Mudroom built in material - melamine or plywood

[Matt Day]

I am building a pretty extensive built in for our mudroom to clean it up and organize it. I had planned to use 5x5 Baltic birch and spray it white, but the thought occurred to me how much easier it would be to A) skip the painting step and B) have a durable and easily cleanable surface especially in a MUD room with 2 kids. I would buy it from a reputable lumber supplier, NOT the BORG.

Ive worked with melamine before and know how finicky and easily it chips, and I know it’s heavy, and I have all the edge banding tools. Besides that, am I overlooking any negatives about the material? I know some will say melamine is plastic-y, which it is but it’s a mudroom.

Eliminating the painting step is a pretty huge benefit as I can just build and install rather than dealing with setting up my paint booth in the garage and dealing with fumes and wait times, etc. I’d plan to build shaker style doors out of poplar and ply and spray them, but once I’m at that point the cabinets would be useable and I’d have less pressure to complete them.

Thoughts, suggestions?

[Ron Selzer]

Melamine all the way and very small bead of caulk at all corners

[Jamie Buxton]

When you say "melamine" do you mean "particle board with a thin layer of factory-applied melamine"? If so, I wouldn't put it where it is likely to get wet. Particle board turns to mush if it gets wet. I'd use plywood.

[Matt Day]

Yes, that’s melamine. But the big box store carries sub par material. Plywood retailers sell a better product with thicker melamine.

I’d put a light bead of caulk in the corners like Ron suggested.

[Von Bickley]

I don't use particle board anywhere. I would use 4X8 sheets of birch plywood.

[Matt Day]

I don't use particle board anywhere. I would use 4X8 sheets of birch plywood.


Why? Seems like it has some good qualities.

[Ron Selzer]

all shelving in garage is melamine from Lowes about 20 years old
some is showing damage from liquids, none has been repaired or replaced
1/3 has been overloaded from get go, still hanging on wall
none has finished edges or doors
held together with biscuits and 2" screws, fastened to wall with 3" screws into studs, some walls are drywall, some are 1" foam board
cheap melamine is rugged stuff

[Von Bickley]

Why? Seems like it has some good qualities.
It will lose all of it's good qualities as soon as it gets wet.

[John TenEyck]

Melamine is great stuff for all the reasons you cited. I made my kitchen out of Borg Melamine more than 25 years ago and geez, against all odds from what the critics said, it's just fine. No finishing, much tougher coating than any paint, really easy to clean. Yes, it swells if the underlying particle board gets wet so the key is to keep it from getting wet. Key to that is setting the cabinets on a separate ladder base, not directly on the floor. Sink cabinets get caulked joints.

Personally, I would not use Baltic birch if I wanted painted cabinets. I'd use PlumaPly HD which has a plywood core and 2 mm of HDF on one or both sides. It's good structurally and paints much better than plywood. Still, a lot more work than Melamine and I have not found any paint as durable.

Melamine? Go for it.

John

[Jim Becker]

THe melamine coated product is perfectly fine and valid for this kind of project for the reasons you surmise. What you may want to do is talk to a sheet goods distributor that caters to cabinet makers, etc., (most will sell to individuals, too) and see what other alternatives they sell for pre-finished white. The guy who lives across the street from our previous residence swears by a product that I cannot remember the name of at this point that is really nice but based on plywood core rather than particle board, which means no special confirmat fasteners are needed, etc.

[Matt Day]

Great to hear John. I appreciate your input. I will likely caulk all seems that will see a dirty/wet shoe or a wet jacket.

Do you suggest using Roo glue? I’d use confirmat screws where they are hidden, and on the exposed faces I’ll pocket hole and glue. Glue every joint or are confirmat screws alone good enough?

[Matt Day]

Jim, MDO?

https://www.sfsignsupply.com/shop/product/12mmX48X120-Prefinished-MDO-Plywood-enamel-prime

[Edwin Santos]

The box retailers mostly stock a lower quality cold rolled melamine product. What you would want is thermofused melamine which not only gets you a better melamine coating, but in my experience, the PB core is denser too. A good lumber supplier will stock it and it shouldn't cost much more than the cold rolled stuff at HD or Lowes.

With regard to chipping, a project like this might justify purchasing a good melamine blade. The one I use is the Forrest Duraline HI-AT. With it I get nearly chip free cuts. Occasionally a small chip will sneak in here and there. If it were a critical cut, you could always consider a shallow scoring cut first.

I personally prefer biscuit joining or doweling PB cases over pocket holes or confirmats. But if you are anchoring the cabinets to walls, then confirmats should be fine. I have not had great results with Roo Glue as much as I wanted to love it. I have not tried the Titebond Melamine glue product, but people say it's good.

Hope this is helpful

[Matt Day]

Good advice Edwin. I do have a melamine blade and normally do a scoring cut - the raising lowering of the blade side gets old though! It’ll
Make sure to do a full table saw alignment before I start cutting. I’ve used it before for a couple projects so I know what I’m getting into. Thx

[Dave Sabo]

You can buy crap plywood that turns to cardboard when it gets wet too. But y’all love you some plywood now don’t ya ?

You can order melamine with waterproof glue that can remain submerged in water for a very long time before degrading.
It’s all about the material you specify and how up you assemble it. Melamine is not inherently bad nor is plywood inherently good.

For the melamine I get , cut on my saws - I get better results with a Freud laminate/ melamine TCG blade than I do with a Forrest Duraline.

[Matt Day]

Thanks Dave. A stable sheet good like melamine is nice to work with because it’s flat. I’ve had too much plywood potato chip and I have to force things together. Not good, especially for frameless cabinets with tall runs like on the side of a locker.

Glad to hear I’m not crazy. I’ll make tradition shaker doors with poplar and ply which I’ll paint, but the boxes will be so much easier with melamine.

[roger wiegand]

I really like prefinished maple plywood for this sort of application. Remarkably tough stuff and much lighter and less nasty dust to deal with than with particle board or MDF. But if you want white then go with the melamine, I prefer the look of wood in most applications.

[Jim Becker]

Jim, MDO?

I've enjoyed the MDO that I've worked with, Matt. Paints up nicely for sure.

Dave makes a good point. The specific product chosen matters.

[Kevin Jenness]

To me the primary drawbacks of melamine coated particleboard are weight, relative low strength, difficulty of cutting w/o chipping and vulnerability to water. All of these can be mitigated except weight.

Flatness, stability, economy and finish durability are prime advantages.

I wasn't aware of the availability of a moisture resistant core in mcp. Would definitely be a plus for sink cabinets and the like. Standard veneer core ply is not immune to water problems.

Chipout can be solved with proper tooling. Before I had a scoring saw I got the best results with a high angle atb blade in a tablesaw. If the boxes are designed so that only one face is visible and shelves have a wide nosing chipout is less of an issue.

Shelf deflection can be limited by keeping lengths short or adding deep solid wood edging at front and back. Shelf pin holes in the back can substitute for nosing on the back of the shelf.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I actually like melamine in the right places. If you mind the anti-sagging construction details and keep it dry, it can be the best material for some things. Some has thicker melamine, the thin stuff can be wiped through pretty quickly if used for something like a restaurant table. I do not know which spec or brand to get/avoid, but in my experience, borg is thin, my lumber supplier is fine, and there is actually some thicker stuff out there if you can find it.

I cut it with a scoring saw but as mentioned above, there are ways to avoid that. The stuff is ridiculously heavy. I use a forklift to handle it in the shop but that's harder to do in the field.

[Rob Sack]

I avoid melamine as much as possible. It is heavy, hard on blades, and really difficult, but not impossible, to get a clean cut top and bottom without a scoring saw. One one commercial job for one of these chain juice stores, we were required to use melamine. One of the sinks had a small but persistent leak. Within six months the entire front of the cabinet had swelled 50%, from 3/4" to 1 1/8". No matter how tight the joints are, how secure the edge banding is, or how much caulk is used, all it takes is one scratch through the surface or one chip at the edge banding. Once water is introduced, it's game over. Even if the OP uses baltic birch, I would want to make sure that exterior glue was used in the manufacturing of the panels. I would much prefer to use baltic birch made with exterior glue, MDO, or exterior grade MDF over melamine. On the very rare occasion when I have had to use melamine for base cabinets, I have always used European style leg levelers and attached the rough tops from below, inside the cabinet. That way, if and when the melamine is damaged, the cabinet can be removed and replaced without sacrificing the countertop.

Whatever the OP decides to use, I would also suggest using some kind of mat or pan at the bottom of the cabinets to insure against water damage. Weathertech makes a pretty nice rubber pad designed for sink cabinets and in the past we have even had stainless steel pans custom made to prevent water damage.

[John TenEyck]

I use biscuits and yellow glue and coarse thread wood screws. Never used Confirmat screws. Never had a Melamine cabinet come apart. I did try Roo Glue but decided it wasn't needed as long as I used biscuits, yellow glue, and screws. I made the drawers for my kitchen out of 5/8" Melamine. The corners are held together with just biscuits and yellow glue. 25+ years of daily use with regular drawer slides, not soft close, and they are still together; not one joint has opened up.

John

[Mike Kees]

I use Roo glue on melamine cabinets all the time. My cabinet maker friend who taught me how to build cabinets grabbed two pieces of scrap one day and glued it up with Roo, clamped it and when I left that day sent me home with the piece. His instructions were to take it to my shop in the morning and try to break the joint. I did ,the joint did not break the melamine around it gave way when I installed it in my vise and squeezed. So I have used it ever since. I also use coarse thread screws specifically for melamine from my cabinet wholesaler. I have used Confirmats some in the past but do not think they are worth the additional cost, I saw no strength advantage to them. John I am going to try a sample scrap glue up with yellow glue versus Roo with just a butt joint like my friend did for me years ago just to see what happens.

[Matt Day]

Mike - what type of course thread screws?

[Mike Kees]

Mike - what type of course thread screws?
No name brand on the box. Described as a "#2 square drive with 4 nibs #8-9 particle board screw with 2/3 threads. " The tip has a slash in it like the one on GRK construction screws. There was also a hardness spec on the label but I can not remember what is was.

[Matt Day]

Pilot holed first of course right?

I have the Fastcap Powerhead system already and would be tempted to use those.

[John TenEyck]

Mike, yellow glue doesn't stick to Melamine. That's why I use biscuits with glue, and screws.

John

[Zachary Caldwell]

Melamine is only the outer coating. You may be able to find at a good sheet good supplier Melamine layed on an armorcore, or a product like white laminate on plywood. I've used both and had great luck, and no particle board.

[Mike Kees]

Pilot holed first of course right?

I have the Fastcap Powerhead system already and would be tempted to use those.
Yep. Predrill and then screw.

[Mike Kees]

Mike, yellow glue doesn't stick to Melamine. That's why I use biscuits with glue, and screws.

John
That is what I remembered, but thought I may have been wrong. So basically biscuits align and give some strength but the screws are doing most of the heavy lifting in the strength department.

[Curt Harms]

You can buy crap plywood that turns to cardboard when it gets wet too. But y’all love you some plywood now don’t ya ?

You can order melamine with waterproof glue that can remain submerged in water for a very long time before degrading.
It’s all about the material you specify and how up you assemble it. Melamine is not inherently bad nor is plywood inherently good.

For the melamine I get , cut on my saws - I get better results with a Freud laminate/ melamine TCG blade than I do with a Forrest Duraline.

That seems like the best of both worlds. You can't beat good melamine for easy care and clean up. I didn't know there was water resistant particle board though it's not a surprise, the process is probably not that different than Advantech sheathing. There is also water resistant MDF, not generally found at BORGS though. I use the term water resistant because I'm not sure it would meet the definition of water proof but it can get wet without crumbling.

[Rick Potter]

A bit late to the party as usual, but I have several melamine cabinets in the garage and shop that are decades old.

Simple plastic nail on foot pads keep them 1/4" off the floor, and I have had no moisture problems at all.