Bandsaw blade tracking on wheel questions

[Bernie Kopfer]

I have a Rikon 18" with flat tires and a Jet 14" with crowned tires. I track blades on both with the gullets centered on the wheels. Seems to be working fine, minimal drift and cutting very straight. Looked at the Rikon manual and they say to center the blade on the wheel, not the teeth. I am making a circle cutting jig for each bandsaw and the pivot point would optimally (from what I've read) be lined up with the bottom of the gullet. so I'd like to be tracking the blade as best possible before I place the pivot point track on the jig. I know the saying "if it works, don't fix it" but I cannot help myself, I want to optimize my setup.
Should blades be tracked differently on flat vs crowned tires? And should the teeth be centered or the blade itself?

[Erik Loza]

My method on FLAT-tired bandsaws:
-Any blade <1/2": Track with the gullet anywhere around center or wherever is easiest to line up with the guides.
-Any blade >1/2": Hang the teeth off the front edges of the tires.

Erik

[John TenEyck]

Some folks say with crowned wheels to put the back of the gullet on the centerline of the upper wheel. That works for narrow blades but not once you start using 1" and wider blades. Too much of the blade would be near the back edge of the wheel. So I center the blade on the centerline of the upper wheel regardless of blade width. That way an equal amount is always front/behind the center of the crown. This is how the manual for my Grizzly G0636X bandsaw recommends installing blades and it works well on both it and my little 14" Delta, both of which have crowned wheels.

John

[Mel Fulks]

In employments I’ve seen some strange bandsaws. Saw hanging way out on one wheel like a magic trick. New hires would often try to “fix”
them. A fool’s errand finally stopped by a decree from owner, “STOP messing with it !” Each of the attempts kept the saw out of use and was
a total failure . Leave goofy ,but dependable, bandsaws alone.

[Mike Kees]

John ,I followed your extensive post "back in the day' when you bought and installed that grizzly into your house. Kind of surprised that that saw has crowned wheels. Obviously it works great that way. Wonder at what blade width do flat wheels become desirable ? What width blade are you using your grizzly with ? I know you use it as a dedicated resaw/ripping machine. I have a Centauro CO 600 with flat wheels where I run the teeth of the edge of the wheel . Also have a delta 14'' where I run the blade centered like you describe. The Centauro will probably never see a blade narrower than 3/4'' and my Delta will pretty well be running 3/8'' blades as I have a coil of blade stock that will probably outlast me.

[John TenEyck]

John ,I followed your extensive post "back in the day' when you bought and installed that grizzly into your house. Kind of surprised that that saw has crowned wheels. Obviously it works great that way. Wonder at what blade width do flat wheels become desirable ? What width blade are you using your grizzly with ? I know you use it as a dedicated resaw/ripping machine. I have a Centauro CO 600 with flat wheels where I run the teeth of the edge of the wheel . Also have a delta 14'' where I run the blade centered like you describe. The Centauro will probably never see a blade narrower than 3/4'' and my Delta will pretty well be running 3/8'' blades as I have a coil of blade stock that will probably outlast me.

Mike, 95% of the time a 1" x 1.3 tpi Woodmaster CT is on my 17" Grizzly. The only time I use something else is when I'm cutting bowl blanks. Then I use a 3/8" x 4 tpi - centered on the top wheel. The Grizzly is rated for blades up to 1-3/8". I'll never use one that wide but supposedly it works OK on crowned wheels. I would think flat wheels would be better on blades that wide. For half inch and narrower I think the nod is clearly to crowned wheels.

John

[Jim Becker]

What Erik said...

[John K Jordan]

I have a Rikon 18" with flat tires and a Jet 14" with crowned tires. I track blades on both with the gullets centered on the wheels. Seems to be working fine, minimal drift and cutting very straight. Looked at the Rikon manual and they say to center the blade on the wheel, not the teeth. I am making a circle cutting jig for each bandsaw and the pivot point would optimally (from what I've read) be lined up with the bottom of the gullet. so I'd like to be tracking the blade as best possible before I place the pivot point track on the jig. I know the saying "if it works, don't fix it" but I cannot help myself, I want to optimize my setup.
Should blades be tracked differently on flat vs crowned tires? And should the teeth be centered or the blade itself?

Curious as to which Rikon has flat tires. My 10-345 18" is crowned.

[Bernie Kopfer]

Curious as to which Rikon has flat tires. My 10-345 18 (tel:10-345 18)" is crowned.

I have the Rikon 10-347. I love the saw and actually have used most of the cutting height a couple of times. The low table is cursed by some but has not been a problem for me. But last week the starting capacitor went out and of course Rikon tech diagnosed the problem immediately;and then sent me a invoice to tell me they were sorry but they were back ordered!😤 Hope the replacement I get are better than the OEM, they only lasted 10months.
Back to the original question I’m just going to center the blades. That has worked so far and unless someone has some researched compelling evidence otherwise the advice to leave what works alone is “compelling”.

[John K Jordan]

I have the Rikon 10-347. I love the saw and actually have used most of the cutting height a couple of times. The low table is cursed by some but has not been a problem for me. But last week the starting capacitor went out and of course Rikon tech diagnosed the problem immediately;and then sent me a invoice to tell me they were sorry but they were back ordered!😤 Hope the replacement I get are better than the OEM, they only lasted 10months.
Back to the original question I’m just going to center the blades. That has worked so far and unless someone has some researched compelling evidence otherwise the advice to leave what works alone is “compelling”.

FYI, you can still use the bandsaw with the starter capacitor missing. Hold a stick of wood in your right hand and when turning on the saw place the wood against the teeth of the blade and push downward to give the motor a "jump start". I used my 18" Rikon for a month that way until I got the capacitor from Rikon. (We also use the hand start method for lathes that have burned out the capacitor. One friend has been using hers for a year like that. As a bonus, you can twist the lathe the other way and make it run in reverse. Not too useful on a bandsaw...)

You can temporarily replace the capacitor with any start capacitor that has the same or higher voltage and capacitance numbers. If it's too big to fit in the motor housing you can hang it anywhere, just make sure the wires are insulated. Any local motor shop can fix you up. If you can't read the number of the original capacitor, Rikon should be able to tell you.

JKJ

[Edwin Santos]

I would advise designing your circle cutting jig so it can be shifted forward or back.

If you set it up, and cut a piece of scrap to check and the blade is rubbing on the left side of the kerf, shift the pivot point back. If the blade is rubbing on the right, shift the pivot forward. If the blade is centered in the kerf, you're cutting true and you'll be fine.
I do not believe it is realistic to set the pivot point in one perfect place for every radius and different blades that you might use so some ability to shift it will be useful.

[John TenEyck]

If you have a motor shop nearby just take the capacitor to them for a replacement. If the motor is easy to remove take the whole motor and they'll do a complete check and fix what's needed. Most offer good service at very reasonable prices.

John

[Jeff Ramsey]

I have the Rikon 10-347. I love the saw and actually have used most of the cutting height a couple of times. The low table is cursed by some but has not been a problem for me. But last week the starting capacitor went out and of course Rikon tech diagnosed the problem immediately;and then sent me a invoice to tell me they were sorry but they were back ordered! Hope the replacement I get are better than the OEM, they only lasted 10months.
Back to the original question I’m just going to center the blades. That has worked so far and unless someone has some researched compelling evidence otherwise the advice to leave what works alone is “compelling”.

My start capacitor went on my Oneida dust collection Baldor motor recently and I went straight to Grainger and bought Daytons. I replaced the run capacitor as well. Mechanically, they were compatible so there wasn't a fit issue under the covers.

On my Felder FB510 bandsaw, I hang the teeth over the flat tires but I only use wide blades for resawing on that bandsaw. On my older Powermatic 16" bandsaw, I center the blade regardless of the size (although I don't use as wide a blade as the FB510) and the tires are flat (I replaced the original crowned tires with flats). I've never had an issue with either setup.

[Bernie Kopfer]

FYI, you can still use the bandsaw with the starter capacitor missing. Hold a stick of wood in your right hand and when turning on the saw place the wood against the teeth of the blade and push downward to give the motor a "jump start". I used my 18" Rikon for a month that way until I got the capacitor from Rikon. (We also use the hand start method for lathes that have burned out the capacitor. One friend has been using hers for a year like that. As a bonus, you can twist the lathe the other way and make it run in reverse. Not too useful on a bandsaw...)

You can temporarily replace the capacitor with any start capacitor that has the same or higher voltage and capacitance numbers. If it's too big to fit in the motor housing you can hang it anywhere, just make sure the wires are insulated. Any local motor shop can fix you up. If you can't read the number of the original capacitor, Rikon should be able to tell you.

JKJ
Thanks John, I decided to give the bypass technique a couple of tries but it would not come up to speed and then threw the panel breaker. Called Rikon to ask about the backorder 30-90 days! He also said that it appears that the running capacitor is not doing its thing. That’s why they were sending me (eventually) both capacitors. So down to the local motor store I go

[Bernie Kopfer]

I would advise designing your circle cutting jig so it can be shifted forward or back.

If you set it up, and cut a piece of scrap to check and the blade is rubbing on the left side of the kerf, shift the pivot point back. If the blade is rubbing on the right, shift the pivot forward. If the blade is centered in the kerf, you're cutting true and you'll be fine.
I do not believe it is realistic to set the pivot point in one perfect place for every radius and different blades that you might use so some ability to shift it will be useful.

Good point , will design accordingly.