Moving Martin T75 Saw

[Patrick Kane]

I have a 1970s Martin T75 enroute this week. Unfortunately, it is coming on a flatbed trailer with a 30” deck. Getting the saw from the deck to the ground has me a little anxious, and brought me here for affirmation/advice. My current game plan is to use my pallet Jack to move the machine to the back of the trailer, position my 2 ton engine hoist under the trailer to lift the saw, have the trailer pull forward and away, and finally lower the saw to blocking/pallet Jack on the ground. Once it is on the ground I am confident I can get it where I need it to be using my pallet Jack. My driveway has a slight incline, but it’s nothing terrible that two people pushing can’t overcome. First, has anyone used an engine hoist to move a large object from a truck bed? Was it sketchy or simple? Next, I can’t find an English manual for this saw, just the German one. It weighs 900kgs, but I want to make sure I’m not damaging it by using straps under the table to lift the whole machine. I will obviously avoid applying force to the sliding table carriage. I think I read Mark’s restore of a T17 that all the internals hang off the table anyway. The table of the T17 in my garage is quite robust and I imagine it could be picked up that way without damage, but I’m no expert. Finally, does anyone have contact info for Patrick Walsh? He hasn’t logged in since last year, and I think he’s the guy I need to speak to about moving this machine. He is intimately familiar with the make after all.

[Warren Lake]

I think most lift machines from tables but I still felt odd about it. I drill the bottoms and chain to the four corners then lift from the chain above the machine. If it can sit on the base then it can be lifted from the base and not hurt anything. Its more work for sure. Will send Patrick an email, sure he will contact you if he has time. He posted lots on the restoration of the machine and moving it as well.

[Gustav Gabor]

I have a T75 (made in 1975), and that one weighs a bit more than 900kg.
Mine came in at just over 2500lbs, but does have a 10' table, so that can add a few pounds to an 8' version.

As to lifting the T75 with an engine hoist, most are rated at 2 tons without the boom extended at all.
As soon as the boom is extended enough to balance something as large as that saw, the rating drops by at least half, if not more.
Another thing to consider is the top of the saw on that trailer will be at about 66" or so above the ground, if not higher.
The engine hoist may not have enough height extension to lift a rigged up table saw.

Obviously a forklift or a gantry crane would be the ideal way to go, but sometimes that isn't possible or practical.
My saw was delivered in a 5 ton truck with a lift gate, and it was nerve-racking as it was being loaded on the lift gate and lowered!

I believe Patrick Walsh disassembled a good bit of his T75 to get it into his shop, but he would most certainly have some very good insight into moving heavy machinery.

Good luck, and congrats on a great saw!!

[Joe Calhoon]

I think the weight is going to be around 2300lbs. Here is a screen shot from a sales brochure. Does not say if that’s for the 8’ or 10’ saw.
when I sold my 8’ T75 to a furniture maker 3 miles down the county road I moved it with my skid steer. It will lift 2600 lbs and I could tell we were near the limit with the T75.
463756
Might be possible to lift from the table but again risky. While restoring my T17 I lifted the table and flipped it with the innards attached using the forks with slings and a electric hoist to assist flipping. Very tricky rigging to get the balance right. With a hoist you will be at a disadvantage with a single lifting point. Also on the T75 I think you will have to go under the sliding table base with a sling. That is attached to the saw with dovetail ways so it can move. Possibly not a good idea to lif from there. Not sure if you can get a sling under the top next to the wagon.
A lot simpler to rent a forklift if possible. Or have it dropped somewhere to get it on a low trailer.

[Malcolm McLeod]

... I drill the bottoms and chain to the four corners then lift from the chain above the machine. ...

I think most riggers would ^agree^. Keep in mind the inward, or crush, load applied by chains rigged in this fashion. Either use relatively long chains and merge them well above the load, or look at a spreader.

[Ronald Blue]

I would be exploring other options if it were me. Considering the size and heft of this machine I would be doubtful your engine hoist is up to the task. Two ton is with the boom all the way in. I don't think you will be able to do it but it's your call. If you can turn it sideways on the trailer maybe. What is your plan if it's not capable of handling it? Are you going to lower it onto blocking if it will pick it up? Because with the boom fully retracted or very close to it the base is going to be coming down on the legs of the hoist. Maybe a gantry crane can be rented at a local rental store? Or hire a roll back wrecker to slide it on to the deck of it and then ease it down the incline to the driveway. In fact it should be able to put it inside on the garage/shop floor. I'd hate for you to have a disaster happen after getting it all the way to your driveway. Keep us posted and congrats on your acquisition.

[Brian Holcombe]

No way on the engine hoist, would not risk it. They can get out of control very easily.

I wouldn’t pick that machine up from the table.

Can you rent a forklift in your area?

[roger wiegand]

Look in the manual for instructions on lifting points, most big, heavy machines will provide instructions or a diagram for the safest method of lifting. If it is designed, as is likely, to be lifted by the table, then do that.

Hire a crane or forklift, as appropriate, to do the actual move. You'll be really unhappy if you break your hoist and damage the saw by dropping it. Or if someone gets hurt.

Some things are just not worth messing around with.

[Jim Becker]

Rent a forklift for both safety and lifting capacity. You may also need longer forks to do the job, depending on the dimensions of the machine. I agree with Brian...no way would I attempt something like this with an engine hoist.

[Patrick Kane]

First, thanks for all the quick responses. Second, this is why this forum is great. Anywhere else would have shrugged and suggested I buy a sawstop. Half of you have actually moved the same machine in your lifetime.

I briefly searched for renting a forklift here, and Not much came up. More than renting a forklift, You all have me leaning towards getting someone to get it off the deck. The saw was a ridiculous price, my shipping is $615, and I can afford a few hundred more to get it off safely. Now, just a matter of finding the folks to do that on Tuesday. IÂ’ve boot strapped every other tool move and never once considered riggers. Namely, because IÂ’m about to get a quote for $500 to have some guy drive a forklift here, unload the saw in 5 minutes, and drive away.

I unloaded the T17 last year in the dead of night—Ushippers arrived at 2:45am—and the knuckleheads put the saw directly on the bed of the trailer. It’s heavy, but the three of us scooted it to the end of the tilting trailer and onto my pallet Jack. Homeward bound anytime something is on the ground and on a pallet Jack. This one has me anxious only because of the height. And the ramps off those goosenecks are always short and steep.

[Mike King]

I unloaded my Felder CF741 which weighs a bit more than the Martin by renting a Bobcat and putting forks on it. I rented it for the day and it came on a trailer -- cost about $300...

Mike

[Warren Lake]

Patrick said he would not lift from the top, Joes numbers are close to what Patrick said in the past on the weight of his saw. For me I dont have a set way but done my mcgiver chain way a number of times. When I bought the smaller SCM slider i did it myself on beams and a block and tackle pulled it onto a trailer and slid it off. That wont work for you. Forget the engine hoist. I think people do too much with those though a friend turned a small wide belt sideways for me and moved it. I was more than concerned but it worked.

Chains work for me., cut off carpets go around the machine then smaller chains go around from one chain to another so they cannot shift too much. I had to adjust to what was there to lift stuff off and often it wa a farm vehicle. The best one was their last new one and the kid driving was very precise.

One other thing about chains for me is I moved on my car trailer (not this one) and the wheels were always in the way, wiht the chains they put forks under the chain and then lowered it onto the trailer, otherwise some other way would be needed. At this end a farm vehicle just llifted under the chains and up and over the wheels. In this case I set the jointer on beams with straps under and over and that effectivliy increased the base of the machine to the length of the beams so it was very stable to drive. A strap also ran to all four corners of the trailer. This end a farm vehicle went under the chains and simple and easy. One other reason for chains is if you have to change height levels to a lower area, forks will be useless. Ive lowered stuff before over 50" and forks could not be used. I adjust to what I was doing. This machine only 1,600 lbs so light compared to what you are doing.



463766

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Another cautionary recommendation to not use the cherry picker to lift it off. Too much weight, too high and it's just begging for failure. When that sort of thing fails it is always catastrophic.

A rental telehandler, skid steer, forklift, crane, tractor and loader, etc would all be highly recommended. I have yet to see a location that doesn't have someone renting this stuff. Put an add on your local social media and you'll likely get 10x more leads than you need.

[Bill Dufour]

Can the arm of the engine crane lift high enough to get on top of the saw 30 inches up on top of a trailer deck? How tall is that saw to the top of the table? See if you can rent a gantry crane and a spreader bar or two
Bill D

[Malcolm McLeod]

... Namely, because IÂ’m about to get a quote for $500 to have some guy drive a forklift here, unload the saw in 5 minutes, and drive away.
...

I used to question the sanity of customers who would call me in the middle of the night, have me drive 75 miles, walk in, trouble-shoot the problem, find or suggest a fix, and leave. Once it took longer to type this than to find the problem (a sheared shaft key). It was a 4 hour minimum at emergency rates (2.5X my std) + travel + mileage. Then someone said factor in the potential lost production, poor quality, equipment depreciation, and staff standing around - if they waited until morning. It finally made more sense.

Perhaps a rigger will seem more worthwhile, if you factor in the cost of all the things that can go wrong? ...But won't with a qualified rigging crew.

Good luck & 'good work' with your new arrival!

[Patrick Kane]

Y’all convinced me, I’m ponying up. Sunbelt rental has forklifts it looks like, but I’ve never operated one, so I will need to call tomorrow and see if I can pay for a full day’s rental and have the driver unload the saw for me. Looks like it’s $300+ for the day for most machines.

My most interesting lead is an equipment and wreckage hauler that is only 2-3 miles away. My neighbor suggested them saying he used them to move a custom shed from one house to another years ago. I’m just hoping to be under $500 to have someone do it for me.

I will say I still am confused on how much this actually weighs. One, I had no idea the T75 came in a 10’ configuration. That’s usually the main complaint leveled against it, that it can barely cut an 8’ sheet without clamps. Joe has a manual that says over 2,000lbs. I have a scan of a German manual saying it’s under 2,000lbs. And I found a post from Darcy who has bought and sold a dozen of these saying he personally weighed one at 3,250lbs.

Whelp, I will let you all know what I end up doing. Hopefully with photos of it safely tucked away in my garage next to its smaller brother.

[Brian Holcombe]

I would rent the biggest baddest thing that will still fit in your shop.

[Ron Selzer]

either rent a forklift, skid steer with forks, telehandler
talk to a landscaping company about unloading with their skid steer ( what I did to get a small wide belt sander, 480kg, off of truck)
hire a rollback wrecker (probably cheapest way and fastest)
hire a wrecker with hydraulic boom that could back up and extend boom to above saw
good luck
ron

[johnny means]

I had an old Martin. I wouldn't lift it by the table as the base is very heavy gauge steel and is filled with very heavy concrete. The connection between the top and the base is just a few bolts. Nothing hung off the table but the fence rail. I imagine that type of stress could just snap the webbing under the top. Also, the balance point on these isn't all that obvious, lifting it by the top would probably just roll it onto it's side. I had mine delivered and shipped off via a rollback. Driver jogged it off the flat bed with the winch then drove out from under it. And please tell me you're talking about a gantry crane and not a dinky little engine hoist. 30" inches is not all that high, I'd build something to ramp it down to the ground.

[Warren Lake]

Im sure Patrick said over 3000 lbs remember 3,500. Forget skid steers we have lifted one machine and it started to bob, he went home got a larger skid steer and it could just barely do the job, it did but was at its max at 1,300 lbs their largest machine. This John Deere I think was rated for 4,000 lbs max. this machine was about 2,500 lbs. Kid that lifted ran it smooth as silk, real pro. Sad thing that 150 acre farm is about to become 156 homes.



463771

[Phillip Mitchell]

Having moved a fair bit of heavy stuff with a variety of hydraulic loaders as well as with homemade ramps, black pipe, and pallet jacks, I would recommend you get rent a true forklift that can lift at least 4K pounds (or more) as you will have a lot of weight cantilevered on the forks at enough height to really want more than enough capacity for piece of mind.

Operating a forklift is not rocket science, but this may not be the time to learn. Slow and steady wins the race with operating, but its about 50x easier and safer than doing this type of moving manually as I’ve done several times as I don’t typically have access to a lift on the unload end when moving machines into my shop.

Unless you get among the largest skid steers / farm tractors with front end loader, I would be concerned about being very close to the max lifting capacity given the differences in weights you’re seeing listed.

I have never rented a machine like this and had someone else operate it, though I suppose it could work if they are insured to do that.

Another option that someone probably already mentioned is to hire a rollback tow truck. Use the pallet jack to roll it off the flatbed and on to the rollback. Then the rollback can reposition such that the end of his ramp is convenient for you to have the saw on the ground (closer to the shop, sometimes right inside the shop door if it’s a garage door.) Pallet jack under the saw, slings around the saw hooked up to the tow winch and let it down the ramp slowly and controlled.

May be cheaper than hiring a lift and a driver and still pretty safe and foolproof.

I would not do this with an engine hoist. Too much weight, starting height and width/length you’re dealing with and I would avoid lifting / slinging around the tables if at all possible.

[Ronald Blue]

Glad you are looking into other options. I could see this not ending well at all. Damage to the saw is one thing. When things go wrong sometimes it happens so fast that you can't get away from it. I've done my share of dumb things and have been lucky. I've also learned to play the what if game and assess what the risks are as I've gotten older. You might also check around to see if a contractor near by might have a telehandler. There's one close to me that I used in the past. Telehandlers are very versatile machines. They can operate on rough terrain and can extend the boom and put it inside your shop easily. Best of luck.

[Bill Dufour]

I bet that German manual weight was in Kilos not pounds. So roughly double the kilos to get pounds.
Bill D.
K times 2.2 = pounds

[Jim Becker]

I think this was eluded to, but the same method I used to get delivery of my CNC machine is also an option...hire a rollback (some will do non-automotive stuff) and have them winch it off the trailer onto their truck. They can then winch it down as close to your shop as you want them to. If you have tall doors, that can mean right inside the shop, too.

[Warren Lake]

scm saw only 1,300 lbs rolling down 12 foot hard maple 2" thick planed and waxed this saw on pipe then block and tackle used sideways to the front of the trailer, huge storm appeared out of no where. so tarp came out and waited.

463812

[Joe Calhoon]

Y’all convinced me, I’m ponying up. Sunbelt rental has forklifts it looks like, but I’ve never operated one, so I will need to call tomorrow and see if I can pay for a full day’s rental and have the driver unload the saw for me. Looks like it’s $300+ for the day for most machines.

My most interesting lead is an equipment and wreckage hauler that is only 2-3 miles away. My neighbor suggested them saying he used them to move a custom shed from one house to another years ago. I’m just hoping to be under $500 to have someone do it for me.

I will say I still am confused on how much this actually weighs. One, I had no idea the T75 came in a 10’ configuration. That’s usually the main complaint leveled against it, that it can barely cut an 8’ sheet without clamps. Joe has a manual that says over 2,000lbs. I have a scan of a German manual saying it’s under 2,000lbs. And I found a post from Darcy who has bought and sold a dozen of these saying he personally weighed one at 3,250lbs.

Whelp, I will let you all know what I end up doing. Hopefully with photos of it safely tucked away in my garage next to its smaller brother.

Patrick,
The older T75s were lighter. As they were getting near the end of that model they weighed more as they added more things like a overhead guard, scoring saws, heavier outriggers etc. If it’s the 8’ I’d be surprised if it’s over 2500 lbs. my newer compound filled T72 is around 3500lbs. I don’t touch that one with the skid steer.
Just get a 5000 lb lift and you will have no problems. Longer forks always help but I did move mine 3 miles with 4’ forks.

[Gustav Gabor]

So as to the weight ............... I dug out the waybill from back in 2012, and the total weight, including a large pallet and spare parts box, came to 2740 lbs.
This is for a 1975 Martin T75 with a 10' slider and scoring saw. Came with all the parts except for the miter gauge.

Here's a pic of it as it was getting ready to be shipped by the seller :

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51413242370_314da0a42b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mkdiKh)


And here's a partial pic of the waybill showing the dimensions and weight:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51411519407_2da21abe89_w.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mk4tz2)


Hopes this helps a bit.... Depending on how the sliding table carriage is situated on the saw (it's adjustable front to back on the saw base), long forks will likely be needed to unload it.

[Zachary Hoyt]

I like the rollback truck idea. The local guy I used to get to haul dead tractors for me had a $75 charge for up to 15 loaded miles, and went up from there. I would imagine it would be cheaper to use someone like him than to hire a forklift and operator.

[Patrick Kane]

Gustav, that is very helpful, thank you. Confirms what Joe alluded to on the weight. Its downright shocking that a contemporary T75 is 5,500lbs+. I havent seen my saw in person yet, and i dont have many details on it. It was a knee jerk reactionary purchase--if you couldnt already tell from my scramble to game plan an unload plan. However, im almost certain its the standard 8' slider, and i dont think it has a scoring saw. The scoring adjustments are usually an orange/yellow knob on the front trunnion, and i dont see those in the one image i have. Subtract out a scoring motor, 2' of slider, crate, and accessories, and i bet its closer to 2,000-2,200lbs net machine weight. Here is the photo of the saw from the listing, saw being loaded by the seller, and a snip of the german manual i found. It looks like he picked it up from the operator's side of the saw with standard length forks. Is that not a good way to pick up these machines?

To add to the drama of this saga, i expected this transporter on Tuesday afternoon. That would give me one and a half business days to arrange an unload. He called me last night as im eating dinner saying he made his drop of the motorcycle in ohio and he was headed my way. I told him to pump the brakes and i wasnt unloading the saw at 11pm on sunday. And, if you ever dealt with Uship drivers, it would realistically have been after midnight. I had a sleepless night contemplating how effed Monday morning was set to be as ill-equipped as i am. Got up this morning and started calling all the wreckers, salvage guys, and riggers in the Pittsburgh area. Obviously no one was in the office at 6:30-7, but i just got a callback from a rigging company close to my home. Owner started with, "we dont normally deal with one off residential jobs and its going to have to be a minimum charge for me to send a truck there with a forklift". At this point i am all but guaranteeing the words "a grand" are going to come out of his mouth, but no, only $300! If this goes as smoothly as i hope, I will add these guys to my contacts for future bail outs. I so rarely get to throw money at a problem and make it disappear, what a treat.

[Jim Becker]

Darn you got major lucky with that rigger's number! LOL The only one in my area wanted a minimum of $4K to move the machinery from my old shop to the new temporary one. I did it in three loads of my 5x8 utility trailer with two people helping.'

Congrats on taking delivery of your new-to-you saw!

[Gustav Gabor]

Patrick ... I think your saw may well have a scoring saw on it!
Note the hole above the adjustment wheel.
That's where the rod and knob for the scoring height adjustment goes.

You're possibly missing some parts, but if that price on there is correct, no worries!
You do have a miter gauge too .... lucky @$##!

Nice score!!

And as to that rigger, that may be the best $300 you'll spend since you bought the saw!

I foresee many hours of your time being consumed by perusing over Patrick Walsh's excellent restoration of his T75.....

[Patrick Kane]

Jim, you better believe it. Ive only called one other rigger before to move a T72A in long island at an IRS auction. They wanted $3,000 to show up and move the saw from a loading dock to a trailer. I cant believe my luck on the price and showing up 3.5 hours after calling them. I tipped the employee--who was fantastic--and called the company owner to profusely thank him. If you are in Pittsburgh, J Poli comes with a high recommendation after this morning.

Unloading was pretty uneventful. The Texan ushipper showed up and it looked like he blew his transmission. It was smoking and spluttering, and he was cursing the topography of southwest PA. The rigger showed up about 45 minutes later, and we got to getting the saw off the trailer. Unfortunately, the shipper had the saw flat on the deck. It was also positioned squarely between the wheel wells. Between a johnson bar and the forklift, we got the saw up enough to get my pallet jack under it. I was then able to back it towards the back of the trailer and prep it for side loading with the forklift. At this point, just about every neighbor had their head in a window or over a fence. The guy from the rigging company was a pro from that point forward. Grabbed the saw and drove it around the block to my driveway and up close to my garage. My deck extends over the driveway and garage, so he had to drop it there and we rolled it into the garage on my pallet jack. I gave the guy a big tip and we had a laugh about how screwed i would have been without the forklift. I want to clarify, that is because of the height of the gooseneck trailer, and that it was directly on the deck. The saw isnt that large, nor is it crazy heavy. Its pretty similar in size to my Felder KF700. It 'feels' similar in weight to the T17 that i just moved over the weekend. I think 2,000lbs is accurate for this era of T75.

SITREP: It looks like i have most of the bits and pieces? I spent 3-5 mins going over things, and i think i have it all and then some extras. I have several crosscut fences, a miter gauge with a short crosscut extrusion, two rip fence extrusions, a butt bar, sliding table auxiliary support table, and then another cast part that i am unsure of its purpose. I think it might have to do with the outrigger support arm. Some cool bonuses to me are this saw is the same vintage as my T17, which means i can reverse engineer the rip fence indicator. I have no idea how this happened, but my T17's rip fence is missing the indicator/pointer, and ive been noodling how to replace it. Now i have the actual part to copy! It also means i have a spare crosscut fence for my T17. The T75 has the standard 6.5hp motor, same as my T17. No scoring motor, but no surprise there. The table got caught in a little drizzle this morning heading from Ohio to Pittsburgh, so i have some surface rust on the table. I already quickly scrubbed at that with mineral spirits and a green scotchbrite. After work today i will go at it with more care to prevent anything worse than surface rust. The one thing i immediately noticed is im missing the brass rip fence scale! Why on earth would someone remove that? It is riveted to the machine in multiple places and had to be some effort to remove it. Its not just something that falls off. The stick on scales are kind of cheap, and now i need to think about having a brass scale etched and how stupid expensive that might be to replace. Finally, the sliding table feels pretty good? I dont know if im the right person to diagnose the condition/wear of the table and carriage. It isnt as smooth as my Felder Xroll, but i retracted it all the way and wiggled it side to side without any play. I think Warren previously suggested that to test the wear in the ways. I will take a dial indicator to it when i have time this week.

[Gustav Gabor]

After looking at the pictures again, I totally missed that the saw only has the one set of start/stop switches!
So obviously no scoring.

Glad it went well with the unloading!

[Erik Loza]

That's pretty awesome. I'll bet money that your brass scale was sold or scalped to use on someone else's project machine. No real reason to remove it, otherwise. Keep us updated on the progress.

Erik

[Patrick Kane]

Patrick ... I think your saw may well have a scoring saw on it!
Note the hole above the adjustment wheel.
That's where the rod and knob for the scoring height adjustment goes.

You're possibly missing some parts, but if that price on there is correct, no worries!
You do have a miter gauge too .... lucky @$##!

Nice score!!

And as to that rigger, that may be the best $300 you'll spend since you bought the saw!

I foresee many hours of your time being consumed by perusing over Patrick Walsh's excellent restoration of his T75.....

Haha, good eyes on that photo. I paid the price on the machine and not half off that listed price, but yes, it was a good buy for me even with the rigger and hauling cost. I just deleted that photo in case i have to sell this saw one day. I always try to never post prices, because ive resold stuff for a profit in the past, had people recognize it was me, and then send me ranting emails about unethical behavior. I hope it doesnt come to selling either Martin, id love to have them look half as nice as Walsh's and be back to back. Would be a prime centerpiece for any shop.

Oh yes, i went to bed in a sour mood last night, and i could not have been happier after that 7:30am phone call with the rigging company. I think im more excited about the rigger than the saw, to be honest. There is always something with moving machines like this that ends up as a knock-down-drag-out fight for me. God, i hope to own a proper fork lift one day.

I need to check on the riving knife in the T75. The T17 is missing the riving knife, but has the bracket. A new knife from Martin USA is like $130, which is a little crazy, but thats the way it is with this company, i presume. One initial observation is how pitiful the stock crosscut extrusion and stops are. I need to price out a Felder crosscut fence extrusion and stops. The one on my KF700 is immensely nicer and more robust than what i received this morning.

I followed along with Patrick's thread years ago. Its an unbelievable restore. I assure you i am not as manic as he or Mark. Those guys are just next level on the details.

[Zachary Hoyt]

I'm glad it all worked out so smoothly in the end, it's nice to have a happy outcome.

[Kevin Jenness]

My rule of thumb is if the grooves worn in the v-ways are >1/16" the carriage probably has some slop, but a dial indicator and straightedge will tell the true story. I believe Patrick Walsh turned his ways over and re-bonded them with some exotic spooge. Congratulations on the score.

[Joe Calhoon]

Glad it worked out Patrick! Looks like you have all the important parts. The brass scale on my T17 was so worn it was almost unreadable. I ended up taking it off and putting on a metric- imperial stick on. My T72 has a nicer scale in a holder that I may upgrade to at some point. Curious what the small piece on the crosscut table with the spring is?

I just put the finishing touches to my T17 restoration this week. It was a 7month part time job. Was easier than the T23 shaper though.

[Patrick Kane]

Nice, post some photos of the T17! Did you paint it blue to match the shaper? I’m tired of 60s/70s green and I’m going blue/teal if I ever repaint these. Of the two, I am more excited about the T17. It seems like the perfect compliment to a contemporary slider. The outrigger and crosscut extrusion on this t75 leave a lot to be desired. It’s not the heft and build quality I expected. The rest of the machine is 10/10, even for being 50 years old. I will be stoned for saying it, but the outrigger and fence on my 2004 KF700 is more impressive than this design and build. Except for the cantilever outrigger support beam. The felder’s kind of sucks and this one rides on bearings and feels like it could support 200-300lbs no problem.

Joe, I have no clue what the part with a spring is or does. I picked it up and looked at it for a bit after work and I don’t have a guess.

Kevin, my grooves are 3/16” wide. There’s definitely wear. This weekend I should have time look it over closely and see what I have. The T17 had very slight dishing of the table top near the throat plate. Maybe dished .002-.003” in that area. I expect there will be some level of deviation on this 75 from the years of use.

I lightly oiled the ways of the sliding table and that made a huge improvement on how smoothly and quietly the table rolls. Generally, I think the whole thing needs some TLC, because the blade height adjustment was extremely tight, but loosened up with some usage. I assume that will be much better with lithium sprayed on the motor mount ways. I really need to buy an oil gun too, because the whole machine has numerous oil ports.

[Brian Holcombe]

I repaired patrick’s outrigger and it was a brick house after that. I believe he posted photos of the modification.

[Jared Sankovich]

My rule of thumb is if the grooves worn in the v-ways are >1/16" the carriage probably has some slop, but a dial indicator and straightedge will tell the true story. I believe Patrick Walsh turned his ways over and re-bonded them with some exotic spooge. Congratulations on the score.

This was the "exotic spooge" Patrick used on his Martin. I asked him about it when I was replacing the laminated ways on my shaper. McMaster has it in stock. You don't need nearly as much as I bought. I used a tiny amount and the bottle had a relatively soon expiration date (6 months Iirc) I also misread the catalog (from my phone) and this part number didn't include the activator. The small kit would likely be enough.
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[Joe Calhoon]

Nice, post some photos of the T17! Did you paint it blue to match the shaper? I’m tired of 60s/70s green and I’m going blue/teal if I ever repaint these. Of the two, I am more excited about the T17. It seems like the perfect compliment to a contemporary slider. The outrigger and crosscut extrusion on this t75 leave a lot to be desired. It’s not the heft and build quality I expected. The rest of the machine is 10/10, even for being 50 years old. I will be stoned for saying it, but the outrigger and fence on my 2004 KF700 is more impressive than this design and build. Except for the cantilever outrigger support beam. The felder’s kind of sucks and this one rides on bearings and feels like it could support 200-300lbs no problem.

Joe, I have no clue what the part with a spring is or does. I picked it up and looked at it for a bit after work and I don’t have a guess.

Kevin, my grooves are 3/16” wide. There’s definitely wear. This weekend I should have time look it over closely and see what I have. The T17 had very slight dishing of the table top near the throat plate. Maybe dished .002-.003” in that area. I expect there will be some level of deviation on this 75 from the years of use.

I lightly oiled the ways of the sliding table and that made a huge improvement on how smoothly and quietly the table rolls. Generally, I think the whole thing needs some TLC, because the blade height adjustment was extremely tight, but loosened up with some usage. I assume that will be much better with lithium sprayed on the motor mount ways. I really need to buy an oil gun too, because the whole machine has numerous oil ports.

Patrick,
I did go with the water blue to match my restored T23. I will post about it when I get a chance. The groves in my T75 were about 1/8” wide. I think 3/16 might be OK. I had the fence like your on my T75 and did not mind it but for sure most modern fences are better. Did you get the fence setting gauge?
my T17 came with their first version of the 2 point fence. I get that those are more accurate but prefer a solid fence. I put a Felder short fence on mine but will eventually get something better that has fine adjust.

[Patrick Kane]

Patrick,
I did go with the water blue to match my restored T23. I will post about it when I get a chance. The groves in my T75 were about 1/8” wide. I think 3/16 might be OK. I had the fence like your on my T75 and did not mind it but for sure most modern fences are better. Did you get the fence setting gauge?
my T17 came with their first version of the 2 point fence. I get that those are more accurate but prefer a solid fence. I put a Felder short fence on mine but will eventually get something better that has fine adjust.

I think Peter has the only other blue T-17. Im hoping to cobble together a used Martin line up for the big 4 machines in my shop, and id like them all to match one another. The only problem is, it looks like Martin tweaked their blue from the mid 90s-early 2000s to the contemporary blue/teal. It could just be the photos, but the first blue they went with looks darker and more blue than the teal of the 2010s. Ive never seen a martin in the flesh, and i cant tell if my eyes are playing tricks on me with the blue in photos. I have the paint code from Martin USA, it is RAL 5021.

What does the fence setting gauge look like? I do have this stamped aluminum thing with slots cut in it that i have no clue of its function. I just priced up Felder's crosscut fence last night, and was pleasantly surprised. With the 102" version, extension, and two stops, i think it was right around a grand. They offer a shorter fence around 42" that is cheaper. I need to measure if the 42" would hit the ground when the T-17's table is folded down. That might be a reason to go with a shorter fence. My only complaint against Felder's crosscut fence is the flag stops. Like you mention, they dont have microadjust, they arent dead nuts square to the outrigger table, and i am so fearful of bumping them too hard. I treat my current Felder's crosscut stop like a porcelain doll. Just over the weekend i cut a few small walnut island tops to length and width on the slider. I moved each 3'x3'x1.5" piece to within 1/8" of the stop, and then ever so carefully wiggled it into position so it was ever so slightly kissing the stop. Its fine, i am tender with things when it is warranted, but i can see those stops getting the snot beat out of them in an actual shop. Funny enough, there is a listing on woodweb for some zimmerman equipment, and in the background of the bandsaw photo, you can see the back end of a T17 with a Felder fence on it. Looks like most folks came away with the same impression that i did, the OEM fence sucks.

[Joe Calhoon]

Patrick,
here is the fence setting gauge. Should be a couple holes in the saw blade end of your fence. Plug this in when resetting the fence to keep stop accuracy.
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The short Felder fence will hit the floor when the T17 table is folded. You can slide it up in the air but I usually remove it.

[Brian Holcombe]

I made a stop system for the Wadkin mortiser using a linear rail, linear bearings and an air clamp system which operates by opening with a push button. I built a flip down stop for it and installed a micro adjuster.

You could build something similar and mount it on top of an aluminum extrusion. Would be much better than any other stop I’ve seen on a woodworking machine, IMO.

[Keith Outten]

The machine in Patrick's picture is not a fork lift its called a Lull. They are used extensively in major construction jobs and can lift major loads up several stories with ease. The boom will extend way out and up from the machine. A Lull will destroy your yard and crack thin concrete in a real hurry, they are serious workhorses. Some people refer to a Lull as a fork lift but that's like calling a tractor trailer a pickup truck.

[Tom M King]

Actually, Lull is a brand of Telehandler. Many manufacturers make "Telehandlers".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telescopic_handler

[Phillip Mitchell]

Having a telehandler at your disposal is the stuff dreams are made of. I managed a fairly involved commercial construction project for about a year and there was an 80’ man lift, 20’ scissor lift, and a mid sized telehandler on site for much of the construction.

I have already determined that when I move my shop out of my basement I will be renting a small telehandler to help pull the machines out of the walkout door and load onto a trailer, etc. Solves so many problems by having tons of ballast, hydraulics and 4 wheel steering.

[Tom M King]

They make mini ones now, that can handle 2,500 lbs., but I doubt anyone is renting those yet. I'm getting ready to buy one for a large stonework job. It's like a little articulated loader, with telescopic boom arms. Any of those will tear up the ground less than either a wheeled, or tracked skid steer loader.

[Jim Becker]

Having a telehandler at your disposal is the stuff dreams are made of. .

Matt Cremona bought one not that long ago, used from a rental place. Oh, my, he's having fun with that thing, including being able to reach over his trailer from the rear to take something out of the truck bed. :) The lifting capacity of those things can be pretty impressive, too, because they are darn heavy machines.

[Brian Holcombe]

If a telehandler would do 65mph I would strongly consider one as my daily driver.

The ability to clear your own parking spot would be pretty handy.

[Malcolm McLeod]

If a telehandler would do 65mph I would strongly consider one as my daily driver.

The ability to clear your own parking spot would be pretty handy.

Let's talk. I have such a deal for you! Cold A/C and low mileage.

[Brian Holcombe]

Hah! I actually have some questions for you but none relate to moving cars out of parking spots.

[Jim Becker]

If a telehandler would do 65mph I would strongly consider one as my daily driver.

The ability to clear your own parking spot would be pretty handy.

Put in a trap door and you could use that thang to access your lower shop from the upper. :)

[Brian Holcombe]

That’s one way to get that Martin tablesaw I’ve always wanted ��

[Jim Becker]

That’s one way to get that Martin tablesaw I’ve always wanted ��

I know where you can buy a nice property that has a shop with the space to put it... :)

[Brian Holcombe]

I think I know which one you have in mind :D

[Tom Bender]

Seems like a flat bed tow truck could make the transfer at a reasonable cost.

[Doug Walls]

At this point I am all but guaranteeing the words "a grand" are going to come out of his mouth, but no, only $300!
Glad to see that you got someone to unload it for you, And at a great price!


Seems like a flat bed tow truck could make the transfer at a reasonable cost.
A friend of mine had a Bridgeport Mill delivered by a u-ship type of service & he arranged to have a local towing company come out with a "Wrecker" that was able to lift it off the trailer & move it just inside the front door of his garage door. Once inside the garage we used a come-along & a bunch of 3' long 1" pipes as rollers to move it into the far corner.

That was back around 2016 & I believe he paid around $150 back then.

If anyone is checking around for something like this, Be sure to mention that you're lookin for a wrecker style tow truck that has a extendable boom/winch.

Doug

[Tom Bender]

Seems that the flat bed tow would work out better. It can tilt and winch and back right into the garage and would have more capability for a tall load.

[Michael Schuch]

I don't think my EMA sliding saw is as big as your Martin saw but this is how I unloaded it by myself:
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