron. I would want solid stock running the width of the table, both above and below the drawers, to provide more racking resistance and better support for the drawers. Might cost you a little in the depth of the drawers, but I think it would be more solid. If you have access to Fine Woodworking magazine, they had plans for a somewhat similar table in their March/April 2003 issue - would give you some ideas about how to design/build that part of the table.

From an aesthetic perspective, I might put a little longer overhang on the top, and under-bevel it to make the edge a little thinner (especially if you're going to use stock that's close to the full 4/4 thickness.

Thanks for the suggestions! I've shared a shot underneath the table to view the construction. That may affect ideas on how rigid the table top will be (or maybe not!). I did add a small bevel along the edges of the table already, but I can try making it a little more aggressive and extend the overhang a bit. I also don't want the table to be too deep front-to-back. It's going behind our couch, and I don't want anyone to kick it if it sticks out too far. I also don't want it to tip over, so I'm trying to balance stability with how much space it takes up.


ditto on the comments about the front apron, the rendering looking very real (how did you do that?), and a bit more overhang on the top. Also, the bottom shelf might look better if it were only the width of the inside dimension of the legs, butting into a low rail (M&T) rather than sitting on top of it. Just my 2 cents, and worth every penny.

Interesting idea on changing up the construction of the shelf. It might add a neat detail with a border around the shelf being exposed, and glued to the rails. Rails would then be M&T into the legs and glued. That would certainly still be pretty strong. I may also add another support under the middle of the bottom shelf, just in case something heavy is placed on it.

Here's the shot of the internal construction:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51479300696_d2bf72a1fc_b.jpg

You can see I added hidden rails to attach the drawer slides. I would attach these rails to the rear rail and front spacer pieces with pocket screws, and possibly attach to the top using figure eight fasteners. My main concern would be wood movement, so I'm still sorting out the best option to connect these rails, if I do so at all. I'm also curious if breadboard ends on the top would be desirable. They might add an interesting detail to the design.

Here's a render with the shelf raised 2.5 inches, which felt about right:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51478516387_08ba78e0d2_b.jpg

And finally, here's a render with the shelf raised and an additional 1" of overhang on each end of the top. Not sure if that was as much as suggested or not.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51480331750_39b7ddbcdf_b.jpg

[Lee Schierer]

You don't indicate how long the table is going to be. By making the drawers a bit shallower, you can run a rail all the way across, attached to the back of the spacers between the drawers, which will give a bit more support to the top.

[Jamie Buxton]

I probably don't have the skills or tools to make my own knobs. Certainly no lathe. Otherwise I would definitely consider making my own.





You don't need a lathe. Knobs don't have to be round. They can be rectangular, or square, or oval, irregular, or squiggly, etc. The only functional requirement is that they be somewhat easy to grasp. They can be undercut, or undercut only in places, or have ridges, or be roughened, etc. There's zillions of design possibilities when you make your own.

[Eric Schubert]

You don't need a lathe. Knobs don't have to be round. They can be rectangular, or square, or oval, irregular, or squiggly, etc. The only functional requirement is that they be somewhat easy to grasp. They can be undercut, or undercut only in places, or have ridges, or be roughened, etc. There's zillions of design possibilities when you make your own.

Very true! I'll have to think about this a bit... it would be neat to make my own knobs.

[Eric Schubert]

You don't indicate how long the table is going to be. By making the drawers a bit shallower, you can run a rail all the way across, attached to the back of the spacers between the drawers, which will give a bit more support to the top.


I did actually mention size in my previous "wall-o-text" reply, but it's easy to miss. Overall size: 66"L x 16"W x 35"H

There is a rear rail under the top that runs the full length from leg to leg, joined with M&T to the legs. The piece would be 5" tall, same height as the drawers. You can see it in the underside screenshot in my previous reply. Would that be sufficient to support the top? Or are you suggesting adding another rail?

[Bill Carey]

I probably don't have the skills or tools to make my own knobs. Certainly no lathe. Otherwise I would definitely consider making my own. I haven't done a ton of projects, and my most-intricate was a jewelry box for my wife. This is my first larger piece.

Here's an idea I did for a dresser I made. Cut a blank of walnut, routed the finger groves, glued a thin piece of cherry onto the walnut, and sanded the cherry away. No router table, just angle the bottom of the pull so there is something for your finger to grip on. Lotsa ways to make pulls.

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[Lee Schierer]

Or are you suggesting adding another rail?

Aad a piece of 3/4 x 3/4 stock across the front under the drawers so that it runs from the leg on the left to the leg on the right and attach it to the blocks in between the drawers. It will act like a truss bridge to support the front of the top to resist sagging.

[Eric Schubert]

Here's an idea I did for a dresser I made. Cut a blank of walnut, routed the finger groves, glued a thin piece of cherry onto the walnut, and sanded the cherry away. No router table, just angle the bottom of the pull so there is something for your finger to grip on. Lotsa ways to make pulls.

Interesting. Is the cherry meant to add a thin decorative layer to the walnut? If so, looks nice!

[Bill Carey]

Interesting. Is the cherry meant to add a thin decorative layer to the walnut? If so, looks nice!

That's the idea. Worked out pretty well

[William Fretwell]

Some observations; feelings….. If the top is made a little larger the edge can stay vertical but a true taper under the top will give the top a light look but keep it strong to resist sagging.

The bottom shelf raised up does look better. The leg taper should go from the bottom of the shelf to the floor, far more elegant to the eye.

Extravagant perhaps but if the bottom shelf is one piece of wood the consistent grain looks far better at the front. The added weight adds stability.

As for the drawers: the lack of bottom frame gives it a modern look but means the piece looses the classic shaker appeal. I’ve seen both and prefer the simpler drawer slider construction of the more traditional drawers.

Either way such a piece of furniture is excellent value in useful furniture for minimal wood.

[Eric Schubert]

Some observations; feelings….. If the top is made a little larger the edge can stay vertical but a true taper under the top will give the top a light look but keep it strong to resist sagging.

The bottom shelf raised up does look better. The leg taper should go from the bottom of the shelf to the floor, far more elegant to the eye.

Extravagant perhaps but if the bottom shelf is one piece of wood the consistent grain looks far better at the front. The added weight adds stability.

As for the drawers: the lack of bottom frame gives it a modern look but means the piece looses the classic shaker appeal. I’ve seen both and prefer the simpler drawer slider construction of the more traditional drawers.

Either way such a piece of furniture is excellent value in useful furniture for minimal wood.

Thank you for the feedback! It's a little tough to see, but the top does have a slight undercutting taper to it around the perimeter. I believe it's approximately 25° or so, with the bevel starting about 1/4" below the top surface.

I still need to check, but I'm hoping I can build this table without buying more material beyond a few fasteners. I have a bunch of cutoffs from a friend that does carpentry and trim that I plan to use for the drawer box, so that will help reduce the need for walnut in the design.

[William Fretwell]

Yes the edge taper is visible. A larger top gives a more gradual taper that can not be seen. The vertical edge adds to the effect of lightening the top so it looks elegant. This enables the top to be thicker and stronger without looking ‘clumpy’.

[Eric Schubert]

Yes the edge taper is visible. A larger top gives a more gradual taper that can not be seen. The vertical edge adds to the effect of lightening the top so it looks elegant. This enables the top to be thicker and stronger without looking ‘clumpy’.

I'm not sure I'm visualizing what you're recommending. Any chance you have a link or photo of an example? I'd love to see it.

[Gary Ragatz]

Not sure if this is what William had in mind, but when I suggested an under-bevel, I was thinking of something like this. When you're standing up, looking at the table top, it looks like it's light - maybe 1/2" or 5/8" or whatever, while it's actually thicker/heavier. The shallow under-bevel hides the actual thickness of the top.

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[William Fretwell]

Here are two examples, you can’t really see the taper under the edge but it’s there. The edge is about 2/3 of the full depth. The overhang is 2.5” on the small table and 3” on the large table.

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[William Fretwell]

Correct Gary, with the bevel shallow.

[Phil Mueller]

Not sure if it’s been mentioned yet, but for connecting the top, figure 8s, Z clips, and traditional wooden buttons all work. I’ve used the latter two most.

There’s plenty of info out there on how to install (or make, if using wooden buttons). Just need to pay some attention to the humidity conditions when the top is attached. In the winter, I allow a little more space between the end of the connector and the bottom of the mortise/slot (assuming the table will be at it’s smallest in the winter) and will expand some. Opposite is true when installing the top in the summer humidity…I install the connectors a little tighter to the bottom of the mortise/slot assuming the table will shrink some. This applies to the long grain connection.

For the side grain, make the connector slot wider than the connector itself, so it has some room to move side to side.

It’s a bit different for figure 8s, on the long grain, you want to install them just a tad offset, so they can move in and out. Side grain, I just install them straight out to allow movement side to side.

Hope this helps.

[Stan Calow]

I like the idea of making your own pulls. But if not, brass looks better with walnut than polished nickel, IMO. The first sofa table I made, I tinkered with the dimensions (from the plan I was working with) and that messed up the proportions so that it looked a bit off to me. I also found the hardest part was getting those flush drawers to fit with minimal (almost invisible) gaps. It took a lot of measuring and tinkering to get it to (almost) work. That meant being very careful at setting up those cross pieces.

[Eric Schubert]

Not sure if this is what William had in mind, but when I suggested an under-bevel, I was thinking of something like this. When you're standing up, looking at the table top, it looks like it's light - maybe 1/2" or 5/8" or whatever, while it's actually thicker/heavier. The shallow under-bevel hides the actual thickness of the top.

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Correct Gary, with the bevel shallow.

Those examples definitely help! Thanks! My bevel was angled more-steeply. Rather than the majority of the bevel being underneath the top, mine has the majority of the bevel on the outer visible edge face of the board. Maybe I'll model up both and see which I prefer... I like the look it has now, but it's probably not very common to do it the way I've designed it.

[Eric Schubert]

Not sure if it’s been mentioned yet, but for connecting the top, figure 8s, Z clips, and traditional wooden buttons all work. I’ve used the latter two most.

There’s plenty of info out there on how to install (or make, if using wooden buttons). Just need to pay some attention to the humidity conditions when the top is attached. In the winter, I allow a little more space between the end of the connector and the bottom of the mortise/slot (assuming the table will be at it’s smallest in the winter) and will expand some. Opposite is true when installing the top in the summer humidity…I install the connectors a little tighter to the bottom of the mortise/slot assuming the table will shrink some. This applies to the long grain connection.

For the side grain, make the connector slot wider than the connector itself, so it has some room to move side to side.

It’s a bit different for figure 8s, on the long grain, you want to install them just a tad offset, so they can move in and out. Side grain, I just install them straight out to allow movement side to side.

Hope this helps.

Thanks, Phil! I'll search out some examples on installing each type. Being my first table, I'm learning a lot about how they're constructed and how tops get attached to allow for movement. Thanks for providing some suggestions on how I can accomplish this. I had assumed figure 8's were the default, go-to solution. It's nice to know there are different options.


I like the idea of making your own pulls. But if not, brass looks better with walnut than polished nickel, IMO. The first sofa table I made, I tinkered with the dimensions (from the plan I was working with) and that messed up the proportions so that it looked a bit off to me. I also found the hardest part was getting those flush drawers to fit with minimal (almost invisible) gaps. It took a lot of measuring and tinkering to get it to (almost) work. That meant being very careful at setting up those cross pieces.

Thanks, Stan! I tend to like silver over gold. For wedding bands, we went white gold over traditional yellow gold. I figured we'd stick with nickel or brushed stainless for the pulls. But I can take a clear-coated scrap to the store and compare brass vs nickel and see which one I like better. I do like that metal pulls provide a little pop of contrast and color over just more walnut that might blend in. I could also consider making pulls out of a contrasting wood, if the Mrs. wants to try that route.

The drawer gaps are the thing that feels most-intimidating to me. I've made some drawers, but they were just for the shop and gaps weren't really critical. So, I'm a little nervous that the gaps will be uneven. But, we'll see how it goes. You can't learn if you don't give it a try, right? :)