16" J/P Combo or 20"

[derek labian]

Hello, I was planning to buy a 16" J/P combo to replace my 8" Jointer and 20" planer. The price difference between the 16" and the 20" combo is about $3500, and a long lead time. I don't think its a problem today, however I don't want to find myself needing more space in the future and regretting stepping down. My question for you woodworkers with 15" planers is, do you long for a 20"+ and if you have a 20", do you often need the width?

[Robert LaPlaca]

Derek it kind of depends on what you build. If you don’t commonly use or have wide wood available, it might not be so important.

I build period furniture, so wide wood is very regularly used. I have a 16” jointer/planer, I would love to have a 20”. Was just moving around some 5/4 30” wide Mahogany today

[Lisa Starr]

I had a 15" Planer and moved down to a 12" J/P. I can't say I've missed those 3". I'm sure I will someday, but so far...

[derek labian]

Derek it kind of depends on what you build. If you don’t commonly use or have wide wood available, it might not be so important.

I build period furniture, so wide wood is very regularly used. I have a 16” jointer/planer, I would love to have a 20”. Was just moving around some 5/4 30” wide Mahogany today

Hi Robert,

I do a variety of work including cabinetry and furniture. I've only use the width of my 20" planer once for a 17" glueup. It seemed to me that 20" is either too little (for most glueups) or to much for individual planks.

[mreza Salav]

I have rarely needed more than 14" of joining width that I have (have had some 18" cherry and Mahogany). For large glue-ups they go through the sander (37").
How often do you think you need the extra 4" of planing and is it worth $3500 extra to you? Only you can answer that. For vast majority of people here I "guess" the answer is 16" would be good enough.

[Ed Aumiller]

buy the 16" and keep your 20" planer

[Zachary Hoyt]

I build comma furniture, it's more at my skill level. I don't need something wide very often. I sold my 15" planer this summer. I do have a 19/38 drum sander for those occasions when something wide needs to be flattened. It's very slow at planing type work, but I don't have to do it much so it's fine. I have an old DeWalt 733 that I use for planing when that's called for, it is wide enough for most of what I do. I did like the 15" planer when I had live edge 8/4 pieces I was selling and I could plane them for customers, but I didn't use that width often for my own builds.

[Erik Loza]

My experience: J/P's are like bandsaws. There inevitably will come a point where you wish you had a larger one but for the vast majority of us, life is about compromise. There are budget issues, size issues, power issues (plenty of single-phase 16" options. All 20" options will be 3-phase and if any onboard electronics, will require a solid-state converter, not rotary or VFD inverter). So, for residential customers, there will be more to consider than just the initial price difference. Our old 4Runner was 4WD and I did use 4X4 once in a while but it was also work and cost to maintain. The transfer case required fluid changes and I had to replace the front CV boots, which was more expense. Our current 4Runner is 2WD. I knew there would probably be times when I wished I had 4X4 (like during Freezmageddon last February) but on the whole, I feel like it was the right decision in the long run. Certainly, everyone's wallet is their own and you should buy what you want but in my experience, there will always come a situation where you had bigger/wider/longer/etc. and you will make yourself nuts trying to speculatively plan around stuff like that. If you get a 20", then you'll wish you had a 24" some day. If you have a 24", you'll wish you had larger some day, and so on. So, my suggestion to any customer is to just accept the fact that no matter what you end up with, there will be those times where you wish you had more and don't allow this to paralyze your planning process. Hope this makes sense.

Erik

[Patrick Kane]

I have a 20" planer and 20" jointer. I find myself using the full 19.5-20" of my planer often, and very rarely using the full 20" on the jointer. In fact, ive only used the full capacity of the jointer once, and it was about a month ago. A pair of walnut slabs for my sister's table that were 19" at their widest. I think 16" will cover you quite well for a jointer, but would hamper my workflow a bit as a planer. I often dress sub-assemblies before their final full width glue up. Really, a 24-25" planer would be substantially better, because i do a fair amount of tops that are 42-48" wide. If you never plane glueups, then i think a 16" J/P is perfect. I think 20" would cover 98" of your lumber supply, and the 16" probably covers 94%. Unless you specifically seek it out, material greater than 16" is uncommon. I love wide material when i can get it, but dimensional walnut over 13-14" is uncommon for me. You have the 20" now, and you know if you use it or not. If not, use it for the next 6 months and take note of how often you maxed out your planer.

I am unfamiliar with the design differences between a 16" combo and a 20" combo. I assume 20" forces you into the dual 51 class, which i have to imagine has a lot more benefit than just 4" over a 700 or 900 series J/P.

One final devil's advocate proposition. What is your shop space and setup like? Most jointers and planers nest next to one another pretty well. I can measure the total width of my setup, but i could put them even closer to one another if i wanted. Google Martin's T54 and T45 setup next to one another. That is a 20" jointer and 24" planer that occupy about 6' of total width. 20" standalone jointers arent that common in the States, but 16"s come up for sale all the time.

[derek labian]

My experience: J/P's are like bandsaws. There inevitably will come a point where you wish you had a larger one but for the vast majority of us, life is about compromise. There are budget issues, size issues, power issues (plenty of single-phase 16" options. All 20" options will be 3-phase and if any onboard electronics, will require a solid-state converter, not rotary or VFD inverter). So, for residential customers, there will be more to consider than just the initial price difference. Our old 4Runner was 4WD and I did use 4X4 once in a while but it was also work and cost to maintain. The transfer case required fluid changes and I had to replace the front CV boots, which was more expense. Our current 4Runner is 2WD. I knew there would probably be times when I wished I had 4X4 (like during Freezmageddon last February) but on the whole, I feel like it was the right decision in the long run. Certainly, everyone's wallet is their own and you should buy what you want but in my experience, there will always come a situation where you had bigger/wider/longer/etc. and you will make yourself nuts trying to speculatively plan around stuff like that. If you get a 20", then you'll wish you had a 24" some day. If you have a 24", you'll wish you had larger some day, and so on. So, my suggestion to any customer is to just accept the fact that no matter what you end up with, there will be those times where you wish you had more and don't allow this to paralyze your planning process. Hope this makes sense.

Erik

Sage advice.

[Andrew Hughes]

I have a 12 inch Oliver that covers all sizes in width wood. I can rip slabs in half and join them back together and none will be the wiser.
It’s that accurate no glue lines maybe a slight lose of harmony in the grain.
I would choose the jointer with the bigger cutting circle if there is a difference between 16 and 20.
My jointer has a 5 inch cutting circle
Good Luck

[derek labian]

I build comma furniture, it's more at my skill level. I don't need something wide very often. I sold my 15" planer this summer. I do have a 19/38 drum sander for those occasions when something wide needs to be flattened. It's very slow at planing type work, but I don't have to do it much so it's fine. I have an old DeWalt 733 that I use for planing when that's called for, it is wide enough for most of what I do. I did like the 15" planer when I had live edge 8/4 pieces I was selling and I could plane them for customers, but I didn't use that width often for my own builds.

That more or less what I was thinking. For larger glue ups the money might be better invested in a drum (or someday wide belt) sander.

[derek labian]

One final devil's advocate proposition. What is your shop space and setup like? Most jointers and planers nest next to one another pretty well. I can measure the total width of my setup, but i could put them even closer to one another if i wanted. Google Martin's T54 and T45 setup next to one another. That is a 20" jointer and 24" planer that occupy about 6' of total width. 20" standalone jointers arent that common in the States, but 16"s come up for sale all the time.

Its small, which is why I'm going to a combo. Interesting thoughts about split glueups, if you do a 42 or 48 panel, I see your point.

[Erik Loza]

Food for thought: If someone REALLY needs to have a wide slab fly-milled, sanded, etc., I'm certain there are local shops or dealers who could handle that. For example, Berdoll Sawmill here in the Austin area. It's a pretty common practice among pro shops to sub those one-off jobs to other shops, rather than pay the initial cost premium between, say, a 37" widebelt and a 43" or 52" when you only have a need once or twice a year.

Erik

[Albert Lee]

Hello, I was planning to buy a 16" J/P combo to replace my 8" Jointer and 20" planer. The price difference between the 16" and the 20" combo is about $3500, and a long lead time. I don't think its a problem today, however I don't want to find myself needing more space in the future and regretting stepping down. My question for you woodworkers with 15" planers is, do you long for a 20"+ and if you have a 20", do you often need the width?

Before I bought my 20" JP combo, I was using a 16" JP Combo. the 16" was adequate, but I find myself needing 20" from time to time. 20" jointer on its own is quite expensive anyhow. so a 20" JP combo seems to be very reasonable consider you get 2 machines in one.

I have used the 20" capacity on the jointer a few times already.

[Prashun Patel]

Only you can answer that. For me, 12” JP is fine. In fact, the older I get, the less I make wife, heavy things.

Ask yourself how many tables you will realistically make if you are not a pro.

[derek labian]

Only you can answer that. For me, 12” JP is fine. In fact, the older I get, the less I make wife, heavy things.

Ask yourself how many tables you will realistically make if you are not a pro.

I know what I'm using now, but I'm looking for the benefit of others who find themselves needing 20" planers and why so I can better judge if its likely I will need it in the future :)

[derek labian]

Here's a thread on SMC I didn't find originally discussing the same topic.

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?262636-20-vs-15-planer

and

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?158197-Planer-Capacity-15-quot-vs-20-quot-A-Request-for-Opinions

and

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?122599-Planer-15-vs-20

I think my error was searching for 16", all the threads are 15" vs 20"

[derek labian]

Good advice in this thread and the 3 historical ones I've found. I decided to measure a bunch of common things I would make to see if the extra 4" would make much difference. It turns out it doesn't really. Everything I measured was either less than 16" and more than 20", but also less than 32" or more than 40". So that sweet spot of 16"-20" and 32" to 40" I didn't find a single item. I guess that decision is made for me. Thanks for all the feedback.

[Mark e Kessler]

I had a 24" SCM planer when I had my business when I closed it I sold it and kept my scm FS350 which I had for about 25yrs which was about 13.5", initially - well for years I missed that 24" scm then a few years back I replaced the FS350 with a 16" j/p I can tell you now i would not go back to a 12" j/p and don't really find myself wanting a 20". when I get more space I will probably get a larger standalone planer but mostly because j/p's are lacking some features like a pressure bar for instance and switch over sucks and I have a power table.... I build medium to small size furniture and some cabinetry...

[Jim Becker]

While there have been a number of times I have wished for the slightly larger 410mm (16") J/P over the 250mm (13.6") version I have, even with my love of wide material there haven't been many situations where more than 410mm would have been helpful and justify the extra cost to own. If I really need to do something with wider dimensions, I have access for a small fee, to a super-wide dual drum sander (up to 62" I believe) as well as a Logosol router based flattening system at a local lumber supplier. I have had them do slabs, for example, or surface glued up table and island type tops. So yea...if that extra 4" isn't going to help all that much, go with the 410mm unit and don't look back.

[Brian Holcombe]

Had I the space I would take a 20 or 24” J/P or 30” stand alone with a 24” finish planer and a 36” roughing planer.

[derek labian]

While there have been a number of times I have wished for the slightly larger 410mm (16") J/P over the 250mm (13.6") version I have, even with my love of wide material there haven't been many situations where more than 410mm would have been helpful and justify the extra cost to own. If I really need to do something with wider dimensions, I have access for a small fee, to a super-wide dual drum sander (up to 62" I believe) as well as a Logosol router based flattening system at a local lumber supplier. I have had them do slabs, for example, or surface glued up table and island type tops. So yea...if that extra 4" isn't going to help all that much, go with the 410mm unit and don't look back.

Thanks Jim!

[Prashun Patel]

I’m not trying to convince you one way or the other, but the guys who value the wide planers appear to me to be super hobbyists or pros. For the rest - which I suspect are many on this forum, a large jointer and planer may be a once a year nice-to-have. That has been the case with me. Ymmv.

There are very few times I have even found single rough boards wider than 14” and any glued up panels are very often wider than 16 or 20”. But this is a hobbyist talking - not a production shop.

[Rod Wolfy]

I had a 12" j/p. It worked well; however, I kept wanting bigger. I got a 19-38 drum sander. It's nice, but it burns hardwoods with ease if I try to go over about 1/32" per pass.

I got a Hammer 3-41 a couple months ago. I love the extra 4". I would love a 20" j/p, but I'm not willing to spend another $4k for the few times I'd use it. If I had a project that actually needed another 4" of jointer space, I'd go find a commercial shop and rent it for an hour or just figure out a work around (for the $4k, you could easily buy a 24" planer).

[Holmes Anderson]

Like you, I am currently using an 8" jointer and 20" planer and previously considered JP combo machines as an alternative to save floor space and increase jointing capacity. I haven't often used the full 20" width of the planer but could use more than 8" of jointing capacity. A few things convinced me not to go with a JP combo. One thing is that JP combo machines are more complex than dedicated machines so you will have to buy a relatively expensive machine like a Hammer or SCM to minimize problems. Those machines are heavy and will be difficult to move into a shop without a forklift or pallet jack through a loading dock or garage door, none of which I have. Another thing is the switchover time, which is something like 45 seconds at a minimum for the SCM. Those things may not be significant drawbacks for you.

[Rod Sheridan]

I have a 12 inch j/p and have only once wanted a wider jointer.

I glue up large pieces and do the finishing with a scraping plane, normally don’t need more than a few strokes to get a decent glue up, it’s amazing how sensitive your fingertips can be for glue alignment…..Rod.

[Alan Lightstone]

I switched from a 16" combo J/P to separates - a 16" jointer and 20" planer. It's been extremely rare that the planer wasn't wide enough, and also pretty uncommon that the 16" jointer wasn't wide enough.

What I regret buying was only a 24" wide belt sander. I wish I had purchased a 37" one. Truly have needed that far more than a wider planer, and certainly a wider jointer. FWIW.

[derek labian]

I switched from a 16" combo J/P to separates - a 16" jointer and 20" planer. It's been extremely rare that the planer wasn't wide enough, and also pretty uncommon that the 16" jointer wasn't wide enough.

What I regret buying was only a 24" wide belt sander. I wish I had purchased a 37" one. Truly have needed that far more than a wider planer, and certainly a wider jointer. FWIW.

Good advice. If I only had the space for a wide-belt... but I can't really move, and the biggest shop I could build is 15'x35'. :(

[Warren Lake]

im neither for or against combo machines. I have them and they work fine. It took 9 seconds to change the jointer into a planer. Even if it took a minute every time at the end of a 100 hour job it doesnt even register.

Tables can come off at least on mine and reduce it to a much lighter and smaller machine to move.

All the old guys had stroke sanders in their shops, no mystery there that's what they had when they apprenticed. They knew what they could do on them and that they didn't cost much or take big power.