Trenching head (heard in video on old post)

[Jody McFarland]

Hello, Thank you for looking.

In this old post of a video on making window sash, he mentions the "trenching head" on his RAS. I spent the weekend trying to figure out an alternative name for it or where I could find something like this with no luck.

I found the videos of a man Named Jack English (I believe same guy in the video here) showing details of his, but have not actually found a Wadkin head.

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?215963-cutting-a-hunched-mortise-and-tenon-with-classic-machinery-for-window-sash


If anyone could point me in the right direction, it would be greatly appreciated. Brand name, Alt names for this type of tooling.


Thank you,
Jody

[Paul F Franklin]

Looks like a molding head with straight cutters to me. But for that operation one could use a dado set as well.

[Jeff Bartley]

Look up Jackenglishmachines on Instagram, somewhere on his page he has pics of a trenching head for the RAS…..it’s a beastly thing! He’s a wealth of knowledge, I’d love to visit his shop, The Wadkin Temple!

[Jody McFarland]

Thank you Jeff. I have actually found his page and done nothing but watch every since I posted this. I'm humbled! I also contacted him to ask questions.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Jody, a dado cutter is what you want for that operation.

Regards, Rod

[Jody McFarland]

Thank you Paul and Rod for the suggestion of Dado. I have used a dado on a RAS before and found it handy in cabinet work. My issue is that I have not (as of yet) found a dado set that gives a truly flat bottom. I have had many different brands over the years. Luckily, I had the chance to use a Forrest at a shop I worked in many years ago and found it to have the same issue. Granted, they may have fixed that issue over those years, but I'm not going to spend $450-$500 to find out. I use a CMT in cabinet work. It doesn't give a flat bottom either, but the two outers are on the money. The chip breakers are a hair deeper, but the edges are right so glue ups are easier to keep square. The thing that is so intriguing about this "trenching head" is, it has a single wider flat blade with a scoring blade. So, every pass while cutting a long tenon is going to be at the same depth. Cutting a long tenon with a dado leaves you with a multiple depth ridges and I always feel like I need to chisel (or hand plane) the ridge down for a clean fit. IDK, may it's unnecessary to do so, but I love a perfectly smooth mortise and tenon. I think this trenching head could streamline my work a little better and reduce time in hand fitting. I potentially could be building a bunch of double hung windows in the near future and it will require good timing.

Thank you guys for being here and taking the time to help. It's awesome.

Jody

[William Hodge]

That trenching head has spurs and leaves a knife finish on the tenons. However, as Jack Forsberg says in the video, it's important to work from one side of the wood when making sash. Using a radial arm saw and flipping the piece works from two sides. I don't understand why Forsberg would use a radial arm saw. As you can see in the video, the shoulders don't line up.One is open when the tenon shoulder bottoms out.

I make the same cut on a sliding table on a table saw and a band saw. A fine tooth blade on a band saw will leave a perfectly good tenon cheek for sash. Flipping the wood to cut the shoulders on a tenon can leave varying depth cross cuts, but the are buried. On the band saw, cut one cheek, move the fence, and cut the other one, working from one face. I use a dial caliper to check the band saw for table squareness. Cut one face, measure top and bottom of the work piece. If the cut is the same, the table is square.

A band saw is good for double hung sash check rails with multiple tenons on each piece.

[Jeff Bartley]

That trenching head has spurs and leaves a knife finish on the tenons. However, as Jack Forsberg says in the video, it's important to work from one side of the wood when making sash. Using a radial arm saw and flipping the piece works from two sides. I don't understand why Forsberg would use a radial arm saw. As you can see in the video, the shoulders don't line up.One is open when the tenon shoulder bottoms out.

I make the same cut on a sliding table on a table saw and a band saw. A fine tooth blade on a band saw will leave a perfectly good tenon cheek for sash. Flipping the wood to cut the shoulders on a tenon can leave varying depth cross cuts, but the are buried. On the band saw, cut one cheek, move the fence, and cut the other one, working from one face. I use a dial caliper to check the band saw for table squareness. Cut one face, measure top and bottom of the work piece. If the cut is the same, the table is square.

A band saw is good for double hung sash check rails with multiple tenons on each piece.

I cut tenon cheeks on the bandsaw sometimes too. Rather than moving the fence though I like to use a spacer of appropriate width to whatever mortise will be used. Usually I can get it close enough to only need a short bit of hand fitting.

I’d still like to try that set up that Jack uses but I’ve never owned a RAS.

[Warren Lake]

shaper both sides at once.

if not you can do it all on a table saw or 10 other ways

[Brian Holcombe]

A shaper or tenoner would be a good way to go. Having neither I will cut the shoulders on the tablesaw, cut cheeks oversize on the bandsaw then cut the cheeks to size on the router with a surfacing cutter. It’s about the same amount of time as Jack is showing and better results in my opinion.

[Tom M King]

The Dewalt dado set cuts without the nickers, and produces a flat bottom, but I don't use it when making sash.

I do it in a bit different order. I cut the shoulders with a RAS, and the cheeks on table saw with tenoning jig. The heavy old 1172 gives repeatable results.

Picture of gang of sash is before clamping, and pegging. No glue needed.

[Rod Sheridan]

I have an FS Tools dado that provides a flat bottom.

All cutters are going to have scoring cutters and hogging cutters, otherwise chip out would be terrible…..Regards, Rod.

[Joe Calhoon]

Tenoning disks in a sliding table or tenoner are the way to go for a shop doing joinery for a living but there are a lot of ways to cut accurate tenons on the table saw or slider for low volume or hobby use. Using the radial arm would be my last choice. Cutter above the table and work can compound accurate setup. And dust and chips getting under the work can also be a problem. Using a table saw or slider where the workpiece can be firmly pressed against the top is better. Still takes some fiddling and test cuts to get accurate tenons.
on the rare occasion that I need tenons longer than what I can do with tenon heads I use the slider with a adjustable groover. For really clean cuts you can remove the knickers after the shoulder cuts. I usually don’t.
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Cutting vertical on the saw using 2 blades is another good way as a previous poster mentioned.
I made a jig for the slider for this.
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