new slider - requesting feedback on rip capacity

[David Zaret]

i'm thinking very seriously about upgrading my slider to get a few big features that i don't have on my current slider. it's a big investment, but i think it would pay off over the long term. the length of the slider would remain consistent (10') as it's fine for me, and fits in my shop. but, the rip capacity requires some thought, and that's where i'd like to solicit feedback.

on my current slider, i have ~52" or so of capacity, but, the rip fence doesn't easily come off and get out of the way. so, the capacity needs to be that big, because i often have to shove the fence all the way over to ensure the piece i'm cutting clears the fence. with the new saw, i'm seriously thinking about a dramatically smaller rip capacity (33"), mainly because with this saw, the rip fence rolls off the end of the table and disappears below it. so, it's out of the way of the cut.

the smaller rip capacity means a smaller overall footprint on the machine, which, in my case is actually very helpful. but, of course, i'm banking on the fact that i rarely cut stock on the right of the blade that's wide, and rather, do the wide cuts on the slider side.

i have options here as these are made to order - i can increase the rip capacity, but, it increases the footprint. the smaller, the better. i would appreciate opinions of those with similar industrial-size saws. thanks in advance.

--- dz

[Erik Loza]

I can't recall the last time I took an order for a saw with the narrow rip capacity but on the other hand, it seems like you know what you want and your logic makes sense.

Erik

[Kevin Jenness]

Do you work with sheet goods? If you can't crosscut in half whatever size sheets you use there will come a time when you have to get out the tracksaw or whatever to dice up the material.

[David Zaret]

kevin - i do - but i have a CNC. most of my sheet goods are cut on that, obviously. i do some sheet good work on the slider, but i really do a lot of solid wood cutting for casework. i completely agree that there will be rare times when i kick and scream.... i'm just trying to weigh the footprint benefit with the relatively minor "cost." tough call.

[Albert Lee]

i'm thinking very seriously about upgrading my slider to get a few big features that i don't have on my current slider. it's a big investment, but i think it would pay off over the long term. the length of the slider would remain consistent (10') as it's fine for me, and fits in my shop. but, the rip capacity requires some thought, and that's where i'd like to solicit feedback.

on my current slider, i have ~52" or so of capacity, but, the rip fence doesn't easily come off and get out of the way. so, the capacity needs to be that big, because i often have to shove the fence all the way over to ensure the piece i'm cutting clears the fence. with the new saw, i'm seriously thinking about a dramatically smaller rip capacity (33"), mainly because with this saw, the rip fence rolls off the end of the table and disappears below it. so, it's out of the way of the cut.

the smaller rip capacity means a smaller overall footprint on the machine, which, in my case is actually very helpful. but, of course, i'm banking on the fact that i rarely cut stock on the right of the blade that's wide, and rather, do the wide cuts on the slider side.

i have options here as these are made to order - i can increase the rip capacity, but, it increases the footprint. the smaller, the better. i would appreciate opinions of those with similar industrial-size saws. thanks in advance.

--- dz

I have just ordered a new slider not too long ago, I too have a small workshop but I still ordered a 60" rip capacity... my current saw is 52" capacity.

[Jim Becker]

Do you work with sheet goods? If you can't crosscut in half whatever size sheets you use there will come a time when you have to get out the tracksaw or whatever to dice up the material.

Not really an issue...the material goes on the outrigger and wagon. The fence isn't used.

------

David, I actually cut down the rip capacity to the right of the slider I owned and my next one with either have a narrower footprint from the factory or I'll likely reduce the footprint myself. Any bigger ripping I would do would involve the wagon anyway, so I could be happy with narrower capacity. Heck, the PCS I'm using right now in my temporary shop effectively only has 22" of rip capacity because the rails were cut down by the previous owner. I don't see it as a problem and if it is, I have my tracksaw. So for the future replacement slider...I'm good if it doesn't take up an aircraft hanger's space to the right. :D

I think the important point here is that we all have different needs and expectations for our machinery. Do what's best for you.

[Derek Cohen]

David, my Hammer K3 has a 33” rip capacity. This works perfectly for my purposes, which is building furniture in solid wood. I have not needed larger in the 4 years I switched from a 52” traditional tablesaw. I do not use sheet goods (if I did, I would first resaw it with a circular saw). A big advantage here for me is the reduced footprint.

https://i.postimg.cc/76FDZ9tw/11a.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[johnny means]

I can't ever remember needing over 30" of ripping capacity on a slider. Though, I have run into a problem cutting 5x12 sheet goods in half because the stand for the guard got in the way. Not a huge deal, but flipping 5x12 MDF sheets for a second pass is no fun. I'm guessing that 10 and 12 foot sheet goods are not a problem for most people.

[Mark e Kessler]

If you are placing the saw against the wall like me then obviously you would be limited to cross cutting hardwood boards to the 33” - if away from the wall then maybe not depending on if you get an overhead guard and how it attaches, mine is in the corner on the end of the extension table so it wouldn’t matter if it was in the middle of the room (well if away from the wall you could cross cut longer but no wider than the distance from the guard support to the blade)

I went through the same and really only need the 33” most of the time but didn’t want to be limited and if I remember correctly the cost difference wasn’t that much so I went for the wider rip and figure I could modify it to the 33” if needed at a later date. I also don't want to have a panel saw that is limited to the point that I need to pull out the track saw to make a cut, I want to use the saw for everything, My track saw and chop saw are collecting dust....

Sounds like making an adjustment to the rip width at a later date may not be an option for you on the proposed saw, you mentioned that the rip fence disappears beneath the table so either a powered rip with that option or maybe an Martin T17 or similar…just guessing…

Mine is against the wall and I don’t really feel i lose any space as i have a work table against the wall on the in-feed side lower than the saw table so it doesn’t interfere with the rip capacity if I need it. Even with the larger rip capacity I occasionally run into cross cut issues but that’s no biggie, the saw just turns into a really expensive set of saw horses…lol…

Out of the bizillion photos I have this is the only one that kinda shows the table on the in-feed side I mentioned
463642

And of course the sawhorse configuration…
463643

[Kevin Jenness]

Not really an issue...the material goes on the outrigger and wagon. The fence isn't used.



Whether the fence is used or not, the falloff to the right of the blade is limited to whatever space is available there. If you need to get two 48" long cuts out of one sheet or rip you have to do it another way. An infrequent situation, perhaps, but worth considering.

[Tom Bain]

I went through this same decision a few years back when upgrading my slider. I technically had the room to go up to 52” but it would have made the space around the saw a bit tight. I stayed at 33” and don’t regret the decision. As others have mentioned, the only time it becomes an issue is if/when you need to crosscut a 4x8 sheet in half, and I just pull out the track saw on those rare occasions.

[Jim Becker]

Whether the fence is used or not, the falloff to the right of the blade is limited to whatever space is available there. If you need to get two 48" long cuts out of one sheet or rip you have to do it another way. An infrequent situation, perhaps, but worth considering.

True, I would use temporary support in that situation. I actually have an old-old portable miter saw stand that has two legs and an aluminum beam about 5' long that I use for that kind of thing. But even with the wider right side table there's limited support forward of blade beyond a certain point so even with a "full size" fence setup, temporary support might be required for crosscutting material for the fall-off.

[Rod Sheridan]

I have 30 some inches of rip capacity, never need more.

I remove the rip fence if it gets in the way f crosscuts, which it normally doesn’t.

[johnny means]

Whether the fence is used or not, the falloff to the right of the blade is limited to whatever space is available there. If you need to get two 48" long cuts out of one sheet or rip you have to do it another way. An infrequent situation, perhaps, but worth considering.

The fall of is only limited by any obstruction on that side of the blade. A 48 X 48 off cut only requires a 25 x 25 area of support to not fall off the table.

[Kevin Jenness]

The fall of is only limited by any obstruction on that side of the blade. A 48 X 48 off cut only requires a 25 x 25 area of support to not fall off the table.

The issue I'm pointing to isn't support for the falloff, it's how much room there is to the right of the blade. If you have a saw with 32" rip capacity next to a wall or other obstruction on the right side, you will only have room for about a 42" offcut (depending on the size of the fence casting) even with the fence out of the way.

[Warren Lake]

Nice set up Mark.

I had a crap radial for tons of years and finally stuck it in the back yard, cross cut with a worm drive. also cross cut solid on the excaliburs on the cabinet saw, it was crappy and I never liked it skill saw was better. Rough material does not always seat well on the fence and can bind when through some amount.

Finally got a Wadkin Radial, right tool for the job. I dont like cutting rough solid on the milwaukee compound feel its not heavy enough or meant for that. Hopefully that keeps the Milwaukee fairly accurate.

There was someone on here that cut the bar from the fence but made it so they could still make it longer when wanted. Im going to a mcgiver set up where that far right 52" whatever it is part of it is the radial arm and support comes that way. Not ideal but think it will work.

Only have an entry level slider and work the old way off the rip fence. Ive made tables and stuff in the past over 40" that are ripped off the fence even some larger commercial stuff. What anyone needs depends on the work they do and how they work. Then in the shop there are always five other ways to do something.

[David Zaret]

guys this is all very helpful. i appreciate the feedback. kevin, you've nailed it with the fundamental fact that i can't crosscut a full sheet in the configuration with 33" rip capacity. it's a tradeoff i think i'm sold on, as i use the CNC for the majority of my full-sheet cuts, and, i have two track saws for the rare times i need to break something down to fit on the slider.

i'm looking very seriously at a Martin T70, mostly to get the Radiocompens fence setup. just got off the phone with jim, in fact. that's the driver for this whole exercise. he, too, agrees that the only concern is this rip capacity, but also agrees with my logic. i think that's the way i'm headed.

thanks again for the feedback.

-- dz

[Kevin Jenness]

You won't go wrong with a Martin. Does that saw come with the vacuum clamping system? That seems like a fantastic idea.

[Jim Becker]

The issue I'm pointing to isn't support for the falloff, it's how much room there is to the right of the blade. If you have a saw with 32" rip capacity next to a wall or other obstruction on the right side, you will only have room for about a 42" offcut (depending on the size of the fence casting) even with the fence out of the way.
Yes, that's true. So it's important to be sure the kind of work/cutting required is compensated for when placing the machine. I did have some issue with this in my old shop because of the stairway. There was enough room for 48" when crosscutting something...until that slanted wall came into play.

-----

David, that Martin would be great!

[David Zaret]

You won't go wrong with a Martin. Does that saw come with the vacuum clamping system? That seems like a fantastic idea.

$15k for the vacuum clamping system. i think i'll buy a set of mac's clamps. i have them on my current slider, and love them.

[Mark e Kessler]

$15k for the vacuum clamping system. i think i'll buy a set of mac's clamps. i have them on my current slider, and love them.

wow, wasn’t expecting that - I thought maybe 5k could be worth it but yea you could buy like 4.5 sets of Mac’s clamps or build like 13 sets yourself like i did, well I only built 1 set…

[Erik Loza]

David, none of my business but do you want a Martin just because it's a Martin or is there some particular feature or features which attract you?

[David Zaret]

erik, i already own three martins. i love the quality of their machines. this particular upgrade is to get the radiocompens crosscut angle system.

[Erik Loza]

erik, i already own three martins. i love the quality of their machines. this particular upgrade is to get the radiocompens crosscut angle system.

Gotcha. I have a local customer (pro millshop) who has several Martins as well as some of our stuff. He's liquidating the business side of things and basically setting up a rich man's man cave shop. Going to buy all new Martin equipment for it. I told him "More power to you".

Erik

[Mark e Kessler]

Nice set up Mark.

Only have an entry level slider and work the old way off the rip fence. Ive made tables and stuff in the past over 40" that are ripped off the fence even some larger commercial stuff. What anyone needs depends on the work they do and how they work. Then in the shop there are always five other ways to do something.


Thanks Warren, nothing wrong so to speak working the old way off the rip fence although I try to work off the slide side only the “old way” works fine some of the times as well, only five other ways, i was thinking at least 10 different ways…lol

[David Zaret]

i don't have employees, i build everything for my business by myself. so, i rely on good equipment, and technology, to be my employees. it's a tradeoff, but, it works well for me. martin equipment has treated me very well, and so far i haven't regretted a single purchase decision.

[Joe Calhoon]

Dave, my Martin slider goes out to 50” or so but I cannot remember the last time I needed anything past 36 or 40”. I do use the fold down fence feature occasionally. Usually when doing some special operations on lineal parts.

I just went through the same decision with my vintage Martin T17. It also goes out past 50” but I had to have a support fabricated for a new overarm guard. Where it mounts limits what can be ripped to 40”. Could have made it bigger but with a lot of bulk and extra work.
In the end I decided I could break out the track saw on the rare occasions where more width is required.

[johnny means]

erik, i already own three martins. i love the quality of their machines. this particular upgrade is to get the radiocompens crosscut angle system.

Well, I think I've had enough. Wondering why someone would own three martinis, and what they have to do with woodworking.

[Kevin Jenness]

Well, I think I've had enough. Wondering why someone would own three martinis, and what they have to do with woodworking.

Probably for the same reason someone would have one martini- that warm fuzzy feeling of excitation and contentment, repeated three times.

"I don't want another drink, I just want that first one again." James McMurtry

[Erik Loza]

Devil's Advocate question: If you went with the narrow rip capacity, do you think you would ever reach moment where you might regret that decision? I understand it isn't necessary from a practical standpoint but would it be like bringing in 100A or power into a new shop rather than 200A? You might only need 100A now, but are you future-proofing yourself? For example, if you ever decide to sell this saw, most US shops wouldn't give any consideration to a saw that size with a narrow rip? Just food for thought.

Erik

[David Zaret]

well this is exactly the dilemma. resale has crossed my mind, but i'm buying it to use, not to sell in the future. it's a tough call.



Devil's Advocate question: If you went with the narrow rip capacity, do you think you would ever reach moment where you might regret that decision? I understand it isn't necessary from a practical standpoint but would it be like bringing in 100A or power into a new shop rather than 200A? You might only need 100A now, but are you future-proofing yourself? For example, if you ever decide to sell this saw, most US shops wouldn't give any consideration to a saw that size with a narrow rip? Just food for thought.

Erik

[Erik Loza]

well this is exactly the dilemma. resale has crossed my mind, but i'm buying it to use, not to sell in the future. it's a tough call.

Out of curiosity, what is their cost difference between narrow vs standard rip?

Erik

[David Zaret]

effectively insignificant relative to the price of the machine - a couple of grand, max.


Out of curiosity, what is their cost difference between narrow vs standard rip?

Erik

[Erik Loza]

effectively insignificant relative to the price of the machine - a couple of grand, max.

Well, LOL... In that case, I would find the room but it's your shop.

Erik

[Warren Lake]

If you are trying to save space. can you run one machine into another? my first shop was a postage stamp and stuff ran into the next machine which was support. My slider bar will go down the side of the radial, fence that far can rip 53" or more, in that case the saw fence is on the radial table. Takes a bit of mcgiver in any cases but since I started that way its still in my thought pattern.

[David Zaret]

just to close the loop on this... the "next step up" after the minimum of 33" of rip capacity is 44". perhaps that's the wiser choice. i still save a little floor space, but also lower the range of sizes i cannot crosscut. tricky decision, but maybe that's a safer compromise.

[Mark e Kessler]

just to close the loop on this... the "next step up" after the minimum of 33" of rip capacity is 44". perhaps that's the wiser choice. i still save a little floor space, but also lower the range of sizes i cannot crosscut. tricky decision, but maybe that's a safer compromise.

That is a nice compromise, will it be going against a wall? I only ask because I was going to go with a 33” but the only place it works for me is against a wall, having the wider rip actually made more since to me (in my case) because with the limited wall space in my small shop the 33” wouldn’t really allow other equipment/workbench a bandsaw perhaps against the wall…I could see regretting getting the 33” but if you don’t have the space you don’t have it…

[Jim Becker]

David, that's about what I effectively had with the S315WWS slider I had in my old shop, taking into account a stairway that interfere with material to the right. It didn't come into play that much so if your space is comfortable with the ~44", I agree it's a good compromise between the narrower and wider options.

[David Zaret]

thanks guys, i think that's what i'll do. the saw is not next to a wall, it's next to my jointer. one day i'll post a picture of the configuration of that part of the shop. the main issue is that i have a lumber lift through the ceiling to the second floor, and i have to extend the slider all the way forward in order to lower/raise the lift. even a few more inches of clearance with the new slider will be helpful.

thanks for everyone's feedback.

--- dz

[Joe Jensen]

When I ordered my slider in 2009 I was working in a 3 car garage and narrow rip was the only way I could fit the slider in. I assumed that one day when I moved to a bigger shop I'd add the longer fence rail and a wider table. I moved to the new much bigger space and I did not even think about getting costs for the parts to make it wider. I just rarely use the saw to rip. I can easily get the fence out of the way when using the slider to cut bigger parts and do this frequently. If ordering new and with the huge shop I'd get a wide rip but the 32" rip has not really been an issue. I do however use the parallel guides to rip whenever possible. I love the slider for ripping.

[David Zaret]

joe, this is helpful. the only situation i see having issues with is when i'm trying to crosscut a wide part to ~48" wide. the support post is ~33" forward of the center of the blade. so, if i want to crosscut a relatively narrow "rip," i'm fine, it'll land behind the post. if i want to crosscut a 40" wide rip, i can't do it, as it'll contact the support post. now, i think that practically speaking, it's a non-issue. most of my material is cut on the CNC, and the vast majority of rips are obviously far, far narrower than 33"... and, i own two track saws. so, yeah, my gut feel is to regain the floor space and live with the 33" rip capacity. but then, as stated, i think about resale... i know for sure i won't get a unit with the same 56" rip i have on my current slider, but i also don't want to regret going with 33". not a trivial decision on such an expensive saw.

all that said, your feedback is helpful, thanks.

--- dz

[Kevin Jenness]

I like using the fence as a bump stop so for me the longer fence rails are useful for more than ripping. Removing the fence on my saw requires sliding it off the rail end- as that is against the wall it's not happening.

[David Zaret]

I like using the fence as a bump stop so for me the longer fence rails are useful for more than ripping. Removing the fence on my saw requires sliding it off the rail end- as that is against the wall it's not happening.


oh me too. i use the fence as a bump stop for crosscutting. so for narrower parts (sub 30" or so), i'm fine, they will land behind the post. is that good enough? again, tough one. i am still leaning towards splitting the difference, and going with the 44".

[Joe Jensen]

I have a crosscut setup with a large old Dewalt RAS and a digital fence so I rarely crosscut on the slider. Only sheet goods really. Also because of the narrow rip I do not have the overarm guard setup, mine uses the riving knife to hold the guard.


joe, this is helpful. the only situation i see having issues with is when i'm trying to crosscut a wide part to ~48" wide. the support post is ~33" forward of the center of the blade. so, if i want to crosscut a relatively narrow "rip," i'm fine, it'll land behind the post. if i want to crosscut a 40" wide rip, i can't do it, as it'll contact the support post. now, i think that practically speaking, it's a non-issue. most of my material is cut on the CNC, and the vast majority of rips are obviously far, far narrower than 33"... and, i own two track saws. so, yeah, my gut feel is to regain the floor space and live with the 33" rip capacity. but then, as stated, i think about resale... i know for sure i won't get a unit with the same 56" rip i have on my current slider, but i also don't want to regret going with 33". not a trivial decision on such an expensive saw.

all that said, your feedback is helpful, thanks.

--- dz