The Oil on Your Stone

[Jim Koepke]

In a discussion a while ago the subject of different viscosities of mineral oil came up.

In searching on this it seemed acquiring lighter oils was expensive partially due to many vendors requiring a purchases in bulk amounts.

Then someone mentioned baby oil. Interesting enough, while grocery shopping today the aisle with baby oil was visited. All of the different brands were in clear bottles. This made judging viscosity an easy task of just wiggling the bottles.

The store brand appeared to have the lightest viscosity. It does have trace amounts of a few other items; fragrance, vitamin E and aloe. Not sure that is the right order.

The Johnson's baby oil, if my memory is working, is only mineral oil and fragrance. It cost twice as much and looked to be a bit thicker.

My current oil is store brand mineral oil from the same store. Norton honing oil is a little thinner. Those have been mixed 50/50 and works fine.

The regular mineral oil works well, but its high viscosity seems to lubricate better and slows the cutting action.

The baby oil seemed much thinner on the stones. It came out of the bottle much quicker and spread out on the stone faster by gravity.

So at less than $3 for a 20oz bottle it may be worth a try.

My plan is to mix baby oil with regular mineral oil to create a viscosity between the two.

Of course…

464781 :D

jtk

[Mel Fulks]

I like WD-40 for tool honing , anything thicker seems to just slow the process. But I don’t like the WD for maintenance of seldom used
things like pad locks, as they can get glued together, and that’s too much “security” .

[steven c newman]

I think I'll just stick to plain old 3in1 oil....and save the mineral oil for finishing cutting boards...

[Rob Young]

In a discussion a while ago the subject of different viscosities of mineral oil came up.

In searching on this it seemed acquiring lighter oils was expensive partially due to many vendors requiring a purchases in bulk amounts.

Then someone mentioned baby oil. Interesting enough, while grocery shopping today the aisle with baby oil was visited. All of the different brands were in clear bottles. This made judging viscosity an easy task of just wiggling the bottles.

The store brand appeared to have the lightest viscosity. It does have trace amounts of a few other items; fragrance, vitamin E and aloe. Not sure that is the right order.

The Johnson's baby oil, if my memory is working, is only mineral oil and fragrance. It cost twice as much and looked to be a bit thicker.

My current oil is store brand mineral oil from the same store. Norton honing oil is a little thinner. Those have been mixed 50/50 and works fine.

The regular mineral oil works well, but its high viscosity seems to lubricate better and slows the cutting action.

The baby oil seemed much thinner on the stones. It came out of the bottle much quicker and spread out on the stone faster by gravity.

So at less than $3 for a 20oz bottle it may be worth a try.

My plan is to mix baby oil with regular mineral oil to create a viscosity between the two.

Of course…

464781 :D

jtk


Cheapest baby oil from the Dollar Store mixed 50:50 with kerosene. Nice and thin and seems to work just fine for me on natural and man-made stones.

[Mike Manning]

Jim,
Interesting that you comment on the use mineral oil. The last few days, I have been practicing my sharpening skills using some Spyderco ceramic stones. I have a few oilstones which I have never used. I want to give them a try but wasn't sure what type of oil to use and am too cheap to pay for a bottle of Norton's sharpening oil. I will try the baby oil. How do you deal with the mess during and after using the stones?

Thanks!
Mike

[Jim Koepke]

I will try the baby oil. How do you deal with the mess during and after using the stones?

My larger oilstones are in their own boxes that absorb any stray oil. The oilstone sharpening area is on a piece of scrap 1/2" plywood that also absorbs any stray oil. Then there are shop rags purchased at various sources. The rags appear to be white tee-shirt material cut up into rags.

jtk

[al heitz]

ASIDE: I live in t-shirts, so there are all kinds of them for shop rags - oil rags, wipe-on finishing rags, cleaning rags. A never ending free supply of absorbent, lint free rags in all your favorite designer colors. :)

[Rafael Herrera]

If you're in the US, a gallon of food grade mineral oil (very refined, odorles, thin) is around $20 on Amazon.com. Mixing it with kerosene just makes it stinky, up to your sensitivities. Baby oil is also probably mainly mineral oil and some perfumes, if it's cheap, go for it.

The branded honing oils, when you do the math, come down to a product that is several hundred dollars per gallon. I was yelled at in this forum because I objected to paying that much for what it's basically mineral oil. The yeller told me that the honing oil was a super special kind of mineral oil that justified the difference in price. I still use food grade mineral oil.

[Tom M King]

I used bacon grease once, in a pinch, and it worked.

[Eric Rathhaus]

I've tried various oils and oil/kerosene mixtures. I find 3:1 oil cheap, easy to use, and the right viscosity.

[Jim Koepke]

If you're in the US, a gallon of food grade mineral oil (very refined, odorles, thin) is around $20 on Amazon.com. Mixing it with kerosene just makes it stinky, up to your sensitivities. Baby oil is also probably mainly mineral oil and some perfumes, if it's cheap, go for it.

The branded honing oils, when you do the math, come down to a product that is several hundred dollars per gallon. I was yelled at in this forum because I objected to paying that much for what it's basically mineral oil. The yeller told me that the honing oil was a super special kind of mineral oil that justified the difference in price. I still use food grade mineral oil.

At $2.79 for a 20oz bottle the baby oil costs $17.86 per gallon. Keeping babies from squeaking is a bit cheaper. Food grade mineral oil at $2.49 a pint would cost $19.92 a gallon at my local grocer. Turns out there is also a mineral oil sold in some cosmetics departments for make up removal. No info on pricing at this time.


I've tried various oils and oil/kerosene mixtures. I find 3:1 oil cheap, easy to use, and the right viscosity.

Harbor Freight lists 3 in 1 oil at $3.99 for a 4oz bottle. That comes to 127.68 per gallon. One question about 3 in 1 oil is if it is considered food grade. For the small amounts that would be on my kitchen knives or on carved spoons it might not be a concern.

The mineral oil purchased on the pharmacy department is food grade and is nice to use on cutting boards and other wooden kitchen utensils. It is also a good non-drying oil for use on tool handles.

The cost of the various oils isn't as important to many of us as is the result and our comfort with what we achieve.

jtk

[Zach Dillinger]

I use Marvel Mystery Oil for honing. It smells great, is inexpensive, and I always have it on hand anyway for my old cars.

[Jim Koepke]

I use Marvel Mystery Oil for honing. It smells great, is inexpensive, and I always have it on hand anyway for my old cars.

The cost seems to depend on where one purchases Marvel Mystery Oil:

464818

According to Wikipedia it is mostly mineral oil:

It is composed primarily of petroleum distillates, including mineral oil (60–100%), mineral spirits (10–30%), tricresyl phosphate (an antiwear and extreme pressure additive in lubricants, 0.1–1.0%), ortho-dichlorobenzene (a softening and removing agent for carbon-based contamination on metal surfaces, 0.1–1.0%), and para-dichlorobenzene (a precursor used in the production of chemically and thermally resistant polymers, <0.1%).

Whatever works…

jtk

[Eric Rathhaus]

Hi Jim - That's an enlightening comparison. My calculus is a bit cruder. Since I don't go thru the whetstone oil very quickly, I didn't compare by price per gallon. I never tried baby oil but I tried various oils and ended up using food-grade mineral oil for quite awhile. It's just too thick and you have the hassle of needing and refilling a dispenser. I do like the fact that I don't worry about getting it on my skin. When I saw Will Meyers and Roy Underhill using 3:1 oil for sharpening, I decided to give it a try. I found it has the right viscosity, smells fine, and comes packaged in a dispenser. You can buy a 12 pack of 8 oz bottles for $48 from Amazon, which is still much more per ounce than baby oil or food-grade mineral oil. At the same time, I figure this box should last me several years so that so that the time saved in calculating cheaper alternatives, dealing with the additional time spent on adulterating, bottling, etc. makes it cheap to me.

[Brian Deakin]

I have found 2 references to Norton products with different cas numbers

https://msdsdigital.com/norton-sharpening-stone-oil-msds

Norton sharpening stone oil has the cas number 8042-47-5

and there is another link

https://www.forestry-suppliers.com/Documents/2938_msds.pdf

SHARPENING STONE OIL

CAS: 64742-18-3

[Andrew Pitonyak]

The claims I have heard about different mineral oils is that the difference is often in how consistent the particle sizes are. I have seen it claimed (probably by Norton and I am too lazy to look it up, which makes me think it might have been something from like $75 years ago) that mineral oils will have different size particles and that Norton's has very uniform sizes and, unlike some, will NOT dry out in the stone.

I have seen the claim that the oil can dry in the stone and gum it up, but I have never met anyone who has claimed that it has happened to them. One advantage to Norton is that it is food safe, but I would think that you could easily clean a knife that had something like Kerosene on it. It was mentioned that you can get food grade mineral oil by the gallon very cheap on amazon. I have a gallon of that that I use especially when I know I will be using lots of it like sharpening an axe. With my Norton sharpening station, I do use the Norton mineral oil.

I have always been concerned with using actual baby oil with other additives just because I am worried about them drying in the stone (again, not that I have ever heard anyone ever say that it happened to them, but I did see it written in some material). I expect that if you sharpen often enough it will no be a problem. I have let some stones sitting in a zip lock bag with lots of oil on them and did not have a problem and I could not begin to tell you what mineral oil I used on them. These were Norton India and Crysolone stones that still work fine even if I leave them sitting for some years before I get back to them.

What a great tip about checking the viscosity, especially if the bottle is clear; had not thought of that.

Has anyone even heard of somebody having mineral oil gum up (usually claimed due to evaporation of something or other) in a stone? I have heard of people cleaning stones that had things gummed up in them but the claim was generally not about mineral oil being left but more that the stone had not been kept suitably clean. If it was an India or Crystolone type stone they are cheap enough I would just replace it. An Arkansas stone I might worry about.

[Scott Winners]

I have a Norton 3 stone system, an IM313. Used to belong to my grandpa. He used motor oil in it from about 1950 to 1980. I am confident motor oil additives are more sophisticated now than they were 50-80 years ago - but the stones that came with the unit were not gummed up. I was using 3 in 1 oil on the old motor oil soaked stones with no problems except for the dish in the stones.

Along with new stones, I bought two quarts of the Norton oil and am happy with it. The only downside to the Norton oil I could find online was the price, I didn't see anywhere on the internet anyone make any other complaint about the Norton oil on Norton stones. I figure if I am not happy with my sharpening results using the Norton oil on the Norton stones either my technique is bad or I am using the wrong tool for the job.

[Jim Koepke]

Has anyone even heard of somebody having mineral oil gum up (usually claimed due to evaporation of something or other) in a stone? I have heard of people cleaning stones that had things gummed up in them but the claim was generally not about mineral oil being left but more that the stone had not been kept suitably clean.

If there is much swarf in the oil on a stone it needs to be wiped off before putting the stone away. Mineral oil isn't a polymerizing or drying oil. If a stone is left uncovered with oil on it, it may get gummed up from dust over time.

There is nothing about baby oil being 'food grade' on the container. If it is put on a baby's hands or arms, it is going to get into the baby's mouth.

Mineral oil in the pharmacy section is labeled "lubricant/laxative." If you can take a couple table spoonfuls as a laxative, it better be safe if a little gets on your knives and cutting boards.

This reminds me of another form of mineral oil sold in retail establishments is cutting board oil. That may be more expensive than the more pedestrian mineral oils.

My knives are always washed thoroughly after they go to the shop for a sharpening. Though many feed stores carry gallon containers of mineral oil the price is often not better than buying from a grocery pharmacy section by the pint. The last time a MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) was requested the people at the store thought they had that information but couldn't find it. Since my mineral oil gets used on my cutting boards having something known to be safe for surfaces that come into contact with food is important.

Another thought about mineral oil sold in feed stores is it may be thickker than the mineral oil one finds on their grocer's shelf.

jtk

[James Pallas]

I’ve always used mineral oil. It seems to stay on the stone and not run off the edge. I was taught the oil is used to float the swarf and keep it out of the stone. The other thing I was taught is do not use paper towels. The stone will cut the paper and that will build up and clog the stone. Oil, lint free rag and blot not rub. Stones get oily and box gets oily but not messy. Best of all one kind of oil in the shop. Cutting oil, protectant oil, general oiling for tools and machines and for oneself if needed.
Jim

[Jim Koepke]

Best of all one kind of oil in the shop. Cutting oil, protectant oil, general oiling for tools and machines and for oneself if needed.

Hmm, my generation has always thought it best to stay away from sharp things when one is 'quite well oiled.' :eek::D

jtk

[James Pallas]

Well said Jim😂

[Dennis Droege]

Here's a very late comment: I had a little business 35 years or so ago going around to cookware stores with my oilstones (Crystolon, India, Arkansas) in a bag, sharpening knives folks would bring in. At that time, I began to use mineral oil; bought it from farm supply stores by the gallon. As of this date, I'm about halfway down on my second gallon and have been very happy with it.