Spray gun recommendation for WB finishes

[Dave Cav]

I am looking for a new (non turbine) gun for my WB finishes. Lately I have been using GF High Performance Topcoat, but I'm struggling with my existing guns. I initially started some time ago with the HF purple guns and have had reasonably good results with them, but they have their problems (difficult to clean, prone to rust, dated design, lack of spare parts). A couple of years ago I got a Fuji MPX-30 HVLP conversion gun but I have come to despise it. It's difficult to adjust and provides very inconsistent fan patterns, and I'm ready to throw it away. I have ordered a 3M Accuspray PPS setup which I'm looking forward to trying, but I'd also like another conventional gun. I would like to keep it in the $300 or so price range, and I'm looking for a gravity fed gun which could be converted to the PPS system in the future. Most of the medium to high end guns seem to be made for the automotive trade, so it's difficult to get any direct data on their performance with woodworking WB finishes.

[Warren Lake]

post in the finishing area. Ive only used Automotive stuff. Bought one Accuspray and had no use for it, regretted that purchased maybe better now I stick to car guns.

Learn what needle nozzle combos you need for your materials, speed of the finish according the manufacturer and your temps, make sure stainless if you are using water based.

[Mike Soaper]

You might want to check out Jeff Jewitt's Homestead finishes. I think most of his qualspray guns have stainless steel passages .

QualSpray HVLP Guns - Homestead Finishing Products (https://homesteadfinishingproducts.com/products-we-offer/hvlp-spray-equipment/qualspray-hvlp-guns/)

he also sells on ebay

[John TenEyck]

GF's High Performance needs about a 1.8 mm N/N to spray well with a gravity feed gun because the viscosity is pretty high. I think I even thinned it 5 - 6% when I spray it with my gravity gun. I use a Qualspray bottom feed gun now with a pressurized PPS cup (AM-6008) and it sprays a wide range of WB finishes really well, most w/o thinning. With 3 N/N sets included in the package it's a very versatile outfit. I'm not sure I'll ever go back to a gravity feed gun; I just don't see any benefit. But if you want one that can spray pretty much anything look at Qualspray's AM-5008/P at $325. Easily upgraded to PPS for $65.

John

[Warren Lake]

Pressure gravity were not too common when I was adding new guns, sata had one, I made my own. they are step up from just gravity until pressure pressure pots.

[Jeff Roltgen]

Repeating myself from a post in the finishing area last week, but if you're that close to $400, consider the Anest Iwata - can be had sans material cup on the net (think "A" ending with an "n") for just under $400.
You sound like me, regarding your steps, crawling towards the excalibur of spray guns. Again, I say, stop wasting time and money on that stuff, and get the LPH-400. I'm finally happy with WB finishes, and the range of functionality with that gun will knock your socks off. It's the "tulip pattern" that makes an actual difference from the other ones. Basically, the unusually grooved nozzle tip starts breaking up the finishing material as it is leaving the nozzle, not waiting to hit the air stream from cap and horns a fraction of an inch later to start doing so to a solid stream of fluid. Stream is already broken before it hits those traditional atomization air streams. Consider it "pre-atomization" and boy, does it work.

[Dan Friedrichs]

I'm FAR from a finishing expert, but after having the same experiences with the HF purple guns, I did a lot of reading and ended up with one of these:
https://www.astrotools.com/product/europro-forged-hvlp-spray-gun-with-1-5mm-nozzle-plastic-cup/

It's been great. I regularly spray waterborne finish with it, had no problems, easy clean up, doesn't take a large compressor, relatively inexpensive (~$100)...

[John TenEyck]

Dan, that Astro gun looks very much like a couple of gravity feed guns I have. They work very well, but the 1.5 mm N/N on the Astro will limit which finishes can be sprayed w/o thinning. The High Performance the OP mentioned definitely would require substantial thinning; on the other hand, Duralaq WB Acrylic would not.

John

[Dave Cav]

Thanks for the information and links. I ordered a 1.7 N/N assembly for my Fuji gun which should make it work a lot better with the GF WB. I'm expecting the 3M Accuspray setup today or tomorrow and will see how that works. If I need to go to another gun I'll look into the Homestead or Astro guns.

[Dave Cav]

A little more information- I looked up the technical data sheet for GF HP Topcoat and they suggested a 1.1 to 1.3mm nozzle size for that particular product. The Fuji gun I've been using has a 1.4" nozzle and needle, and as I mentioned in my original post, I've been unhappy with the gun's performance. Several people subsequently posted that I would need a N/N in the 1.7 to 1.8mm range, so I'm a little confused. The 3M Accuspray setup comes with tips from 1.2 to 2.0mm, so I guess I'll experiment with them and see what seems to work best.

[John TenEyck]

A little more information- I looked up the technical data sheet for GF HP Topcoat and they suggested a 1.1 to 1.3mm nozzle size for that particular product. The Fuji gun I've been using has a 1.4" nozzle and needle, and as I mentioned in my original post, I've been unhappy with the gun's performance. Several people subsequently posted that I would need a N/N in the 1.7 to 1.8mm range, so I'm a little confused. The 3M Accuspray setup comes with tips from 1.2 to 2.0mm, so I guess I'll experiment with them and see what seems to work best.

GF's recommendations are for a pressure assisted gun, even though they don't ever say so. As such, their recommendations should be good for anyone with a turbine unit, but not for a common conversion gun. With my pressure assisted Qualspray gun I spray HP with a 1.3 mm N/N set and it's perfect.

John

[Tom M King]

Here's some pretty thorough information on the latest model of the 3M Accuspray gun. They make a pressurized version of the first gun, and I would think they would of these, as well, but haven't looked for it. Notice it calls for 13cfm of air.

https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/collision-repair-us/featured-products/spray-gun/collision-spray-gun/?utm_term=sibg-aad-vm_usac-en_us-lead-ketchum_psg_2a-general-cpc-google-na-learn-na-apr21-na&gclid=CjwKCAjwybyJBhBwEiwAvz4G72DWNbe6akNCgFWqPsa7 Jpy_ROCa_W8hFjkVtpxtelxldfhxa2wQ1BoCp-gQAvD_BwE

[Jim Becker]

Here's some pretty thorough information on the latest model of the 3M Accuspray gun. They make a pressurized version of the first gun, and I would think they would of these, as well, but haven't looked for it. Notice it calls for 13cfm of air.

https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/collision-repair-us/featured-products/spray-gun/collision-spray-gun/?utm_term=sibg-aad-vm_usac-en_us-lead-ketchum_psg_2a-general-cpc-google-na-learn-na-apr21-na&gclid=CjwKCAjwybyJBhBwEiwAvz4G72DWNbe6akNCgFWqPsa7 Jpy_ROCa_W8hFjkVtpxtelxldfhxa2wQ1BoCp-gQAvD_BwE

That's a really interesting gun, Tom. I wonder if the replaceable nozzle/heads could actually be cleaned in some way so they are "less disposable" for folks who are not doing commercial work that can account for overhead. I like the idea of the lighter weight, too.

[Dave Cav]

I got the Accuspray gun a couple of days ago and have done some initial testing with it. It came with five different spray heads and a supply of cup liners and tops, and I got an additional supply of tops and liners. The gun is light and easy to use, and changing spray heads is easy. The disposable cups are also easy to fill and attach to the gun and I haven't seen any leaking. I used the same head several times; they are VERY easy to rinse out and clean. I think they will last a long time using a WB woodworking finish, but I can see how they would wear out eventually if using heavy primer, metallic paints or anything else with a high solids content, as they are 100% plastic. However, they are pretty cheap to replace. One downside is it does use a LOT of air and needs to be run with about 25 PSI at the gun, adjusted by the regulator on the gun when the trigger is pulled. I have an 80 gallon 5HP compressor so it shouldn't be a problem.

I also got the 1.7mm N/N set for my Fuji gun today, and will try to do some side by side comparisons.

Getting back to John's comments regarding pressure fed guns, I do have a pressure fed Wagner HVLP conversion setup I got from Gleem Paint a number of years ago. It seems to work fine but I don't like to use it for furniture. I find conventional guns with the 1 quart cup below the gun to be heavy and unwieldy when doing furniture, and it's a pain to clean compared to a gravity fed gun.

[John TenEyck]

Dave, a bottom feed gun with a PPS cup is no more difficult to clean than a gravity feed gun. It's a game changer. Interesting your comment about the bottom feed gun being unwieldy. That's exactly how I felt about a gravity feed gun, especially one w/o a pressurized cup. That's what led me to the Qualspray AM-6008 gun. Being able to spray at any angle, including upside down, eliminated all the issue I had with the gravity feed gun. Of course, a PPS cup on a gravity feed gun would eliminate the starved feed issue, and a pressurized cup would give it an application range as broad as the bottom fee option.

When I have clearance issues with the bottom cup gun I just turn it 90 degrees or even upside down if needed. It's really no different than how you would have to handle a top cup gun with a pressurized cup when there's a clearance issue.

John

[John TenEyck]

Here's some pretty thorough information on the latest model of the 3M Accuspray gun. They make a pressurized version of the first gun, and I would think they would of these, as well, but haven't looked for it. Notice it calls for 13cfm of air.

https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/collision-repair-us/featured-products/spray-gun/collision-spray-gun/?utm_term=sibg-aad-vm_usac-en_us-lead-ketchum_psg_2a-general-cpc-google-na-learn-na-apr21-na&gclid=CjwKCAjwybyJBhBwEiwAvz4G72DWNbe6akNCgFWqPsa7 Jpy_ROCa_W8hFjkVtpxtelxldfhxa2wQ1BoCp-gQAvD_BwE

I considered the 3M Accuspray gun before I bought the Qualspray. The deciding factor was the large air consumption of the Accuspray. If not for that I would have been all in. If they make one with low air consumption I'd still consider buying it for stuff I'd rather not be bothered with clean up, like BiN pigmented shellac primer.

John

[Dave Cav]

Yesterday and today I finally had a chance to try the Fjui and 3m guns together. I got a couple of roll ends of newsprint from the local printing plant and I clip a sheet of it to a of big piece of cardboard for a test surface. A couple of weeks ago I ordered a 1.7 N/N combination for the Fuji and now it sprays GF HP Topcoat a lot better. Much better defined fan pattern and adequate quantity of fluid, much more consistent coverage. A 1.8 would probably be better but the retailer I used only had the 1.7 kit. So the Fuji gun is back on the table. I'm going to get a PPS cup converter for it.

The 3M gun is pretty good for what it is, an all plastic gun. The fan pattern is fairly adjustable but as I mentioned earlier it uses a lot of air and I need to do some replumbing to remove my secondary regulator at the spray station to deliver an adequate amount of air. It puts out an even pattern and has a pretty well defined fan. Cleaning it is VERY easy, and the disposable lids and cups are also easy to clean, at least when using WB finishes, so I can recycle them. One thing I like about the PPS cup system is the strainer screen built into the lid; no messing around with separate paper and mesh strainers.

[John TenEyck]

It's good to have options Dave. Glad to hear the Fuji works better with the 1.7 mm N/N. I bet if you add just a couple percent water to the HP it will spray great. Or just switch to Enduro Clear Poly. It has much lower viscosity so it will spray great w/o thinning, and the chemical durability and abrasion resistance are substantially higher.

You've pointed out more benefits of the PPS cups. The filters built into the lids make pre-filtering unnecessary except for really contaminated stuff. And cleaning the lids and liners is so simple with WB finishes that I keep reusing them until the liner gets a tear in the top lip and the gun seal wears out on the lid. I've used some of them for a couple of years. The cost of disposables turns out to be very low.

John

[Shannon Brantley]

I spray Milesi waterbase finish through one of these Anest Iwata guns with the Pressure Assisted System. It was recommended by my paint supplier (they called it an Air Gunsa 9262) and I couldn't find much info on line so I went in blindly taking their advise. It's a great gun for thick finishes. The Milesi stuff I was spraying is as thick as yogurt and this gun does the trick. The little regulator that pressurizes the cup is VERY sensitive, just a slight turn makes a big difference, but once it's dialed in it works great.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aGZgejCiZ8

[Tom M King]

Thanks for that tip. I looked online, and most sellers listed first are not in this country, but I found a seller on ebay for $278. That's not a bad price for a good gun. It's available with a choice of nozzle sizes. I'm thinking the 1.8. Which do you use for the Milesi? Most of what I would use it for would not ask for as wide a fan as seen in that video.

I realize the fan width is adjustable, but wondering if, sort of like airless tips, a smaller nozzle would work better for narrower fans, since there is some pressure on material delivery to the tip.

[Dave Cav]

Got a link for that gun?

[Shannon Brantley]

I use a 1.8. And I think that's about what I paid for mine a couple of years ago. Just called the paint guy at my distributor (I'd say the company but I don't know if that violates the rules. PM me and I'll tell you the company and give you Mike's number). He said there's still not a lot of info out there for some reason. They didn't even put the pressure stuff in the new catalog. But they keep a few on their shelves and it's the only gun they recommend for the thicker Milesi stuff. It's an Anest Iwata but Air Gunsa makes it? I don't know. I do know I fought that finish for 2 weeks, thinning it, changing tips, cranking pressure, and finally asked Mike. I bought that gun and had the project finished the next day.

Mike said he tried a 2.0 but it didn't spray as evenly as the 1.8. That's all they offer in their guns.

Dave, I can't find one from the States. No idea why. Here's one that's at least in english. https://anest-iwata.com.au/products/spray-guns/gravityspraygun/az3hte2pas

[Warren Lake]

Shannon are you spraying polyester or Urathane or? Ive customized lots of spray guns after trying my first pressure pot system. It was clear its a good thing having a turbo. This originally a gravity feed.





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