Hammer K3 Winner 48x48 thoughts?

[Jacob Mac]

I'm kicking around getting the Hammer K3 Winner 48x48 sliding table saw. Does anyone have one? Experience with it? Better options in the $5,000 price range? I suppose the Sawstop and the Minimax SC2 are probably the other contenders.

I'm tracking that used is always an option, just tough to count on, and harder to predict.

Any advice is appreciated.

[Stewart Lang]

I had a Grizzly G0623x and I absolutely loved it. Solid, easy to use, accurate. Never had any issues. I'd easily put it in the same category as Hammer/Minimax personally. About $1k less expensive. I wrote a review on here too somewhere..

[Jim Becker]

I think that Steve Wurster has that version, if I'm not mistaken. It's a nice machine from my observation. And yes, the SC-2 would be a comparable machine on the SCM side. I think these short stroke sliders are great...and can't wait to get a slider back in my shop. I'm currently using a SS PCS in my temporary shop and it's a fine tool, but I really, really, REALLY hate being back in the "line of fire" while cutting and dearly miss the true slider format. If a K3 or SC2 showed up on my doorstep, they wouldn't be refused, although I'd have to figure out how to rearrange things! (when I get a new shop building up, I'll "fix" things. :) )

[Jacob Mac]

I had a Grizzly G0623x and I absolutely loved it. Solid, easy to use, accurate. Never had any issues. I'd easily put it in the same category as Hammer/Minimax personally. About $1k less expensive. I wrote a review on here too somewhere..

Ya, that's $4,800 plus a couple hundred for shipping. So it is fairly comparable price wise. Do you still have it?

[Lisa Starr]

I just purchased the SC2C as it was more available than the Hammer. I have a Hammer A3-31 and the fit and finish are comparable between the two machines. I've only started using the machine, but I love it already. I'm still learning how to approach some cuts, the squareness and accuracy is a huge step up from my big traditional table saw.

[Stewart Lang]

Ya, that's $4,800 plus a couple hundred for shipping. So it is fairly comparable price wise. Do you still have it?

Oh yikes! It was $3750 when I bought it a few years ago. I upgraded to an older full size Paoloni. I still miss that Grizzly, I was very happy with it. Felt just as solid as the Paoloni honestly. It's a shame people judge it by the name, because it's really a fantastic saw.

[Derek Cohen]

I'm kicking around getting the Hammer K3 Winner 48x48 sliding table saw. Does anyone have one? Experience with it? Better options in the $5,000 price range? I suppose the Sawstop and the Minimax SC2 are probably the other contenders.

I'm tracking that used is always an option, just tough to count on, and harder to predict.

Any advice is appreciated.

Hi Jacob

I have the 48 x 31” …. actually, the slider is technically 52” … These are short stroke sliders.

It really comes down to what you build and the material you use. I work with solid woods and no sheet goods, so this size works very well for me. The 48 x 48 will open up more options, if you need this, at the expense of a larger footprint.

My original short list was the K3 and the SawStop. After having them alongside one another, it was apparent that there was nothing in the fit and finish to separate them. Both are built like a tank. However, the K3 won out as it is a different type of machine, and a slider offers so much greater opportunities than a traditional table saw (and the sliding crosscut table option with the SS is not the same thing, and not remotely in the same ball game).

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jacob Mac]

I just purchased the SC2C as it was more available than the Hammer. I have a Hammer A3-31 and the fit and finish are comparable between the two machines. I've only started using the machine, but I love it already. I'm still learning how to approach some cuts, the squareness and accuracy is a huge step up from my big traditional table saw.

Was availability the big factor for you, or were there other factors?

[Steve Wurster]

I think that Steve Wurster has that version, if I'm not mistaken.

I have the 79x48 version, so the sliding table on mine is a little over 2 feet longer than the 48x48 (which according to Derek actually has a 52" table). Mine also came with the outrigger and scoring blade, so I think they market that as the K3 Winner.

I love my saw, and I'm glad I went with the 79" table even though it's a slightly tight fit in my small basement shop. Allows me to more easily rip longer pieces.

The fit-and-finish of the saw is fantastic, and I never really considered getting any of the Grizzly offerings or even a SawStop. I knew I wanted a slider, and already being the owner of a Hammer A3-31 J/P meant I was leaning toward Hammer from the start.

[Jacob Mac]

I have the 79x48 version, so the sliding table on mine is a little over 2 feet longer than the 48x48 (which according to Derek actually has a 52" table). Mine also came with the outrigger and scoring blade, so I think they market that as the K3 Winner.

I love my saw, and I'm glad I went with the 79" table even though it's a slightly tight fit in my small basement shop. Allows me to more easily rip longer pieces.

The fit-and-finish of the saw is fantastic, and I never really considered getting any of the Grizzly offerings or even a SawStop. I knew I wanted a slider, and already being the owner of a Hammer A3-31 J/P meant I was leaning toward Hammer from the start.

Steve

Are you happy you got the longer stroke for straight line ripping?

I guess I could always get a 79x48 and just not use the extra length unless I was willing to move stuff around.

Is the length the only difference between the 48 and 79 or are there more differences?

[Jacques Gagnon]

Jacob

Not sure which stage you are at in the purchasing process. I ordered both a Hammer B3 and A3-31 in mid January. The machines will likely be delivered by the end of September (or possibly earlier).

One thing I found out when I finalized the purchase is that the Winner Comfort package was less expensive with the 79 x 48 configuration (that I bought) than the 79 x 32.

Regards,

Jacques

[Steve Wurster]

Steve

Are you happy you got the longer stroke for straight line ripping?

I guess I could always get a 79x48 and just not use the extra length unless I was willing to move stuff around.

Is the length the only difference between the 48 and 79 or are there more differences?

I am happier with the longer stroke, yes. I've definitely ripped pieces longer than 48" using just the sliding table (e.g. my 60" long workbench top), and those would have to be done differently on the 48" table. The longer table means I can also leave my Fritz and Franz jig setup on the rear end of the table while the short crosscut fence is setup on the front end, and be able to switch back and forth between the two while cutting pieces.

Regarding the extra length, the size and layout of my shop means that if the table is pulled all the way toward the front then I can barely walk around it (due to HVAC equipment). As for the space behind the saw, my assembly table is frequently in that area, so I have to move it out of the way when making cuts that require pushing the sliding table most of the way toward the rear. But I'm used to it at this point, and it doesn't bother me.

One thing to note: With the longer table, you have to move that much more table out of the way when changing blades. That's not really a big deal of course, but just something I thought of right now.

As for the difference between the models, I *think* the 79" models come with the outrigger by default (and possibly the scoring blade), while with the 49" models that might only be an add-on. In fact, I remember that when I bought mine it was during a sale, and it was actually cheaper to buy the 79" than it was to buy the 49" and the outrigger together. I had Jim Becker come by my shop at that time to confirm my suspicions that a 79" would fit without an issue, so his opinion and the cheaper price sold the deal for me on the 79".

I'm sure that if I had bought the 49" model then I would still love the heck out of the saw. It's a fantastic piece of machinery, and so much more versatile than a cabinet or contractor saw (I had a Ridgid contractor model previously). But I have always heard people say they regret not getting the longer table when they know they can fit it into their shop, so I'm glad I went with the 79" model.

There are drawings out there that indicate how much room the saws will require, so those can help you determine if you can indeed fit the 79" model into your shop.

[Lisa Starr]

Jacob,

The two machines are very similar from what I saw in the literature and quotes. The deciding factors for me were availability of the machine and being able to purchase thru a dealer. I purchased thru AW Machinery in Ohio and they were easy to work with and very responsive both before and after the sale.

[Jim Becker]

I think that Steve's setup is nearly ideal for anyone wanting a short stroke. While at first the outrigger might seem like something extraneous since a short stroke slider is more optimized for cross cutting, when crosscutting panels, having that extra support is a nice thing over just a miter bar. So if you can handle that the extra space for the stroke, even if it means a little inconvenience like Steve spoke about, go for it. I'm moving to a short stroke slider for the new shop whenever it gets built and it will be similar in capacity to Steve's, although my target is most likely an SCM SC-3.

[Erik Loza]

...I *think* the 79" models come with the outrigger by default (and possibly the scoring blade), while with the 49" models that might only be an add-on. In fact, I remember that when I bought mine it was during a sale, and it was actually cheaper to buy the 79" than it was to buy the 49" and the outrigger together...

Yes, that is the "Comfort" option package: 79" sliding table, outrigger with Precision Indexing Mitre Bar (steel plate that has pre-drilled holes at all the common mitre angles), and scoring unit. Just like auto manufacturers, Felder offers certain option packages on this or that machine and sometimes there is a more aggressive factory discount on these packages.

Erik

[Rod Sheridan]

I have the B3 with the 48” crosscut capacity and the 32” rip capacity.

Mine has the outrigger with precision mitre indexing, dado capability, scoring saw and stock feeder, I also have the micro adjust on the rip fence.

You can custom order whatever suits you best, which is what I did…..Rod

[Steve Wurster]

I have the B3 with the 48” crosscut capacity and the 32” rip capacity.

Mine has the outrigger with precision mitre indexing, dado capability, scoring saw and stock feeder, I also have the micro adjust on the rip fence.

You can custom order whatever suits you best, which is what I did…..Rod

Ah, right, I forgot I have the micro adjust on the rip fence. However I didn't order it that way from the factory, as that would have slowed down the delivery process at that time. Instead, the techs in the nearest Felder office to me (i.e. Delaware) had the parts on hand and installed that for me after the unit arrived in their warehouse. I had to pay a labor charge for that, but figured that was easier than me trying to install it myself.

[Jim Becker]

Yes, that is the "Comfort" option package: 79" sliding table, outrigger with Precision Indexing Mitre Bar (steel plate that has pre-drilled holes at all the common mitre angles), and scoring unit. Just like auto manufacturers, Felder offers certain option packages on this or that machine and sometimes there is a more aggressive factory discount on these packages.

Erik

The bundles are a good way to go for both Felder/Hammer and SCM, IMHO, as they are definitely more cost effective than acquiring "the stuff" a la carté. I know it's the only way I'd approach a purchase like this.

[Jacob Mac]

What's a good package? Must haves for a Hammer slider?

[Jesse Brown]

What's a good package? Must haves for a Hammer slider?

All personal opinion:

Couldn't live without: outrigger, fritz & franz, work hold-downs, outfeed support, extra crosscut stop, mobility kit
Nice to have, but not necessary: scoring blade, zero-clearance inserts, extra slider support
Bought it, never used it: edging shoe, offcut deflector thingy

Also, a long straightedge, feeler gauges, a dial indicator, and a big square are useful for setting everything up.

ETA thought of something else: I personally don't need the 48" rip fence capacity. I don't mind that I got it, but it's not necessary for the things I do.

[Patrick Kane]

I skimmed through the other responses--which have a lot more knowledge on the Hammer line and SCM equivalents--but i have a 79" Felder KF700, and id say its not the ideal saw for a one saw shop. The sliding support carriage needs to be longer to properly support the longer sliding table. An unfortunate side effect of this is you have a hunk of metal right in your crotch where you want to stand to conventionally rip material using the rip fence. No big deal, you will just rip off the sliding table, right? Sure, but 79" isnt that long to accommodate all your ripping needs. Conversely, its unusual that i crosscut anything wider than 48". This is where i think the 48" might have an advantage as a jack-of-all-trades, but it doesnt look like the outrigger and big boy crosscut fence come on the 48" version. I really like my Felder, and i think its a fantastic machine, but it annoyed me enough to go out and buy an Oliver 232 purely for ripping boards. My first few projects with the Felder blew my mind. I had the jessem sliding table before and an MFT, but the slider destroys both in capability and ease of use. I think ive had this 2004-2005 machine since 2016, and it still makes me happy when i use it. I really cant level any serious complaints or critiques against it--other than the sliding table isnt longer. However, maybe that is because i havent used either of the two vintage Martins in my garage yet.

[Jim Becker]

Patrick, I had that big structure on the S315WS I had in the old shop. I learned to rip "conventionally" quite effectively without having to stand behind the machine/material. Honestly, I'm nearly "shivering" being in the "line of fire" with the PCS I have in my temporary shop. I actually hate the conventional position for ripping after adjusting things for the slider over all those years and never being in the direct path of kickbacks.

[Patrick Kane]

In my experience with more powerful saws and kickbacks, it helps to be in a position of strength with the saw and the material. First, always have a splitter riving knife. On these euro machines, i cant see why you would ever remove the riving knife on a through cut. They are well designed and never in the way. Ok, with that out of the way kickbacks can still happen on rip cuts even with a riving knife. However, with a powerful saw(5hp+), as long as you dont let the material fly up on you, you can use the power of the saw to get through the tension that is clamping down on the back of the blade. Weaker saws are almost more dangerous in this instance, because they will stall or not get through the cut and therefore lift the material up more. I havent had a bad kickback on my felder, but the fact is you just have less control/power on the work piece standing on the operator side of a slider. I also hate the fact that im reaching over the blade to finish the rip cut. In my case, im reaching over the optional blade guard, which is huge. It covers maybe 4-5" to the right of the blade, and often rips are in that range requiring a pool cue motion with a push stick under the guard. After i sold my Powermatic 72 and before the Oliver 232, i found myself standing to the right of the Felder's rip fence. Its fine, its safe, but its awkward for a righty to be there. I may be in the wrong here, and im not professionally trained, but i stand about 8-10" to the left of the blade when ripping at a cabinet saw. As Jim mentions, this keeps your body out of 'the line of fire', but is a very natural and comfortable position of strength for a right-handed person to feed material through the sawblade while referencing the rip fence. I guess all i can say is this must be a personal preference thing, because its been discussed many times on this forum. Some guys have no issues using a saw that way, and some(me) hate it. Finally, you need to remove the crosscut fence/outrigger for longer rips. My saw is older and the design might have changed, but i end up pulling the entire outrigger and fence so that it doesnt mess up my fence's scale calibration. Its not the end of the world, but you are yanking a 75-90lb assembly to make a longer rip cut, and then putting it back on.

I dont want to dissuade you from the machine at all, they are great, but thats my take on a 79" machine. It is kind of no-man's land for practical woodworking applications. Look at all the old cast iron sliders. With very very few exceptions, they had a sliding table capacity of 32-40". You dont need anything greater for solid wood furniture making. On the other hand, 79" isnt enough capacity for contemporary sheet good processing. I can only assume it is hyper specific for shops sometimes using 5'x5' ply and not 5x10 or 4x8 sheets.

[Erik Loza]

This is an interesting part of the conversation. I was actually just in a shop yesterday, who is looking at a new slider for sheet goods. They also rip poplar for their face frame stock and asked how to do this on a slider. The conclusion we came to, based on their needs, was that it still made sense for them to have the slider, but that they also probably needed a separate SLR. It's really a matter of your personal workflow and expectations.

Erik

[David Stone (CT)]

It's interesting to read how people prioritize differently, based on what they do, space available, etc. My $0.02: I have a K3 with a 79 inch slider and an outrigger and think this is the optimal configuration for me as a hobbyist who often uses the saw to make stuff in connection with repairing my 175-year old house (=somewhat larger scale), as well as furniture and cabinetry and has a modest shop space. People tend to focus on slider length as being about the ability to maximize crosscut, especially a 4 foot panel of sheet goods, or, sometimes, do a long rip using the table instead of the rip fence. Obviously those are totally legit ways to look at it but, to me, mostly irrelevant. I don't have the shop space to readily manhandle a full sheet of ply onto my saw for crosscutting even though the saw specs would allow for it. And a table with enough stroke for ripping at significant lengths using F&F fixtures, parallel fences, pneumatic hold downs or whatever, is a totally different price point, build strength and space factor than a K3 or its competitors. That said, the advantages of the 79 inch table over the 48 inch for me are: (1) being able to use the table for long taper cuts or angle cuts on plywood parts (like kitchen cabinet corner units), functions that really eat up stroke; and (2) how, in ripping mode, the extra length functions as an outfield table, which is super handy since a fixed outfield table is not possible to the left of the blade, unlike a cabinet saw. Additionally, at least on my saw, the fixed portion of the sliding table only projects out from the front by about ten inches, so at 79 inches it is, in fact, still practical to stand in a comfortable position just to the left of the blade while using the rip fence, a big plus over longer tables, IMO.

[Warren Lake]

Riving knife is a good thing though never had one till now. Dont know where your kick backs are coming from. The entry level slider I have only has a small amount of bar extending forward so you can stand pretty much where you want. I think the maximum cross cut is 54 " The big sliders, anyone ive seen on them can look pretty uncomfortable trying to rip with the fence or even taking off cuts off the saw. When I get a full sized slider ill keep this smaller one as you can rip like on a cabinet saw only the saw is levels above those quality, power and feature wise.

[Jim Becker]

Warren, interestingly, I became quite comfortable ripping with the fence when necessary, despite standing in a different position. And now I'm uber-uncomfortable ripping on the cabinet saw I have in my temporary shop. Different strokes, pardon the expression. :) :D

[Warren Lake]

Ive seen lots of you tubes and you are doing yoga to rip conventional on a big slider. Stretched out and twisted. Then huge over the blade stuff in the way.

Im used to nothing above the table other than a blade granted that is not ideal. Now the addition of a riving knife is a novelty. I sort of feel like im cheating but its a good thing. Jim you get used to what you have, I had cabinet saws the old guys had cabinet saws in their at home shops and at work they had everything. This is slow, uncomfortable and clunky compared to ripping that on a cabinet saw.

Slow to get your offcut.

464388464391

[Christopher Charles]

That looks like a good time to be left handed.... (with a good feather board).

[Jim Becker]

Yes, doing "big rips" would certainly be less comfortable. But honestly, the only ripping I was doing using the fence was narrow stuff and not typically with any length. Bigger and wider was done on the wagon for both straight line and for parallel ripping using my buddies Fritz and Franz. :). Now with a short stroke slider, there would be more "conventional" ripping, but the structure of a short stroke machine has less (or something nothing) in the way so it can be handled the same way as with a cabinet saw.

[Erik Loza]

Like Jim, I never found it weird to rip on a slider. There were always Board Buddies or Grippers in the shop and any super-narrow strips could be done on the bandsaw. The F&F jig sprung up while I was on hiatus from the biz but if it had been around earlier, I would have been all about it. "Yes" a little less convenient on a long-stroke machine but having used sliders for so many years now, I wonder why anyone would voluntarily choose to stand behind the blade. To me, it's walking behind a horse that doesn't know you're there.

Erik

[Patrick Kane]

This discussion always surprises me, because i cant see two sides here. Everyone take a look at Warren's photos and ask yourself, "does this look comfortable or natural?". Now, imagine instead of a 12"x12" square of melamine, it's a 8' piece of 8/4 hardwood.

[Warren Lake]

Not sure what you mean Patrick. Anyway more important my last email was removed cause I stated the facts.

[Erik Loza]

...Now, imagine instead of a 12"x12" square of melamine, it's a 8' piece of 8/4 hardwood.

You're right, Patrick: A slider "will" do that but if there was lots of that type of work, a regular cabinet saw or bandsaw (home shop) or SLR would be a better choice. But I think most folks here are looking at it from a hobbyist's perspective, so there is always some compromise. Like garage shops that have a short-stroke slider but still do full-sized sheets once in a while. Sure, it would be great to have a panel-length slider, but? Some of my pro guys merge their sliders to standard cabinet saws, like so:

Erik

[Jacob Mac]

Jim, when you get a slider for your new shop, are you going 79 or longer?

Practically speaking, I’m going to spend the next couple years finishing a G&G bedroom, then a G&G dining room, and finally a study. Throw in my typical Maloof rocker for a present and that’s my next several serious projects. 79 would probably work, just don’t have a great feel for what working on it would be like.

[Jim Becker]

Jim, when you get a slider for your new shop, are you going 79 or longer?

Right now the plan would be for a short stroke about that size (SC-3C). I don't tend to rip really long stuff as I break boards down before milling them flat prior to ripping. It's unlikely I'd be ripping sheet goods on the saw, either...I mostly cut that on my CNC and if I have a need to do an 8 footer, I have long track for my tracksaw. So if I can cover 90+% of what I do with the shorter stroke machine, that's how I'll go for both space and cost reasons. My previous saw did have an 8'6" wagon. I just don't think I can justify the extra expense for a very small percentage of the work. Time till tell.

[Jacob Mac]

I'm going to get the 79x48. Just waiting to hear from the salesperson.

Before I do, anything else I should be thinking about as far as accessories, space in the shop, etc? Something everyone who has a slider knows about but someone new to the slider might not be considering?

How good is Hammer's mobility kit for the saw?

[Steve Wurster]

I'm going to get the 79x48. Just waiting to hear from the salesperson.

Before I do, anything else I should be thinking about as far as accessories, space in the shop, etc? Something everyone who has a slider knows about but someone new to the slider might not be considering?

How good is Hammer's mobility kit for the saw?

I'm going to assume that model comes with the outrigger (mine did), which is a good accessory if you ever plan on crosscutting wide pieces (especially plywood). The small triangular-shaped extension table is also a good accessory; I leave that one mounted permanently right where the smaller miter gauge goes. Another nice to have is one of the extensions that is typically used on the A3 units; I have one of these mounted on the back of the saw right next to the sliding table, as it provides a little bit of outfeed support for offcuts.

I have the mobility kit on my saw, but really only used it to place the saw in my shop. Depending on how much you will need to move your saw and in which directions, their mobility kit may or may not work well for you.

Congrats on the purchase / choice, and hopefully it doesn't take you too long to get it.

[Steve Fish]

Congrats on your new saw Jacob!
I have a question. These machines are completely foreign to me so I was wondering if a power feeder could be added to one of the longer stroke machines to help with the longer rip issue. I have no experience so I’m not sure if that would be possible or helpful. If it were a saw/shaper combo could the feeder be used to serve both functions?

[Steve Wurster]

Congrats on your new saw Jacob!
I have a question. These machines are completely foreign to me so I was wondering if a power feeder could be added to one of the longer stroke machines to help with the longer rip issue. I have no experience so I’m not sure if that would be possible or helpful. If it were a saw/shaper combo could the feeder be used to serve both functions?

A feeder can indeed be added to the rear of a K3. I don't have a feeder myself, but I'm pretty sure other K3 owners on here have shown pics of their feeder setups.

[Jacob Mac]

I've seen feeders attached, but I know less about the saw than you probably do. The saw won't be here until March, so I'm going to try and learn all I can in the interim.

First thing will be figuring out a mobile base. The Hammer one looks kind of clunky and not useful for small spaces.

[Jacques Gagnon]

I've seen feeders attached, but I know less about the saw than you probably do. The saw won't be here until March, so I'm going to try and learn all I can in the interim.

First thing will be figuring out a mobile base. The Hammer one looks kind of clunky and not useful for small spaces.


Jacob,

Here is input from somebody who just received a Hammer B3 last Thursday :D (ordered in late January). As somebody else said, this is free advice and worth every penny!


I have ordered the mobility kit for both machines (I also received an A3-31) and have already moved both machines multiple times (still re-arranging the shop). I can attest that the system works well.

As for the feeder question, I have ordered the mounting bracket and installed a Comatic DC-40 on the machine. I even tried moving the machine with the feeder mounted on it; no problem. Obviously, one has to account for the volume taken by the stand and feeder setup - things get a bit busy at that end ;).

I am looking forward to spend some time with the machines and learn. Hours of fun in perspective.

Regards,

Jacques

[Mike Stelts]

I'd recommend a narrow pallet jack, rather than the mobility kit, guessing the price might be a wash, especially if you find one used. It works well on my B3 (and can also move pallets!).

[Patrick Kane]

I'd recommend a narrow pallet jack, rather than the mobility kit, guessing the price might be a wash, especially if you find one used. It works well on my B3 (and can also move pallets!).

I have the same opinion, but looking at his machine, i dont think it accommodates a pallet jack. I have a narrow pallet jack for my KF700 and it works wonderfully. It also lets me move any other machine in my shop(everything is on 3.5" cribbing).

[Steve Wurster]

I have the same opinion, but looking at his machine, i dont think it accommodates a pallet jack. I have a narrow pallet jack for my KF700 and it works wonderfully. It also lets me move any other machine in my shop(everything is on 3.5" cribbing).

The K3 definitely takes a narrow pallet jack; we used one to move mine into my shop.

[Patrick Kane]

The K3 definitely takes a narrow pallet jack; we used one to move mine into my shop.

I dont doubt you, but looking at the site, i dont see how that works. Compare that to the K4, which has a notch similar to my KF700. I have seen older K3s that had the notch, but maybe they changed the cabinet design recently?

[Steve Wurster]

I dont doubt you, but looking at the site, i dont see how that works. Compare that to the K4, which has a notch similar to my KF700. I have seen older K3s that had the notch, but maybe they changed the cabinet design recently?

Whoa, they must have changed that design. My K3 has the notch on the front (so under the switch and blade height adjustment wheel), and a narrow pallet jack fits right in there. How the heck are you expected to move a K3 during installation if it doesn't have that notch? Maybe they expect you to get their mobility kit or install it on a 3rd party system, or simply never move it after the fact. Or there's some other mechanism for moving it that is not obvious from that picture.

[Mike Stelts]

Sorry, I didn't realize the K3 and B3 chassis design had changed. It looks like the mobility kit is now the only option. Good to know...

[Jacques Gagnon]

I dont doubt you, but looking at the site, i dont see how that works. Compare that to the K4, which has a notch similar to my KF700. I have seen older K3s that had the notch, but maybe they changed the cabinet design recently?

…a bit of a mystery here…

the B3 that arrived last week still has the opening underneath that allows the use of the narrow pallet jack. Old picture? Base model different than the other machines? New configuration for machine to come? So many questions and so little answers 😎.

[Robyn Horton]

The Left image of the K3 Winner Comfort above in Patrick's post got me to look at the K3 on the Felder Canada web site and it is the same new flat style on the bottom but it also has an On/off switch on the Left corner of the saw and not on the Big plate on the right of the Blade adjustment handle.

[Steve Wurster]

The Left image of the K3 Winner Comfort above in Patrick's post got me to look at the K3 on the Felder Canada web site and it is the same new flat style on the bottom but it also has an On/off switch on the Left corner of the saw and not on the Big plate on the right of the Blade adjustment handle.

That switch placement might be a Canada / non-US thing, but I'm not sure. I've noticed that on other K3-based posts I've seen here and elsewhere. My saw actually has a cut-out type setup in that spot, meaning in theory I could knock that out and attempt to move the switch to that location.

I still have no idea what's going on with the flat / non-flat bottom though.

[Jacques Gagnon]

…the mystery thickens :)…

Following Robyn’s post I checked The Felder Canada site as well to compare the photo for the B3. Flat bottom as well. However the emergency stop found on mine does not appear on the web site photo.

[Howard Dean]

Hi Steve. What size shop do you have? I’m on the fence (no pun intended) between a 48x48 and a 79x48. My shop will be about 26x22. I currently do not have a shop (building a house that will have a shop). All of my tools are mobile — portable mft, track saws, routers, etc. I can use my track saws to break down sheet goods and to edge joint boards. I’ll probably built a large mft/router table once the shop is ready to have a second cutting station (my wife will also use the shop) and assembly table. So the question is Do I need a 79x48? I lean towards the larger stroke because it’s not that much more expensive than the 48x48 and will fit in my shop, albeit tightly. I would be interested in hearing your thought process. Also, I’m curious about how one goes about using the rip fence when the slider is slightly elevated from the table. I’ve seen at least one person lower the slider to be even with the table. The sales rep swears that the slight elevation of the slider does not impact squareness if the cut, which is counter-intuitive. I would be grateful for your views on this too.

Thanks,

Howard

[Jacques Gagnon]

Hello Howard,

Having recently acquired a machine with the same footprint (except it is a saw/spindle model) I went through the same analysis. My shop is 14x20 (I am a hobbyist) and my machines can be moved as required. Depending on the type of work you do, the 48 inch (1300mm) ripping width may not be often used. I nevertheless chose to go that route and do not regret it.

The elevated carriage (compared to the main cast iron surface) has been discussed a lot on this forum. The concern expressed about the possible effects of the height differential is in part resulting from looking at a slider and thinking along the lines of a cabinet saw. Most operations are carried out on the slider; the off cut falls to the right side of the blade.

If you absolutely need to work on the right side and are worried about the squareness of the edge, all you need to do is to cut your workpiece slightly wider than the desired finished measure (either with your track saw or on the carriage) and then rip on the right side of the blade. The off cut will be narrower than the space between the blade and carriage.

A comment you may receive is that the 78 inch (2000mm) carriage will not allow you ideal will long 8 foot panels, but you are already using a track saw.

Although I am still in the process of « unlearning », I really enjoy working with a slider. Easy, safe, efficient.

My 2 cents,

J.

[Steve Wurster]

Hi Steve. What size shop do you have? I’m on the fence (no pun intended) between a 48x48 and a 79x48. My shop will be about 26x22. I currently do not have a shop (building a house that will have a shop). All of my tools are mobile — portable mft, track saws, routers, etc. I can use my track saws to break down sheet goods and to edge joint boards. I’ll probably built a large mft/router table once the shop is ready to have a second cutting station (my wife will also use the shop) and assembly table. So the question is Do I need a 79x48? I lean towards the larger stroke because it’s not that much more expensive than the 48x48 and will fit in my shop, albeit tightly. I would be interested in hearing your thought process. Also, I’m curious about how one goes about using the rip fence when the slider is slightly elevated from the table. I’ve seen at least one person lower the slider to be even with the table. The sales rep swears that the slight elevation of the slider does not impact squareness if the cut, which is counter-intuitive. I would be grateful for your views on this too.

Thanks,

Howard

Howard,

The working area of my shop is about 16x24. Nearly all of the "big" tools are mobile, however I never move my K3, my floor-standing drill press, or my workbench. Due to space constraints pretty much everything stays against the walls and I have to move them into the "middle" in order to use them. This includes my router table, bandsaw, jointer/planer, drum sander, and spindle sander (on a cart). I have a separate cart on which I do most of my assembly and that pretty much just lives in the middle area. I frequently have to move it out of the way in order to use one of the mobile tools, or to avoid hitting it with the sliding table.

I have my K3 arranged so that the space to the right of it is just big enough to house my DC (wall mounted Oneida V-3000). That gives me plenty of room to the left of the blade, even with tools lined up against that left wall, so there are no issues there. If I pull the 79" sliding table all the way to the front then there is enough room for me to walk around the front of it, although it's a little tight because I have a big off-cut trash can and shop vac on the floor in that area. Because you have to put the table into this position to change the blade I have all of my blades (and most saw accessories) on the left wall for easy access (i.e., they are behind me when I'm changing blades). If I push the table all the way to the back then there is plenty of room for me to walk around the far end of it, although it's not a huge amount. I originally thought only the 48x48 would work in this shop, but I'm really glad I got the 79x48 instead.

As for the table being higher than the cast iron, I'm fine with that. As Jacques just recently posted, if it really bothers you then you can always make your first cut with the rip fence wider and then follow that up with a perfect 90 degree skim cut.

[Howard Dean]

Many thanks gentlemen. All very useful comments. Much appreciated. I stumbled upon the Hammer K3 in a post on this site, which has sucked me down another woodworking rabbit hole. I must say that in all my research I’ve only seen a few negative comments. The sales rep is preparing a couple of quotes for me — one for the 48x48 and one for the 79x48. One of my initial concerns was the quality of the rip fence. The sales rep said that there have been so many complaints by US customers that the cast iron professional fence is now standard on the K3 (albeit at a cost). If I do pull the trigger I’ll need to figure out how I’ll move it down a hill and into my shop. At over 600 pounds it won’t be easy. Had a serious accident some years back trying to move something down a hill by myself. Was over confident. Think I’ll hire someone ….

[Jacques Gagnon]

…clarification following Steve’s input. Although I can move my machine if required, my layout allows me to keep it on the same spot most of the time.

[Chris Parks]

If building a new shop I would try to arrange the floor level to be raised enough to run the dust extraction for the K3 under the floor. I put a debris trap directly onto the machine port to trap the small bits that get sucked in and the extraction goes through the floor of the trap into the under floor extraction pipe. I have no other under floor extraction, just the K3.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Steve. What size shop do you have? I’m on the fence (no pun intended) between a 48x48 and a 79x48. My shop will be about 26x22. I currently do not have a shop (building a house that will have a shop). All of my tools are mobile — portable mft, track saws, routers, etc. I can use my track saws to break down sheet goods and to edge joint boards. I’ll probably built a large mft/router table once the shop is ready to have a second cutting station (my wife will also use the shop) and assembly table. So the question is Do I need a 79x48? I lean towards the larger stroke because it’s not that much more expensive than the 48x48 and will fit in my shop, albeit tightly. I would be interested in hearing your thought process. Also, I’m curious about how one goes about using the rip fence when the slider is slightly elevated from the table. I’ve seen at least one person lower the slider to be even with the table. The sales rep swears that the slight elevation of the slider does not impact squareness if the cut, which is counter-intuitive. I would be grateful for your views on this too.

Thanks,

Howard

Howard, I have a 48x31 Hammer K3. I do not cut sheet goods on it, working almost exclusively building furniture in hard woods. Like you, any ply would be cut down with a circular saw, if needed.

For my work, a 48x31 is perfect. Anyway it has to be as I lack space (half a double garage) for a longer slider. I do not need a wider outfeed. This saves on the footprint as well.

Old photo (seen by many here) …

https://i.postimg.cc/XJTP8ySS/1.jpg

Save more space by building a router table into the outfeed ..

https://i.postimg.cc/y6FXwqhW/RTF1a.jpg

When I first got the K3, I also obsessed about the 0.5mm extra height of the wagon. Gradually I learned to ignore it, especially finding that, in practice, it made no difference to squareness. Do the cut, then use your best square to find the light. I do not see it.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Howard Dean]

Thanks Derek. Since you also work mostly in hardwoods, I’d be interested to know which saw blades you purchased with the the saw, or after the saw from an after-market dealer. Also, I like the idea of building a router table onto the outfeed. What did you use for the build, if I may ask?

[Rod Sheridan]

A feeder can indeed be added to the rear of a K3. I don't have a feeder myself, but I'm pretty sure other K3 owners on here have shown pics of their feeder setups.

I have a B3, the feeder is flipped up on mine now as I’m ripping flooring…..Regards, Rod

[Derek Cohen]

Thanks Derek. Since you also work mostly in hardwoods, I’d be interested to know which saw blades you purchased with the the saw, or after the saw from an after-market dealer. Also, I like the idea of building a router table onto the outfeed. What did you use for the build, if I may ask?

Howard, while it is tempting (for those who can) to continue to use 10" saw blades, there is an advantage in using good quality 12" blades. These will cut at the correct speed and offer a significantly greater depth of cut.

I purchased two blades for the K3 from another company, and Felder threw in a third with the saw. The blade they provided a 48-tooth combination blade by Stark, an Italian manufacturer. The two blades I purchased were a 28-tooth rip and a 96-tooth crosscut, both by Leuco.

Of importance, the blades are all 3.2mm wide, which matches the standard riving knife. This also means that the ZCI I made works with all the blades.

The Stark is an incredible blade and mostly lives on the K3.

Link for ZCI: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Powered%20Tools%20and%20Machinery/HammerK3ZCI.html

There are articles on my website in regard to the K3 and other Hammer machines: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Powered%20Tools%20and%20Machinery/index.html

The router table build is here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Powered%20Tools%20and%20Machinery/RouterTableAdventure.html

.. and here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Powered%20Tools%20and%20Machinery/NoMitreGaugeTrack.html

The aim of the router table was to build something of quality without too much outlay. I use one infrequently. The essential parts are an Elu 177e router (I like Elu and have a bunch of them), an aluminium insert plate, a Router Raizer lift, and a MuscleChuck (https://www.musclechuck.com/shop/). There are plans for the fence, which I built from scratch. I would argue that this compares well with set ups in the range of 3 or 4 times as much.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Howard Dean]

Many thanks Derek. I really appreciate you (and others) taking the time to provide very useful information. I mainly work with thicker lumber and am looking forward to using the 12” blade. I’ve seen some amazing reviews regarding the PC Saw Blade Silent-Power Diamond 12 “ blade. Very pricey ($590 US) but produces (according the reviews) phenomenal cuts and is purportedly 50% quieter than other blades. The Felder website “guarantees” no kickback. I’ll ponder the information over the weekend. I have two quotes to think about (79x48 and 48x48). I’m now leaning towards the latter, for reasons I’ve stated earlier (mainly work in hardwood, can edge joint using a track saw, can use a track saw to break down sheet goods, smaller shop size, and fully anticipate using the saw as a regular cabinet saw with cross cut capacity). Above all else I’m looking forward to having a shop again! Hauling portable tools out on the roof deck is a pain, especially when it’s cold. Last weekend I had to clear about a foot of snow off the deck and wear heated gloves. But I think the experience has made me a better wood worker. I’ve been making things for as long as I can remember. Had to take a hiatus for a couple of years due to a serious health issue. Then the pandemic reared its ugly head. I used the opportunity to really study wood, woodworking, hand tool usage, etc. Before, I just made stuff without really understanding theory and fundamentals — but I somehow managed to do pretty well. Always trying to learn ….

[Jacob Mac]

Many thanks Derek. I really appreciate you (and others) taking the time to provide very useful information. I mainly work with thicker lumber and am looking forward to using the 12” blade. I’ve seen some amazing reviews regarding the PC Saw Blade Silent-Power Diamond 12 “ blade. Very pricey ($590 US) but produces (according the reviews) phenomenal cuts and is purportedly 50% quieter than other blades. The Felder website “guarantees” no kickback. I’ll ponder the information over the weekend. I have two quotes to think about (79x48 and 48x48). I’m now leaning towards the latter, for reasons I’ve stated earlier (mainly work in hardwood, can edge joint using a track saw, can use a track saw to break down sheet goods, smaller shop size, and fully anticipate using the saw as a regular cabinet saw with cross cut capacity). Above all else I’m looking forward to having a shop again! Hauling portable tools out on the roof deck is a pain, especially when it’s cold. Last weekend I had to clear about a foot of snow off the deck and wear heated gloves. But I think the experience has made me a better wood worker. I’ve been making things for as long as I can remember. Had to take a hiatus for a couple of years due to a serious health issue. Then the pandemic reared its ugly head. I used the opportunity to really study wood, woodworking, hand tool usage, etc. Before, I just made stuff without really understanding theory and fundamentals — but I somehow managed to do pretty well. Always trying to learn ….

Howard, I went through the same thought process before ordering mine. I went with the 79 because I thought with the projects I have in mind the longer stroke would be useful. Now I'm not so sure, but six month wait time is bound to cause some second guessing.

I can squeeze the 79 in, so even if it isn't useful, it will be just another in a long line of extravagant woodworking purchases. But I'm still reasonably confident it will be useful.

I'm also hopeful this will be a saw that lasts me into my 70s. Truth be told, the quality worries me more than the stroke. Hopefully I get a good one, and not one. There have been a lot of manufacturing issues, it seems like, since the pandemic began.

[Jim Becker]

Howard, while it is tempting (for those who can) to continue to use 10" saw blades, there is an advantage in using good quality 12" blades. These will cut at the correct speed and offer a significantly greater depth of cut.

I agree with this 100%. When I originally got my slider, I continued to use the same 10" blades I had been employing with the cabinet saw that preceded it. It worked fine it seemed. A few years later, I invested in essentially identical blades but in 12" format. There was a noticeable difference in cutting and yea, having that extra depth of cut came in handy once in awhile. While I had to sell the slider this past summer when I moved into a temporary shop space, I kept the blades and they will be once again used when I get a shop building up and a new slider in place.

[Rod Sheridan]

The issue with 12” blades is that the scoring saw blade must be removed.

I have one 12” 48 tooth ATB that I use for deep cuts in solid wood, the remainder are 10” FSTools blades, work great and allow me to keep the scoring blade mounted…..Regards, Rod.

[Jim Becker]

The issue with 12” blades is that the scoring saw blade must be removed.

Very true for some saws and has to be taken into consideration since one may or may not want to have both 10" and 12" blades.

[Chris Parks]

Many thanks Derek. I really appreciate you (and others) taking the time to provide very useful information. I mainly work with thicker lumber and am looking forward to using the 12” blade. I’ve seen some amazing reviews regarding the PC Saw Blade Silent-Power Diamond 12 “ blade. Very pricey ($590 US) but produces (according the reviews) phenomenal cuts and is purportedly 50% quieter than other blades. The Felder website “guarantees” no kickback. I’ll ponder the information over the weekend. I have two quotes to think about (79x48 and 48x48). I’m now leaning towards the latter, for reasons I’ve stated earlier (mainly work in hardwood, can edge joint using a track saw, can use a track saw to break down sheet goods, smaller shop size, and fully anticipate using the saw as a regular cabinet saw with cross cut capacity). Above all else I’m looking forward to having a shop again! Hauling portable tools out on the roof deck is a pain, especially when it’s cold. Last weekend I had to clear about a foot of snow off the deck and wear heated gloves. But I think the experience has made me a better wood worker. I’ve been making things for as long as I can remember. Had to take a hiatus for a couple of years due to a serious health issue. Then the pandemic reared its ugly head. I used the opportunity to really study wood, woodworking, hand tool usage, etc. Before, I just made stuff without really understanding theory and fundamentals — but I somehow managed to do pretty well. Always trying to learn ….

Every claim for the diamond blade is correct, mine lives on the saw permanently because changing it throws all the measuring tapes out of calibration and the riving knife has to be changed. What it won't do is bevelled cuts/mitre cuts as it flexes too much. I have a range of blades from different European respected brands and if they are kept sharp they all perform well. Derek's comment on the Stark blades reminds me of the blade I ordered for my small mitre saw and when it arrived I saw that it was a no name blade made in deepest China. I nearly threw it in the bin but gave it a go and it is the single best blade I have ever used after the diamond blade on the K3 so you can never tell.

The best thing you can do from the get go is don't use the right hand side of the blade for cutting, learn what the left hand side can do and you will be surprised at how little you use the right hand side. Another plus of the diamond blade is the no chip cut on laminates.

[Michael Drew]

I had not ever heard of diamond toothed blades for use on a table saw then stumbled onto this YouTube video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyDjod56UJg&t=469s

He does a great job reviewing the Felder blade. Almost convinced me to buy one.....

[Rod Sheridan]

I've seen feeders attached, but I know less about the saw than you probably do. The saw won't be here until March, so I'm going to try and learn all I can in the interim.

First thing will be figuring out a mobile base. The Hammer one looks kind of clunky and not useful for small spaces.

I really like the Hammer mobility kit, easy to use, stable, self locking.

I often use a feeder on the saw.

Regards, Rod

[Jacob Mac]

What are the essential tools to ensure I get my slider calibrated correctly?

My longest straight edge is 36. And I don't have a level that's any good. What should I be looking at to get this thing set up correctly?

[Chris Parks]

What are the essential tools to ensure I get my slider calibrated correctly?

My longest straight edge is 36. And I don't have a level that's any good. What should I be looking at to get this thing set up correctly?

Don't even think about touching it until you have proof something is wrong. When that time comes you will need several things, multiple dial indicators, some metric combination spanners and a few days to fix what you wish you hadn't touched. Been there and done that. What appears to be a simple adjustment mechanism is anything but as you try to work out how the six bolts actually achieve what you want.

[Jim Becker]

Don't even think about touching it until you have proof something is wrong.
^^ This...

[Howard Dean]

Many thanks to those who responded to my many queries regarding the Hammer K3 Winner. I went back and forth over the weekend on whether to purchase the 48x48 or the 79x48. Ultimately I chose the latter, for the following reasons: (a) the difference in price was "only" $1,000, and the 79x48 comes with a ton of extras; (b) there have been too many times when I opted for the lesser tool, only later to wish I had purchased the bigger, more powerful or more feature-packed tool; (c) my wife and son want to learn how to use a table saw and I would much rather that they work exclusively to the left of the blade (i.e., out of harm's way); and (d) I will have lots of cabinets to build for the new house. Total cost of package deal is about $3,000 less than purchasing each item separately (there will be a price increase March 1). This includes cost of delivery (about $450). No taxes. Very excited, but will have to wait until August -- which is fine because the house is still being built and I do not currently have a work shop.

Package
-Single Phase 230 Volt (+ - 10%) 60Hz 4Hp Motor.
-Rip capacity 49”
-78” sliding table
-Dado prep
-12” universal saw blade
-Scoring blade
-Professional rip fence with large round guiding bar
-Scoring unit
-Outrigger table
-Cross cut fence for outrigger table (51”)
-Cross cut fence for sliding table (35”)
-Miter index system
-Extension table

Accessories
-Mount rail
-Fine adjustment for rip fence
-Telescopic extension
-Quick connect reducer
-Lift bar
-Rolling carriage
-10” universal saw blade
-12” PCD silent power diamond blade

[Jim Becker]

Congrats on figuring out your configuration, Howard!

You bring up a good point about packaging. Both Hammer and SCM/Minimax seem to have a similar approach...opting for the "next better" configuration can net a whole bunch of desirable goodies/options that have to be ordered and paid for separately for the "lower" configuration and the net cost of opting for "next better" is often surprisingly minimal. My own consideration has been affected by this for a new slider once I have a building up. It's far better financially, IMHO, to "get the goodies" up front for only a small uplift in initial cost.

[Jacques Gagnon]

Nice package Howard. Grouping options into a package is very cost effective.


I am sure you will enjoy this machine, both in terms of performance and safety. Having both crosscut fences is useful, depending on the operation. One example is putting a board to be ripped between both fences, using the stops to set the width.
.
Any plans for clamping devices?

[Steve Wurster]

Great choice, Howard. I went with the 79 over the 48 for basically the same reason (and after Jim Becker assured me it would work just fine in my shop). You will absolutely love this saw.

[Rod Sheridan]

What are the essential tools to ensure I get my slider calibrated correctly?

My longest straight edge is 36. And I don't have a level that's any good. What should I be looking at to get this thing set up correctly?


Don’t touch anything unless the saw doesn’t work properly, and if it doesn’t contact Felder as the machine will be under warranty….Regards, Rod.

[Chris Parks]

Don’t touch anything unless the saw doesn’t work properly, and if it doesn’t contact Felder as the machine will be under warranty….Regards, Rod.

I am always astounded that new owners of European sliders seem to think the manufacturer sets up the saw wrongly and does not know anything. There is a classic example of this in a YT video where the owner blasts Felder because in his opinion the saw should resemble his old cabinet saw in all respects.

[Jacob Mac]

I am always astounded that new owners of European sliders seem to think the manufacturer sets up the saw wrongly and does not know anything. There is a classic example of this in a YT video where the owner blasts Felder because in his opinion the saw should resemble his old cabinet saw in all respects.

I've bought a J/P and a band saw new from Minimax. The band saw took over a month of tracking down electrical issues and waiting for parts to get it to start. The J/P's tables were quite out of coplanar.

I will be astounded if I receive a machine that is perfectly calibrated. But, hey, here's hoping

[Michael Drew]

I just watched a fella on YouTube go through calibrating his K3 Winner. It was not all that onerous a task. Pretty simple, really. I can find it again if you want.

[Jacob Mac]

The saw arrived a week ago, shipping was pretty uneventful. A couple of little dings, but no obvious damage upon inspection. It was well packaged. And they used screws to assemble the crate. Minimax used nails, which is a lot more aggravating.

But work is crazy right now, so it will probably be at least a month before I uncrate it and get everything set up.

Now I need to sell my table saw and miter saw

The sales staff was very laid back, almost to the point of disinterest. But once I did get an answer, I always received solid and helpful answers to my questions. And Ive never had a better experience coordinating shipping. They held on to the saw while my schedule cleared up. I enjoyed my interactions with them.

I think I waited about nine months from ordering to get my saw.

[Mike King]

This should be helpful.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/albums/72157711930240666/with/49315960242/

I'd suggest joining the Felder Owners Group.

[Jacob Mac]

Thanks Mike!

[Chris Parks]

I've bought a J/P and a band saw new from Minimax. The band saw took over a month of tracking down electrical issues and waiting for parts to get it to start. The J/P's tables were quite out of coplanar.

I will be astounded if I receive a machine that is perfectly calibrated. But, hey, here's hoping

Use the machine and don't touch anything and you might be surprised. Adjusting the table height is not just a simple exercise of screwing the height bolts up and down, the table in reality pivots around the opposite bolt and some strange things happen until you get your head around it all. Give it a go if you have a few days to spare in and infinite patience to go with it.

[Jacob Mac]

Does anyone have any experience or reviews using a Bora mobile base for this saw? Looking for a mobility solution, and not terribly interested in a pallet jack.

[Michael Drew]

Hi Jacob,

Did you get your saw put together yet? I got the same machine as you. It arrived last week. Took me half a day to just get the shipping crate disassembled, and move the saw from the pallet to the floor..... Spent the better part of the day yesterday, interpreting the installation and set up instructions. That, and making levelling feet. I live rural, and there are no good hardware stores near me, so I usually have to put on my MacGyver hat. I haven't finished yet, but am already thinking that on/off buttons on the slider would be handy. Once I figure out outfeed table needs, I will build an angle iron frame with casters and separate levelling feet. The saw will live on this frame. Will need to figure out how to lift it and get the frame under the saw.

[Kevin Wells]

I converted to not ripping this way. I use the cross-cut fence with a clamp on the trailing edge or use the fritz and Franz jig. I can’t remember the last time I ripped using the rip fence. I use it as an adjustable stop for cross-cutting short pieces being guided by the cross-cut fence.